Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => GPS => Topic started by: Oxford_Guy on May 08, 2017, 08:31:54 am

Title: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Oxford_Guy on May 08, 2017, 08:31:54 am
[I posted this elsewhere, within another thread, but thought this deserves it's own thread]

There's an interesting first look at the Hammerhead Karoo on the excellent DCRainmaker site:

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/05/hammerhead-karoo-gps-bike-computer.html

One great thing to note - it's compatible with Garmin mounts :-)

It seems to imply maps are cached, rather than built into the unit - this is a worry, unless you can cache a large area AND specify that area precisely and ask it not to overwrite that cache until you want to

It has 3G connectivity, I hope that doesn't mean you need to have a (separate from your phone paid data plan to use it)

Screen sounds good

Performance (no lag) sounds excellent

I think it's likely to cost *much* more than DC Rainmaker suggests, but I'm still interested.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Kim on May 08, 2017, 09:33:18 am
So they've made a smartphone that's sensible (shape, bracket, ruggedness, battery capacity) to mount on a bike.

Seems like a good idea.  If they allow the installation (even by sideloading) of arbitrary apps I can see it being popular as a platform for delivery riders.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: igauk on May 12, 2017, 11:52:08 am
The review says maps can be downloaded via WiFi so no need to rely on phone signal and caching.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Oxford_Guy on May 12, 2017, 12:04:30 pm
The review says maps can be downloaded via WiFi so no need to rely on phone signal and caching.

Hopefully will have enough storage (or better, accept microSD cards for storage) to download maps for at least 2 whole large European countries
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Oxford_Guy on May 12, 2017, 12:08:07 pm
The review says maps can be downloaded via WiFi so no need to rely on phone signal and caching.

Hopefully will have enough storage (or better, accept microSD cards for storage) to download maps for at least 2 whole large European countries

I read the tech specs, it has 16Gb of internal storage (no microSD card slot by the sound of it), but they say that this is enough to store their entire worldwide map, a full suit of apps and lots of ride data, which sounds good: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mprufleychk5rtz/AAA8NK-USrw42wpwc_Ch98KYa/Karoo%20Features%20%26%20Specs?dl=0&preview=HammerheadKaroo_TechnicalSpecification_Spring2017.pdf
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: igauk on May 12, 2017, 11:31:45 pm
I've signed up to their mailing list so we'll see how it pans out. Certainly on paper it ticks the right boxes for me, but proof of the pudding and all that. When they say its been developed and tested by cylists I bet none of it involves four days continuous running, charging from a dynamo and the operator being cold, tired, wet, hungry and the screen covered in dried energy drink and snot...maybe I should volunteer as a beta tester!
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Oxford_Guy on May 31, 2017, 10:24:42 pm
Interesting, for the next 5 days they're offering special pre-order pricing at $299, which is less than I thought it would be. Normal pre-order pricing will be $399, $499 final retail

I have a link for the special pre-order pricing, PM me if interested.

Am tempted to pre-order one...
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: TigaSefi on May 31, 2017, 11:11:36 pm
Jesus that's a tempting price
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Oxford_Guy on May 31, 2017, 11:18:15 pm
Jesus that's a tempting price

Isn't it? Though need to factor in a likely +20% for VAT and £8 customs fee. Still pretty good for the spec, though, I think.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Horizon on June 03, 2017, 09:14:06 am
Jesus that's a tempting price

Isn't it? Though need to factor in a likely +20% for VAT and £8 customs fee. Still pretty good for the spec, though, I think.
Plus import duty and then vat on the import duty, I make it about £295 plus the revenue collection fee, which will depend on who delivers it. I've asked them about shipping via Amazon UK but haven't had a reply. The problem with buying direct from the USA is the tedium of having to deal with a return.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Oxford_Guy on June 03, 2017, 02:27:40 pm
Jesus that's a tempting price

Isn't it? Though need to factor in a likely +20% for VAT and £8 customs fee. Still pretty good for the spec, though, I think.
Plus import duty and then vat on the import duty, I make it about £295 plus the revenue collection fee, which will depend on who delivers it. I've asked them about shipping via Amazon UK but haven't had a reply. The problem with buying direct from the USA is the tedium of having to deal with a return.

Still cheaper than the Garmin 1000 and looks loads better, though
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: dim on June 03, 2017, 07:54:20 pm
what does the Hammerhead offer that the Garmin Edge 1000 cannot do?
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: TigaSefi on June 03, 2017, 09:18:14 pm
A fully functional computer
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: dim on June 04, 2017, 06:52:48 pm
A fully functional computer

speculation at this stage .... not been properly tested and people don't even know what it's going to cost  :P

and saying that, I'm very pleased with my Edge 1000 .... I'm using version 12.20 software and it's working like a dream with no problems. You need to know how to set the unit up and what to enable/disable. Those who still have problems using v12.20 software have most probably not set it up properly

I have the heartstrap, cadence sensor, speed sensor, Garmin varia radar unit, and the remote control button

battery life seems ok (I have done a few 7hr rides), but if I need to charge the unit on longer rides, I have a powerbank. I doubt that the Hammerhead will offer as many features as the Edge 1000.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Oxford_Guy on June 04, 2017, 08:22:22 pm
A fully functional computer

speculation at this stage .... not been properly tested and people don't even know what it's going to cost  :P

and saying that, I'm very pleased with my Edge 1000 .... I'm using version 12.20 software and it's working like a dream with no problems. You need to know how to set the unit up and what to enable/disable. Those who still have problems using v12.20 software have most probably not set it up properly

I have the heartstrap, cadence sensor, speed sensor, Garmin varia radar unit, and the remote control button

battery life seems ok (I have done a few 7hr rides), but if I need to charge the unit on longer rides, I have a powerbank. I doubt that the Hammerhead will offer as many features as the Edge 1000.

