Author Topic: Tandem Rear Hubs (Read 20863 times)

PeterS · « **on:** 28 April, 2012, 02:27:07 pm »

We bought 2 sets of Royce hubs for our tandem ( a spare set of wheels in case we needed them). The rear hub has now failed 3 times (pawls twice and cracked hub body once). After paying top dollar for quality hubs I'm starting to wonder if they are actually fit for purpose. They've never managed more than 1500 miles before failing, we are not that heavy (75kg and 60kg), all the miles have been 'dry'miles, we don't grind up hills in a big gear and when the latest one failed (yesterday) we were twiddling up a very modest hill, luckily only 4 miles from home. I've emailed Royce and am awaiting a reply. Apart from the inconvenience of breaking down and having to get home somehow we also have to wait weeks to get our hub back after sending it to Royce for repair. Do I chuck 2 hubs which I paid £400 for in the bin and buy something else?

salar55 · « **Reply #1 on:** 04 May, 2012, 02:51:31 pm »

I would bin them , have had Hugi and Hope tandem hubs fail . Freehub and axle on Hugi, and flanges, axles, pawls and freehubs cracked on Hope. Made same mistake as you bought two sets of Hope. Now onto Phil Wood hubs for the tandem , they are heavy but look well made . Used last summer on a Cent Col rando , then into the Vercors about 2500km with camping gear. First time i have not had to strip a rear hub down on tour.

The French Tandem · « **Reply #2 on:** 09 May, 2012, 02:40:50 pm »

The best value for money, in my humble opinion, is the Shimano HF08 or XT tandem hubs (I'm not sure whether or nor they are exactly the same). They are ugly, they are heavy, but they just do the job for much cheaper than any of the other hubs cited above! We are not a light tandem team (92+ 60 kg). We have a pair of these hubs for over 8000 km now. I repacked them with grease every winter, and they still ride like brand new hubs.

chrisbeeching · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 August, 2012, 06:29:16 pm »

I think riding style, and all-up weight contribute to the liklihood (or not) of hub failure. I'm not sure the quslity of rear wheel building affects hub life.

I have Swallow hubs on two of my tandems. The pair on the Swallow tandem have done some 20,000 miles, and the pair on the Claude Butler have done about 15,000 miles. The former used for heavy touring (cycle camping), and the Claude for long fast Fleche and similar rides. The bearings are press-fit and replaceable, though having regreased them once a year with decent grease so far the spare bearings are still unused.

The Sun Wasp is using Mavic solo hubs (36/36) carefully built, with Open 4 rims and 25mm tyres pumped up very hard. They've been used for racing (on the Claude) in the past, and having now covered some 8-10,000 miles.

Rider weights are 13 stone (me) and 10 1/2 stone (stoker), and we don't usually potter!

I do still have a spare pair of Swallow hubs - can't remember spoke count, but likely 40/40. If anyone's interested, let me know.

Does anyone know if Suzue tandem hubs are still around - just curious.

Chris

rogerzilla · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 August, 2012, 06:37:51 pm »

Spoking pattern affects the flanges; 40h x4 is pretty normal and shouldn't stress the flanges too much.

The problem with some of these boutique hubs is that they're CNCed from billet, and you can't get such a strong shell as you can by cold-forging and then tidying up on a lathe. You need to be a big volume producer to afford a drop forge, though - which is why Shimano is nearly always the answer to "which hub?" unless you're talking about track hubs. If they put proper weather seals on Dura-Ace track hubs it would kill off Phil, Goldtec et al.

L CC · « **Reply #5 on:** 06 October, 2012, 12:40:42 pm »

We've just stripped another Hugi. The emergency bmx freewheel skipped constantly and wasn't really fit for purpose.

We're going to get something else, but what?
We're heavy, and powerful. Can anything cope with that?

clarion · « **Reply #6 on:** 06 October, 2012, 12:44:08 pm »

We're heavy (very heavy with camping load) and have a Deore XT which is managing well.

