Author Topic: Getting started  (Read 12810 times)

Re: Getting started
« Reply #50 on: 22 September, 2023, 08:11:12 pm »
Looks good.  I have a velomotion, setup is a bit different with a 20" front wheel.  Bit simpler for me as I bought it before 2016 ...  Lightweight, good quality frame, once you get some more miles in it should become a comfortable and versatile bike.
Sunshine approaching from the South.

First time in 1,000 years.

Re: Getting started
« Reply #51 on: 22 September, 2023, 08:12:08 pm »
Very nice banana, I'll say.

A banana and it's a bent
Sunshine approaching from the South.

First time in 1,000 years.

Re: Getting started
« Reply #52 on: 22 September, 2023, 08:14:15 pm »
What size wheels are they?

Kim

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    • Fediverse
Re: Getting started
« Reply #53 on: 22 September, 2023, 08:44:00 pm »
Very nice banana, I'll say.

A banana and it's a bent

But quite a straight bent benanana.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Getting started
« Reply #54 on: 22 September, 2023, 09:34:39 pm »
Bentnananananananananana

My fingers are tired
What brand is the frame?
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Getting started
« Reply #55 on: 23 September, 2023, 04:15:34 am »
It's looking good! Welcome to the quirkiest dimension of cycling.   ;D

Re: Getting started
« Reply #56 on: 23 September, 2023, 07:47:33 am »
What size wheels are they?

700c front and rear.

Re: Getting started
« Reply #57 on: 23 September, 2023, 07:48:24 am »
Bentnananananananananana

My fingers are tired
What brand is the frame?

Velomotion, no decals on it as it had to be resprayed.

Re: Getting started
« Reply #58 on: 23 September, 2023, 09:38:04 am »
No, it's a courier. So as it's been sat with them for two weeks now, they'll return to sender as the recipient didn't accept delivery in time...

Not a courier, Parcelforce.  I've had no opportunity to accept delivery as they haven't actually attempted it yet.  The parcel is still sat in their "International Hub" in Coventry.  Paperwork is all in order but everything is done by letter.  Sent me a letter a week after they received the package asking for the original invoice as proof of value.   That's been sent and it's been another week since that and still no movement.  I need them to tell me what customs charges are due so I can pay them and customs will release the package for delivery.  Emailing them doesn't help as they have a 5 day response time to email enquiries.

I don't want to use the B word here, but if you voted for it this is your fault.

Here is part of the reason why I have just taken delivery of a box of games sent from Germany and that will end up in Kidlington at some point by some route as yet undefined. The french leg was much quicker and easier than getting it sent direct to UK! At the same time both SJS and Spa have some small items that I have been unable to source in the EU and that will undoubtedly be waiting for me when I visit in january. Keeping the wheels of international commerce turning is fun - balls to Brexit and all that!

Re: Getting started
« Reply #59 on: 23 September, 2023, 11:41:07 pm »
Re pedals; SPDs are the way forward, as you don't want to slip a foot down or spend energy keeping the feet locked in.  If you struggle to clip/unclip on the new bike (I know I did), try loosening the sod mechanism as much as the pedal will take.   You'll be able to unclip and.clip in no worries, but will have your feet held up for you.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

Wothill

  • over the hills and far away
Re: Getting started
« Reply #60 on: 26 September, 2023, 09:58:01 pm »
Right, it took a while in the end but finally have a 'bent build and ridable.

In the end it took almost 6 weeks for ParcelForce to sort themselves out and get the frame delivered.  On the plus side it was in good condition and undamaged when it did finally get delivered.  On the down side it was the wrong colour!  At some point there had been a mix up at Velomotions end and I got a white frame and not a yellow one as ordered.  Rather than messing about returning it and getting mixed up with customs and ParcelForce again Igor agreed to refund me the cost of getting it resprayed here.  That took another week or so but I'm really happy with the end result.  There was nothing wrong with the quality of the original paintwork, it was just the wrong colour!

Assembly was a learning curve.  I used my Audax bike as a donor for running gear, wheels etc.  While it was mostly straight forward there were a couple of places were the tolerances on the frame were a fraction out but a combination of very careful dremmel work and sand paper got it sorted.  I very nearly cut the donor fork steerer too short but caught the detail in the instructions from Igor just in time.

I experimented with thumb shifters but just couldn't get a good setup with them on the superman bars so plumped for bar end shifters in the end.  The MTB specific shifters from Microshift aren't cheap but they are really well made and work perfectly with the Deore XT rear mech from the donor bike (It had very silly gearing with an 11-50 cassette).

