Which GPS bike unit?

[henshaw11]

My only experience of such sensors is using a Bryton with a combined sensor and a HRM sensor. I note from the Etrex manual that the unit will only record HR and Cadence. It may be that the unit would not be able to match up with a speed sensor?

Sorry - yes, that's correct - as I understand it, it's that you have to you have to use the combined sensor, rather than the neater and less expensive cadence-only sensors available from other manufacturers.

[frankly frankie]

You can make combined maps using Mapsource (which comes when you buy any Garmin map, or can be installed free at a pinch) or, I'm told, Basecamp.

For example, if you had bought a map on DVD such as City Select, which gives you an installation of Mapsource.  Then you download some OSM mapping as a 'Mapsource installer' from such as http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/ - you'll end up with Mapsource on the desktop switchable between the 2 maps.  You can then select 'tiles' from both those maps (or as many as you have available - I have about 12!), and connect the GPS and 'transfer map' and hey presto you have a combined map on the mSD card, with options to switch maps on and off via the GPS menus.  (If it's a big map (slow to compile) it may be worth copying it back onto HD for future use, rather than recompiling.)

See for example here for ways to add a contours overlay (rather an old page now, but I think it all still holds good).

[andyoxon]

You can make combined maps using Mapsource (which comes when you buy any Garmin map, or can be installed free at a pinch) or, I'm told, Basecamp.

For example, if you had bought a map on DVD such as City Select, which gives you an installation of Mapsource.  Then you download some OSM mapping as a 'Mapsource installer' from such as http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/ - you'll end up with Mapsource on the desktop switchable between the 2 maps.  You can then select 'tiles' from both those maps (or as many as you have available - I have about 12!), and connect the GPS and 'transfer map' and hey presto you have a combined map on the mSD card, with options to switch maps on and off via the GPS menus.  (If it's a big map (slow to compile) it may be worth copying it back onto HD for future use, rather than recompiling.)

See for example here for ways to add a contours overlay (rather an old page now, but I think it all still holds good).

Thanks for this - sorry I had moved my query about map merging for older units, to a new thread... (but have deleted that now)

[MacB]

Can I join in asking for help please? I explored this a while ago and then decided to stick with paper maps and basic wired cycle computers for the time being. Things have changed(think building work, things stored carefully away and box with all bike computers and connectors went in trash in error ) and I'm back to this and still struggling to get my head round it. So I'm going to ignore maps for the time being as it seems to be a separate area to the units. If I go with a GPS I expect many future hours sussing out maps and options and routing. So:-

1. if I go GPS then I'd like to do away with any need for other cycle computers and just have multiple bike mounts
2. am I right in thinking I no longer need wheel sensors etc?(see told you I was thick on this stuff)
2. I have no interest in fancier personal data like cadence and heart rate
3. a lot of the riding it would only be used to record speeds and times which I keep separately so a running odometer isn't a requirement
4. I'm not averse to the idea of a two unit solution

How does this sound? - getting an Edge200, or better, to use as a general computer and putting a mount for it on each bike. That would cover my short term needs for replacing existing stuff. Price wise this seems not much different to needing to get new computers and or multiple new bike mounts. Then I get something much fancier for more adventurous riding and I'm thinking Etrex/Dakota/Oregon/Montana here. Get one bike mount for that and transfer between bikes as the need arises, I'd like this unit to perform quite well offroad and walking as well as on bike.

The final part of my devilish plan will be to enlist some training help on mapping with the enticement of a ride including food and drink.

[Richard Fairhurst]

If you don't want cadence/heart rate etc., just "how fast am I going", "where have I gone" and "where am I going", then just the eTrex/whathaveyou will do you fine - no need for a bike-focused Edge.

[MacB]

If you don't want cadence/heart rate etc., just "how fast am I going", "where have I gone" and "where am I going", then just the eTrex/whathaveyou will do you fine - no need for a bike-focused Edge.

Did cross my mind but I'm really unsure on where I'm going in that direction, apologies for the pun. I can get the Edge200 with all the bike mounts I need for about £100. Whereas I'm not so sure about using a bigger, officially handheld unit, for my everyday stuff plus I haven't decided which one yet. Being me I may even never reach a final decision on the full unit but I do need a computer now....if that makes sense.

[Biggsy]

2. am I right in thinking I no longer need wheel sensors etc?

Yes, if you are happy for the distance to be measured by GPS.  GPS won't measure every wobble and micro-turn you make like a normal cycle computer would.  If you don't mind that, then just about any GPS unit will do what you say you want.

Next step: decide on size, weight, bracket type, price, battery life.

I don't know if still available new, but you might like a Garmin Edge 605.  It's the same as the 705 but without wheel and cadence inputs and electronic (non GPS) compass.  Otherwise look at the eTrex range and other makes and models.

[MacB]

ah, for the full deal I really fancy one of the non cycling handhelds, I think I should have phrased my original post better. I was more thinking whether a 200 would work as a multi bike basic computer and it seems it would, extra brackets are cheap as well. I know it works out a little pricier but it's worth it to me to do away with wires and sensors. I don't need super accurate training info I just like a rough comparative analysis and the info it displays when riding is all I ever looked at on my previous computers. I did consider the 810 but it's too much of a cycle computer for my needs and not enough of a GPS, if that makes sense. Which is why I got to my 2 unit solution.

