Author Topic: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.  (Read 1623 times)


Beardy

  • Shedist
Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #1 on: 26 July, 2023, 08:45:34 pm »
I don’t think there’s any real doubt that he DID do it, but in respect of the power dynamics and consent he was absolved of any wrong doing.
For every complex problem in the world, there is a simple and easily understood solution that’s wrong.

Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #2 on: 26 July, 2023, 08:54:29 pm »
https://youtu.be/LPafNZkpX9M

This is from years ago. I don't think this sketch was written without inside knowledge.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #3 on: 26 July, 2023, 08:55:23 pm »
He wasn’t “absolved”, he was found not guilty. It’s inconclusive either way.

I was once a juror on a child sex abuse case. It’s difficult and complex and whatever your gut feelings, you have to give a verdict based on the available evidence, which may not be clear cut for many reasons.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Beardy

  • Shedist
Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #4 on: 26 July, 2023, 09:06:19 pm »
This, like many sexual assault cases, boiled down to a he said, he said argument. And like many sexual assault cases, the verdict comes down to how the jurors interpreted the evidence they were presented. As you say, the jurors will be instructed to follow the evidence, but in many cases of this nature, that amounts to personal testimonies of the individuals concerned, and I think, though IANAL character witnesses.

Using the word absolved was perhaps sloppy language on my part, he’s been found not guilty of the charges based on the accusations made. Which in most peoples minds clears him of any wrong doing. As I said earlier though, there will have been an unbalanced power dynamic at play and thus consent will, in the heat of the moment, likely to have been a bit ‘frilly around the edges’
For every complex problem in the world, there is a simple and easily understood solution that’s wrong.

Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #5 on: 27 July, 2023, 07:42:15 am »
Did anyone else see the footage of Spacey leaving court?

https://youtu.be/D5k73jx2mIc

Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #6 on: 27 July, 2023, 08:01:20 am »
"command rape"

It's a military term, but applies whenever there is a major power imbalance.

Powerful person says "do this", less powerful person agrees. Technically, consent was obtained. Not guilty of rape.

It is why we frown on things like teacher/pupil relationships.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #7 on: 27 July, 2023, 08:48:08 am »
It doesn't matter whether he was guilty or not, such accusations always destroy the target.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #8 on: 27 July, 2023, 08:56:30 am »
So, time for a civil case with lower burden of proof?

And yes, look at Paul Gambaccini, and he was never prosecuted.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #9 on: 27 July, 2023, 09:05:11 am »
As you say, the jurors will be instructed to follow the evidence, but in many cases of this nature, that amounts to personal testimonies of the individuals concerned

This much is obvious but it’s a disinterested assessment. My point is that in practice this is even more difficult than you can imagine unless you’ve had to do it - I found the experience emotionally draining, to put it mildly.

I don’t think you could use character witnesses in a sexual abuse case, for all sorts of reasons. The evidence has to be directly relevant to the case being heard. In the case I served on, there was stuff that came out after the verdicts were given (there were 12 charges, we found him guilty on four of them, iirc) that I’m sure would have materially influenced the thinking of me and my fellow jurors - the defendant’s lawyer brought it up because it was germane to sentencing (though the actual sentencing happened later) but couldn’t have used it in the trial itself. That was the aspect of the experience I found hardest to deal with emotionally.

So there may well be a lot of stuff people “know” about Kevin Spacey that wasn’t used as evidence in this case. For very good reasons.

But like I said, the verdict is inconclusive. All we’re left with is speciation.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #10 on: 27 July, 2023, 09:08:18 am »
Did anyone else see the footage of Spacey leaving court?

https://youtu.be/D5k73jx2mIc
I shouldn’t laugh but… ;D
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #11 on: 27 July, 2023, 09:33:52 am »
Did anyone else see the footage of Spacey leaving court?

https://youtu.be/D5k73jx2mIc
I shouldn’t laugh but… ;D

The annoying thing is that Spacey literally owned several of the greatest films of the late 90s onwards. But it's a little hard to watch them now knowing that in some cases he wasn't actually acting

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #12 on: 27 July, 2023, 09:59:07 am »
I'm with Judi Dench: "I hope this doesn't mean we'll be deprived of all his wonderful acting".  We will, though.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

redshift

  • High Priestess of wires
    • redshift home
Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #13 on: 27 July, 2023, 11:07:04 am »
Did anyone else see the footage of Spacey leaving court?

https://youtu.be/D5k73jx2mIc
I shouldn’t laugh but… ;D

The annoying thing is that Spacey literally owned several of the greatest films of the late 90s onwards. But it's a little hard to watch them now knowing that in some cases he wasn't actually acting

Well, the current trend seems to be that you're not allowed to act outwith the parameters by which you live, so that's ok then.
L
:)
Windcheetah No. 176
The all-round entertainer gets quite arsey,
They won't translate his lame shit into Farsi
Somehow to let it go would be more classy…

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #14 on: 27 July, 2023, 11:19:21 am »
I'm with Judi Dench: "I hope this doesn't mean we'll be deprived of all his wonderful acting".  We will, though.

Maybe not permanently...

I saw a plug on the BBC recently for The Thick of It, which said that *all* series are available on iPlayer. I checked and yes, they really do mean *all* series (the first two series weren't available for a while after Chris Langham's fall from grace).
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #15 on: 27 July, 2023, 11:46:57 am »
Did anyone else see the footage of Spacey leaving court?

https://youtu.be/D5k73jx2mIc
I shouldn’t laugh but… ;D

The annoying thing is that Spacey literally owned several of the greatest films of the late 90s onwards. But it's a little hard to watch them now knowing that in some cases he wasn't actually acting

Well, the current trend seems to be that you're not allowed to act outwith the parameters by which you live, so that's ok then.

Perhaps all Spacey is guilty of is taking method acting a little too far.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #16 on: 27 July, 2023, 12:58:47 pm »
Pete Townshend seems to have recovered from that unfortunate case around his dubious browser history.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

ian

Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #17 on: 27 July, 2023, 07:13:16 pm »
Many rock stars of a certain vintage seem to have gotten away with some less than salubrious dalliances with the unsuitably youthful.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #18 on: 28 July, 2023, 09:29:26 am »
I'm amazed Jimmy Page has never been Yewtreed.  I suppose the well-documented stuff (Lori Maddox, etc) took place overseas, and that may not have been illegal under UK law then.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #19 on: 28 July, 2023, 10:07:54 am »
Many rock stars of a certain vintage seem to have gotten away with some less than salubrious dalliances with the unsuitably youthful.

ITYM "are still getting away with"
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Kevin Spacey didn’t do it.
« Reply #20 on: 29 July, 2023, 03:43:54 pm »
Many rock stars of a certain vintage seem to have gotten away with some less than salubrious dalliances with the unsuitably youthful.

They seemed to think they were royalty and could do as they pleased.
Move Faster and Bake Things