They've stated the cost:

$299 for early adopters, $499 on full release
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: dim on June 04, 2017, 09:21:43 pm
A fully functional computer

speculation at this stage .... not been properly tested and people don't even know what it's going to cost  :P

and saying that, I'm very pleased with my Edge 1000 .... I'm using version 12.20 software and it's working like a dream with no problems. You need to know how to set the unit up and what to enable/disable. Those who still have problems using v12.20 software have most probably not set it up properly

I have the heartstrap, cadence sensor, speed sensor, Garmin varia radar unit, and the remote control button

battery life seems ok (I have done a few 7hr rides), but if I need to charge the unit on longer rides, I have a powerbank. I doubt that the Hammerhead will offer as many features as the Edge 1000.

They've stated the cost:

$299 for early adopters, $499 on full release

£250-£275 gets you a used Garmin Edge 1000 off ebay in good condition (if you are patient).... I bought my Garmin Edge 1000 with all accesories (excluding the radar unit and the remote control) for £275 off a member from this site

well worth the money.... a few bugs on the earlier versions of software but those have been sorted out now .... still a slight glitch (sometimes), and that is when you get to some intersections/turns, it still assumes that you are a few meters away, so you are not sure which way to turn. That is because I normally have Glosnass switched off, and the unit works on other satelites .... (I think it's the same ones that mobile phones use)

set it up properly (use this link http://www.forgot.co.uk/garmin-edge-navigation/garmin-edge-1000/

but also read all the comments,

and also check the garmin forum: https://forums.garmin.com/forumdisplay.php?464-Edge-1000

get the remote control, and you have no problems at all in the rain when it comes to switching screens (press a button, and it's instant)

Glossnass updates the unit every few seconds, but uses more battery power (that's what I read and assume is correct, so I have switched mine off)

on todays ride of 140km, I had a few instances where this occured, so I switched Glossnass back on, and problem solved


in a nutshell, if I lost my edge 1000, or if it had to break, I would buy another one without hesitation, even if I had to pay full price ....

linked to the radar unit, it makes cycling an absolute pleasure  8)


Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: JulesP on June 16, 2017, 04:13:55 pm
I just got a pre-sale invitation through for a Karoo – $299 (will be $499). I'm sorely tempted after the usual Garmin troubles, but the 'guarantee' has put me off:

   "365 +1 day money back guarantee applies to units returned unopened and undamaged in their original packaging"

Never mind the length – look at the "unopened"... 

Is anyone else risking it?
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: igauk on June 20, 2017, 01:27:04 am

Is anyone else risking it?
I was tempted at $299 (realistically £300 once VAT, duties etc. added in) but couldn't afford to take the risk on a largely untried (with real world users) device. It wouldn't arrived in time for LEL either so sticking with my basic bike computer and phone for following a track (still haven't decided between RWGPS and OSMand). This time next year I might take the plunge.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: psyclist on December 11, 2017, 07:56:10 pm
I just got a pre-sale invitation through for a Karoo – $299 (will be $499). I'm sorely tempted after the usual Garmin troubles, but the 'guarantee' has put me off:

   "365 +1 day money back guarantee applies to units returned unopened and undamaged in their original packaging"

Never mind the length – look at the "unopened"... 

Is anyone else risking it?

The guarantee has changed, and is now as follows: "Hammerhead offers a 45-day satisfaction guarantee. You may return your Hammerhead product within 45 days of delivery if you are, for any reason, not satisfied with your purchase." You would be liable for postage costs to return the device.

There are some more product videos at https://hammerhead.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=4f879dd730bedad08494dc4c2&id=12ce0be2d5&e=e3efea49df (https://hammerhead.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=4f879dd730bedad08494dc4c2&id=12ce0be2d5&e=e3efea49df). Hopefully routes can be transferred to the device using a cable and not just via the airways, as that looked painfully slow in the video.

