Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => Further and Faster => Topic started by: jamesld8 on 27 February, 2016, 02:05:13 pm

Title: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jamesld8 on 27 February, 2016, 02:05:13 pm
By my reckoning my average riding speed has dropped by at least 10% in last two decades and my mid thirties, maybe this is quite a normal and acceptable decrease. My 2014 / 2015 average speed riding was 21.8 kph over 30 000 km total

But my Q is, now @ 56,  is there any reasonable training that I could use to slightly up my average speed (objective get more sleep time on longer rides) , or should I just be gracefully settling for being overall very fit (in comparison to mass population) and be happy to be so.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 27 February, 2016, 02:15:34 pm
Hi
I am 57 and trying to get faster!  This can be patronising but has some sound stuff.  http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1937715264?keywords=fast%20after%2050&qid=1447417089&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1937715264?keywords=fast%20after%2050&qid=1447417089&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1)
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Jurek on 27 February, 2016, 02:26:39 pm
I started riding fixed in 2012, at the age of 54.
No special training programme or anything, just a 30 mile daily commute.
That my fitness / speed have improved considerably, I'm sure is no coincidence.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: giropaul on 27 February, 2016, 02:49:09 pm
It all depends where you are starting from. If you were training and fit at, say, 30, then it's very unlikely to be able to be as fast as you get older. However, many riders are now only starting in middle age, so they will have potential to improve rapidly.
I've looked into the effect of aging on power, and there is plenty of research that shows that a typical cyclist will lose about 3 watts/ year from their peak ( which may be anywhere from mid 20s to late 30s typically).
There is evidence that as a rider gets older, high intensity intervals are the most likely way to improve speed towards the maximum potential for the individual
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jamesld8 on 27 February, 2016, 03:01:47 pm
It all depends where you are starting from. If you were training and fit at, say, 30, then it's very unlikely to be able to be as fast as you get older. However, many riders are now only starting in middle age, so they will have potential to improve rapidly.
I've looked into the effect of aging on power, and there is plenty of research that shows that a typical cyclist will lose about 3 watts/ year from their peak ( which may be anywhere from mid 20s to late 30s typically).
There is evidence that as a rider gets older, high intensity intervals are the most likely way to improve speed towards the maximum potential for the individual

Thanks useful thoughts; I`ve been cycling since 1970 !! and probable peak was at age 30 when did National 400 in less than 20 hours; similar 400 rides now take me around 23 to 25 hours. have never really done intensity / interval training as dislike concept of it (ie loads pain :(  ).

the 3 w loss a year I can relate to, when in 20s / 30s it was rare I was beaten up a hill by usual club riders, now a combination of 20 years + on and an extra 10kg has considerably slowed my hill climbing although I can still plug away at it steadily
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: offcumden on 27 February, 2016, 04:49:26 pm
As said above, Joe Friel's book (see link) has lots of interesting and useful stuff. 

You quote your average speed, but this is not necessarily helpful.  Much depends on the type of riding (hilly, urban commuting, on/off road?) and whether this is done at a constant effort level, or includes intermittent hard efforts. No need for formal 'interval training': occasional 'purple patches', or just charging up hills can be effective in boosting power/speed. Some people go as far as riding a weekly club '10' to raise their game, but you might prefer to retain your dignity  ;)
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jamesld8 on 27 February, 2016, 05:40:44 pm
average speed was on road, not commuting and in hilly terrain generally , including Alps and Pyrenees weeks; total ascent in those two years was near 350 000 m, so not flat terrain at all ! Riding was steady effort with no racing etc, or indeed club runs or sportives
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 27 February, 2016, 08:20:15 pm
Joe Friel would class you as a classic athlete who has swapped intensity for steady state and will therefore see a 3w per year fall in power.  The only way to reverse that and maintain the speed seems to be intensive strength work and power work.

There are increasing numbers of men in the USA who are using testosterone patches as they head into the 60s and 70s to help maintain that muscle power.  Whether it will catch on here is difficult to tell.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: giropaul on 27 February, 2016, 08:32:50 pm
Joe Friel would class you as a classic athlete who has swapped intensity for steady state and will therefore see a 3w per year fall in power.  The only way to reverse that and maintain the speed seems to be intensive strength work and power work.

There are increasing numbers of men in the USA who are using testosterone patches as they head into the 60s and 70s to help maintain that muscle power.  Whether it will catch on here is difficult to tell.
Only one small problem ( as well as supply) positive dope tests ( one at least in US I believe)
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: simonp on 01 March, 2016, 12:19:22 am
Not quite as old but have been doing structured training and some high intensity work and I've seen an impeovement. I don't mind the pain. Pain is temporary.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Ningishzidda on 01 March, 2016, 06:36:32 am
There is only one way. Try harder little by little. ( progressive resistance )
If your 10 mile time is 28mins, try for 27 ½. When it gets there, try for 27.

“No one got good by takin it easy.”  Tommy Godwin, Olympic cyclist.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jamesld8 on 01 March, 2016, 07:22:55 am
So maybe if on my regular potter of 50-60 km around lanes I fitted in some 30 - 60 sec high intensity, high cadence (?) bursts eg sprint up slight hills, as fast as possible on flat that may help ? ,
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: offcumden on 01 March, 2016, 08:57:21 am
So maybe if on my regular potter of 50-60 km around lanes I fitted in some 30 - 60 sec high intensity, high cadence (?) bursts eg sprint up slight hills, as fast as possible on flat that may help ? ,

Done, say, a couple of times a week for several weeks, that should begin to show results. 

Have a look at this - http://joefriel.typepad.com/blog/search.html - and search for 'aging'.

Have fun.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: giropaul on 01 March, 2016, 09:09:23 am
That would almost certainly help you get faster than you are now. Doing  shorter, 10km as an example, at a target speed - faster than your usual average, could also help.
Personally, I prefer to do short, hard intervals on the Wattbike, in typically 1 hr sessions, and then be able to ride tempo and enjoy myself more, when on the road.
Does this make me faster? Well, not as fast as I was 10 years ago, but almost certainly faster than I would be if I was just riding steadily all the time.
Racing is also likely to make you faster - the racing itself is good high effort stuff, and the regime of training. Depending on where you live, and if you have the patience to get the through the long accreditation processes ( I don't!) Vets SQT sessions on the track will also help with speed. However, if you look at the times of over 50s, over 60s etc on the track, which is a comparable environment, you can see how age affects speed.
In short, we can go faster in our 50s (than we would be without specific training), but it does mean changing how you ride, maybe riding less but harder. For some people I can understand how this would turn an enjoyable recreation into a wearing regime ( at least, that's how I feel on a nice day when I would enjoy a relaxed ride in the countryside, but instead do specific hard efforts in a gym on the Wattbike)
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jamesld8 on 01 March, 2016, 09:37:06 am
So maybe if on my regular potter of 50-60 km around lanes I fitted in some 30 - 60 sec high intensity, high cadence (?) bursts eg sprint up slight hills, as fast as possible on flat that may help ? ,

Done, say, a couple of times a week for several weeks, that should begin to show results. 

Have a look at this - http://joefriel.typepad.com/blog/search.html - and search for 'aging'.

Have fun.

very useful and much to read there, thanks  :thumbsup: Think I`ll try a few quicker bursts riding at times , but as part of my normal riding to keep it still fun and enjoyable. And possibly reduce overall amount have more days off might help
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Highlander on 01 March, 2016, 12:11:13 pm
I think there are things you could do to mitigate the natural loss of power that comes with age, but you would have to cut the miles down drastically.  I've been on training camps with super fit guys in their 50's and 60's and I've raced against veterans who were beating the times they recorded in their youth but they all said the same thing - you can still train hard, but you have to rest more.

In other words, fewer miles.  Doing the sort of riding you do I don't think there's anything you can do but accept a gradual slowing down.

The loss of power manifests itself mostly in hill climbing.  Many of us older folk will recognise that feeling of not being able to zonk up the hills any more, but I think you can mitigate this again with specific training, but it will hurt.  I'm 60 and feel as though I'm just hanging on but only by virtue of a lot of short intensity riding.  I often wonder at what point you simply have to accept the effects of age - the great Brain Robinson took to an electric bike at 83 I think, and he was a top international rider - what about the rest of us?   



Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Ningishzidda on 01 March, 2016, 12:24:22 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertrophy-specific_Training

Power only comes from heavy pedal strokes, more often.

Mix 'power-work' with spinning on a hilly road route, and you'll get more powerful.

A big mistake 'more mature' cyclists make is eating at the same rate as they did when they were young. A closer regulation of nutrition intake is required alongside a physical training programme.

Go for it...  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jamesld8 on 01 March, 2016, 01:16:56 pm
The loss of power manifests itself mostly in hill climbing

very much what I`m noticing, my local 150m ascent / 2 km hill I could do in 9 min in 2010 ; I can barely get under 10 minutes for it now--often I`m taking near 11 minutes for it.

As for `fewer miles` last few months due to redundancy enforced  `temporary retirement` I have been using cycling to get out of the house to avoid stagnating at home and that situation seems to be continuing
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 01 March, 2016, 03:14:35 pm
One of the things that I took out of Joe Friel's book is the importance of rest.  However, that's proper rest not just rest from physical activities.  I've observed a fairly good correlation between my professional workload and my speed/performance on the bike.  When I'm knackered from work pressures I don't train as well and my speed goes down.  (I was 2 hours over par on the Severn Across last year and back on par for the Kernow & SW simply for that reason - the performance difference is also clear on shorter rides - I'm riding worse now than a month ago...

The amount you do on other things may be something you have control over, in which case doing less other stuff gives you more time to rest so that when you train you can train harder.  If you've just put in a 60 hour week you probably won't be able to train very hard.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Highlander on 01 March, 2016, 05:20:39 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertrophy-specific_Training

A big mistake 'more mature' cyclists make is eating at the same rate as they did when they were young. A closer regulation of nutrition intake is required alongside a physical training programme.

Go for it...  :thumbsup:

One of the things that I took out of Joe Friel's book is the importance of rest.  However, that's proper rest not just rest from physical activities.  I've observed a fairly good correlation between my professional workload and my speed/performance on the bike.  When I'm knackered from work pressures I don't train as well and my speed goes down.  (I was 2 hours over par on the Severn Across last year and back on par for the Kernow & SW simply for that reason - the performance difference is also clear on shorter rides - I'm riding worse now than a month ago...

The amount you do on other things may be something you have control over, in which case doing less other stuff gives you more time to rest so that when you train you can train harder.  If you've just put in a 60 hour week you probably won't be able to train very hard.

Wise words there I'd say. 

People often accuse me of being "naturally thin" which I resent as there's nothing "natural" about it, but there is a lot of determination and self restraint.  As Ning says the older you get the more you have to think carefully about what, and how much, you eat.  And of course cyclists often justify eating a lot by doing big miles but again the effect of this isn't the same once you pass 40, I've found.

I also agree with the totality of activity having an effect the older you get.  Years ago I tried commuting by bike  - 35 miles each way - which theoretically given my state of fitness at the time should have been easy, but the ride home was often a killer.  We underestimate the effect of work related pressure/stress.

   
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: zigzag on 01 March, 2016, 06:04:25 pm
some good advise here. my dad started cycling at 61 (he's 63 this year), asks me gazillion questions, reads Joe Friel, does some structured training and plans on getting a power meter too.. the increase in fitness was very obvious in the first year, but now leveled off. i think there's a room for growth for another 5-7 years and then to maintain fitness for another 5-10 years, if motivation is there*.

it seems that people are keen to write themselves off too soon, 70 is the new 20 :thumbsup:

*he has done his first (hilly) 300 ride few days ago and there are plans for bigger rides
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: mattc on 01 March, 2016, 06:38:11 pm
I've read that a few (not very large) studies - plus anecdotal evidence from coaches of "mature" athletes - suggest that most folks who take things seriously see improvement for about 10 years (with Yr1 being the biggest, of course). Then they plateau and/or start declining.

If you start at 16, the improvements may continue for longer, but for us older folk the effects of aging at some point start to defeat the effects of all the training, nutrition yada yada ...

The 10 Year Effect seems to work equally for 40yos and 60yos.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Ross K on 01 March, 2016, 08:30:33 pm
I returned to cycling at 47 after 25 years off with a knee problem which I now realise was related to old style zero-float pedal/clip/cleat systems.

I came back into it at 47 fit from other sports.  Through progressive training I am now fitter and faster on the bike, with fairly limited mileage (under 4,000 miles a year).

My goal was to get fitter and faster so, so far so good.  I'm about to turn 52 which will coincide with my second season of TT-ing.

On a rolling (around 50 feet of height gain per mile) 20 mile route I'm averaging 17mph on a steady training ride, 18-19mph on a hard ride and 20mph+ on an eyeballs-out ride.  In the local 10 (not all that flat) I'm doing consistently over 23mph average.  All of these averages are significantly faster than I was doing 5 years ago.

I now expect to do a hilly 100 mile sportive at over 16mph (except the Fred!!).

It's a real buzz to be in my 50s and still getting stronger and faster.

Due to family/work life I'm limited to lots of shorter rides (occasional long ones) so I tend to train at high intensity most of the time (what I see is referred to as "sweet spot" training these days).   I live in hilly country so almost all routes lend themselves to be effectively interval sessions if one makes big efforts on the many hills.   I do very little turbo work but am cramming in more consciously, this winter/spring, proper intervals during training rides to increase my power output and am slowly shedding one or two more pounds.  The stopwatch will tell me if I've been successful! 
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: JohnR on 02 March, 2016, 07:58:39 am
As a 61 year old who re-started cycling at age 58 with a 20 odd year prior period of absolutely no exercise whatsoever, I can say that you can re-gain some of your fitness and strength as you age, but it ain’t easy.

My first re-bike ride at 58 was a tentative 3 miler round my house which comprised of a stretch of mildly undulating generally downhill then a length of flat road followed by a long steady climb of about 3% and finally a shorter downhill home. I used every one of the 21 gears I had on that ride and I was slooow. Got back home and felt like I was going to die, Sweating profusely, legs unable to walk properly and gasping for air with my heart racing which felt like it was in my throat not my chest. For the rest of the day I was knackered, unable to do anything but sleep. Looking at those pictures up thread of leg muscles, mine probably would have looked like the 74 year olds’ with no exercise, little muscle fibre with broken mitochondria and too much fat around it.