I started out with SPD pedals but very quickly switched to flats after flailing madly trying to get my feet in them and weaving like a drunk puppy all over the road on my first couple of tries at riding it.  Flats have worked out really well and I'll be sticking with them I think.  I'm still working on final details like where to mount the Garmin, lights, mudguard position etc.  Debating making the seat angle a bit lower, but that will mean I have to shorten the steerer tube to see over it, so it can wait for a bit I think.  Started on the highest position but found that reducing it a couple of steps actually made it easier to ride.

I've clocked up around 50km on it so far with only one fall when I messed up a gear change on a steepish hill and lost my balance.  Otherwise going well so far.  My only real issue atm is slow moving traffic, I still need more practice at slow speed balance, anything under 5mph and it gets very iffy and pulling away in traffic is still a bit hit and miss.  Doing 30 mins a day just practicing atm, with my longest ride being today, doing an hour mostly on quiet local lanes.  Looking forward to being able to get out longer and further with an eye on getting back to Audax next year.

In the mean time here is a picture of the Flying Banana as my wife has dubbed it.


That looks like a nice bike! I thought about a Velomotion when I was looking around for a new touring bent. I ended up building up a Pelso using a frameset from Socks - thanks again Socks!
I think you said you were on 11-speed; if you ever decide you want closer gear ratios the Microshift 11-32 11speed cassette works very nicely with the M7000 derailleur - I assume your derailleur would be similarly specced and is supposed to need a minimum of 40T for the largest cog. Shimano being ultra conservative again.
Those bars look quite high. Depends on your height but I find I get the most unobstructed forwards view with the bars as low as possible without risking hitting your shins (very painful!). I can usually get them low enough that the bars are roughly in a line from my eyes to the top of the derailleur post. That entails chopping a bit off the riser - measure twice, cut once!
Hope you rapidly take to the new machine!

Re: Getting started
« Reply #61 on: 27 September, 2023, 09:55:44 am »
That does look very nice  :thumbsup:. Your head looks to be almost directly above the rear hub. That can lead to a rearward weight bias which can affect handling. At 6'3" (?) there's probably not a lot you can do about that apart from trying the seat in a more upright position. Both on my Paseo and on my P-38 I have notice how the feel of the handling changes with the seat angle.

Kim

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Re: Getting started
« Reply #62 on: 27 September, 2023, 12:48:24 pm »
Re pedals; SPDs are the way forward, as you don't want to slip a foot down or spend energy keeping the feet locked in.  If you struggle to clip/unclip on the new bike (I know I did), try loosening the sod mechanism as much as the pedal will take.   You'll be able to unclip and.clip in no worries, but will have your feet held up for you.

I'm inclined to agree, but foot-slippage is merely annoying on a bike, rather than actively dangerous as on a tadpole trike.  If flats inspire confidence, then fine.  But reconsider foot retention once riding the bike is second nature, as having your legs supported is nice.

I'd also go as far to say that SPDs specifically are a bit rubbish on recumbents, as they develop play as the pedal (not the cleat) wears that results in an irritating click if your pedalling action doesn't maintain positive pressure on the pedal throughout the stroke (as it usually does on an upright).  This is how I ended up with Time ATAC (which are pleasingly click-free) on one recumbent, Look Keo on the other (because racing), SPD on my uprights (still the best when you need to clip in and out quickly for off-roading or mixing with pedestrians) and more cycling shoes than Imelda Marcos.

Re: Getting started
« Reply #63 on: 03 October, 2023, 08:31:23 pm »

That looks like a nice bike! I thought about a Velomotion when I was looking around for a new touring bent. I ended up building up a Pelso using a frameset from Socks - thanks again Socks!
I think you said you were on 11-speed; if you ever decide you want closer gear ratios the Microshift 11-32 11speed cassette works very nicely with the M7000 derailleur - I assume your derailleur would be similarly specced and is supposed to need a minimum of 40T for the largest cog. Shimano being ultra conservative again.
Those bars look quite high. Depends on your height but I find I get the most unobstructed forwards view with the bars as low as possible without risking hitting your shins (very painful!). I can usually get them low enough that the bars are roughly in a line from my eyes to the top of the derailleur post. That entails chopping a bit off the riser - measure twice, cut once!
Hope you rapidly take to the new machine!

It's got an 11-40 cassette on it atm.  I tried the 11-50 originally on the wheel but it actually lifts the chain too high in the 50t and it rubs the underside of the frame!

Still playing with seat position, I can see over the top of the bars ok atm, but if I recline the seat position any more then I'll need to cut the steerer so I'm putting that off for now.