The first units will be received by customers this month, given that shipping started in November. I'm interested in hearing how the Karoo behaves in the real world, and if the mapping tools are as cycling specific and user friendly as attempted to be portrayed in the videos.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: StuAff on December 17, 2017, 10:38:02 pm
First units have arrived in owners' hands. https://www.johnsedlak.com/2017/12/preview-hammerhead-karoo/ and others seem very happy so far, reviews won't be too far away. I have a riding bud who was in the queue early enough to (hopefully) get his Karoo this year. I reckon Feb/March for mine, I ordered late September. I've been very impressed with the honesty and detail regarding design and production the Hammerhead team have shown so far. They lost a few pre-order customers who got fed up with the delays & went back to Garmin, but I wasn't put off, I saw that in more positive terms. If they chose to make improvements and fixes in preproduction that caused delays, better that than just doing it for v2 if at all. Given the problems many Garmin owners have with brand-new devices, let alone ones like my Edge 705 that should have had software issues fixed and didn't, this is rather refreshing.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: TigaSefi on December 22, 2017, 12:36:06 pm
https://blog.hammerhead.io/truth-in-2017-e9be6a8ea977

Wow that is some lying!
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: psyclist on December 22, 2017, 01:47:58 pm
Rather amateurish. Quite why they chose not to be truthful from the start defeats me. I can't see how trying to get those initial 100 customers to be untruthful was ever going to work in their favour.

So they've been found out and now make a public statement. They have certainly gone down in my eyes.

When their product is properly out and available, this may all wash over.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: jiberjaber on December 22, 2017, 03:39:59 pm
I'm treating it as a 'Kick starter without kick starter'  The s/w is bound to be limited and potentially buggy when it eventually arrives - but to be fair, I've paid a lot in the past for similar Garmin experience (which they then fix and then break again on a regular schedule!)

I think Wahoo was similar launch wrt functionality and bugs which they then ironed out over a period of time with user feedback.

I haven't seen the DCR video yet but did read the Hammerhead release this morning.  Seems like they took a very ill advised approach - at best they should have got some sort of NDA in place if they were going to expect to be able to manage the story for the first 100 users / guinea pigs /previewers .

I'm sure it will arrive when it arrives  :thumbsup:
 
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Horizon on December 22, 2017, 04:46:03 pm
It's an astonishing level of deceit. I've been following this since they were 'launched' and held back on buying one until I was sure they were shipping. Once they claimed they were, at the end of last month, I placed an order. However, it quickly became obvious that something wasn't right - no reviews, nothing on youtube, and then very muted comments from a couple of 'owners' - almost as though everyone had had to sign an NDA (which effectively the 100 beta testers, not buyers, had). Three weeks and still nothing and it was pretty obvious they were lying and I asked for a refund, which to be fair I got in three days. A couple of days later, they were called out by DCRainmaker as liars, to which they've had to own up to. Nothing has shipped to the open market, and the product itself is obviously well off being ready. If and when it ever ships, it can be the best thing ever, but I won't be buying one.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: psyclist on December 22, 2017, 05:10:59 pm
I'm in no rush, and I'm not in the first wave of customers. My strategy was always to wait until reviews start coming out, and then cancel if any issues appear to be unresolvable in the medium term, or are caused by the hardware.

They are obviously feeling a lot of pressure, and have made a huge mistake. What disappoints me is that they only lay everything in the open once they have been caught out. Otherwise there would have been no public apology and their misdemeanours would have been kept secret. So it just becomes a PR exercise to try to keep folk on board.

For me, their saving grace is the fact that this market is so poorly served currently.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: TigaSefi on December 22, 2017, 05:20:08 pm
I did think it was weird that they wouldn’t ramp up production straight away!
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Aushiker on December 27, 2017, 05:44:22 am
I have given up on the lack of confirmable news and cancelled my order this week. At least they completed the refund very promptly and without any hassle. I have a Garmin Edge 1030 on the way instead now.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Manotea on December 31, 2017, 08:21:22 pm
I'd been uming and ahing about getting one of these but held off (if only because it would cost more than my current steed), but as is, and given the battery limitations of the hammerhead and other issues arising, for riders who don't need the cycling specific functionality (HRM, ANT+, whatever), increasingly the way forward seems to use a mobile phone + app. I occasionally receive DIY perm tracks from riders who use their phones as the primary GPS or as a backup when their GPS fails, and the tech seems to be coming along nicely. I'll have to start asking folks exactly what they are using.

But my reality is I've just bought an Extrex Vista Hcx for £21 (£26 delivered) on ebay so such decisions have been put off for the forseeable future. :)
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: TigaSefi on January 11, 2018, 07:01:03 pm
They given 100 people a Karoo right ? That must be some ultra tight NDA they have right there!  Not heard a dicky bird. Meanwhile the backers are getting extremely restless.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Horizon on January 11, 2018, 08:05:08 pm
They given 100 people a Karoo right ? That must be some ultra tight NDA they have right there!  Not heard a dicky bird. Meanwhile the backers are getting extremely restless.
No NDA apparently, but you're right, practically nothing - the 100 Caracal beta testers are perhaps so underwhelmed they can't be bothered to post anything much! It's not a kickstarter- there aren't backers in that sense of the word - people placed advance orders in return for a discount.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: dim on January 11, 2018, 08:10:56 pm
http://mailchi.mp/hammerhead/karoo-production-shipping-update?e=8f907e0d28 (http://mailchi.mp/hammerhead/karoo-production-shipping-update?e=8f907e0d28)