I followed this up each Sunday with a slightly further ride until I could ride a decent distant without too much effort. I then decided I needed more exercise so I joined a gym and used the bike there first twice a week but found this was too much as I wasn’t recovering between bouts so I simply did Wednesday gym and Sunday bike. This seemed to help. I then got an old book of heart rate training for cyclists and did those exercises religiously keeping my heart rate around 70% MHR thinking I was doing myself good after all base training was supposed to be long and slow right? This Christmas saw me off the bike and exercise for about 2 weeks total due to my arthritic hip giving way. When I got back to the gym my right leg was like a pencil compared to my other leg and had no strength in it at all, in fact I had to haul myself up the stairs with the banister for a couple of weeks in place of that leg not being able to raise my body weight. What ever happened to my fitness and strength I’d built up the last 2 years? Gone.

Since Christmas I started training with power as my base and have since come on in leaps and bounds. My leg muscles now feel more like they did 30 years ago, alright not quite so good but much better than previous and my cycling is getting much quicker and more enjoyable. I’ve found that high intensity training is the way forward for old gits, I do 2 sessions per week of an hour each Tuesday and Thursday 20 mins warm up (not enough I know) followed by 3 x 10 minute sessions maintaining a power which elevates my heart rate to my anaerobic threshold with 3 minutes in between at a low power recovery. This regime has transformed my abilities way beyond the previous long slow effort I had been doing. I also recover much quicker than ever.

I suppose my take home message is that there is light at the end of the tunnel for us old gimmers but it’s not an easy road to take, but rewarding. I totally agree with what Joe Friel says in his book again up thread as my experimentation on myself is living (well almost) proof.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Pedal Castro on 02 March, 2016, 06:12:32 pm
I am now 55 and started riding again about three years ago after a 22 year layoff. When I started again I told Mrs PC I wouldn't race again but stick with my first love of touring. It wasn't long after my first tour (to Cuba) that I stumbled into audax, then last year I did a handful of TTs. On no speed training, only miles, I didn't embarrass myself but I wasn't as fast as I was in 1990.

I have now started training properly and my targets are PBs at all TT distances and the club 12h record. I am assuming that aging can be overcome by training, because I didn't take it that seriously when I was younger :-)

On the subject of Joe Friels book, it is interesting that he says HIIT is the way to go for older athletes, but of course that was/is true for all ages I would suggest.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 02 March, 2016, 06:34:38 pm
53.

Cycled everywhere in my teens and 20s.  Restarted again in my 30s a bit but got the long distance bug in my 40s.

I broke all my PBs last year as a result of planned weight loss and qualifying for PBP.  I'll struggle to ever feel that good on a bike again I think, everything was so easy.
So I can say that I improved, from a fairly fit Audaxer and PBP2011 veteran, from 49 to 53 years old.

After a bit of a lay off after PBP and feeling (and being) distinctly heavy on the bike I decided last month to set myself a new goal in Watts per Kilogram (at FTP).

My local bike shop runs Wattbike "Spin" sessions so, for the first time, I know my power output.  I know my weight and I have a good estimate of my Functional Threshold power (FTP - The maximum power you can deliver, consistently, for an hour... and subsequently falling in a heap on the floor).

My goal is 3Watts/Kg which equates to an average local club rider I think.  I'm currently at around 2.4-2.5. (Bradley Wiggins is most likely >6).

The beauty of this is that I have 2 ways to get there, losing weight and/or gaining Power. (I have more weight to lose than power to gain me thinks).

I'm loving training with power though, it doesn't lie and you can't hide from it.   I think it's the best way to get and/or maintain speed as you go through your 50s and 60s. Basically structured and accurate HIIT sessions, between your regular rides and, importantly (because I can really feel the impact of this morning) RECOVERY.

It's too soon to know how effective it is but I certainly feel like the sessions hit me "deep down".  The hour this morning has left me feeling like I rode a 200k Audax.

Edit. If nothing else the Wattbike power meters have put the GC Contenders ability into perspective.

It's estimated that, when Sir Brad won the World TT Title a couple of years ago, he put out around 470watts for about 55 minutes.  That meant very little to me until I went on the Wattbikes.  Now I know what it means*

*It means he's a legend and possibly not human.

It's not that I can't develop 470 Watts it's just that I'm a bit short of doing it for 55 minutes*

* By about 54 minutes and some seconds.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Pedal Castro on 02 March, 2016, 07:21:42 pm
Quote from: LEE link=topic=96188.msg1998355#msg1998355 da

I'm loving training with power though, it doesn't lie and you can't hide from it.

Agreed, it's a game changer for me, I had 3 different indoor trainers in the old days, and I got so bored on them it never worked for me. Now with virtual power and TrainerRoad software it keeps me entertained and I work damn hard, averaged over 5 hours of intervals a week since breaking my hand at the beginning of the year.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Ningishzidda on 03 March, 2016, 07:03:05 am
55.

Started riding a two-wheel bicycle at five and have never been without this mode of transport.
Got first sports bike at 12.
Got first race bike at 14.
Got skateboard at 15. Asked to join a Pro skateboard team.
Got given a BMX by skate team at 17. Turned Pro BMX. Won nothing.
Returned to road cycling at 19 to commute to 'regular day job'.
Commute cycled for next 15 years.
Joined AUK at 34.
Got Rando 1000 in 2007.
Started Time trialing at 51.
Won club TT championship is 2013 and 2014.
Rode last 200 in 2015.
Tapering down to 100 km events to get Brevet 3000 patch.
Still commute cycling 20 miles per day.

Riding first Pop 50 this year. Aiming for 17 kmh average on a 1966 Moulton Mini ( 50th anniversary ). 49" singlespeed. ;)

Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Highlander on 03 March, 2016, 09:02:18 am

Riding first Pop 50 this year. Aiming for 17 kmh average on a 1966 Moulton Mini ( 50th anniversary ). 49" singlespeed. ;)


Ooooo.... I used to ride to (junior) school with a mate who had one of those and we would occasionally swap, now I'm not a great fan of Moultons but that thing seemed to go like the wind compared to my crappy Raleigh.  I had gears as well.   14" wheels IIRC - getting tyres must be a problem these days?

Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: MikeFromLFE on 03 March, 2016, 09:06:25 am
I'm 61 - I've never been fast, and I've never been able to fly up hills. I've always been a plodder, so when I discovered Audax (in the early 80s I think) it was rightup my street. I'd 'come back' to cycling after just using a bike to do very short errands and the like, but I did a 100k ride with no preparation, and I don't recall feeling at all bad. I stopped doing audax rides around 2002 when work got in the way.
About 8 years ago I lost all motivation (for everything, not just cycling) culminating in severe depression which allowed me (!) to take early retirement about 5 years ago. I used short fast rides to boost my mood, and looking back some of my times were - for me - astonishing.

This year I've set my goal of doing some audax rides probably 150km max. I've been increasing my distances - and feel like sh!t at the end of the ride and for days afterwards, even though I've not yet broken the magic 100k barrier. This is what age does to me!
I know that this is a training / conditioning thing, and I will work through it, but it goes to show that the body ain't what it used to be.

I've also been doing some strength and WattBike sessions at the gym when the weather has been rubbish. The info by Lee is very interesting and might well help me be a bit more focussed on how I use the WattBike.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: giropaul on 03 March, 2016, 09:25:23 am
I am surprised at how often it seems that gyms have Wattbikes, but no qualified Wattbike instructors. However, good, structured workouts are on the Wattbike website, free to use. There are programmes for most objectives.
At my local leisure centre there are two Wattbike higher qualified instructors, and a number of other Wattbike qualified instructors. Each "term" of 11 or 12 weeks has different programmes each week, working on different aspects. Therefore the sessions are never boring, or samey. Each "term starts with a review/ test of maximum minute power, to set training zones for the individual.
Newer cyclists gain power significantly. Obviously, as people get nearer their potential genetically and for age, increases get slower, but maintaining power is still vital.
Working on a Wattbike will usually be beneficial, working to a programme will always give greater benefits.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Ningishzidda on 03 March, 2016, 10:16:00 am

Riding first Pop 50 this year. Aiming for 17 kmh average on a 1966 Moulton Mini ( 50th anniversary ). 49" singlespeed. ;)


Ooooo.... I used to ride to (junior) school with a mate who had one of those and we would occasionally swap, now I'm not a great fan of Moultons but that thing seemed to go like the wind compared to my crappy Raleigh.  I had gears as well.   14" wheels IIRC - getting tyres must be a problem these days?

Nope. SJS have Raleigh Record 14 x 1 3/8", £6.99

Dunlop Junior is a different matter, but the Raleigh Record have the same tread pattern. I have whitewall.  ;D

Its a single speed with a Torpedo rear brake. 5 1/2" cranks with 52T ring. 15 sprocket. Does 11 mph at 75 rpm. Can spin it up nice with short-throw cranks to 14 mph at 96ish rpm.

Shall I wear my school blazer and cap?
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 03 March, 2016, 11:00:25 am
I am surprised at how often it seems that gyms have Wattbikes, but no qualified Wattbike instructors.

I'd agree that a Wattbike without a qualified instructor (or a well-informed user) is basically a Spin Bike. There are Wattbike Apps and information out there in the absence of an instructor.

https://wattbike.com/uk/train (https://wattbike.com/uk/train)

Our sessions at the bike shop are structured.  One session will focus on low-cadence, high-power, long duration and another may focus on high-cadence, short, maximal efforts (Sprints).  I have a Turbo trainer and a Spin Bike at home but I find it MUCH more challenging (and frankly more interesting) to maintain a power-output zone than to maintain a heart rate zone (where your power is most likely dropping away gradually).

Watts/Kg seems to me a good measure though.  It tells you where you are regardless of age and gender. 

I expect it's nearly time for my next MMP test (Maximum Minute Power).  It's where I get to see my improvements (or not) and what I'll use to estimate my power:weight @ FTP.  I'm not looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Ningishzidda on 03 March, 2016, 12:11:51 pm
I am surprised at how often it seems that gyms have Wattbikes, but no qualified Wattbike instructors.

I'd agree that a Wattbike without a qualified instructor (or a well-informed user) is basically a Spin Bike. There are Wattbike Apps and information out there in the absence of an instructor.

https://wattbike.com/uk/train (https://wattbike.com/uk/train)

Our sessions at the bike shop are structured.  One session will focus on low-cadence, high-power, long duration and another may focus on high-cadence, short, maximal efforts (Sprints).  I have a Turbo trainer and a Spin Bike at home but I find it MUCH more challenging (and frankly more interesting) to maintain a power-output zone than to maintain a heart rate zone (where your power is most likely dropping away gradually).

Watts/Kg seems to me a good measure though.  It tells you where you are regardless of age and gender. 

I expect it's nearly time for my next MMP test (Maximum Minute Power).  It's where I get to see my improvements (or not) and what I'll use to estimate my power:weight @ FTP.  I'm not looking forward to it.

It tells you how fast you will climb a gradient !!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jamesld8 on 20 March, 2016, 05:08:34 pm
Over last couple weeks have been doing short hard pushes on hills etc I`d normally have just `plodded up` ; ie been doing random intervals getting HR up and feeling working hard. It`s actually made some of the riding more enjoyable and made me feel in better general shape. And got several PR on Strava segments too  :facepalm:

Change in weather from continually battling wind and rain has helped me to try harder as it`s me on bike v road so to speak, more manageable. So maybe this is my way forwards for this year, just trying a bit harder on short sections might yield overall dividends  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: tonyh on 21 March, 2016, 01:05:00 pm
Interesting thread... my experience: in mid-50s, getting faster was distinctly possible, in some respects anyway. Better get on with it though, because in mid-70s it feels much less possible!

(But the bursts of high HR happen more automatically - no other method of getting up the chevrons is available.)
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jamesld8 on 21 March, 2016, 01:36:15 pm
Interesting thread... my experience: in mid-50s, getting faster was distinctly possible, in some respects anyway. Better get on with it though, because in mid-70s it feels much less possible!

(But the bursts of high HR happen more automatically - no other method of getting up the chevrons is available.)

Thanks for encouraging words Tony, however I can assure you that even as a youngster in mid 50s  bursts of high HR also happen automatically on the chevrons  ;D ---- of which this area has more than its fair share !!
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: billplumtree on 21 March, 2016, 01:55:15 pm
I find riding fixed helps even more in that regard.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 22 March, 2016, 06:45:38 pm
I've read that a few (not very large) studies - plus anecdotal evidence from coaches of "mature" athletes - suggest that most folks who take things seriously see improvement for about 10 years (with Yr1 being the biggest, of course). Then they plateau and/or start declining.

If you start at 16, the improvements may continue for longer, but for us older folk the effects of aging at some point start to defeat the effects of all the training, nutrition yada yada ...

The 10 Year Effect seems to work equally for 40yos and 60yos.

I guess I'd fit in that pattern.  I started cycling more seriously the year I took up Audax in 2002 and also started riding regularly with a club (Age 38),  I probably reached a peak between 2009 and 2011 when I set my PB for 100 miles and was regularly at the pointy end of the harder Audax events.  Since then I've not dropped much but am definitely less sharp, probably about 5% off my 100 mile pace from those peak years.  There may be some improvement if I could up my annual mileage but that isn't likely.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: dim on 09 June, 2016, 08:24:55 pm
I'm 57, smoke and have only been cycling for 8 months

what has helped me is Strava and a bike computer with cadence... I commute daily on my bike

I cycle at 80 RPM +, and do lots of high intesity sections .... I have lost over 40 pounds in 8 months and have several strava records for my age group. I have cycled 4864 km since new years day and am getting fitter and faster

I still need to cut down on the beers though and need to eat healthier. I will never quit smoking  >:(

I'm hoping to do some audex rides soon

I have bought the Friel books but have not read them yet .... this is what has worked for me (so far)

I need a carbon bike though as I ride a cheap carrera  :-\

so bottom line in my opinion is that you need to do the miles with lots of high intesity segments
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: The French Tandem on 09 June, 2016, 08:51:23 pm
Agree with you on every point except:

I need a carbon bike though as I ride a cheap carrera 

If your goal is to lose weight and/or ride audaxes, your current bike is as good as any other. We have seen people (older than you are) successfully finishing audaxes on early 20th century steel bikes.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: dim on 09 June, 2016, 09:08:30 pm
Agree with you on every point except:

I need a carbon bike though as I ride a cheap carrera 

If your goal is to lose weight and/or ride audaxes, your current bike is as good as any other. We have seen people (older than you are) successfully finishing audaxes on early 20th century steel bikes.

