Paypal Entries - A Breach of the Regulations?

[MercuryKev]

I was a bit bored the other night so I found myself reading the AUK handbook.  When I came to the regulations, reg 5.4 covering entries seemed to suggest that an entry wasn't valid unless the form was accompanied by two stamped addressed envelopes:

5.4 Entries: entry to an event is to be made on the official form or an exact copy. Entrants must state their full name, address and, where applicable, their AUK number. Entry forms must be accompanied by two stamped addressed envelopes and the entry fee (and, in the case of minors, must be signed by the parent or guardian) and should reach the organiser 14 days before the event or by the specified closing date if this is earlier. Entry fees are not refundable.

Now this is getting very pedantic but does this not mean that Paypal entries are not a valid form of entry, according to the regulation, due to the lack of 2 SAEs.  

I did say I was bored.

[Feline]

I think the little envelope picture that arrives in your email inbox counts as an envelope. Just make sure you send the organiser 2 of these (the Paypal confirmation can count as one). You can scan in the image of a stamp and send that to them too if it bothers you 

[Androcles]

Most of my audax entries don't have SAEs, but mostly I enter events run by my CTC group and I see the organisers every week.

[mattc]

I think the little envelope picture that arrives in your email inbox counts as an envelope. Just make sure you send the organiser 2 of these (the Paypal confirmation can count as one). You can scan in the image of a stamp and send that to them too if it bothers you 

I think this response covers all the major issues, and treats Kev's post with the respect it deserves


(Just maybe  reg 5.4 was written before online entries became a must-have, without which AUK is predicted to collapse around our ears).

[Martin]

well if I followed the regulations I'd have 0 points for the last couple of years; most events I am forced to enter by snail mail are usually accompanied by a "don't bother with a posted route sheet or the card back please" note on the entry form

[JohnHamilton]

Like many of the regs it's now out of date. A lot of them haven't been updated in years, not least because it has to be done at the AGM.

[Billy Weir]

Oh my god.  It also requires the entrant's full name.  I pity those who do not include their middle names on the form.  No PBP for you, regulation deniers!

[MercuryKev]

Oh my god.  It also requires the entrant's full name.  I pity those who do not include their middle names on the form.  No PBP for you, regulation deniers!

I hadn't spotted that.  I wonder if I can retrospectively add my middle name to my entries to prevent my SRs being stripped from me

Like many of the regs it's now out of date. A lot of them haven't been updated in years, not least because it has to be done at the AGM.

It does beg the question, what is the point of regulations if they are out of date and don't reflect how the system is being run on the ground.  Seems to me that they current regs have been drafted in a far too specific way, which leaves little room for innovation and evolution.

[Billy Weir]

All I can suggest is that you follow the regulations to the letter.  The rest of us will have to take our chances.

PS: This might result in a quandry.  After all, if I post an entry in a stamped envelope addressed to the organiser, should I in fact only include one stamped self addressed envelope?  I don't mean to cause sleepness nights (although that might be helpful on a 400).  Where is the committee when you need them?  No doubt discussing something trivial like LEL or somesuch, rather than these weighty matters.  Feckless layabouts  

[Keeff]

I've just calendared by 2011/12 season rides and have included a note on the calendar page that SAEs are no longer required for NorfolknGood events from next season.

Many people now download our routesheets.  We hope to reduce postal costs by sending out routesheets for all three of the Nips series in one envelope, and sending back brevet cards for all three rides together.

We've also introduced a loyalty bonus on the Nips series so riders entering the first two will get the third free.

Keith

[The Mechanic]

I think I should check back through my entries and send the cards back for any paypal jobbies.  did I say "jobbies"

[JohnHamilton]

I've just calendared by 2011/12 season rides and have included a note on the calendar page that SAEs are no longer required for NorfolknGood events from next season.

Getting OT but...
I notice some other orgs have done that, and I've tried it out on my Severn & Wye event. Experience so far seems to suggest riders don't read as I'm still getting SAE's.

Personally I'd like to see the back of the 2xSAEs, and starting with this opt-out by the organiser seems a good way to start (coupled with an option to not receive paper routesheets on the entry form). Could do with a way of making it more obvious though.

[daveb]

I've just calendared by 2011/12 season rides and have included a note on the calendar page that SAEs are no longer required for NorfolknGood events from next season.

Getting OT but...
I notice some other orgs have done that, and I've tried it out on my Severn & Wye event. Experience so far seems to suggest riders don't read as I'm still getting SAE's.

Personally I'd like to see the back of the 2xSAEs, and starting with this opt-out by the organiser seems a good way to start (coupled with an option to not receive paper routesheets on the entry form). Could do with a way of making it more obvious though.

I had the same experience.. People still sent SAEs even with a surcharge on postal entries.