(http://images.emailaptitude.com/hammerhead/2018/January/01.09.18_ShippingQA/image1_p.jpg)

https://vimeo.com/246492638 (https://vimeo.com/246492638)
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Aushiker on January 12, 2018, 12:14:47 am
DC Rainmaker posted a new video on the Karoo in the past week. This is one of the beta test units

https://youtu.be/bMuGnHdb5Bk
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: psyclist on January 15, 2018, 09:05:26 am
Having watched the latest DC Rainmaker video I've decided to pull out. My main considerations were:


One positive though, my refund was processed within 6 minutes of it being requested.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Horizon on January 15, 2018, 09:16:14 am
They've been adamant to date that they will only sell direct. UK sales will eventually be served by a European distribution point but for now seem to ship directly from the US. That of course leads to customs issues and of course returns or repairs hassle in shipping back to the US.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on January 18, 2018, 07:29:44 pm
Yet another update email. I can’t understand why they are planning to phase in full functionality.

Still not tempted by the introductory price to be a software tester. Having said that, if it does all eventually work as they claim, it will wipe Garmin out.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: igauk on January 21, 2018, 04:37:38 pm
I've thought about jumping on this a few times, tempted by the introductory discount but I once you factor in VAT and duty it's less of a bargain, let alone the unofficial beta testing that seems to be going on. The other thing that concerns me is all GPS manufacturers seem to be going down the 'all singing and dancing' route when nobody has actually managed to make a bike specific device that actually navigates reliably day in day out (perhaps Etrex excepted, although that still has its 'quirks').
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: citoyen on January 21, 2018, 05:50:03 pm
From the comments on the DC Rainmaker vid: "Doesn't seem to be the product they originally advertised."

I didn't really understand 8 months ago why so many people seemed so keen to jump on board and make a financial commitment to buying an untested, unproven device. I still don't understand it now.

If an established tech company with years of experience finds it so hard to get it right, why would anyone imagine a new startup can deliver on all its promises at the first attempt?

Also, their website is awash with bullshit.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: dim on January 21, 2018, 06:09:41 pm
I'm in no rush, and I'm not in the first wave of customers. My strategy was always to wait until reviews start coming out, and then cancel if any issues appear to be unresolvable in the medium term, or are caused by the hardware.

They are obviously feeling a lot of pressure, and have made a huge mistake. What disappoints me is that they only lay everything in the open once they have been caught out. Otherwise there would have been no public apology and their misdemeanours would have been kept secret. So it just becomes a PR exercise to try to keep folk on board.

For me, their saving grace is the fact that this market is so poorly served currently.

in 6 month's time, you will buy it for half price on Ebay ....

IMHO, I don't think that it even comes close to the new Garmin Edge 1030 ....

I use the Edge 1000, and I struggled at first to get it to work properly, a few software revisions, and with help from the internet and other users to setting it up correctly,  it never misses a beat for me now

I have mine connected to a Garmin Varia Radar unit plus all the sensors, so battery life was an issue (6-7hrs), (The radar unit chews the battery, but it's a 'must have') .... however, connect it to a powerbank and battery problems solved

so in my opinion, it's not even close to the Garmin and I doubt that I would buy one at half price on Ebay later this year
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: jiberjaber on January 21, 2018, 10:52:30 pm
I think I'll be going for a refund this week I think. Beepgate is a big disappointment.  I'll probably give a 1030 a go - can't be that bad surely :D
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: jiberjaber on January 22, 2018, 01:18:57 am
Having watched the latest DC Rainmaker video I've decided to pull out. My main considerations were:

  • No speaker. I hadn't realised that the unit would be silent, which seems a strange hardware decision. I suspect that in later models they will add a speaker, at least if they wish to appeal to road cyclists
  • Allied with the above, I get the feeling that it is not just software updates that will improve the Karoo, but also a number of hardware improvements will be made. The second generation may provide a better product that is worth waiting for
  • Price wise, once the Karoo is on the market and available from UK retailers, I don't believe the retail price will be significantly different from the pre-order price, especially given the large tax burden that is levied

One positive though, my refund was processed within 6 minutes of it being requested.
Andrew, who did you contact to arrange the refund? I can't seem to find a process on their website.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: psyclist on January 22, 2018, 08:32:24 am
I emailed support@hammerhead.io with my simple request for a refund, and gave them my order number. As mentioned above, they were very quick to respond and provide the refund. Hopefully that will be the case for yourself too.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: jiberjaber on January 22, 2018, 08:58:55 am
I emailed support@hammerhead.io with my simple request for a refund, and gave them my order number. As mentioned above, they were very quick to respond and provide the refund. Hopefully that will be the case for yourself too.

Ta - email sent.  There's a couple of 1030's in stock at my local Evans and I have a convenient £200 voucher from Quidco to spend so it makes it a very easy purchase!  (Now if only Evans were open before 10AM I could pick it up and try it on today's ride!  ::-) )

ETA: Refund requested 09:00 this morning, nothing received back yet other than a ticket has been raised auto-email.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: jiberjaber on January 23, 2018, 10:03:40 am
I despair!

From "VP Operations - Hammerhead":

Quote
Thanks for getting in touch with us!