LOL ... I know, but I always want to go faster. I have a Surly LHT that I will use for a few audex rides, very comfy for long rides and it's not too shabby on speed, even though it has wide 26 inch tyres

and I've also have just bought an old Trek 1000 which I collect on the weekend and which will replace my Carrera TDF (my neighbour is buying the Carrera) .

I will use the trek for my daily commutes .... it's a lot lighter and fits me well, has mudguards and a back rack, carbon forks, carbon handlebar and seat post ... I had a ride on it for a few km and it's a lot faster than the carrera.

in 2 months time, I'm hoping to buy a used Giant TCR Pro which will be my bike for fast rides.

have to get a shed aswell .... my wife is getting pissed off with the bikes in the laundy room  ;D

I'd also like to get a good racing tricycle and would attempt an audex with it. Seen some really good old ones for approx £350 on ebay ...

something like this:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9qo1DGqZOPM/TXYI6XcAFDI/AAAAAAAAEs4/2yLT3gzFSbM/s1600/bob+jackson+12++rsz.jpg)
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: The French Tandem on 10 June, 2016, 05:47:26 am
For someone who have been cycling for only 8 months, you have a very nice collection  :thumbsup:

When you will build your shed, don't forget, build it twice as large as you think you need!
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: sizbut on 10 June, 2016, 07:18:28 pm
To the original question, yes. I suspect the 52 year me could give the 20 year old me a serious challenge if not even beat. I suspect that the younger me did a lot of rides based simply based on youthful energy and enthusiasm. However, in the past decade, the older me has discovered the benefits of regular training, rollers and cycle computer analysis to the point of obsessive cadence and heart rate monitoring during rides - all with still improving results. It gets me wondering what I could have done if I'd taken a similar approach when younger (though Garmin and Strava didn't exist back then so it would have taken a lot of paper records or a coach).
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Ian H on 10 June, 2016, 08:17:18 pm
You can keep going if you keep going.  Restarting after a lay-off gets harder. 

Training gets harder, partly because you get lazier (a trick is to do silly and interesting things – like the three old farts who were persuaded to enter the national team time-trial championship, despite a combined age of 184).
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Si on 11 June, 2016, 05:28:58 pm
I found that endurance increased with age.  I put this down to a couple of things: just having more miles in the legs and also learning to slow down a bit such that I wasn't expending all my energy in the first couple of hours.  These are both as much about headology as physical constraints.

Once endurance increases one has the basic stamina to do more 'speed' work with less danger of burning ones self out too early in the ride so speed should go up a bit.

But my cycling was complicated in my 40s as I changed from mainly countryside longer rides that had few stops and starts but plenty of rolling hills, to urban riding - lots of stops and starts, short sprints, not a lot of long  hills.  This had the obvious effect of making my flat cruising speed come down but my sprints a bit better (but not that much).  And reducing climbing ability.  Also the strange side effect: I'd do (miles wise) in a whole day of urban riding in what I used to do in a morning in the countryside....which meant that when I went back to the countryside riding I could go further but had to do it at a slower pace....refer back to the above I guess.  I could also do long rides with much less preparation than I used to need.

Then it all went pear shaped last October with a fractured knee cap and off the bike for four months....when I got out of the cast my left leg had virtually no muscle left.  I was surprised by how fast I got back to a usable fitness.  Indeed, the other week I did my first 50miler (having only got up to 30 since the off) with no real noticeable extra effort, not to mention finding myself doing 18mph into the head wind chasing down some roadies at one point!  Thus, not only does recovery at this age seem quicker than it used to (e.g. when I was off with a knackered shoulder for a month or two in the 1990s), but getting up to the 50mile ride milestone seemed easier despite the injury than when I used to get slack over Christmas and then start rebuilding in the spring 20 years back with no injury to overcome.  This would seem contra to Ian H's statement....but I again I think that Ian is correct in terms of the physical recovery, but what I am experiencing is the headology of age.....I now know more about cycling, I am more confident, I worry less about being unfit, and thus the recovery 'seems' easy and because it feels like progress is being made faster it does actually get made faster.

Of course, climbing is still a pain in the knee.  I was always the kind of climber (when fit) who did most of a climb out of the saddle and only sat down to accelerate. This is now much harder as the knee doesn't like taking the extra weight, thus to an extent I'm having to learn to climb again. Not even going to look at the fixed or the SS for another year!

Anyway that's my experience of fitness vs ageing:  physically you might be declining but you can make up for this with increased mental strength and confidence as you become more at ease in your own skin as it were.  New-age hairy fairy bunkum? Maybe, but I seem to be happier in my cycling now than 20 years ago, plus I can do stuff with far less preparation....so it works for me.

Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jamesld8 on 11 June, 2016, 05:37:18 pm
I`ve continued to try and push harder for short (but not interval type planned) hills , some flats and find that I do feel quite a bit quicker and am regularly turning in 25 / 26 kph avg rides of up to 80 km. My overall average speed compared to last year is also up fractionally, rather than following slight decline I mentioned in my original posting. So yes it does look possible, not dramatically so but certainly a bit compared to same period 2015.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: TimC on 11 June, 2016, 06:05:17 pm
With sporadic and random use of Sufferfest, TrainerRoads and Zwift, my average speed on my typical 30-40km rides in fairly flat Suffolk has increased from around 24kmh (15mph) to 29kmh (18mph) over the last four or five years. I don't ride huge amounts - about 3-4000km a year - and rarely more than 100km in any one ride. I don't race and rarely do a TT (cos I'm rubbish!), and usually ride on my own. I'm now 60. So, yes, I reckon you can get faster!
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 12 June, 2016, 04:07:02 pm
at 57, what I have noticed the need for an increased length of warmup.  I cannot do fallen efforts without 15 minutes of real steady warmup.  i now build even into mySunday rides a 15 minute start before I even touch the hills.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Pedal Castro on 12 June, 2016, 05:58:46 pm
I am now 55 and started riding again about three years ago after a 22 year layoff. When I started again I told Mrs PC I wouldn't race again but stick with my first love of touring. It wasn't long after my first tour (to Cuba) that I stumbled into audax, then last year I did a handful of TTs. On no speed training, only miles, I didn't embarrass myself but I wasn't as fast as I was in 1990.

I have now started training properly and my targets are PBs at all TT distances and the club 12h record. I am assuming that aging can be overcome by training, because I didn't take it that seriously when I was younger :-)


Third PB of the year yesterday when I did 2:05:04 in the VTTA 50 which followed last week's first sub hour 25. So far so good, riding the F11/10 next weekend so may crack my 1989 10 mile PB too 😀
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jamesld8 on 17 June, 2016, 06:06:27 pm
I`m realising / thinking now it is indeed possible  :thumbsup: Today got my PB on local 1.1 km 8% average hill which was pleasing but more so was fact that my time was just 25% slower than Tour Britain riders did it---considering they are 30 years younger, quite happy with my performance  ;D
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Ross K on 01 July, 2016, 02:06:49 pm
Quick update from my previous post of a few months ago and after a good few TTs I can report that my speed is increasing significantly after a full winter and early summer of TT-specific training, not to mention losing the best part of a stone (now 10.5 stone, my weight of 25 years ago).

I'm doing PBs almost every other time I do a TT.  I'm 52 and this is year 2 of TT-ing for me.  I'm a few seconds off doing a sub 24 ten on our local non-flat course and going great in our various "Sporting Course" hilly TTs, beating all last-year PBs by huge margins.

This is less about me bragging and more about my own amazement (and a very intense feeling of satisfaction) that it's very doable to build strength and speed in one's mid-50s and perhaps it may serve to inspire others who may be wondering if they can just "go for it" and get results.


Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 08 July, 2016, 11:36:12 am
I took up TT'ing in 2006, partly out of curiosity and partly as I found my speed/concentration on the flat tended to dwindle on long rides, without hills to liven things up.  My times improved steadily over the next 3 years, but then started to plateau.  In retrospect I think that focus on the discipline, and a training regime structured to support riding fast gave some specific gains.  Another thing was finding my limits - that it could hurt that much and I could still survive.....  In my case the age range was 42 - 46, but I suspect the performance gains would have been similar whether I had started at 42 or 52. 

But I am looking at improving my speed again for next year, and will probably do something similar - more cross-training, with some work on strength, and riding for speed over a shorter period rather than just pure endurance.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 08 July, 2016, 04:17:33 pm
I have my Wattbike "Retest" tomorrow morning.  This will give me some indication of how beneficial structure power training is.

I haven't done a great deal on a bike this year but I have done 17 Wattbike sessions.  The sessions have included a wide mix of programs.

At 54 years old I find the multiple sprint sessions very tough, tougher than the endurance sessions. 
However it is quite clear that my recovery time has improved a lot.

My heart-rate comes down, and I get my breath back, very quickly now.  Initially I would say that the morning Wattbike session impacted my entire day, it went so deep.  Now I feel pretty good just 10 minutes afterwards, even though I'm producing more power.

Tomorrow will tell for sure though.

I am absolutely dreading the 3 minute max test... it is surely the longest 3 minutes imaginable.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Bolt on 13 July, 2016, 11:27:00 pm
The inevitable fact is that at some point in advancing years our respective average cycling speeds will start to diminish.  I'm looking to reduce my average voluntarily and seek accomplishment in other riding goals before I see my segment placings on Strava slowly go south.  I'd turn to Grant Petersen's philosophies in preference to Friel's, but realise that I've probably just committed blasphemy amongst members of this particular parish ???
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Ningishzidda on 14 July, 2016, 08:02:14 am
The inevitable fact is that at some point in advancing years our respective average cycling speeds will start to diminish.  I'm looking to reduce my average voluntarily and seek accomplishment in other riding goals before I see my segment placings on Strava slowly go south.  I'd turn to Grant Petersen's philosophies in preference to Friel's, but realise that I've probably just committed blasphemy amongst members of this particular parish ???

Look at the VTTA ( Veteran Time Trial Assoc. ) charts.

http://www.vtta.org.uk/information/standardstables.php
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Ross K on 15 July, 2016, 09:36:56 pm
I'm looking to reduce my average voluntarily

Each to their own, but like many other fifty-somethings I'm looking to increase my average speed voluntarily and it seems to be working a treat so far.

The problem with believing those sorts of articles that tell you that if you're aged "x" then you will have to accept that "y" or "z" will already be diminished, such predictions of your decline are bound to come true.

If, on the other hand, you refuse to subscribe to the "facts" about age related decline stated in such articles or to accept the "fate" that they predict for you, you may just realise the ambitions that they tell you are not possible.

This week in wind and rain I did a 1:01 on our club (not very flat) 25, my first ever 25, ambition this season is a 59:59.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Bolt on 15 July, 2016, 10:20:32 pm
This week in wind and rain I did a 1:01 on our club (not very flat) 25, my first ever 25, ambition this season is a 59:59.

Of course, for people taking up cycling later in life or for those who were previously less fit(myself the latter) there are still significant improvements in speed to be gained.  At 54 I sense that I've reached the peak in what I can reasonably expect my body to achieve without adopting a regime of diet and training that could really take the fun out of cycling... and life.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Phil W on 17 July, 2016, 07:08:03 pm
Your maximum potential will be reduced but if you never hit your maximum potential when younger it is still quite possible to exceed your best younger efforts.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 18 July, 2016, 06:58:49 am
I think for each person there is a trade off between hard work and reward. I have decided to train properly this year with a coach. I am 58 in 2 weeks. I never expect to be a medal winner but I hope to achieve my age targets with VTTA and to enjoy my riding more at whatever speed I can achieve
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jamesld8 on 10 August, 2016, 03:49:32 pm
I`ve just started doing some 40-50 km rides on a Singlespeed, rides have roughly 500 m climbing too so they`re not flat spin outs.

My average speed on each and every one of the 4 rides has exceeded that of my geared bike by 1- 2 kph, and I`ve also now reduced my PR for several hills including a 2.4 km @ 5% average which I found very hard going. Looks as if having options of changing down when going gets tough could limit my fitness gains !
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: zigzag on 10 August, 2016, 04:10:01 pm
i've have plenty of data from riding the same 75km loop on various bikes, ss bike is just as quick as the geared one (sometimes even quicker as the drivetrain is more efficient and it's easier to keep the momentum up the gradient), it only lags behind going really fast* and climbing very steep* hills. no faff with changing gears and good training too, both for the cadence and power.

*insert appropriate values
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jamesld8 on 10 August, 2016, 04:52:21 pm
i've have plenty of data from riding the same 75km loop on various bikes, ss bike is just as quick as the geared one (sometimes even quicker as the drivetrain is more efficient and it's easier to keep the momentum up the gradient), it only lags behind going really fast* and climbing very steep* hills. no faff with changing gears and good training too, both for the cadence and power.

*insert appropriate values

The loops I`ve done have been fairly standard ones for me over last two years and I`ve used three different geared bikes and now SS. the SS average  speeds have exceeded any of the geared bikes over the different loops, and on a long hill the SS bike has been quicker. A hill I normally ride on 34 x 23 / 26 I`m forced to muscle up in 46 x 18 and consequently was fastest time ever for me.

