Doorstep Milk delivery

[Cudzoziemiec]

I was going to say the same as Helly. Sainsboghorror's plastic bottles of milk are in pints. OTOH Bruton Dairy and Chew Valley from local shops here are in litres. Thus clearly proving that Somerset dairy farmers are more modernly metricationised than stupormarkets.

[citoyen]

Plastic supermarket milk comes in pints unless it's fancy or lacto-free doesn't it?

You know, I just assumed it was all sold in (whole) litres these days, but I never really pay that close attention. I checked the flagon in the fridge, which I took to be 2L, and it is labelled as "2.272L (4 pints)" - which seems like the kind of compromise that is designed to make no one happy.

We buy our milk from Aldi, so I'm slightly surprised.

[hellymedic]

I think the glass bottles are embossed with 568ml above the base.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I wonder if it's down to the relative power of purchaser and supplier? A supermarket can say, "Bottle maker, please make us bottles in pints" whereas a smaller dairy has to take the standard sizes. Or it might be a different judgment of the mindset of the milk consumers (that supermarkets expect their customers to be pint-minded). But as the volume is usually marked on the label not the bottle (for plastic bottles) it could also be the same bottles filled to a different amount.

[Mr Larrington]

Mr Sainsbury's House Of Toothy Comestibles solved my "pouring milk down the sink" problem yesterday by having NO. FRESH. MILK. AT. ALL!

Apart from a handful of bottles of unhomogenised Jersey milk which is foulness personified in tea.  I ended up with some "probiotic" semi-skilled stuff at twice the price of standard cow jus which – thankfully – does the job acceptably in my cuppa.

[Paul H]

I think it's only milk in returnable containers and draught beer which are permitted to be sold as pint units.   Seems a bit silly, when you can sell whatever quantity you want but it probably made someone happy.  I expect the supermarkets just kept it for the sake of comparison, though I doubt many people make it or even realise.

[citoyen]

The best solution to this non-existent problem would be for the government to officially redefine the pint as a metric unit (nicely rounded to 500ml). That would properly wind up the gammonariat.

[ian]

The best solution to this non-existent problem would be for the government to officially redefine the pint as a metric unit (nicely rounded to 500ml). That would properly wind up the gammonariat.

Or simply redefine 500 ml as the 'German pint' and mandate the serving thereof.

I picture the scene at the end of Kingsmen, where all the heads explode.

[grams]

I think it's only milk in returnable containers and draught beer which are permitted to be sold as pint units.

The bottle of M&S Organic semi-skinned in my kühlschrank says "4 pints" on it in the same size font as litres.

It does say it second, because national humiliation etc.

I've always assumed the companies that sell milk in two litre bottles do it so they can sell you 10% less milk for the same price.

[Paul H]

I think it's only milk in returnable containers and draught beer which are permitted to be sold as pint units.

The bottle of M&S Organic semi-skinned in my kühlschrank says "4 pints" on it in the same size font as litres.

Yes, all very silly, but here's the law
https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law

[hellymedic]

I think redefining bottle sizes and scrapping existing reusable glass bottles would be the end of doorstep milk delivery.

I believe the average glass bottle is used 25 times. With about a week's turnaround time it will last half a year.

[Cudzoziemiec]

If I've understood that summary of the law correctly, it would merely require the bottles to be labelled 568ml rather than 1 pint. If Helly's projection of the average life of a glass milk bottle is correct, it wouldn't be too much of a disruption to do this. Or even to start using 500ml (or 1 litre or whatever) bottles. However, I can't see any of this happening. Is anyone even asking for it?

[drossall]

Jam still comes in 454g jars as well. One day I really am going to find a jar which only contains 453g, and complain to customer services.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Yeah, that's a weird one. I've just looked at the jars of jam and honey in our cupboard and they are all labelled 454g (well not all, a few are smaller) with no mention of 1lb. I guess it's just a continuation of the jar size that was available? Possibly counterintuitively, the Polish brand of jam from the polskish sklep is the only thing marked in imperial: 280g / 9.9oz. So even that's not a particularly round number.

[drossall]

Yes, that's right. But convention (at least in science) means that 454g is an assertion that there will be between 453.50 and 454.49g in the jar, so it's pretty precise - they need to get the amount of jam right to within about 0.1%, if I'm not to arrive at customer services complaining. By contrast, 1lb could mean anywhere vaguely near, and even within 10% would be hard to argue against. (All this assumes that they get it right on average of course.)

Pretty obviously, none of the marketing guys would stand for doing the obvious thing, and reducing the claimed accuracy by marking the jar 450g, because then the competition would appear to be offering an extra 4g per jar. Even though it gives the production team a massive headache getting the amounts that accurate

Of course, they probably avoid all this by erring on the slightly generous side anyway. Maybe

[rogerzilla]

Did it for a while but (a) was difficult to exactly match supply and demand (b) was twice the price and (c) the diesel milkfloat woke me up at 4am.

[drossall]

Supply and demand is the point of the milk crate with an indicator of course. It has taken effort to train our milkman to respond to that and not just deliver a standard amount regardless of what we need. Even now I'm not sure he manages it. It's worse if someone's covering while he's on holiday.

[citoyen]

I guess it's just a continuation of the jar size that was available?

Could well be that - I mean, it's not quite 50 years since we went metric, got to give people a chance to adapt...

By contrast, 1lb could mean anywhere vaguely near

 

Not legally it couldn't.

Pretty obviously, none of the marketing guys would stand for doing the obvious thing, and reducing the claimed accuracy by marking the jar 450g

Not entirely sure if you're being serious here...

[drossall]

The emoticons were an attempt to answer that question. But it's pretty dumb that the commonsense approach of marking jars as 450g is (presumably) prevented by marketing considerations.

[citoyen]

The emoticons were an attempt to answer that question.

Good, I suspected as much. Just me being a bit dense this morning!

[Cudzoziemiec]

I guess it's just a continuation of the jar size that was available?

Could well be that - I mean, it's not quite 50 years since we went metric, got to give people a chance to adapt...

It's 100 years or more for Poland and they're still using 280 rather than 250 or 300. I need to find some French/German/etc stuff now and see what they do. Or for that matter USA or Liberia.

[citoyen]

It's 100 years or more for Poland and they're still using 280 rather than 250 or 300.

Maybe just because it's a nice amount of jam? Similarly, a pint of beer is a nice serving. A 500ml bottle of beer always feels a few mouthfuls short of the right amount, which is why you end up needing to open a second bottle, and then you're in trouble...

I guess the point is that using metric measurements doesn't have to mean rounding up or down to 100s or 50s. Even if milk and beer are still sold as pints, that's only on a superficial marketing level - for legal purposes, the containers are surely defined in ml.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Even if milk and beer are still sold as pints, that's only on a superficial marketing level - for legal purposes, the containers are surely defined in ml.

Dunno. The legal stuff linked to upthread rather implied that milk and beer were exceptions and for them, the containers were indeed defined in pints. But it was only a "how to apply the law" rather than the law itself.

The bigger thing about 280g is that it does seem to be a size used in various countries including here, so there's something about it but I don't know what.

[SteveC]

I think the legal definition of a pint is now 568ml, and not by reference to any other standard.

[citoyen]

I think the legal definition of a pint is now 568ml, and not by reference to any other standard.

Exactly.