Re: Getting started
« Reply #64 on: 03 October, 2023, 08:34:20 pm »
That does look very nice  :thumbsup:. Your head looks to be almost directly above the rear hub. That can lead to a rearward weight bias which can affect handling. At 6'3" (?) there's probably not a lot you can do about that apart from trying the seat in a more upright position. Both on my Paseo and on my P-38 I have notice how the feel of the handling changes with the seat angle.

Yeah, I am noticing the front end is a bit twitchy, especially at low speed or uphill although I am getting used to it.  Torque steer seems to be an issue but I'm learning to manage it and not grip the bars too tight in response.  As you say though there's not a lot I can do about it other than maybe try a 650b wheel on the front to lower the front end and change the weight distribution a bit.

Re: Getting started
« Reply #65 on: 03 October, 2023, 08:37:35 pm »
Re pedals; SPDs are the way forward, as you don't want to slip a foot down or spend energy keeping the feet locked in.  If you struggle to clip/unclip on the new bike (I know I did), try loosening the sod mechanism as much as the pedal will take.   You'll be able to unclip and.clip in no worries, but will have your feet held up for you.

I'm inclined to agree, but foot-slippage is merely annoying on a bike, rather than actively dangerous as on a tadpole trike.  If flats inspire confidence, then fine.  But reconsider foot retention once riding the bike is second nature, as having your legs supported is nice.

I'd also go as far to say that SPDs specifically are a bit rubbish on recumbents, as they develop play as the pedal (not the cleat) wears that results in an irritating click if your pedalling action doesn't maintain positive pressure on the pedal throughout the stroke (as it usually does on an upright).  This is how I ended up with Time ATAC (which are pleasingly click-free) on one recumbent, Look Keo on the other (because racing), SPD on my uprights (still the best when you need to clip in and out quickly for off-roading or mixing with pedestrians) and more cycling shoes than Imelda Marcos.

Yep, definitely sticking with flats for the time being.  I've got some SPD's but I'll leave them for now, especially as my flat shoes are really comfortable (Adidas Five Tens).  I'm also finding that I'm riding with amore mid-foot position on this compared to the uprights which I can do in the flats but SPD's would be trickier.

Re: Getting started
« Reply #66 on: 20 October, 2023, 10:26:46 pm »
After many years riding conventional bikes I've just been told I almost certainly have early onset arthritis in my neck and possibly both shoulders.  Still waiting for a full diagnosis but right now riding more than an hour leaves me in severe pain and with tingling sensations in both hands.

Assuming there is no medical fix I have been looking into recumbents as a solution to keep riding and was wondering if anyone had the same sort of issues and found the a 'bent helped keep them the road?

Also, are there any recumbent dealers in the UK? I'm struggling to find any other than Laid Back Bikes in Edinburgh.

Finally, any suggestions on what bike to go for?  Aiming for general riding with Audax's and some light touring thrown in.  I've see the Pelso / Brevet which would be in budget and appeals as I could transplant brakes, wheels, crankset etc from my current bike but, I've no real idea if it's any good or not.

Thanks in advance for any answers.

Saddle Safari in Marlow are ICE recumbent trike dealers and IMHO you wont get a better machine than an ICE, if you are anywhere North(ish) Oxfordshire I am happy to let you try mine (not for sale )
The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so sure of themselves, and wiser men so full of doubt.

Kim

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Re: Getting started
« Reply #67 on: 20 October, 2023, 10:37:23 pm »
I'll just leave this delightful video montage of assorted USAnians learning to ride a two-wheeled recumbent for the first time here: https://youtu.be/OZRI7-bl0nU?t=804

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Getting started
« Reply #68 on: 24 October, 2023, 09:35:26 pm »
I'll just leave this delightful video montage of assorted USAnians learning to ride a two-wheeled recumbent for the first time here: https://youtu.be/OZRI7-bl0nU?t=804

I'm not sure whether I should rejoice at the 2-wheeled-bent'ness or recoil in horror at the implication that only one of that crowd was not a rotund, white haired, (late) middle aged, male. I do not (fully) resemble that demographic
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Kim

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    • Fediverse
Re: Getting started
« Reply #69 on: 24 October, 2023, 09:53:53 pm »
I'll just leave this delightful video montage of assorted USAnians learning to ride a two-wheeled recumbent for the first time here: https://youtu.be/OZRI7-bl0nU?t=804

I'm not sure whether I should rejoice at the 2-wheeled-bent'ness or recoil in horror at the implication that only one of that crowd was not a rotund, white haired, (late) middle aged, male. I do not (fully) resemble that demographic

Yes, Cycle-Con does seem to attract a certain demographic.  Where else would you see an ICE flag and a "Trump 2024" hat on the same person...