I feel that the SS is just making me work a lot harder as I don`t have option of reducing gear ratio, which may be a good thing. As for `very steep hills` I`m OK on up to 75 above 10% (short couple hundred metre ramps)  it`s really hard and I almost stall.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jamesld8 on 16 October, 2016, 07:44:40 pm
It now looks as if answer is `yes I can` :)

cf same period my average speed has increased from 22.82 kph to 23.17 kph which I feel is significant, in 2015 my average speed had decreased by about 0.2 kph cf 2014 so an increase bucks the trend.

What has changed? I think pushing harder up hills and recently riding single speed have increased speed. I`ve not done an Alps etc trip which knocks speeds down but HGW (well the 750 km I did) dropped average similarly to an Alpine trip.

comments welcome !
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 16 October, 2016, 07:59:24 pm
I have my Wattbike "Retest" tomorrow morning.  This will give me some indication of how beneficial structure power training is.

I haven't done a great deal on a bike this year but I have done 17 Wattbike sessions.  The sessions have included a wide mix of programs.

At 54 years old I find the multiple sprint sessions very tough, tougher than the endurance sessions. 
However it is quite clear that my recovery time has improved a lot.

My heart-rate comes down, and I get my breath back, very quickly now.  Initially I would say that the morning Wattbike session impacted my entire day, it went so deep.  Now I feel pretty good just 10 minutes afterwards, even though I'm producing more power.

Tomorrow will tell for sure though.

I am absolutely dreading the 3 minute max test... it is surely the longest 3 minutes imaginable.

What a fool I was, thinking the 3 minute max test is the longest 3 minutes imaginable!

I have since done the Wattbike 20 minute Threshold test.  Pah! to those 3 minutes.

My power and my recovery from maximum exertion continue to improve week by week.
Clearly it will plateau at some point. I'm 54.

One day it will plateau and then my battle will be hanging on to my power numbers.  However, in the meantime, from a fairly fit base leading up to Paris Brest Paris, I have continued to improve.

It DOES take me a few days to get over the impact of some of the classes.  That's the advantage of being young, like Laura Trott. She can subject her body to a Wattbike regime 2-3 times a day.  At 54 you really can't, it goes too deep and needs time to repair.  Tangible benefits though.  It's all about properly targeted efforts though.

EDIT.  My Power numbers, for various retests, have been improving in the order of 10-15% over the length of the 2 month courses/sessions.  That's going once a week.

I reckon I could deal, physically and mentally (just) with 2-3 sessions a week, not one (if I had a Race target to aim for).  If I subjected myself to that regime I honestly think I could go from 237W FTP to 337W FTP in 3-6 months.  I just don't have a race target and I'm not willing to go through the pain as an experiment. I already semi-dread Monday evenings.

You see the problem is that your latest numbers are entered into the Wattbike as a basis for that day's sessions. 
No matter how much you improve the Wattbike ensures you go through the same pain.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jamesld8 on 18 November, 2016, 09:03:53 am
I found my old handwritten cycling logs the other day, dating back to mid 1980s. Looking thro` I found that in 1991 / 92 I rode a 200km Audax out of Brecon (IIRC it was the old Crossing Desert Mid Wales, around Llyn Brianne, Tregaron Mtn Rd so not flat) and my records show that I completed in 7 1/2 hr riding time.  :thumbsup:

 By comparison my recent 200s I`ve taken 9 to 10  hr riding so that nearly balances up with a 1% reduction in speed per year older since then. Absolute unequivocal evidence I`m slower now than then  :( Can`t put back time, although this year thro` riding harder / trying push harder I have upped my speed by 2% over 2015
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 10 October, 2017, 11:51:01 am
I reckon I could deal, physically and mentally (just) with 2-3 sessions a week, not one (if I had a Race target to aim for).  If I subjected myself to that regime I honestly think I could go from 237W FTP to 337W FTP in 3-6 months.  I just don't have a race target and I'm not willing to go through the pain as an experiment. I already semi-dread Monday evenings.

You see the problem is that your latest numbers are entered into the Wattbike as a basis for that day's sessions. 
No matter how much you improve the Wattbike ensures you go through the same pain.

I've been going to Wattbike classes once a week since Feb 2016 and my numbers continue to climb.

There's most definitely hope for us 50+ types.  My FTP is now at 278Watts and it was around 220Watts when I started.  I'm down about 7Kilos since I started which has given me a 35% increase in Power:Weight.  (2.47W/Kg to 3.36W/Kg).

35% increase in P:W in 18 months, in your 50s, is not insignificant.  That's taken 53 Wattbike classes, so 53 hours, or about the same time as 2 x 300km Audax rides.  It demonstrates the power of structured training.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jiberjaber on 10 October, 2017, 02:07:54 pm
Thats an impressive gain from a single structured session per week...  :thumbsup: I seemed to have been having to do 3-4 hour long sessions per week for similar gains! (via Trainer Road)
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 10 October, 2017, 03:28:17 pm
Thats an impressive gain from a single structured session per week...  :thumbsup: I seemed to have been having to do 3-4 hour long sessions per week for similar gains! (via Trainer Road)

It's in a class environment.  I have a turbo trainer at home but I can't come close to the efforts I manage under peer-pressure it seems.

It also helps when everyone's Power, Training Zone, Heart-rate and RPM are displayed on a big screen at the front of class.  No hiding like there was in the Spin class I used to use.

The instructor know if you're in Z5 or shirking in Z3....as does everyone else.

At the end of class I feel I'm on the borderline between euphoria and fainting.  I just can't dig that deep at home.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: dim on 10 October, 2017, 03:50:45 pm
I'm 57 in 2 weeks, and have been cycling/commuting for 2 years and a bit. I was a heavy smoker, drink beer everyninght and very fat and unfit.

I really struggled at first and started on a £40 Ridgeback Hybrid.But it's going ok now, and I've lost 29Kg (4 1/2 stone). I have cycled 11450km this year with 62 000 meters of elevation.

I'm trying to cycle longer distances now I am hoping to be ok for Audax rides. I've entered my 1st Audax on Oct 21st. (Cambridge Autumnal 100). I really wanted to try the 200, but it ends in the dark, and I don't have dynamo or decent lights)

I'm busy building a 1981 Koga Miyata with dynamo lights etc and am hoping to use this for long Audax rides. (it will be weigh approx 8 1/2kg when I'm done)

Based on my own experience, the 4 most important things that helped me is cadence (get the average to the 80's), Do lots of sprints, cycle longer routes and most importantly, do the hills.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jiberjaber on 10 October, 2017, 04:13:30 pm
Thats an impressive gain from a single structured session per week...  :thumbsup: I seemed to have been having to do 3-4 hour long sessions per week for similar gains! (via Trainer Road)

It's in a class environment.  I have a turbo trainer at home but I can't come close to the efforts I manage under peer-pressure it seems.

It also helps when everyone's Power, Training Zone, Heart-rate and RPM are displayed on a big screen at the front of class.  No hiding like there was in the Spin class I used to use.

The instructor know if you're in Z5 or shirking in Z3....as does everyone else.

At the end of class I feel I'm on the borderline between euphoria and fainting.  I just can't dig that deep at home.

But you must be doing some cycling around that as well?  Is the session over an hour long? - even on my ERG controlled trainer and looking at the metrics in Training Peaks I wouldn't be able to match that gain from a single session per week... there's no doubting structured training gives the best bang for time invested - if I could do it with just one session in the pain cave that would be a great breakthrough.


I'm 57 in 2 weeks, and have been cycling/commuting for 2 years and a bit. I was a heavy smoker, drink beer everyninght and very fat and unfit.

I really struggled at first and started on a £40 Ridgeback Hybrid.But it's going ok now, and I've lost 29Kg (4 1/2 stone). I have cycled 11450km this year with 62 000 meters of elevation.

I'm trying to cycle longer distances now I am hoping to be ok for Audax rides. I've entered my 1st Audax on Oct 21st. (Cambridge Autumnal 100). I really wanted to try the 200, but it ends in the dark, and I don't have dynamo or decent lights)

I'm busy building a 1981 Koga Miyata with dynamo lights etc and am hoping to use this for long Audax rides. (it will be weigh approx 8 1/2kg when I'm done)

Based on my own experience, the 4 most important things that helped me is cadence (get the average to the 80's), Do lots of sprints, cycle longer routes and most importantly, do the hills.

Thats great Dim, please leave some cake for us late finishers  ;D :thumbsup:  Perhaps we could tempt you on to some of the ACME rides this winter?
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: dim on 10 October, 2017, 08:17:05 pm
Quote

Thats great Dim, please leave some cake for us late finishers  ;D :thumbsup:  Perhaps we could tempt you on to some of the ACME rides this winter?

It's my first Audax and I need to learn lots, especially with the controls etc, what guys are carrying with them, tyres (especially tubeless, as that's what I'm trying now, what bikes they are using, what food they eat etc etc . I have lots to learn, so will follow, ask and try and learn ....

I googled ACME and I would love to do some of their rides. I will also see what permanent Audax Rides are close to me for the next few months.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Feanor on 10 October, 2017, 08:28:59 pm
I'm 53, and have been riding recreational / utility / audax for some years, and would typically average about 25 - 27 kph moving average if left to myself, depending on distance.

Since summer, I've taken up with a works cycling group who do lunchtime rides of about an hour.
Some of these are TT riders, and former racers.
The pace was rather more than I was used to.
It was all I could do to hang on.

But now, about 3 months in doing daily 25 - 30 k rides, we are now averaging close to 30kph for the hour, sometimes more.
I'm now able to take a turn at the front at 40+ kph for a reasonable distance, where I was previously just hingin on.
That's the quickest I've ever been.

So yes, in your mid 50s you can certainly get faster.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 10 October, 2017, 09:16:09 pm
But you must be doing some cycling around that as well?  Is the session over an hour long? - even on my ERG controlled trainer and looking at the metrics in Training Peaks I wouldn't be able to match that gain from a single session per week... there's no doubting structured training gives the best bang for time invested - if I could do it with just one session in the pain cave that would be a great breakthrough.
I cycle, but not so much any more since PBP2015.  I was averaging about 5,000 miles a year until I finished PBP and my ability to cycle 600km type distances was undoubtedly better than it is right now.  However Wattbike classes have allowed me to keep in great shape without losing endless weekends to endless Audaxing (I may just exceed 2,000 miles this year).

If I was still Audaxing AND doing Wattbike classes then I have no doubts I'd be fitter, faster, stronger, at 55, than I have ever been in my life.  I reckon my local TT times would be the same now as they were 20 years ago.
Extreme endurance fitness plus power would be a wonderful combination and cycling would be so easy.  However my life is heading elsewhere and I can't be as selfish with my weekends now.

Just a word of warning though.  My Wattbike results haven't come easy.  It's bloody tough, as painful as anything I've put myself through, but the rewards come quickly.  I fully understand why people wouldn't want to do it.

To the OP and the original question.  It's a distinct possibility, actually unavoidable if you put the hard work in.

FYI.  My MMP (Maximum Minute Power) has gone from 312W to 393W when my starting position was off the back of PBP2015 and 2 years of prep/qualifying so I wasn't exactly starting from scratch.

The Michael Moseley BBC documentary (about HIIT training) discussed the genetic component of improving fitness.  The results of exercise/training do not impact everyone the same. 
There's a Bell-Curve of response to exercise.  On the extreme left are people who simply don't improve as a result of training (Michael Moseley is down there). 
On the extreme right of the curve are the elite athletes, the people who respond exceptionally well to training. 
You can find this out by recording your training results over time or (as Moseley did) having a genetic test.
Add a natural ability, like Chris Froome's (high altitude) lung capacity, to a super-responder's genetics and you have a Tour de France winner....if they train hard of course (The very best have all physical advantages PLUS the mental ability to put themselves though daily torture sessions for years on end).

I seem to improve quickly but I also seem to "lose it" very quickly. 
Some of my friends seem to be able to "store fitness", to jump on a bike after a long layoff and remain fast.  That's not me.  I lose it if I don't use it, and fairly quickly.

It may be depressing but some people just won't ever get faster.  They WILL get healthier though...just no Gold medals.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Ross K on 01 November, 2017, 12:20:22 pm
Lee,

Great to follow your story.

I posted earlier in the thread and have since made further progress in my TT times this season although the elusive sub minute 25 mile TT on our slightly hilly course still eludes me by a few seconds.

So I'm 53 and three quarters and whilst I've improved a lot in three years, like you, I'm planning to move to proper measured "smart training".

A club mate who is 49 has made such unbelievable gains (2016->2017) via a Tacx Neo, raw determination and lots of Sufferfest interval training, that cynics thought he might actually be doping, which he is not, by the way.  He's doing 25TTs in mid 57 now, faster by over three minutes vs 2016!!

So I'm getting a smart trainer and subscribing to Trainerroad for this winter.  I'm fully expecting significant FTP gains.  I've done plenty of winters of long dark miles but hour for hour, I have come to realise that the quality of training on a smart trainer with a structured plan is far superior to road training, if one's hours are limited.

Good luck to you and here's to a hard winter (of training, that is)!
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: sojournermike on 07 November, 2017, 02:08:02 pm
Joe Friel would class you as a classic athlete who has swapped intensity for steady state and will therefore see a 3w per year fall in power.  The only way to reverse that and maintain the speed seems to be intensive strength work and power work.

There are increasing numbers of men in the USA who are using testosterone patches as they head into the 60s and 70s to help maintain that muscle power.  Whether it will catch on here is difficult to tell.

I'm sure it will catch on if they become easily obtainable. Perhaps if suppliers would send them to every household with a resident over 50 male by mistake then there would be a surge in take up...
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 07 November, 2017, 07:45:43 pm
As someone who does not race but wants to be as fit as possible they are quite tempting.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: giropaul on 10 November, 2017, 11:03:42 am
More than one veteran cyclists in the USA have also been issued with doping bans following tests that show exogenous ( not produced naturally in the person’s body) testosterone.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: sojournermike on 10 November, 2017, 02:38:08 pm
As someone who does not race but wants to be as fit as possible they are quite tempting.

You can possibly find them Chris, but I understand there are some real questions about safety in the medium to longer term. Principally about impact on progression of heart disease.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: mattc on 10 November, 2017, 02:41:06 pm
As someone who does not race but wants to be as fit as possible they are quite tempting.
"fit"
or "doped"?