It has a disc rather than drum brake, though (we had the frame changed over when we got the respray).

dasmoth · « **Reply #7 on:** 06 October, 2012, 01:06:36 pm »

We've just had a new tandem hub although the issue with our old one was bearing-related rather than the freewheel. JD Tandems recommended a Hadley, which comes with a somewhat eye-watering price tag but apparently not too much history I trouble. We all see how it goes!

LittleWheelsandBig · « **Reply #8 on:** 06 October, 2012, 01:23:29 pm »

I'd just go Shimano myself. They are quite reliable, fairly cheap and easily available. Most of the flashy hubs are unreliable and/or stupidly priced. Few teams blow apart Shimano hubs, especially given the number of Shimano tandem hubs out there.

jogler · « **Reply #9 on:** 06 October, 2012, 02:12:39 pm »

Quote from: boabacca on 06 October, 2012, 12:40:42 pm

We've just stripped another Hugi. The emergency bmx freewheel skipped constantly and wasn't really fit for purpose.

We're going to get something else, but what?
We're heavy, and powerful. Can anything cope with that?

Call here

http://www.longstaffcycles.com/

on your way back to joglerville from Broken Cross.

Go via Congleton & where the A34 crosses over the A500 carry on the A34,turn right at 2nd roundabout(MacDonalds on the left of the r'bout),straight over the mini r'bout,turn right at next roundabout,second( I think) left onto Albert Street.
Speak to Bev. or Lance about the hub issue & don't drool on the floor where the tandems are on display

jogler · « **Reply #10 on:** 06 October, 2012, 04:51:42 pm »

I see that on another forum you ARE drooling

bikenrrd · « **Reply #11 on:** 06 October, 2012, 05:49:19 pm »

Downhill MTB bikes now take 150mm wide hubs with a 12mm bolt through rear axle - i.e. rather than a weedy 5mm QR in a 9mm axle, the hub is hollow and you put a 12mm wide axle through the hub and screw it into the dropout on the other side - which is threaded.
Could something like this be used on a tandem? Would require changing your dropouts and getting the rear triangle spaced to 150mm.
edit: also available in 135mm, 12mm bolt through axle and 142mm wide. 3 different widths to choose!

All major MTB parts manufacturers make these types of hubs - Hope, Shimano, etc.

aidan.f · « **Reply #12 on:** 06 October, 2012, 06:49:14 pm »

Axles these days seldom fail, they are more than strong enough, Santana use 160mm OLN wheels, "Much stronger sir, no dish"
IMO they are a the work of stan, results in a high Q factor and low heel clearance for the stoker and awful chain-line, with difficulty adjusting the front mech due to-non standard chainwheel offset. Changing one thing affects another, the best approach as mentioned up thread to use volume parts designed for tandems. Of course Shimano 'aint that sexy and spending more must be better. -

L CC · « **Reply #13 on:** 07 October, 2012, 10:33:56 am »

It has a 135 OLN cold set to 140. Even 145 is too stretched for the dropouts. That limits our options.

We're going to do something else.

LittleWheelsandBig · « **Reply #14 on:** 08 October, 2012, 01:12:20 am »

HK has a Shimano tandem hub trimmed down to 130 OLD on the back of her Audax tandem. It works fine but no chance to fit a drum brake on there now.

Wowbagger · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 October, 2012, 10:41:11 am »

Almost certainly not a solution for this topic, but it seems that the Thorn reinforcement of Rohloff hubs works OK. I would imagine that Mrs. Wow and I are the heaviest regular tandem pairing around, and we never stop grinding.

damerell · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 October, 2012, 06:12:37 pm »

I have a White Industries rear hub - not cheap, but we haven't broken it yet.

Chris S · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 December, 2012, 07:32:30 pm »

We gave Hugi another chance on the new Longstaff tandem. It's lasted just over 2000km of autumn/winter randonneuring, but on a 200 today started making exactly the same noises as the same did on the Swallow (prior to it failing).

Clearly, these hubs are unsuitable for us - we are a heavy but strong team, and ride a lot of wet wintry miles.