We’re sorry to hear that you would like a refund. We know you have been looking forward the Karoo, which is finally days away from delivery. We greatly appreciate your support these long months, and we would be extremely sorry to see you go now..

We will refund your money immediately if you wish, but before doing so, would you mind letting us know your specific reasoning? Your candor would be extremely helpful to us. However, you are certainly not required to give us any further explanation if you’d rather not.

Please note that the $299 pre-ordered price of Karoo you paid will be refunded to you if you’d like, but if you chose to again purchase the Karoo, you will pay the full regular price of $499.

All questions or concerns are encouraged! Otherwise, please just confirm that you’d like your refund, and we’ll provide it right away.


12 hours later I get a response .... We'll give you a refund if you tell us why, or tell us you are not going to tell us...  ::-)
12 hours on from replying to that I still don't have a refund.

Perhaps they are overrun with refund requests or are 'all hands on deck' packaging everything...
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: psyclist on January 24, 2018, 09:44:45 am
That was very different to my experience for getting a refund.

I sent my short request for a refund on 15th Jan at 8:32. I didn't give a reason for the refund ... I thought the less information provided the better. I immediately got an automated response to say the request had been received. 6 minutes later I got notification that the order had been refunded. 1 minute after that I had an email from Sherkhan at Hammerhead confirming that he had processed the refund and stating "If you are unable to purchase it at this time, we totally understand, but please stay in touch so you can receive updates as we ship and have units in the wild."
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: jiberjaber on January 24, 2018, 11:13:09 am
I think they are overrun - I noted on a FB post I have been monitoring that a number of people are claiming to have recieved a  request to confirm their delivery address - seems like a good idea to keep hopes alive says the cynic in me!.

I complained about the 'demand for feedback' - it would have been much better for them to have processed the refund then seek feedback if they wanted it... I felt a little at hostage.  After waiting I sent them:
Quote
Regarding "We will refund your money immediately if you wish", I clearly indicated over 24 hours ago that I would like a refund.
Whilst I am happy to provide feedback (and have done) I am not happy that my refund is predicated on you reading that feedback!
Please escalate and advise progress.

To which they responded:
Quote
Thanks for the feedback Jason! Much appreciated. We will process your refund shortly.
Please excuse our reply speed. Despite being a tiny team, we ensure to get back to each and every one of our hundreds of message within a 24 hour period, as we have done with you. 
Thanks again for your interest in our product. You should see the refund reflected within 24 hours.
All the best,
Jon

Refund arrived in to my paypal at 10:02, so 2 days and a bit from when requested.  I was hovering over the escalate to Paypal as a claim button but whilst annoyed at 2 days of delay, felt it might still be a bit early to hit that button.

I am going to feedback on the delay, the ransom feeling and a suggested alternative wording!  I would be concerned about how they are going to support the community if they are struggling to even process a simple refund "immediately".

In summary - I'm glad I'm out....  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: psyclist on January 24, 2018, 12:16:16 pm
In the grand scheme of things, 2 days for a refund is much quicker than many large companies would achieve.

However, as a small company, if confidence in the product is lost and the refund demands escalate, there may well come a time when they pull the plug. Hopefully that won’t be the case.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: jiberjaber on January 24, 2018, 12:24:31 pm
In the grand scheme of things, 2 days for a refund is much quicker than many large companies would achieve.

However, as a small company, if confidence in the product is lost and the refund demands escalate, there may well come a time when they pull the plug. Hopefully that won’t be the case.

Yep agreed when the refund isn't paypal but what most concerned me was the ransom for feedback, my commercial spidey senses were triggered as I was thinking it might be a delaying tactic due to cash flow issues... (lack of anything delivered, a bit of a history for being flexible with the truth etc)  I'm out now so more relieved.  :thumbsup:

Anyhow, ordered, collected and now playing with a new 1030... I seem to have condemned myself to being another Garmin Beta tester!  :facepalm:  ;D
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: andrew_s on January 24, 2018, 08:33:05 pm
...nobody has actually managed to make a bike specific device that actually navigates reliably day in day out (perhaps Etrex excepted, although that still has its 'quirks').
I think a lot of the problem isn't the devices, but the road data. There's the traditional car satnav maps (Navteq & TeleAtlas, now owned by Garmin & TomTom), OpenStreetMap, and Google, and that's about it. None of them are properly reliable for bicycle-specific navigation, so there are always going to be routing glitches.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: dim on January 24, 2018, 09:59:34 pm
...nobody has actually managed to make a bike specific device that actually navigates reliably day in day out (perhaps Etrex excepted, although that still has its 'quirks').
I think a lot of the problem isn't the devices, but the road data. There's the traditional car satnav maps (Navteq & TeleAtlas, now owned by Garmin & TomTom), OpenStreetMap, and Google, and that's about it. None of them are properly reliable for bicycle-specific navigation, so there are always going to be routing glitches.