It's a fine line. Your choice!
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: sojournermike on 10 November, 2017, 06:29:04 pm
As someone who does not race but wants to be as fit as possible they are quite tempting.
"fit"
or "doped"?

It's a fine line. Your choice!

Or honest
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: sojournermike on 10 November, 2017, 06:29:47 pm
As someone who does not race but wants to be as fit as possible they are quite tempting.
"fit"
or "doped"?

It's a fine line. Your choice!

Or honest


And on that theme - is 4W/kg too much to ask for over 50?
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Greenbank on 10 November, 2017, 07:09:04 pm
4W/kg for how long? FTP?
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 10 November, 2017, 07:52:51 pm
As someone who does not race but wants to be as fit as possible they are quite tempting.
"fit"
or "doped"?

It's a fine line. Your choice!

Or honest


And on that theme - is 4W/kg too much to ask for over 50?

No, it's my goal and I'm 55. 

I was around 2.8W/Kg 11 months ago (based on 1 hour FTP Watts) now I'm 3.5W/Kg.
My current FTP is 278W and I may be able to squeeze out >290W if I dedicate myself to it for a year (It's sooo painful).
My weight has dropped from 94.8Kg to 80.3Kg since January and that's by far the biggest contributing factor to the whole equation, and where the biggest gains are available now my FTP gains are starting to plateau.

Basically I need to get to 290W FTP and down to 72.3Kg (11st 6lb or thereabouts).  That's not impossible it's just a year of bloody hard work (structured training with Power)  and dedication (Intermittent fasting for weight loss).   11st 7lb is actually a healthy weight for me rather than a crazy target.

I'm not sure I'll ever get there but 3.5W/Kg feels bloody great out on the road, effortless at times, so 3.6...3.7 will feel even better.

The first step on the road to 4W/Kg is establishing your current W/Kg and then setting out your 2 goals, realistic power increase target and realistic weight loss target.

Try to ignore the mind-bending fact that Tour de France winners are generally >6W/kg !!!!!!!

Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Chris S on 10 November, 2017, 08:04:21 pm
I forget how tall you are LEE, but my recollection is you're about the same height as me, which leads me to think you're aiming for a body fat percentage <10%?
I'll be watching your progress with interest. I'm not convinced I could get my BF even to 10 let alone below it!

I've been considering what a realistic target would be for me, and I'd kinda settled on 3W/Kg because I doubt I can get my weight below 75Kg, and 225W seems a reasonable figure given that I'm 195 currently, and feel pretty unfit.

I doubt I want/can put up with such long-term levels of training discomfort, TBH.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: zigzag on 10 November, 2017, 08:08:27 pm
my dad is 64 and with the structured training managed to raise his power from 2.9 to 3.7w/kg in about year and a half (he's started cycling at 60). his target is also 4w/kg by next summer which i believe he can achieve.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 10 November, 2017, 09:45:42 pm
About 4 W/kg is doable (at least it was the last time I tried) but it is a very painful process to get there. Frankly I haven't been arsed to do that hard work for years.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: dim on 10 November, 2017, 10:14:06 pm
As someone who does not race but wants to be as fit as possible they are quite tempting.
"fit"
or "doped"?

It's a fine line. Your choice!

Or honest


And on that theme - is 4W/kg too much to ask for over 50?

No, it's my goal and I'm 55. 

I was around 2.8W/Kg 11 months ago (based on 1 hour FTP Watts) now I'm 3.5W/Kg.
My current FTP is 278W and I may be able to squeeze out >290W if I dedicate myself to it for a year (It's sooo painful).
My weight has dropped from 94.8Kg to 80.3Kg since January and that's by far the biggest contributing factor to the whole equation, and where the biggest gains are available now my FTP gains are starting to plateau.

Basically I need to get to 290W FTP and down to 72.3Kg (11st 6lb or thereabouts).  That's not impossible it's just a year of bloody hard work (structured training with Power)  and dedication (Intermittent fasting for weight loss).   11st 7lb is actually a healthy weight for me rather than a crazy target.

I'm not sure I'll ever get there but 3.5W/Kg feels bloody great out on the road, effortless at times, so 3.6...3.7 will feel even better.

The first step on the road to 4W/Kg is establishing your current W/Kg and then setting out your 2 goals, realistic power increase target and realistic weight loss target.

Try to ignore the mind-bending fact that Tour de France winners are generally >6W/kg !!!!!!!

3.5W/kg .... that's very good ....

I'm 57 and was 104kg when I started cycling 2 yrs ago and I'm now 75Kg (I have lost 29kg = 4.56 Stone)...

I have cycled 12,887.9 km so far this year with an elevation gain of 71,291 m

Strava calculates my watts/kg at 1.72 w/kg .... I don't regard myself as slow as I check my segment times with others who have cycled them on the same day ....

so you must be very fast?
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: sojournermike on 11 November, 2017, 07:33:34 am
That's all encouraging. Thanks!

 I'm 'only' 52 (almost) and currently at least 2.9 at 81kg. 75kg I'd pretty achievable. I used to run quickly at 71kg and I'm 1.85 or 1.86m tall. May as well give it a go, if work and commuting leaves time to train.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 11 November, 2017, 01:48:30 pm

3.5W/kg .... that's very good ....

I'm 57 and was 104kg when I started cycling 2 yrs ago and I'm now 75Kg (I have lost 29kg = 4.56 Stone)...

I have cycled 12,887.9 km so far this year with an elevation gain of 71,291 m

Strava calculates my watts/kg at 1.72 w/kg .... I don't regard myself as slow as I check my segment times with others who have cycled them on the same day ....

so you must be very fast?

Not really.  I wouldn't trust Strava estimates for FTP because that means your FTP is 129 Watts which is ridiculously low.
Strava is quite accurate at estimating power over a segment but FTP is just not the same.

There's really no accurate way of estimating FTP without  getting on a stationary bike with a power meter...then going max effort for a decent amount of time. 
You simply can't go max effort on the road for 20 minutes. You may think you have done....but you haven't.  At the end of an FTP test you'll realise that you've been kidding yourself about maximum effort for years.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 13 December, 2017, 09:38:24 am
I just bumped my FTP from 278 to 286* since October.

Did a 20min threshold test this morning and managed to hang on to 301 Watts average for the whole 20 minutes (I'd set 300W as a target).

*60min FTP is calculated as 95% of your 20 minute threshold.  It's rare that anyone does a full 60min FTP because it's so hard mentally as well as physically.

Today's test was by far the toughest thing I've ever done physically, I managed to judge it perfectly so I was just about able to fall off the bike at the end without hurting myself.

I'm 7.5% up on power since February, 2.8% up on power since October.  My weight is down 10.6% over the year so it's been a real success I think. 

Just referring back to the OP, I'm 55 and I wasn't a slouch to start with so I hope this helps convince other "wrinklies" that there are significant gains to be had*

*Assuming you aren't already well-trained, powerful and skinny of course.  My background is Audax rather than speed/power so I had plenty of room to increase my power (and reduce my belly).
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: DuncanM on 13 December, 2017, 12:08:42 pm
That's a good gain in a short space of time, given where you were starting.
And 7.5% up on power since Feb is really impressive.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 13 December, 2017, 02:02:33 pm
That's a good gain in a short space of time, given where you were starting.
And 7.5% up on power since Feb is really impressive.  :thumbsup:

It's up 28% since Feb 2016 (when I did my very first assessment).

A lot of that gain is learning what to expect though, setting a realistic target power, and good pacing (it's very easy to start too hard as it doesn't feel all that tough for the first 4-5 minutes*).

*The final 4-5 minutes are truly brutal though.  A 20 minute FTP test isn't the worst 20 minutes of your life....it's the worst 9 minutes of your life..and then the worst 8...7....6..etc
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: JohnR on 13 December, 2017, 02:24:57 pm
Agree entirely with Lee's comment above about ftp test being worst last few minutes, did one on gym bike last couple of week ago now, assumed I was about 200 watts so set off keeping up 200 watts but never really got over this as the 20 minutes wore on it got harder to maintain (quads hurting). I finished with possibly some more to give but was happy to accept 190 watts ftp for my first one.

Set up my zones for workloading and did last 2 weeks based on this and felt this was realistic. However, since this week I read a blog from a French guy who mentioned to activate your glutes (I consider myself to be weak in this area) by rocking your pelvis forwards instead of vertical by a few degrees when on the bike. Well I tried this on Sunday on the gym bike and wow, what a light bulb moment! I was running 200 watts for 30 minutes at 100 rpm with hr at around 160-165 bpm and felt great (quads not hurting, hardly noticing effort, but glutes feeling as though they are working a little bit).

This has got me thinking that all this time I was on the gym bike, I was not riding the same as on my bike as I got a power meter fitted a couple of weeks ago and after my 190 watts ftp found I was going up hills and putting out 216 watts and maintaining this for long periods of time (unlike on the gym bike). It seems as though the gym bike was only getting my quads stronger but I was using my glutes when on the bike.

Bottom line is due to this revelation I am going to do another test in the new position on the gym bike as last night's overs and unders proved very easy keeping watts down to 216.
I'm 63 in December and started riding again 5 years ago and am trying to up my ftp, so far now going better than ever.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 13 December, 2017, 03:12:32 pm
The lack of fine adjustment and the huge Q-factor (distance between pedals) on our Gym bikes means I can't get anywhere near my normal power.  It feels like I'm trying to pedal a car.

Wattbikes, while not perfect, do allow me to get a position closer to my usual bike.

There's clearly no beating the latest Smart Trainers, such as the Wahoo Kikr, that utilise your own bike and are as accurate as a Wattbike.  The problem I have with that is the low motivation to use a home trainer.  There are people waiting for me at 06:30 on Wednesdays.  It's a bloody horrid ride there in the dark and cold but the group environment must buy me another 20% effort.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: simonp on 14 December, 2017, 01:48:51 am
Good work Lee. My FTP is somewhere in the 220 ish range so I have some catching up to do!

Might do a test tomorrow as I’ve had a few days off due to travel so should be fresh.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 14 December, 2017, 01:12:42 pm
Good work Lee. My FTP is somewhere in the 220 ish range so I have some catching up to do!

Might do a test tomorrow as I’ve had a few days off due to travel so should be fresh.

I'll swap some of my power for some of your lightness
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: dim on 14 December, 2017, 03:29:16 pm
I done my first Sportive a few weeks ago .... It was only a 50Km, but I gave it my best the whole way .... I was 6% in Zone 3, 84% Zone 4 and 9% in zone 5

https://www.strava.com/activities/1281665044/overview (https://www.strava.com/activities/1281665044/overview)

Strava calculates my ride at 1,93 W/Kg so thats pretty shite compared to what I have read on this thread  :(
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: simonp on 14 December, 2017, 03:34:36 pm
Good work Lee. My FTP is somewhere in the 220 ish range so I have some catching up to do!

Might do a test tomorrow as I’ve had a few days off due to travel so should be fresh.

I'll swap some of my power for some of your lightness

You’ve not seen me in a while have you!

Currently I’m 83kg. I blame taking up rowing.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jiberjaber on 14 December, 2017, 03:44:11 pm
I done my first Sportive a few weeks ago .... It was only a 50Km, but I gave it my best the whole way .... I was 6% in Zone 3, 84% Zone 4 and 9% in zone 5

https://www.strava.com/activities/1281665044/overview (https://www.strava.com/activities/1281665044/overview)

Strava calculates my ride at 1,93 W/Kg so thats pretty shite compared to what I have read on this thread  :(

I'd check your settings for HR zones and weight in Strava. 
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 14 December, 2017, 03:50:23 pm
I done my first Sportive a few weeks ago .... It was only a 50Km, but I gave it my best the whole way .... I was 6% in Zone 3, 84% Zone 4 and 9% in zone 5

https://www.strava.com/activities/1281665044/overview (https://www.strava.com/activities/1281665044/overview)

Strava calculates my ride at 1,93 W/Kg so thats pretty shite compared to what I have read on this thread  :(

I've been using W/Kg based on a Functional Threshold Power test.  That's the "industry standard" so to speak.

What does Strava use to calculate it?  Average power for the ride?  If so then it's meaningless unless you're doing a full-on Time Trial and, even then, TTs sometimes force you to coast around bends or ease of the power occasionally. 

An FTP test is unrelenting and gives me much higher P:W numbers than any cycle ride I have ever done.  I see some of your PBs were done around 260-280 Watts.  I'd be more inclined to use that as the basis for your calculations.

A lady in my Wattbike class has a P:W of 4.02 W/Kg !!!  She's a racing snake build, wiry, but manages to generate a lot of power with it.  I've never ridden with her but I'm imagining a scenario where she disappears over the crest of a long climb as I wheeze my way after her.  She actually has the best P:W of anyone in the class
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: simonp on 14 December, 2017, 04:13:55 pm
I got to about 3.6W/kg last year. But that was back when I weighed 76.5kg...
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: DuncanM on 14 December, 2017, 04:27:20 pm
I done my first Sportive a few weeks ago .... It was only a 50Km, but I gave it my best the whole way .... I was 6% in Zone 3, 84% Zone 4 and 9% in zone 5

https://www.strava.com/activities/1281665044/overview (https://www.strava.com/activities/1281665044/overview)

Strava calculates my ride at 1,93 W/Kg so thats pretty shite compared to what I have read on this thread  :(
Your moving time is 1 hour 45. So an average power over that duration would be under your FTP, even if you were riding a flat road at a consistent speed for the whole thing. Chances are that it wasn't flat, and you stopped, eased off, or even used your brakes at times. If you want to use Strava to try to get a sensible FTP there are a couple of ways you could try.  Either find a climb that takes > 8 minutes, hammer up it, cruise to the bottom and hammer up it again - then take 90% of the average FTP you had while climbing. Or go find a nice flat 10 mile TT course, ride it as hard as you can and take 95% of the average power over that duration. Neither are going to be massively accurate, but both are going to have you exerting steady-state power for a significant chunk of time (but less than 1 hour).
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: jiberjaber on 14 December, 2017, 04:42:16 pm
I done my first Sportive a few weeks ago .... It was only a 50Km, but I gave it my best the whole way .... I was 6% in Zone 3, 84% Zone 4 and 9% in zone 5

https://www.strava.com/activities/1281665044/overview (https://www.strava.com/activities/1281665044/overview)

Strava calculates my ride at 1,93 W/Kg so thats pretty shite compared to what I have read on this thread  :(

I'd check your settings for HR zones and weight in Strava.