[MacB]

Well the itchy finger was scratched and I have a 200 winging its way to me along with extra mounts, so that sorts out a new bike computer for me.

I will immerse myself in jargon and reviews around the handheld offerings before I seek further help on that choice. I think I'm just too clueless to make decent use of the info offered as yet.

[Ningishzidda]

I decided all I needed was "Which way should I go?" and "When will I get there?", so I dumped Garmin.

[Jaded]

Ah, a dump.

[Beardy]

I tried to read this whole thread I really did. 

Ok, so what _I_ want is a head unit with a touch screen about the size of an iPhone 5 that will take inputs from a Hrm, cadence sensor and a wheel sensor (I'd like power, but the rholoff hub and planned Speed Drive exclude it) with GPS and OS mapping (or at least OS standard of mapping). I want to be able to turn off levels of detail and increase font size to allow for the screen real estate and my ageing eye sight. I want routing controls to be able to turn off specific road types (eg motorways, dual cartridge ways ferries ect) I'd like to be able to select areas to avoid, specific roads to avoid, and the option to choose transport modes/mixed transport modes. Ideally I should be able to plan a route on my mac before is set off, alter the route while out on the head unit or my iPad. It should be able to record my heart rate, speed and cadence along with my route, altitude and calculated gear. It should be switchable between navigation modes such as turn by turn, overview, direction, waypoints so I can use it to,walk cycle motorcycle or car. It should be weather proof. And finally I should be able to charge it from  240/110 ac supply, a 12v supply, a SON hub or a solar panel.  Oh and of course I should be able to get updates to the map data without a) losing any of my route data or journey data and b) breaking the bank.

Have I missed anything?

Ok, so although i know that the above IS technologically possible, I also know that is unlikely just at the moment, mainly from a cost and demand perspective. I've had the dubious pleasure working with routing software long before Garmin or Google came on the scene so I understand the technological and commercial challenges. I've also been using paper maps longer than I care to remember and GPS units in various forms long enough to understand the practical benefits.

At the moment the available products are all compromises, and to get to any sort of comprehensive solution requires geekery above and beyond the consumer level that we can now expect in my areas. I'd rate the current situation to be in the early pentium era of PCs. COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) solutions will do 80% of what 80% of most consumers think they want out of the box, but if it breaks or if you want the other 20% you are in serious geek territory. And the more the 80% use the commercial offerings the more they realise they are only getting 40 % of what they want. (though they probably NEED less in any case )

The above waffle amply demonstrates my level of boredom this evening, please feel free to ignore me

PS if anyone knows of a device that meets my needs PLEASE let me know 

[fuaran]

For something with a big touch screen, the best options probably are the Garmin Oregon or Montana.
I think they will do quite a lot of the stuff you want. eg they will work with a HRM, and a sensor for cadence (though probably not a wheel sensor for speed).
It seems the Montana does have a lot of options for routing, eg setting avoidances. Routing can also depend on what maps you are using, eg if you use OSM maps designed for cycling, they should avoid any motorways.
The Montana does have the option of a Lithium-ion battery pack (instead of AAs) which can be charged from USB, so connect that to a dynamo or solar panel etc.
The Oregon 600 or 650 do have Bluetooth, which would let you connect to an Ipad or Iphone for planning routes.

Or there's the rumoured Garmin Monterra, which may be available sometime soon. Apparently similar to the Montana, but running Android. So hopefully that would let you tweak the software with whatever geekery you want...

[PloddinPedro]

Beardy’s shopping list is pretty comprehensive. But if I can be slightly mischievous, I’d add that top of my list, before any of the techy stuff, is that (a) I need to be able to see the screen in all conditions; (b) I need to be able to operate it whilst wearing heavy winter gloves; and (c) I need it to be reliable - no random freezing or mysterious powering down.

For me, touchscreens are out, if only because I need to be able to wipe off the rain without sending the unit into paroxysms of unintended action. And the buttons need to be engineered so they are the correct “weight” and I can feel what’s going on.

I know this can’t really be true but I can’t avoid the feeling that manufacturers simply do not test their products in the real world. If they did, they’d surely get these basics right, without which none of the fancy stuff is any use at all.

Or perhaps it’s just me? 

[Aushiker]

For something with a big touch screen, the best options probably are the Garmin Oregon or Montana.
I think they will do quite a lot of the stuff you want. eg they will work with a HRM, and a sensor for cadence (though probably not a wheel sensor for speed).

I have a Garmin Oregon 600 on order so yet to confirm this but they are ANT+ compatible and the "good" old GSC-10 is marketed as an accessory for the Oregon so it should in theory use the sensor for speed as well as cadence unless there is a firmware "switch" which disables the speed signal.  The manual mind you is vague on this aspect.

Andrew

[Hillbilly]

Not sure if it has been asked, but I am thinking of buying a GPS logger to back up my main unit (I'm planning on some long rides, and don't want to risk relying on a single unit/etrex30).