I've never had a problem with my Edge 1000 as regards planning a route on the unit, and the mapping software is the version that was released with the unit)

where I do sometimes find problems is when I plan a route on RideWithGps ..... sometimes, when getting to a 4 way intersection, it does not tell which way to turn, until after you guess which way to turn .... so I would guess that the problem is with the RideWithGps software (I use the free version)

and saying that, every route that I have copied from the Cambridge Cycle Club (on RideWithGps), has been flawless .... (maybe the paid version is better?)
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: igauk on January 25, 2018, 07:50:50 pm
...nobody has actually managed to make a bike specific device that actually navigates reliably day in day out (perhaps Etrex excepted, although that still has its 'quirks').
I think a lot of the problem isn't the devices, but the road data. There's the traditional car satnav maps (Navteq & TeleAtlas, now owned by Garmin & TomTom), OpenStreetMap, and Google, and that's about it. None of them are properly reliable for bicycle-specific navigation, so there are always going to be routing glitches.
Routing glitches I can cope with, it's the hardware/firmware/software failing that does my head in.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: igauk on January 25, 2018, 07:57:27 pm
...nobody has actually managed to make a bike specific device that actually navigates reliably day in day out (perhaps Etrex excepted, although that still has its 'quirks').
I think a lot of the problem isn't the devices, but the road data. There's the traditional car satnav maps (Navteq & TeleAtlas, now owned by Garmin & TomTom), OpenStreetMap, and Google, and that's about it. None of them are properly reliable for bicycle-specific navigation, so there are always going to be routing glitches.

I've never had a problem with my Edge 1000 as regards planning a route on the unit, and the mapping software is the version that was released with the unit)

where I do sometimes find problems is when I plan a route on RideWithGps ..... sometimes, when getting to a 4 way intersection, it does not tell which way to turn, until after you guess which way to turn .... so I would guess that the problem is with the RideWithGps software (I use the free version)

and saying that, every route that I have copied from the Cambridge Cycle Club (on RideWithGps), has been flawless .... (maybe the paid version is better?)

I've got the paid for premium RWGPS and thought it was the ideal solution, until it stopped downloading all the map tiles off line, or rather it appeared to download them then when you were about to start your ride, or were part way through, and were staring at a blank screen. I'm now on OSMand and using a bike computer for speed, distance, cadence etc.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Ham on January 25, 2018, 09:39:17 pm

and saying that, every route that I have copied from the Cambridge Cycle Club (on RideWithGps), has been flawless .... (maybe the paid version is better?)

Not IME, although it is only occasionally that I've noticed the fault and as I ride with a Garmin Oregon on view and paid for RidewithGPS chattering away in my back pocket it wasn't a problem. The reason for the two is that if I was going to have only one, it would be the Garmin, but RidewithGPS is streets ahead (oops) for route planning. Oh yeah, and that chatter amuses me sometimes, like when it told me to ride on the LU-P500 (Lugo provincial road, 500) - "Turn onto Loopy 500" Most times the fault seems associated with not realising there is a change in road, for whatever reason.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: jiberjaber on January 28, 2018, 06:02:36 pm
I saw this posted on FB today, might be of interest to anyone still with an iron in the fire.

Quote
Aaron M. Roy Here is some feedback after testing my Karoo out the past two weeks...
Pros:
-Hardware GUI is super easy to use and your off, riding and recording in seconds.
-Strava sync has been flawless so far
-Unit fell of while riding today and is completely fine minus some dings and dents.
-New software updates seem to be out every week.

Cons:
-No strava live segments (to my knowledge)
-still multiple bugs to iron out (I.e on recent ride I left karoo on pause while in coffee shop and ride ended with no way to resume)
-web GUI is more difficult to use then map my ride or other segment/route creators.

Overall I like the device, excited to see further software improvements on Karoo and web portal in next few months!
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: StuAff on January 29, 2018, 03:15:35 pm
Thanks Jason. Holding fire till more reviews start coming in....
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: jiberjaber on February 02, 2018, 04:20:49 pm
DCR has posted a new video.  Changing pages seems a bit tricky to me, (prefer using my Garmin remote) and you can't keep cycling through pages and of course no beep. Still happy with my decision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUVwwlIyZcg&t=4s
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Horizon on February 02, 2018, 04:59:15 pm
DCR has posted a new video.  Changing pages seems a bit tricky to me, (prefer using my Garmin remote) and you can't keep cycling through pages and of course no beep. Still happy with my decision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUVwwlIyZcg&t=4s

The 'no sound' is a plain bonkers decision that I think will cost them dear. I note DCR's conclusion that this is 12-18 months off being 'prime time', by which time of course the competition will have moved that much further on. Also note that it is still not shipping ... happy I cancelled mine.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: StuAff on February 04, 2018, 06:32:26 pm
Cancelled my order- Ray Maker's opinions were pretty conclusive for me. I'll certainly be keeping an eye on reviews and feedback once Karoos finally start shipping, and I'm still hoping Hammerhead get it right. Garmin need someone to give them a good kicking....
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: TigaSefi on February 08, 2018, 06:23:26 pm
It’s shipping now!! Here we go!
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Horizon on February 08, 2018, 06:36:04 pm
It’s shipping now!! Here we go!