If you go to your power curve and set it to w/kg you'll be a happier - I think it shows you between 2.23 and 2.36 w/kg rather than 1.9 based on your 20min power  :thumbsup: (your 1 hour power was 2.2w/kg )
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Samuel D on 14 December, 2017, 05:24:22 pm
I’m low on power compared to the racers I occasionally ride with and light too (~65 kg), but despite that I do okay on the flat and can sometimes even ride people off my wheel. However, the climbs are another matter, because there I can’t cheat with aerodynamics. Climbs, not time trials, are the race of truth.

Even good amateur racers often have bad riding positions. I get low, chin bouncing off the bar, and can hold it there for minutes at a time. I also have ankles like a gazelle, aero-neutral arms, tight clothing, and a clean bicycle (http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img922/6494/C5I3Hd.jpg). Because of this, Strava grossly overestimates my power on the flat.

My point is that Strava is just as likely to underestimate your power if you have an upright position and wear clothes too big for you.

I’ve noticed that people who train a lot indoors are often not great on the road, because the critical importance of aerodynamics hasn’t sunk home. It’s a lot easier to reduce drag than increase power! Keep that in mind if you do a lot of indoor training this winter. Power is only half the story.

If you’re like fully 95% of cyclists I see on the road, as opposed to those I see on television, “getting faster when getting into mid 50s” would be more easily achieved by improving your riding position than increasing your power. Training with a power meter but no wind risks encouraging a powerful, inefficient style. These people are great to draft behind, but they’re not fast. Not in the long run, at least.

Speaking of drafting, it helps a lot more in the real world than in Zwift.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 14 December, 2017, 05:57:47 pm
I got to about 3.6W/kg last year. But that was back when I weighed 76.5kg...

I'm 3.57W/Kg but unfortunately around 84Kg. 

Goal is to keep my power and get down to 72Kg to achieve 4W/Kg by summer.  I have an appointment with my Motorhome and the French Alps.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Asterix, the former Gaul. on 15 December, 2017, 07:46:25 am
Quote
I’ve noticed that people who train a lot indoors are often not great on the road, because the critical importance of aerodynamics hasn’t sunk home. It’s a lot easier to reduce drag than increase power! Keep that in mind if you do a lot of indoor training this winter. Power is only half the story.

I think that is very true.  Cycling in the Pyrenees with a group doing several hundred kms, I noticed that some people who could climb better than I could (most people could!) were very timid on the descents, braking all the way down, it seemed.  I guessed they were turbo trained.  When we got on a leg with flat stretches and a bit of headwind they were also at a disadvantage, altho' on the flat my power to weight ratio was no longer a handicap and I can ride on the drops all day long.

More on topic, the oldest of our group had turned 70 and had 2 'new' knees!  He wasn't slowest and he wasn't the one who had to drop out and take the bus.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: DuncanM on 15 December, 2017, 10:30:48 am
It’s a lot easier to reduce drag than increase power!
I'm not convinced that's especially true, if you are talking about riding a regular road bike for hours at a time (obviously if you are doing 10 mile TTs then it probably is). The whole "sportive bike" sector has essentially come about because many people found that the position required by the equivalent racing bike cause them discomfort/pain on longer rides. After my bike fit, I ended up looking at bikes with a significantly higher stack - think Synapse with spacers, rather than a CAAD12 with a slammed stem. The latter would be much more aero, but I don't have the flexibility to hold that position for more than brief bursts - increasing my FTP means that I can ride at a higher (sub FTP) wattage for longer.
And let's face it, riding your turbo and getting fitter is still riding a bike - I'd prefer to spend 3 hours a week doing that than doing yoga so I'm more bendy and would eventually be able to contort into a more aero position. :)
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: rob on 15 December, 2017, 11:29:08 am
It’s a lot easier to reduce drag than increase power!

Easier yes.   Cheaper no.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: simonp on 15 December, 2017, 11:39:57 am
Aggressive aero positions reduce power output. AIUI, etting good at TTing requires training in position to adapt and reduce the loss in power.

Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Samuel D on 15 December, 2017, 11:56:19 am
I'm not convinced that's especially true, if you are talking about riding a regular road bike for hours at a time (obviously if you are doing 10 mile TTs then it probably is).

I see it the other way around. Everyone doing TTs knows, because they’re told, that aerodynamics matter greatly. So they all try.

People doing long road rides often do not realise that most of their power is expended on drag and that aerodynamics are almost as important at these speeds. Therefore there is more low-hanging fruit for typical audax riders than typical TT riders.

The whole "sportive bike" sector has essentially come about because many people found that the position required by the equivalent racing bike cause them discomfort/pain on longer rides.

These machines are somewhat missing the point. They fix the discomfort by raising the front end when the more aerodynamic approach to comfort is to slacken the seat-tube angle, allowing hours-long comfort with a low back.

Of course you need to practice riding in the low position, but the required practice is not tremendous. A couple of hours a week suffices.

Besides, the handlebar position is only tenuously related to your riding position. My bars are fairly high, since there are other advantages to that.

It’s a lot easier to reduce drag than increase power!

Easier yes.   Cheaper no.

It’s free! I’m not talking about buying aero wheels or whatever. Those things are lost in the noise. I’m talking about the huge gain from getting comfortable in a lower riding position, so that you can hold it for extended periods at moderate speeds. Compare Jobst Brandt’s position here (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeremy_s_shaw/3554078615/) to his companions. Brandt was 74 years old in that photo. The two guys behind have a position typical of the 50+ year olds I see on the roads around Paris, except for brief moments of high exertion.

Aggressive aero positions reduce power output.

That’s what indoor training teaches you. Riding on the road teaches you that it’s almost always worth doing it anyway.

But “aggressive” is the wrong word if you’re using a rearward saddle position. It doesn’t feel aggressive but comfortable.

Just trying to make the point that riding faster in your 50s, like riding faster at any age, should usually start with better technique.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: DuncanM on 15 December, 2017, 01:38:33 pm
I'm not convinced that's especially true, if you are talking about riding a regular road bike for hours at a time (obviously if you are doing 10 mile TTs then it probably is).

I see it the other way around. Everyone doing TTs knows, because they’re told, that aerodynamics matter greatly. So they all try.

People doing long road rides often do not realise that most of their power is expended on drag and that aerodynamics are almost as important at these speeds. Therefore there is more low-hanging fruit for typical audax riders than typical TT riders.
You are right that there is lower hanging fruit (I assume that's where Rob's expensive comment comes in - after exhausting the low hanging fruit TTers spend huge money doing things like wind tunnel testing to improve aero). However, the reason why I was suggesting that 10 mile TTs are where aero matters most is because riders are prepared to pursue aero at the expense of comfort over a short ride, especially given it's a race. For a non-race lasting hours, comfort tends to be seen as more important than aero (and even the long distance TTers tend to adjust their position to become more comfortable).

The whole "sportive bike" sector has essentially come about because many people found that the position required by the equivalent racing bike cause them discomfort/pain on longer rides.

These machines are somewhat missing the point. They fix the discomfort by raising the front end when the more aerodynamic approach to comfort is to slacken the seat-tube angle, allowing hours-long comfort with a low back.
Of course you need to practice riding in the low position, but the required practice is not tremendous. A couple of hours a week suffices.

Besides, the handlebar position is only tenuously related to your riding position. My bars are fairly high, since there are other advantages to that.
Slackening the seat angle means a more set back position, right? Which means that to keep the same body angle you need to close the hip angle? For me, that closing of the hip hinge angle makes it significantly more uncomfortable to ride with a low back. My understanding was that closing the hip angle also means reduced power, hence why race bikes and TT bikes in particular have very steep seat angles.
A couple of hours a week on a bike with a low front end did not suffice for me - I rode a bike with low bars regularly for years and had neck and back pain for much of it. A change in bike offered a change in position, and now I'm more comfortable and can enjoy my riding pain free. When I was younger, I could ride that bike - sadly to regain the flexibility of youth would require a lot more time and dedication off the bike!
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: rob on 15 December, 2017, 02:15:02 pm
I rode a 400k Audax on my TT bike last year.   I've also done 12 and 24hr TTs, although walking was an issue after the 24.

Some riders have different positions depending on the distance, but I find that a bit of a faff and I am mechanically inept.   I, therefore, worked on a position that could be used for all distances.    I'm not as low as I probably could be but have concentrated on getting narrow.    My back is not great but better after a couple of winter's of pilates and general stretching.   Using this set up on the turbo means I have adapted over time.   Your body can adapt to more aero positions if you change a few mils at a time.

Getting the position right was not that expensive although I did end up buying a new frame.   I did use a professional bike fit.

Of course then I bought wheels/helmet/skinsuit/overshoes/aero mitts.    I have also just redesigned the whole cockpit to make it a bit neater.

I've just realized that, as I'm just about to turn 45, I probably shouldn't be commenting on this thread.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: DuncanM on 15 December, 2017, 02:24:06 pm
I've just realized that, as I'm just about to turn 45, I probably shouldn't be commenting on this thread.
I guess that applies to me as well (I'm slightly younger than you). Then again, getting faster is about a process, and I think we're both in that process (though you are way further along than I am).
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: sojournermike on 15 December, 2017, 02:42:31 pm
Somehow, we've turned this into a 'buying new kit' thread. I do have a set of 50mm carbon rims in the shed waiting for me to build them up. Perhaps I need a new frame to hold them?

Given I live in N Yorks, climbing ability is worth quite a lot though
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: DuncanM on 15 December, 2017, 03:08:59 pm
Somehow, we've turned this into a 'buying new kit' thread. I do have a set of 50mm carbon rims in the shed waiting for me to build them up. Perhaps I need a new frame to hold them?

Given I live in N Yorks, climbing ability is worth quite a lot though
Any thread has potential to become a buying new kit thread. :) And clearly you should get a lighter frame to offset the increase in wheel weight. ;)

Feels like the answer to the OP is that you can get more power if you do structured training, you can get more aero if you work on it, or you can just buy new kit! :)
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: rob on 15 December, 2017, 03:21:36 pm
I've just realised that, as I'm just about to turn 45, I probably shouldn't be commenting on this thread.
I guess that applies to me as well (I'm slightly younger than you). Then again, getting faster is about a process, and I think we're both in that process (though you are way further along than I am).

By far my biggest gains have been between 40 and 45.   There was a 58 minute difference between my first 100m TT in 2013 and my last one this Summer.   Whilst I have made gains through equipment and aero optimisation, I feel that the biggest gains have been through structured training.   By far the biggest leap was between 2016 and 2017 when I found a good coach.   I'm not entirely sure I can much faster next year and have adjusted my goals accordingly.

One of my biggest regrets, apart from ignoring the advice to buy Bitcoin, is that I think I wasted a lot of my 30s not really fulfilling my potential.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 15 December, 2017, 06:02:46 pm
Quote
One of my biggest regrets, apart from ignoring the advice to buy Bitcoin, is that I think I wasted a lot of my 30s not really fulfilling my potential.

I think this is something that many of us feel.  I am 59 and still improving but did virtually no exercise in my 30s.  It has often been said that you can have 2 out of 3 of family, career and hobby.  I would totally agree.  I love my job and would not change anything and have a wonderful family.  Sport whilst it keeps me sane has been a poor third for many years.  It is only with the empty nest and a wife embarking on her 3rd career that I can begin to look more at my hobbies.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: giropaul on 15 December, 2017, 06:40:06 pm
Quote
One of my biggest regrets, apart from ignoring the advice to buy Bitcoin, is that I think I wasted a lot of my 30s not really fulfilling my potential.

I think this is something that many of us feel.  I am 59 and still improving but did virtually no exercise in my 30s.  It has often been said that you can have 2 out of 3 of family, career and hobby.  I would totally agree.  I love my job and would not change anything and have a wonderful family.  Sport whilst it keeps me sane has been a poor third for many years.  It is only with the empty nest and a wife embarking on her 3rd career that I can begin to look more at my hobbies.

As a very successful pro cyclist once told me -“ you’re either good enough to make a good living at cycling or it’s only a hobby. There’s nothing in between” .
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 15 December, 2017, 08:18:27 pm
Some interesting points made about the importance of an aero position.

My actual reason for my training is to make my regular cycling easier, not especially faster. 

The advantages of "Aero" for Audaxing are dubious to say the least when it's possible to ride successfully at 15 km/hr. I can't say I saw many, of the thousands of riders I have seen, riding in the drops even.
Comfort was my only concern when I Audaxed, the 2nd thing on my list was a distant 2nd and it was more likely to be food-related than speed-related.
Clearly being "aero" matters more the faster you go and, at Pro speeds around 60km/hr, it matters as much as anything else (let's say 100Watts to cycle at 15km/hr would mean a huge 400Watts at 30km/hr and a superhuman 1600Watts at 60km/hr UNLESS you sorted out your aerodynamics.)
EDIT.  Wiggo required 475 Watts to ride at around 55Km/Hr and win the TT Worlds.  You don't get much more aero than Wiggo on a TT bike but 475Watts for an about an hour is still HUGE and beyond most mortals.  That sort of power in that much of an aero tuck are normally mutually exclusive.

My average speed, of my mainly social rides, hasn't really increased with my power, it just got easier (I rearranged the Lemond equation).  That was the goal, to shrink the hills.  It's nice that i can really dig in and put out some power if I want but I tend not to.  I leave all the pain in the WB studio.