We'll probably settle on either a Shimano Deore with a rotor adapter, or a HOPE:

http://www.tandems.co.uk/m11b0s32p331/HOPE-Tandem-Rear-Hub-6-Bolt-40-hole

Thing2 · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 March, 2013, 10:35:15 pm »

Thread resurrection.

Apparently we've broken another Shimano Hub. I don't know if they've changed something about them but this one was less two years old and probably hadn't done much over 1000 miles.

The local tandem friendly bike shop reckon they are seeing this failure quite regularly (crack in the freehub body). I also note that Peter White are now recommending Phil Wood hubs for heavy touring due to this problem, although in this instance it probably occurred while we were unloaded (but doing lots of climbing).

We're not having the best luck with tandems at the moment.....

Chris S · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 March, 2013, 10:44:20 pm »

Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear that.

We have every sympathy for any tandem team having rear hub issues - given our experiences.

We still run a Hugi on the Longstaff. Yes, I know there are issues, and it's a less than convincing design - but I think I like the fact that it's serviceable at the roadside, should needs be.

I'm just starting to think about a lighter weight set of wheels for summer, and I'm mulling over which rear hub to use. I'm currently thinking along the lines of a Hope. There's something in that name that instills, well... Hope.

Thing2 · « **Reply #20 on:** 27 March, 2013, 11:01:01 pm »

Our Santana has a Hadley Racing hub on the rear. Not cheap but hasn't given us any problems (yet), unlike the Shimano hubs on the Thorn. The bikes tend to do very different types of miles though (which is why it's annoying that this hub broke while audaxing rather than touring).

Polar Bear · « **Reply #21 on:** 27 March, 2013, 11:14:01 pm »

Quote from: Thing2 on 27 March, 2013, 10:35:15 pm

Thread resurrection.

Apparently we've broken another Shimano Hub. I don't know if they've changed something about them but this one was less two years old and probably hadn't done much over 1000 miles. The local tandem friendly bike shop reckon they are seeing this failure quite regularly (crack in the freehub body). I also note that Peter White are now recommending Phil Wood hubs for heavy touring due to this problem, although in this instance it probably occurred while we were unloaded (but doing lots of climbing).

We're not having the best luck with tandems at the moment.....

Am I misunderstanding something or is the freehub an easily replaced component? Much better than a broken hub body methinks.

Thing2 · « **Reply #22 on:** 28 March, 2013, 01:29:44 am »

The freehub is fairly easy to replace, which is good. Still a pain though, and puts the bike out of action while the part arrives. We did about 100km after it started causing problems and didn't actually know what was causing it, but didn't really have any bail out options. There was play in the hub and the cassette had worked loose, and the freewheel was catching occasionally too. We checked the locknuts and re tightened the cassette after we noticed the wheel was wobbling all over the shop and although it helped, it didn't completely solve it.

scherrit · « **Reply #23 on:** 13 April, 2013, 10:43:01 pm »

Quote from: rogerzilla on 25 August, 2012, 06:37:51 pm

Spoking pattern affects the flanges; 40h x4 is pretty normal and shouldn't stress the flanges too much.

The problem with some of these boutique hubs is that they're CNCed from billet, and you can't get such a strong shell as you can by cold-forging and then tidying up on a lathe. You need to be a big volume producer to afford a drop forge, though - which is why Shimano is nearly always the answer to "which hub?" unless you're talking about track hubs. If they put proper weather seals on Dura-Ace track hubs it would kill off Phil, Goldtec et al.

Ah, yup. +1 I have used these for 40 spoke rear wheels under exceedingly heavy riders of single bikes, too. Moar spoks!!!!! Conservative wheels prescriber, moi??

damerell · « **Reply #24 on:** 19 April, 2013, 06:50:35 pm »

Quote from: scherrit on 13 April, 2013, 10:43:01 pm

Ah, yup. +1 I have used these for 40 spoke rear wheels under exceedingly heavy riders of single bikes, too. Moar spoks!!!!! Conservative wheels prescriber, moi??

I have a 48 spoke rear on the tandem because they don't make 52 spoke rears.