Ummm, perhaps not quite - USA only, shipping within the next couple of days, Europe at least two weeks until they ship (and no indication of where from or how long it will take) and that in itself pending some European certification ... and so it goes on. And all of this only for those who placed orders many, many months ago. If you've ordered within the last 6 months ...
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: TigaSefi on February 08, 2018, 06:37:14 pm
Still better than a fart in bed! This is a major step forward from not being able to ship at all!
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Horizon on February 08, 2018, 06:40:45 pm
Still better than a fart in bed! This is a major step forward from not being able to ship at all!

I'll take the fart - delivered on demand and on time, probably more satisfying and free as well. I note the 'early offer' is still up - they said this was only until it began shipping.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: TigaSefi on February 08, 2018, 06:59:02 pm
Still better than a fart in bed! This is a major step forward from not being able to ship at all!

I'll take the fart - delivered on demand and on time, probably more satisfying and free as well. I note the 'early offer' is still up - they said this was only until it began shipping.

They have a lot of goodwill to make up and a lot of people cancelled so they can keep the offer on for those cancelled units maybe. It’s sure gonna get more interesting from now on.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: TigaSefi on February 23, 2018, 11:52:33 pm
Gonna be a long time before it is a garmin beater by the looks of it. Lots of feedback on facebook and it's extremely basic. Best come back in a year and see if it is still around!
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: chrisbainbridge on May 12, 2018, 11:59:43 pm
My karoo arrived this week and I have done 1  ride of 30km on it. part on route with TBT directions and the the last 10k off course.  Started flawlessly and worked fine with stages power meter and garmin HR band.  When I deliberately went off course it corrected itself and tried to get me back on track.  One instance during this when it got totally stuffed but then about 2 minutes later reset its routing and then flawlessly took me back onto a track.  After the amount of negativity on the FB  sites I am very impressed.  They have a small problem with the locking tabs but nothing which cannot be sorted.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: TigaSefi on May 16, 2018, 05:10:22 pm
My karoo arrived this week and I have done 1  ride of 30km on it. part on route with TBT directions and the the last 10k off course.  Started flawlessly and worked fine with stages power meter and garmin HR band.  When I deliberately went off course it corrected itself and tried to get me back on track.  One instance during this when it got totally stuffed but then about 2 minutes later reset its routing and then flawlessly took me back onto a track.  After the amount of negativity on the FB  sites I am very impressed.  They have a small problem with the locking tabs but nothing which cannot be sorted.

That's good news as its getting an absolute hammering (pun intended) on facebook to the point I have basically dismissed the product.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: chrisbainbridge on May 17, 2018, 11:38:28 am
facebook is interesting though as there are more people giving it a reasonable review now.  Lots of people are saying that there are 1000 members of the Facebook group and therefore all these complaints mean that the device is awful.  However we do not know how many devices have been sold so we do not know what proportion of people are having problems.  I certainly do not think that this is a finished product but then for how many years have we been all saying that the Garmins are not finished products?

Have they over promised and under delivered?  Yes they have but that is the nature of all of these devices and whilst this apparently was not a kickstart a project, it was certainly a brand-new device on what was at that stage a new platform for a device of this nature.

I can understand the desire for every device of this nature to be attached with a quarter turn mount but the reality is that the torsional stress due to the increased width and weight of this device on a quarter turn mount will have added extra stress to the mounting tabs and therefore I think my greatest disappointment at this stage is that they have not changed the mounting support.  I think the tabs are acceptable but I think the karoo needs a larger area of support than it presently has.

I am certainly keeping mine.  The screen is beautiful and I suspect it will take another 6 – 9 months to be finally a garmin beater but I do not see why it would not be in the end.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: frankly frankie on May 17, 2018, 05:13:48 pm
facebook is interesting though as there are more people giving it a reasonable review now.  Lots of people are saying that there are 1000 members of the Facebook group and therefore all these complaints mean that the device is awful.  However we do not know how many devices have been sold so we do not know what proportion of people are having problems.  I certainly do not think that this is a finished product but then for how many years have we been all saying that the Garmins are not finished products?

Same applies doesn't it.  We do not know what proportion of Garmin users have problems either.  It's probably not "all".
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Kim on May 17, 2018, 05:50:02 pm
Same applies doesn't it.  We do not know what proportion of Garmin users have problems either.  It's probably not "all".

There's also the difficulty of differentiating the "doesn't work" problems from "hard to use" and "mismatched expectations".  While you do get the occasional random crash, most of the issues with Garmins these days come in the latter categories.  They've made the software infuriating for a small subset of users who want to do certain things (and probably improved it for others) but they have got better at things that actually break, like rubber bands, handlebar brackets and battery contacts.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Phil W on May 17, 2018, 06:50:09 pm
Saw a Karoo on a local CTC ride last week. Did like the size and resolution of the screen. Shame you are stuck with the maps they provide, rather than being able to load your own. Has anyone used it on a 400km audax and up yet?
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: TigaSefi on May 21, 2018, 11:16:51 am
What really struck me is the amount of people that rely on TBT which doesn't work ( never worked on my Garmin products and i have it turned off on wahoo). Surely you'd know your way round local routes and even with "audax" lengths, you'd be doing some research and know where you want to be going.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Kim on May 21, 2018, 02:20:40 pm
I find TBT on Garmin is useful, but only as a convenience for beeping at junctions and making the screen more readable, when used with a lovingly hand-crafted (in Basecamp, using the map that's on the unit - anything else is too prone to randomness) Route. For anything audax-like, I'd use it in combination with a visible Track and the odd annotated waypoint so you can strategically ignore it when it loses the plot.