I suppose that next summer I may try and target some of my regular Strava segments but, like Time-Trialling, equipment and conditions play a huge part in the results.  I have a faster road bike now, the wind may be on my back..etc.  Wattbike is the only accurate measure I have of my improvement (or not). 
An FTP test, resulting in a  Power:Weight metric,  is a perfect "Time Trial" in my opinion, it's independent of equipment or conditions.  A level playing field.

On that basis I have been beaten into 2nd place by a middle-aged woman with a P:W of 4W/Kg whereas, out on the road, on a typical TT, I know I would beat her with my power and body weight (especially on a windy day). 

I suppose the question should be: Do you want to go faster into your mid-50s or do you want to make cycling easier in your Mid-50s? 
If you just want to go faster then buy a Triathlon TT bike, some carbon disc wheels,  an aero helmet and a skin-suit.  They really do zip (Zipp?) along, scarily so. 
If you want to make it easier then do some structured, focussed, training and it will get easier out on the road.

Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: rob on 15 December, 2017, 08:26:54 pm
Agreed, Lee.

I haven't changed my audaxes steed very much.   Maybe lighter wheels.

However, 600s used to wipe me out.   This year I got round one in 34hrs with an 8hr break overnight.   My average riding speed for the same effort is much higher.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: dim on 15 December, 2017, 08:51:19 pm
I rode a 400k Audax on my TT bike last year.   I've also done 12 and 24hr TTs, although walking was an issue after the 24.

Some riders have different positions depending on the distance, but I find that a bit of a faff and I am mechanically inept.   I, therefore, worked on a position that could be used for all distances.    I'm not as low as I probably could be but have concentrated on getting narrow.    My back is not great but better after a couple of winter's of pilates and general stretching.   Using this set up on the turbo means I have adapted over time.   Your body can adapt to more aero positions if you change a few mils at a time.

Getting the position right was not that expensive although I did end up buying a new frame.   I did use a professional bike fit.

Of course then I bought wheels/helmet/skinsuit/overshoes/aero mitts.    I have also just redesigned the whole cockpit to make it a bit neater.

I've just realized that, as I'm just about to turn 45, I probably shouldn't be commenting on this thread.

I'm looking at buying another bike in the next few months .... this will be my 'fast' bike for quality rides and one that I will keep for a very long time

I had a very close look at a Scott Foil (used),  but after researching aero vs a lighteight climbing bike, I have decided to get a climbing bike

On the  rides that I do, it is always a loop and there is always wind and I think that I will be faster on a climbing bike for the loop .... the geometry is also more relaxed on a climbing bike so I can use it for long Audax rides with a few Apidura bags

So, I have decided to get a used Scott Addict with Dura Ace Di2 and I will upgrade the wheels to light tubeless ready rims and use fast tubeless tyres. Some guys on the weight Weenies forum say that their Scott Addicts weigh less than 6,5Kg with a few cheap upgrades

Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 14 March, 2018, 08:27:07 am
FYI

I just posted an FTP (Wattbike 20 minute test) of 293 Watts using a 20 min average of 309 Watts.

I started Wattbike in Feb 2016 and bumped it by 16% by Feb 2017.  Now I just bumped it again by another 10% in a year.  Obviously it's going to plateau, and each Watt will be hard won*, but it's nice to have evidence that it's not "game-over" in my mid-50s.

* FTP testing is so painful it's hard to describe.  Never does my body scream, "Please STOP", so loud.  If nothing else the mental strength to carry on to the end of the test is useful on real climbs.  It teaches you that 'there's always more toothpaste in the tube'.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: rdtrdt on 14 March, 2018, 01:50:39 pm
FYI

I just posted an FTP (Wattbike 20 minute test) of 293 Watts using a 20 min average of 309 Watts.

I started Wattbike in Feb 2016 and bumped it by 16% by Feb 2017.  Now I just bumped it again by another 10% in a year.  Obviously it's going to plateau, and each Watt will be hard won*, but it's nice to have evidence that it's not "game-over" in my mid-50s.

This is good stuff for me to hear.

I'm nearing my 50th birthday. Been laid off the bike for over 5 years, although other activities including periodic running meant fitness didn't entirely go out the window. 'Naturally' slim build so little gain to be had from weight loss. Began turbo training again in Oct-17 following my own plan, then switched to TrainerRoad (TR) a few weeks ago...

Began TR (Feb-18) with a test at 226w FTP, ~3.2w/kg.

Goal 1 is 3.5w/kg, being a ~9% increase from Feb-18. No good reason that isn't doable.

Goal 2 would be >3.7w/kg, being a further ~6% increase (or ~15% increase from today). We'll see about that, how the motivation fairs etc. Could be interesting. Beyond that is not something I'll bother wasting my brain on yet.

Having a mere "number" as a goal is probably a weakness of my plan, because although it's quantifiable, it's also fairly abstract in terms of the real world. Anchoring the goals to the real world would probably be beneficial...

In terms of real world cycling, I'm primarily interested in simply making it more enjoyable ("easier"), similar to what you've described up-thread. I like riding hills, which is a good job considering where I live, and if I can overtake some other people on those hills then that's always a bonus! Secondly, I'm going on a pootling cycling break late summer that has an option to nip up the Ventoux - so that's some motivation.

Beyond that, though, no other real-world goals. I used to ride a few low-key events, sportives, audaxes etc, so maybe if my plan proceeds in the right direction I might get a lip for some of that again letting me augment the above w/kg goals with more real-world stuff to help maintain the motivation.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: LEE on 19 March, 2018, 11:57:01 am
Having a mere "number" as a goal is probably a weakness of my plan, because although it's quantifiable, it's also fairly abstract in terms of the real world.

Not at all.  Power:weight has tangible real-world significance (as long as it's measured over a significant period, such as a 20 minute FTP test).

Having 3.2 W/Kg "on tap" for an hour, which is what the numbers are telling you, isn't abstract, it's damn useful.  It also means you're coasting at 150-180 Watts.

I notice the difference about 20 seconds into any climb with my old cycling chums.  For 20 seconds we tend to climb together, digging in to a hardish climb, then I suddenly find I'm talking to myself as the others run out of gas.

Stick with it.  You should find that, like me, your recovery, between hard intervals (on the Turbo or on the road) is improved no end.  My heart rate, after a hard interval, drops back to recovery very quickly now.  In the real-world that means I'm ready for the next hill whilst my buddies are still gasping from the last one.

I'd really like an FTP of 300W.  It's ONLY another 7 Watts but I know just how hard-earned they will be... so I may just have some cake instead.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: rdtrdt on 19 March, 2018, 08:55:41 pm
Stick with it.  You should find that, like me, your recovery, between hard intervals (on the Turbo or on the road) is improved no end.  My heart rate, after a hard interval, drops back to recovery very quickly now.  In the real-world that means I'm ready for the next hill whilst my buddies are still gasping from the last one.

I've been back on the turbo for nearly 6 months on & off and can tell I've made some reasonable progress - just that nothing was being measured until recently so no comparative numbers, and having now got some numbers it's got me more focused (motivated).

It's been very good to read the travails of others who've been at it for much longer and I've taken a good slug of encouragement from it. Just got to do the work now...
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: rdtrdt on 20 July, 2018, 10:17:44 am
Began TR (Feb-18) with a test at 226w FTP, ~3.2w/kg.

Goal 1 is 3.5w/kg, being a ~9% increase from Feb-18. No good reason that isn't doable.

Goal 2 would be >3.7w/kg, being a further ~6% increase (or ~15% increase from today). We'll see about that, how the motivation fairs etc. Could be interesting. Beyond that is not something I'll bother wasting my brain on yet.

Update from me:

In April I gained accurate power measurement, and I've been able to determine that my initial February FTP test was overstated by ~5%, making the true numbers back then 215w and <3.1w/kg.

I've done loads of cycling during this summer's good weather, interspersed with TR sessions every so often, and have made good fitness gains. And enjoyed it (well, much of it, not the gruelling TR sessions!). An FTP test in TR this week now has me up to 3.42 w/kg, a 10% improvement on Feb's number, so that's good. Almost at my stated "Goal 1" above...

Unfortunately, it's one step forward and one back, as it seems I need surgery for something so have to knock the training on the head for now and take it easy. Not sure yet when I'll be able to restart my punishment regime. Frustrating, but such is life. Could be worse.

The positive take away for me is that I was able to make material progress in my fitness, quantifiable both on my trainer setup and out on the road, so once I'm fixed up I'll hopefully be able to jump back in and do it all again - and more!
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 24 July, 2018, 01:08:06 pm
I've been reflecting on this one, as I set a PB for running a marathon last October (the 11th I'd run), on trails, some muddy, beating a best that was set on the road, at age 53.

There's two things I'd consider.  Firstly, my training regime changed - I was running at least a half marathon on trails every weekend, which was the most disciplined I'd ever been at running - which clearly had an adaptation benefit.  But a big part of this was simply having a better running technique - being better balanced on rough ground and more confident at sustaining speed over awkward terrain was a big part of time saving.  I think that can be applied to cycling as well - looking at cornering, descending, and keeping momentum through those 5 - 20m dips that are so common on British roads.  That's not about more power but applying what power you have better.

Secondly, my first half marathon was run at the tender age of 47, so I didn't have any youthful bests to get in the way of setting a new PB.  I've not been able to achieve the same in cycling where my TT PBs were set in my mid 40s, about 10 years after taking up cycling seriously.  That's because I'd got close to my potential (or at least what could practically be achieved whilst remaining employed and married) at that point and since then the gradual decline of age (particularly maximum heart rate) got in the way of getting fast.  I'm just trying to slow down as little as possible.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: rob on 24 July, 2018, 09:21:13 pm
Although I’m not yet in my 50s my experiences may be useful. 

I don’t do power but I returned to time trialling at the age of 40 and in the last few years have taken my 50 PB from 2:25 to 1:47 and my 100 PB from 4:58 to 3:47.  The biggest gains have been in the last 2 years when I started working with a coach.

Some of this has been down to improved aerodynamics and better kit, but there has been a lot of hours involved.   I still think there’s more to be gained as I was beaten by another forum member, who I know to be older than me, in both of those rides.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Pedal Castro on 27 December, 2018, 08:36:18 am
I am now 55 and started riding again about three years ago after a 22 year layoff. When I started again I told Mrs PC I wouldn't race again but stick with my first love of touring. It wasn't long after my first tour (to Cuba) that I stumbled into audax, then last year I did a handful of TTs. On no speed training, only miles, I didn't embarrass myself but I wasn't as fast as I was in 1990.

I have now started training properly and my targets are PBs at all TT distances and the club 12h record. I am assuming that aging can be overcome by training, because I didn't take it that seriously when I was younger :-)


Third PB of the year yesterday when I did 2:05:04 in the VTTA 50 which followed last week's first sub hour 25. So far so good, riding the F11/10 next weekend so may crack my 1989 10 mile PB too 😀

Another year older and still getting faster! I did take 2" off my 1989 10 time in 2016 and another 2'40" off in 2017. This last season only saw a pb in the 100 although I could have also improved 50 and 12h had it not been for punctures.

Now I've retired I should get faster but I suspect I may start to avoid the busy roads and ride slower courses.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: sojournermike on 27 December, 2018, 01:54:15 pm
Surely depends how fast you were when you were younger. I fear my 800m and 5knrunning times - we’ll all of the really - are long gone. On the bike, not so much.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Frank9755 on 09 January, 2019, 11:22:05 am
Just read this thread right through.  Some inspiring stories!

I'm 51 and have lost a lot of power in the last couple of years, mostly because I've cycled far less since we had a baby and with heart surgery interrupting things last year.  Let's see what I can do to get some of it back.  Clearly, intensity rather than big miles is what is going to do it, if anything is.
 
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Oxford_Guy on 18 January, 2019, 09:57:21 am
I'm 49 and have gained some power in the last year, but that's from a low base and because it's only in the last year I've really been trying harder - joined a local cycling club, have been doing structured spinning classes over winter etc.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: rogerzilla on 18 January, 2019, 09:53:34 pm
If you can bear it, a turbo trainer speeds you up in less time than anything else because it's relentless.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Oxford_Guy on 21 January, 2019, 10:24:26 am
If you can bear it, a turbo trainer speeds you up in less time than anything else because it's relentless.

I'm not averse to the idea, am getting on okay with the spinning classes, which I imagine are not so different. Can anyone point me towards some recommendations for a mid-price trainer unit? Must work with both Shimano and Campagnolo drivetrains and be able to cope with long derailleurs.

EDIT: have started to look at this guide: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2018/11/trainer-buyers-recommendations-guide.html
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: zigzag on 21 January, 2019, 05:13:53 pm
kickr core, elite direto, tacx flux s /flux 2 - all decent trainers that don't cost a lot and do the job.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Oxford_Guy on 21 January, 2019, 05:29:46 pm
kickr core, elite direto, tacx flux s /flux 2 - all decent trainers that don't cost a lot and do the job.

Thanks, though AFAIK the current generation of Wahoo KICKR trainers do not support their Campagnolo adapter, only the older models do. Not such an issue I guess if running 11-speed, as think a Shimano 11-speed cassette has the same spacing as an 11-speed Campagnolo one, but I want to be able to use it with a 10 speed Campagnolo setup....

From reading reports on the interweb, sounds like the original Tacx Flux and even Flux S have had lot's of reliability issues, though sounds like the Flux 2 may be better in that regard.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Phil W on 21 January, 2019, 06:01:26 pm
If you can bear it, a turbo trainer speeds you up in less time than anything else because it's relentless.

I'm not averse to the idea, am getting on okay with the spinning classes, which I imagine are not so different. Can anyone point me towards some recommendations for a mid-price trainer unit? Must work with both Shimano and Campagnolo drivetrains and be able to cope with long derailleurs.

EDIT: have started to look at this guide: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2018/11/trainer-buyers-recommendations-guide.html

If you do not go for a direct drive turbo then pretty much any unit will be compatible.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Oxford_Guy on 21 January, 2019, 06:10:08 pm
If you can bear it, a turbo trainer speeds you up in less time than anything else because it's relentless.

I'm not averse to the idea, am getting on okay with the spinning classes, which I imagine are not so different. Can anyone point me towards some recommendations for a mid-price trainer unit? Must work with both Shimano and Campagnolo drivetrains and be able to cope with long derailleurs.