No bells/whistles etc, just something compact/light that records a track of location and altitude, and can be downloaded to Windows computer.  With sufficient memory for rides that are at least 600km/40hours in duration, but ideally 2000km/200 hours in duration - I'm guessing 1GB would suffice.

Any suggestions?  I've done some research but don't know any of the manufacturers (eg Hilux) or how suited the units are to cycling as opposed to fleet management.

[Ningishzidda]

Not sure if it has been asked, but I am thinking of buying a GPS logger to back up my main unit (I'm planning on some long rides, and don't want to risk relying on a single unit/etrex30).

No bells/whistles etc, just something compact/light that records a track of location and altitude, and can be downloaded to Windows computer.  With sufficient memory for rides that are at least 600km/40hours in duration, but ideally 2000km/200 hours in duration - I'm guessing 1GB would suffice.

Any suggestions?  I've done some research but don't know any of the manufacturers (eg Hilux) or how suited the units are to cycling as opposed to fleet management.

When the Midlands Mesh was still alive, I planned a Stratford upon Avon, Lands End, Berwick on Tweed and back to Stratford trip. 2000 km.
I had an eTrex Legend at the time. Doing the trip without collecting paper proofs NEVER crossed my mind. On a journey of that distance, real life ATM and shop reciepts had to be the primary PoPs. If the Garmin's GPX recording was the one-and-only, something was bound to go wrong.

[Hillbilly]

Thanks.  I would rely on paper based evidence.  But as this relates to bagging the first Grimpeur du Sud SR (i.e. a full SR series in the South East with each ride having AAA points) and paper based DIYs don't facilitate AAA, it doesn't help in this case.  Being fussy, I've got an old eTrex legend but it has several limitations that mean I'd prefer a more basic logger.

[Dibdib]

This'll only really work if you're already running a dynohub, but if you have the ability to charge it via usb while on the move would a cheap android smartphone fit the bill?

[Hillbilly]

This'll only really work if you're already running a dynohub, but if you have the ability to charge it via usb while on the move would a cheap android smartphone fit the bill?

Possibly.  I've got an expensive android smartphone.  Perhaps a back up back up plan(!)

[phil d]

Not sure if it has been asked, but I am thinking of buying a GPS logger to back up my main unit (I'm planning on some long rides, and don't want to risk relying on a single unit/etrex30).

No bells/whistles etc, just something compact/light that records a track of location and altitude, and can be downloaded to Windows computer.  With sufficient memory for rides that are at least 600km/40hours in duration, but ideally 2000km/200 hours in duration - I'm guessing 1GB would suffice.

Any suggestions?  I've done some research but don't know any of the manufacturers (eg Hilux) or how suited the units are to cycling as opposed to fleet management.

I bought a Hilux logger for this sort of purpose (a backup on GPS perms) but it fell short of my needs.  Specifically, I could not get it to record altitude, which the GPS DIY orgs need.  It might have been my fault - the instructions were very poor, and I'm not the techy-est guy around.  In the end I gave it away.  I suspect the recipient has also ditched it.  There must be other, better, devices like it, but the Hilux was quite cheap.  Probably a connection there!

[L CC]

The elevation track from my i-got-u mentioned in the other thread was complete fiction. Didn't matter to me...
/flatlander

[sjb]

I'd like to add my experiences of Bryton and their Rider 50 sat nav unit.

 I purchased the unit about 3 years ago and it has performed perfectly,  I've been very impressed with the unit. I ride long distance Audax events and have just completed the 875 mile London Edinburgh London and used the Rider 50 to navigate throughout the whole event by using the GPX files from the organisers website.

 During the event the sat nav got very wet during a downpour and I had lost the USB port cover which meant that the when I returned home I was unable to download the files to my PC. I contacted Bryton and they said to send the unit to Taiwan, which I did. They replaced the USB port on the unit and retrieved the files from the unit and emailed them to me. They also the replaced the unit's case. I received the unit back and it still had the files on it anyway and now works flawlessly again.

Even though the unit's warranty period had expired they did not charge me for the repair, even though technically it was my fault for allowing the ingress of water into the unit.

This company's customer care is absolutely outstanding and the guy at Bryton (Steven Hsu) and his tech team who fixed the unit and retrieved the log files are absolute stars.

I would highly recommend this company and its product because of the customer service and the brilliant features of the fantastic device and it's much cheaper than the equivalent Garmin device. Need I say more?

LEL rider J44

[Horizon]

Moving on from the 50, the Bryton Rider 60 looks to be cracking bit of kit, but, for reasons unknown, Bryton don't seem to be shipping it. Announced in May, there is still no sign and Bryton themselves won't be drawn on the delay. With bluetooth and optional OS maps, it looks to be a lot better than the just announced Garmin Edge Touring

[Poly Hive]

If I may make a small suggestion. When we bought our now elderly Garmin Oregon 300 for Geocaching it was useless as far as mapping went. After some hunting around we discovered http://talkytoaster.info/ and his map came on a card at a very reasonable price and the detail is excellent.

This info may or may not assist but is offered in the hope it might be useful to you.

PH