Ie. It's not a complete waste of time, but it does rely on you having done your homework, at which point its usefulness is greatly depreciated.

It's okay for helping you find the railway station when things go wrong, though.  That's closer to what that sort of thing is designed to be used for.

I was reasonably impressed by the Edge Touring's "plot me a ride of distance n" feature.  Again, a different animal from following some pre-determined route, which auto-routing is always going to be in conflict with.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: citoyen on May 21, 2018, 03:21:21 pm
What is TBT?
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: Feanor on May 21, 2018, 03:27:26 pm
What is TBT?

Turn-By-Turn directions.

Where on the approach to a junction, it beeps, zooms the map in to the junction, draws a white arrow on top of the purple line, and gives an instruction.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: citoyen on May 21, 2018, 03:44:00 pm
Ah! Thanks, Feanor.

I just make do with the breadcrumb trail on my Edge 510 but find that more than adequate for following a route - especially now I've learnt how to add waypoints. You occasionally have to use a bit of guesswork at complicated junctions but it's soon clear if you've gone off piste.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: SoreTween on May 26, 2018, 09:05:11 am
[off topic] Edge 510 should do TBT, my very elderly 500 does*. Try making a route on cycle.travel, TBT is a checkbox option when you download the .tcx.

*The 500 makes the beep on or just after the junction which is sub-optimal but still of use. It's an issue with the garmin, the file from c.t has the turn marks exactly the distance you ask for before the junction. No matter what distance before you ask for the garmin ignores it and beeps on or just after the turn. I don't understand how as it has no knowledge of the road layout.  Even an 'exit 2' effective straight on at a roundabout gets moved to the exit, c.t allows you to set the marker 30-100m before and I've tested the full range. I guess the demon inside mine reading the notes has to amuse itself somehow  :-\
[/off topic]
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: frankly frankie on May 26, 2018, 09:15:31 am
*The 500 makes the beep on or just after the junction which is sub-optimal but still of use. It's an issue with the garmin, the file from c.t has the turn marks exactly the distance you ask for before the junction. No matter what distance before you ask for the garmin ignores it and beeps on or just after the turn. I don't understand how as it has no knowledge of the road layout.

Are you sure it's not simply beeping to indicate a significant change in direction?   It doesn't need any TBT instructions to do that.
Title: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: citoyen on May 27, 2018, 05:41:43 pm
Yes, when I’m using the ‘map’ screen for navigation, the 510 often gives me turn instructions based on significant changes of direction, such as a sharp bend, even if it’s not a junction. It has no knowledge of the actual road layout. (I have turned the beeps off because they’re too irritating.)

It is possible to manually program it with proper turn instructions but it’s more trouble than it’s worth. As noted already, I get on fine following the breadcrumb trail.
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: chrisbainbridge on May 27, 2018, 11:15:51 pm
Yes, when I’m using the ‘map’ screen for navigation, the 510 often gives me turn instructions based on significant changes of direction, such as a sharp bend, even if it’s not a junction. It has no knowledge of the actual road layout
I often find that those acute turns have some sort of track, even if vestigial on the OS map which also causes a turn indicatiob
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: chrisbainbridge on July 27, 2020, 09:30:16 pm
I have finally given up on my hammerhead karoo.

Good points:
The display is amazing, clear, large and visible even in bright sunlight.
The software is now pretty good.  It knows that we drive on the left and turn indications are correct.  Segments are nicely displayed from Strava and much better than garmin.
TBT works nicely and clearly

Bad points:
No beep at all
It completely crashes on me with no warning.  I can do a 60km ride with full TBT and no problems then next day it will crash on my commute when it is just recording.  I have done so many re-installs it is not true.

Now I fully accept that I probably have a bad one and this is not indicative of their overall quality but I cannot trust it again. BUT it is Android and you can side load other programs, etc.

So I am giving it away if anybody wants to play with side loading other mapping software, etc for the fun of it.  pm me
Title: Re: DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit
Post by: igauk on July 30, 2020, 11:34:35 pm
I have finally given up on my hammerhead karoo.

Good points:
The display is amazing, clear, large and visible even in bright sunlight.
The software is now pretty good.  It knows that we drive on the left and turn indications are correct.  Segments are nicely displayed from Strava and much better than garmin.
TBT works nicely and clearly

Bad points:
No beep at all
It completely crashes on me with no warning.  I can do a 60km ride with full TBT and no problems then next day it will crash on my commute when it is just recording.  I have done so many re-installs it is not true.

Now I fully accept that I probably have a bad one and this is not indicative of their overall quality but I cannot trust it again. BUT it is Android and you can side load other programs, etc.

So I am giving it away if anybody wants to play with side loading other mapping software, etc for the fun of it.  pm me

Sent you a PM Chris.