EDIT: have started to look at this guide: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2018/11/trainer-buyers-recommendations-guide.html

If you do not go for a direct drive turbo then pretty much any unit will be compatible.

Good point, and maybe it would be a better idea not to pile it for a high end model for my first trainer, in case I end up not liking it enough.

For the wheel-on trainers, is the Wahoo Kickr Snap any good? I've been very happy with my Wahoo Elemnt Bolt / TICKR / Cadence sensor (don't have the RPM one)
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Phil W on 21 January, 2019, 06:13:18 pm
Don't know.  I have a Tacx Bushido smart trainer which does not need plugging in.  So I usually use it out on the patio where it is nice and cold.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: DuncanM on 21 January, 2019, 08:16:04 pm
I just moved to a Bushido Smart. If you want to borrow my old Tacx Booster (wheel on dumb trainer, set the resistance and use the gears to adjust your power) to see how you like riding on a trainer then you'd be welcome. I suspect it would be easy to arrange - I live in Oxford and work in Didcot. PM me if you're interested in this idea.

Also, if anyone on this thread wants a referral to Trainer Road then PM me your email and I'll send you one (it needs to be an email that hasn't belonged to Trainer Road before).
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 26 February, 2019, 07:07:14 pm
I might have been pushing it a bit.

Went back into the cycle commute, only 10 flat miles each way, but I'm not used to it. Added kayak training (8x900m sprints) on Monday. 10km TT on Thursday (30s off my best time and best time was riding the wash of some faster people for part of the distance). Sat rode in again and did 22km at a slower pace (well, first 5km was at good speed, then I slowed down).

Sunday I collapsed. Food gave me a massive stomach ache. Slept half the afternoon. Couldn't cope with riding in to work, worked from home.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Greenbank on 17 June, 2019, 01:09:50 pm
Did my first spinning class today at local leisure centre. They have stages bikes but didn't realise there was an app I could download for it, and also didn't bother trying to pair my Garmin Forerunner 935 with the bike, will try and remember to do both next time. ([EDIT] Failed to get it working in time after being given some duff information by one of the other participants, have researched it properly now so will try next week.)

Was fun having someone shout motivation at me.  Attemping to hold 350W for 90 second intervals was not fun.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 01 July, 2019, 05:09:08 pm
I'm definitely faster now than I was when I was 20.

It isn't the kit - I'm paddling a boat that is probably 25years old and isn't as good as the one I had when I was 20. I have a better paddle now, though.

However, I'm faster now. Back when I was 20, I thought I was doing really, really well if I could do 10km (in deep water) in an hour. 10kph  is the kayaker's 'evens'.  In deep water, I can do better than that.

In Feb I wrote about a week that destroyed me. Hmm - last week I did a 6.8km 'club race', 9km 'easy', 12 x 2m intervals one night, 4 interval pyramids (covering 11km). Paddled level with some of the faster people in the club. Oh, and cycled in/out of cam (20mile round trip) 7 days a week. Not wrecked or tired out. 

Yes you can get faster in your 50s.

Only thing is, I'm still losing weight. Eat as much as I can, but still getting skinnier.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Greenbank on 10 July, 2019, 06:35:16 pm
Have done 4 spin classes now, only got data from 2 so no idea whether progress is being made, lots of confusing factors anyway as I'm ramping up swimming training which is just making me feel tired until I adapt.

Looking at my old power data in Golden Cheetah I'm a long way off where I could be, but that means I should get to make good progress.

Have just rejigged by membership at the local council run leisure centre, was paying £32/month for swim membership but have bumped it up to £35/month which includes swimming as before, and unlimited gym usage and unlimited classes (such as the spin classes I was paying £8.50 for each). Bargain.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Greenbank on 10 July, 2019, 07:32:17 pm
I'm definitely faster now than I was when I was 20.

I'm not, and I'll never be that fast again.

I was stupidly fit up to the age of 18. Weighed 2/3 of what I do now. Barely drank. Cycled or ran absolutely everywhere. Played football for hours every day. Swam several times a week, etc.

I then embraced the independence that University gave and collected a boatload of vices (almost all unhealthy of course) and stopped doing all but a few bits of exercise.

Approaching mid-40s I can definitely be faster than I ever was in my 20s/30s/40s though, but that's a very low bar to measure myself against.

By 45 I hope to bring my marathon time down from 5h07 to sub 4h. Sub 22min 5k from a PB of 24:30. I should get my 400m freestyle time down from 7m30 to under 5m45 although I'll be mainly training for distance rather than speed. 3 laps of RP down from 1h20 to well under 1h (which is evens). FTP up from 2.2W/kg to 4W/kg. Then again, I've had these (or similar) goals for the last 5 years and have yet to achieve them. Maybe regular spin classes are exactly what I need to poke my brain into doing more than 'just enough'.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: DuncanM on 10 July, 2019, 08:07:19 pm
I'm definitely faster now than I was when I was 20.

I'm not, and I'll never be that fast again.

Likewise.  Though I only rode bikes for enjoyment and didn't race then. :'( I just played football and american football.
Screwing up my knee in my mid 20s was when I started losing that fitness, and then my 30s I was busy with work and family. Now I've got free time I can't do the volume I did when I was younger, and I break much more easily. However, I have much more discipline, understanding, and technology now, so hopefully I can get pretty close to it over time.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Greenbank on 10 July, 2019, 08:24:06 pm
Screwing up my knee in my mid 20s was when I started losing that fitness, and then my 30s I was busy with work and family. Now I've got free time I can't do the volume I did when I was younger, and I break much more easily. However, I have much more discipline, understanding, and technology now, so hopefully I can get pretty close to it over time.

Motivation is an interesting one. I can motivate myself enough to do the minimal training required to get through whatever it is I want to do (Audaxes such as PBP/LEL, marathons or long swims) but I can never motivate myself to push myself to do the events as well as I probably could. Family does take up a chunk of time, but I've got one whole 9am-3pm day to myself whilst my daughter is at school, and there's no reason why I can't get back into the habit of filling that with a good solid set of training.

My plan is to use the spin classes (where there's someone there encouraging you to keep going and to push through) to help to get my CV fitness up (along with the usual swimming, cycling, running and 5-a-side) and then once I'm up to a reasonable level of fitness I'll get an triathlon coach (online) that will create a training plan to fit in with my lifestyle (family, children, holidays, etc) and keep me progressing. I know that if I have to email someone the FIT files from my Garmin each week I'll be much less likely to sack off the sessions with some random excuse.

It'll all change again in a couple of years when MiniGB starts secondary school...
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: simonp on 11 July, 2019, 11:27:53 am
I don't think I will get to 4W/kg. I am currently knocking on the door of 3. I'm doing a VO2max/gas exchange test next week which will hopefully show >3W/kg. I'm going to say my threshold will be in the 240-260W window (with 20W steps on the ramp).

The last time I had this test I was in the 260-280 bracket.

Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: DuncanM on 11 July, 2019, 01:11:47 pm
I reckon for most of us who are training a reasonable amount, boosting W/kg is easier done by losing weight than by gaining power. I'm around 250W, the highest I've ever measured was 261 last year, but at 78kg that leaves me at 3.2 W/kg. I reckon if I tried really hard to lose weight, I could get to 70kg, and that would be above 3.5 W/kg, with the magic 4 only 30W away. At my current weight that would need another 60W!

I don't think I have enough motivation or enthusiasm to make it that far. I'm with Greenbank - I can train enough to be OK, but going the extra mile with either diet or training to actually be good is just too much.
When I was in my 20s I naturally settled a bit under 70kg. For American football I worked so hard to put on weight, and managed a couple of kg - if I stopped lifting it just fell off again. That would be so nice now! ::-)
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 28 August, 2019, 01:43:19 pm
I've just had my work-dictated annual health check (mandated for over-50s).

Results were good. Cholesterol overall result in the 'green' for the first time in many years. V02Max now measured to be 45 (sadly couldn't be compared to last year as they changed measuring method). It is measured on a Watt bike. FTP was pathetic 193, but I wouldn't expect it to be high, since I don't train my legs, and they stopped the test as soon as I said my legs felt any strain at all! I was only just getting out of breath and heart rate steady at 157 - it hadn't been going up.

Body fat (measured by electrodes) down to 15% from 18%. Weight down to 72.4 from 75kg.

That isn't so good, actually. I haven't gained muscle mass, despite the training. I've lost fat, that is all.

As fast as I am building muscle, I'm burning it, and fat. Just can't pack in enough calories to keep up.

Resulting recommendation was

"Use an app to track food intake, don't lose any more weight. You are catabolic, you are burning your own body for fuel."

I already consume protein shakes. Going to have to try adding something to the shakes to up the calories.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Greenbank on 30 September, 2019, 03:49:38 pm
I don't think I have enough motivation or enthusiasm to make it that far. I'm with Greenbank - I can train enough to be OK, but going the extra mile with either diet or training to actually be good is just too much.

I'm enjoy the spin class once a week, it really does push me to places I don't usually go when on a bike. (Aiming to hold 400W for 1 minute today was particularly hideous, I caved at 55s).

Plans are (slowly) afoot for a turbo set up at home. I've just moved my daughter into a bigger room and so the smaller room is back to being my office. There's just enough space to use a turbo in there next to my computer (for using Trainerroad/Zwift nonsense) and the store the turbo under the desk and the bike on some hooks on the wall.

The room is also above the hall of the flat downstairs (I'm in a 1st floor flat) so noise should be less of a problem. I have an old turbo I was going to set up and see if the noise is a problem for my downstairs neighbour (we get on well and he'll give me a straightforward answer) and I wouldn't be using it at a time where his family is likely to be sleeping.

So I'll plan on selling the Aravis and the Colnago and getting a TT bike (Planet-X Stealth TT probably) which is part of longer term plan[1] anyway.

Anyone used a Tacx Vortex or Bushido for Trainerroad/Zwift? (Wiggle have the Vortex for 47% off at just £199.99 at the moment. Ah, it's not in stock, but the Bushido is at £275)

1. n=4: Commuter, Carbon road bike, fixed, TT bike with the latter being used for Triathlons
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Chris S on 30 September, 2019, 05:20:33 pm
Yeah, I had a Tacx Vortex on both TR and Zwift. It's a wheel-on trainer, so you have to fiddle about getting the tension right to avoid wheel slip; Tacx do a trainer specific tyre and although I never bothered with one, I've heard good things about them. You have to calibrate it reasonably frequently if you're interested in reasonable accuracy, keep the tyre pressure consistent, and in use - don't trust any power readings for the first 10 minutes while it all gets up to temperature.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Greenbank on 30 September, 2019, 08:05:33 pm
Tacx do a trainer specific tyre and although I never bothered with one, I've heard good things about them.

DC Rainmaker says there's no point with them. He uses his trainers a lot more than I plan on doing so and copes fine without.

I've realised I've got some PowerTap hubs (fixed and geared) so I can give TR/Zwift a try just using those and the manual non-smart wheel-on trainer I've got lying around and then see if an upgrade to a smart trainer would be useful.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: DuncanM on 01 October, 2019, 09:31:25 am
I use a Bushido Smart, and it's fine, but it's not super. It's not as smooth as a dumb trainer with a big flywheel, so it's not as natural a pedalling motion. I use "power match" where TR uses the power from my pedals to make sure I'm on target, and adjusts the trainer to fit the data from them.

You don't even need a powertap hub to do TR - they have a thing called "Virtual Power" where they use a calibration graph for your turbo and a speed sensor. Obviously the numbers are only any good internally, but so long as you keep the tyre pressure consistent, you can get decent results in terms of improving fitness.

I've realised I've got some PowerTap hubs (fixed and geared) so I can give TR/Zwift a try just using those and the manual non-smart wheel-on trainer I've got lying around and then see if an upgrade to a smart trainer would be useful.
Would you like a trainer road referral code (it gets you a free month)? If you PM me an email (that's not been used with TR before), I'll send you a code.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Pedal Castro on 01 October, 2019, 11:38:32 am
I used virtual power and TrainerRoad for two winters and it was just as good as my Direto smart trainer with regard to power display and consistency. The smart trainer is better if you want it to alter the resistance for you automatically.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: Greenbank on 01 October, 2019, 12:56:22 pm
I use a Bushido Smart, and it's fine, but it's not super. It's not as smooth as a dumb trainer with a big flywheel, so it's not as natural a pedalling motion. I use "power match" where TR uses the power from my pedals to make sure I'm on target, and adjusts the trainer to fit the data from them.

PowerMatch is going to be useful if I get the smart trainer. My main requirements are:-
a) to have reasonably accurate/consistent power readings and using a PowerTap hub sorts that out
b) to have the trainer adjust the resistance for me so I don't have to do this manually when doing various training programmes (less important as I can see how I get along with manual adjustment using the dumb trainer)

Would you like a trainer road referral code (it gets you a free month)? If you PM me an email (that's not been used with TR before), I'll send you a code.

Not quite ready yet, waiting for the training mat to be delivered and then have to faff with getting the trainer setup and a bike up indoors and that might take a bit. Will let you know.
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: DuncanM on 01 October, 2019, 01:28:45 pm
If you're running wheel on, adjusting resistance is best done by changing gear (I guess if you don't have gears then you might have to mess with the trainer settings). This isn't too bad - combined with a power meter for accurate measurement you are almost there, and you don't have to worry about spindown calibration or tyre pressure or that other stuff. The only thing you can't do with this setup is put it fully automatic and watch a movie or whatever. I can't only do that for the aerobic base rides anyway - anything Tempo or above I need to focus.
Ping me when you want that referral code. :)
Title: Re: Getting faster when getting into mid 50s ? A dream or a possibility
Post by: basset on 16 October, 2019, 09:04:14 am
If you are going to buy a new trainer at some stage I would wait till you can afford a wheel off design one they are much less hassle the a std wheel on design.
My kickr is now on its 3rd winter and is miles better than what I had before.
Use your old setup with the powertap (I did similar for two years) then look for something heavily discounted or secondhand next summer.