[Greenbank]

Oh my god.  It also requires the entrant's full name.  I pity those who do not include their middle names on the form.  No PBP for you, regulation deniers!

You fools with middle names. I blame the parents!

[recumbentim]

  Obvioysly Kev,s astute observations are the mechanism which may bring about a change or an up grading of "the Regulations" to cope with our modern instantaneous communication systems.
  Compleaty paperless porbably not , while some members are not on the interweb?

[Bairn Again]

I was a bit bored the other night so I found myself reading the AUK handbook.  When I came to the regulations, reg 5.4 covering entries seemed to suggest that an entry wasn't valid unless the form was accompanied by two stamped addressed envelopes:

5.4 Entries: entry to an event is to be made on the official form or an exact copy. Entrants must state their full name, address and, where applicable, their AUK number. Entry forms must be accompanied by two stamped addressed envelopes and the entry fee (and, in the case of minors, must be signed by the parent or guardian) and should reach the organiser 14 days before the event or by the specified closing date if this is earlier. Entry fees are not refundable.

Now this is getting very pedantic but does this not mean that Paypal entries are not a valid form of entry, according to the regulation, due to the lack of 2 SAEs.  

I did say I was bored.

Kev - do you have a middle name?  I might have to restrict entries on my forthcoming 300k and it would be such fun to pick on entries that could be deemed ineligible on such a technicality.      
 

     

[Philip Whiteman]

There is a serious aspect with dropping snail-mail in favour of Paypal.    Riders entering via Paypal should still be prewarned and asked to adhere to the following conditions, as stated on the paper entry form:

This event is run under Audax UK regulations. It is not a race or trial of speed. You are expected to follow the
rules of the road and show consideration to other road users. It is your responsibility to familiarise yourself
with Audax UK regulations, guidance, and advice. (Members receive these via AUK publications. Others may
find them on the AUK website at Welcome to AUDAX United Kingdom, or may request printed copies from the organiser of the
event.)
Note:-
-The route is on open public roads.
-You should prepare by studying the route.
-The route is not waymarked or marshalled.
-You are responsible for your safety/conduct.
-Some routes may be arduous. T
-The organiser provides no rescue service.

This provides an important protection for the organiser

[ian_oli]

There is a serious aspect with dropping snail-mail in favour of Paypal.    Riders entering via Paypal should still be prewarned and asked to adhere to the following conditions, as stated on the paper entry form:

snip

This provides an important protection for the organiser

Good point. I have been through signature/declaration issues with lawyers for several different sites and while it won't be legal advice, I will suggest a couple of simple changes that would be advisable to Coatsie.

[mikewigley]

Personally I'd like to see the back of the 2xSAEs

Yes, I don't ask for SAEs for my Perms.  The quality of the envelopes supplied is really quite abysmal (but that of course doesn't apply to anyone on YACF) .  I know one organiser told me that, if he gets a really tiny envelope for the route sheet, he simply shrinks the routesheet on the photocopier accordingly, to fit the envelope and irrespective of the legibility.

[Mad Jack]

Personally I'd like to see the back of the 2xSAEs

Yes, I don't ask for SAEs for my Perms.  The quality of the envelopes supplied is really quite abysmal (but that of course doesn't apply to anyone on YACF) .  I know one organiser told me that, if he gets a really tiny envelope for the route sheet, he simply shrinks the routesheet on the photocopier accordingly, to fit the envelope and irrespective of the legibility.

I like it.....

[frankly frankie]

What about the people who affix the stamps upside down - leaving you, the Organiser, open to a charge of Treason when you return the envelope ...

[3peaker]

Uhm.  Received an A5 SAE for Perm entry.  OK for one Perm but the entry is for 4 (yes Four) Perms.  Great, except that that is about 11 sheets of A4 (2 of the routes have Clock and AC routes) and 4 Brevets and Placky bags.

Usefully, said miscriant lives 50m off one of my 200km routes and I intend to ride it tomorrow.  Saves upgrading the 1st C standard letter stamp to a large letter (by the way, that is what I would have done without any complaint to the rider! Organiser margins aren't that tight).

[Mad Jack]

What about the people who affix the stamps upside down - leaving you, the Organiser, open to a charge of Treason when you return the envelope ...

Off with his head!

Stop making me laugh, having a hot flush!!   

[mmmmartin]

one organiser told me that, if he gets a really tiny envelope for the route sheet, he simply shrinks the routesheet on the photocopier accordingly, to fit the envelope and irrespective of the legibility.

Tis rumoured in the taverns of Hailsham that this in indeed perfectly reasonable.

[Feline]

I have to confess that I actually have NFC how big an A5 envelope actually is. I am indeed lucky if I can find any envelope at all when it comes to sending in entries. Putting a sticker over any envelope in my recycling waste is my preferred technique. Thank god for Paypal entry