Re: Getting started
« Reply #70 on: 26 October, 2023, 10:15:35 pm »
Quick update.

Surgery on my left shoulder last week to try and alleviate some of the issues.  It's not a long term fix and wont get me back on an upright but it should stop things getting any worse for the time being.

So, 'bent is now on the turbo for a few weeks while the shoulder recovers.  Taken the opportunity to fit a bodged up headrest as I was finding the tension in core from keeping my head up with the seat further back was becoming an issue.  Used the rails from an old saddle attached to the back of the seat with some pipe lagging for padding. 

Also using this as a chance to play with bar height and reach.  Currently got an 80mm stem on there but going to swap out for a 40mm or 30mm to improve my hand position as it's a bit of a stretch atm.  Once that's sorted then it's the big step of cutting the steerer to lower the bars.  Can't just lower the stem as the riser is too wide, it uses an insert on the top to attach the stem.  Will be taking it slowly in 5 or 10mm increments.

Once that's sorted then I can look at reclining the seat a bit further without having line of sight blocked by the top of the steerer and bars.  Will have to wait and see if that gives me enough extra aero benefit to beat my current 40mph downhill top speed.

Re: Getting started
« Reply #71 on: 26 October, 2023, 10:34:14 pm »
I'll just leave this delightful video montage of assorted USAnians learning to ride a two-wheeled recumbent for the first time here: https://youtu.be/OZRI7-bl0nU?t=804

I'm not sure whether I should rejoice at the 2-wheeled-bent'ness or recoil in horror at the implication that only one of that crowd was not a rotund, white haired, (late) middle aged, male. I do not (fully) resemble that demographic

Yes, Cycle-Con does seem to attract a certain demographic.  Where else would you see an ICE flag and a "Trump 2024" hat on the same person...

Was that Richard Branson first out the door?

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Getting started
« Reply #72 on: 27 October, 2023, 07:55:46 am »
Quick update.

Surgery on my left shoulder last week to try and alleviate some of the issues.  It's not a long term fix and wont get me back on an upright but it should stop things getting any worse for the time being.

So, 'bent is now on the turbo for a few weeks while the shoulder recovers.  Taken the opportunity to fit a bodged up headrest as I was finding the tension in core from keeping my head up with the seat further back was becoming an issue.  Used the rails from an old saddle attached to the back of the seat with some pipe lagging for padding. 

Also using this as a chance to play with bar height and reach.  Currently got an 80mm stem on there but going to swap out for a 40mm or 30mm to improve my hand position as it's a bit of a stretch atm.  Once that's sorted then it's the big step of cutting the steerer to lower the bars.  Can't just lower the stem as the riser is too wide, it uses an insert on the top to attach the stem.  Will be taking it slowly in 5 or 10mm increments.

Once that's sorted then I can look at reclining the seat a bit further without having line of sight blocked by the top of the steerer and bars.  Will have to wait and see if that gives me enough extra aero benefit to beat my current 40mph downhill top speed.
Not sure what bike you are talking about here, but I swapped out the front 700c wheel for a 26" on my M5 for forward vision purposes.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Getting started
« Reply #73 on: 27 October, 2023, 10:36:17 am »
Not sure what bike you are talking about here, but I swapped out the front 700c wheel for a 26" on my M5 for forward vision purposes.

This one.

Right, it took a while in the end but finally have a 'bent built and ridable.

In the end it took almost 6 weeks for ParcelForce to sort themselves out and get the frame delivered.  On the plus side it was in good condition and undamaged when it did finally get delivered.  On the down side it was the wrong colour!  At some point there had been a mix up at Velomotions end and I got a white frame and not a yellow one as ordered.  Rather than messing about returning it and getting mixed up with customs and ParcelForce again Igor agreed to refund me the cost of getting it resprayed here.  That took another week or so but I'm really happy with the end result.  There was nothing wrong with the quality of the original paintwork, it was just the wrong colour!

Assembly was a learning curve.  I used my Audax bike as a donor for running gear, wheels etc.  While it was mostly straight forward there were a couple of places were the tolerances on the frame were a fraction out but a combination of very careful dremmel work and sand paper got it sorted.  I very nearly cut the donor fork steerer too short but caught the detail in the instructions from Igor just in time.

I experimented with thumb shifters but just couldn't get a good setup with them on the superman bars so plumped for bar end shifters in the end.  The MTB specific shifters from Microshift aren't cheap but they are really well made and work perfectly with the Deore XT rear mech from the donor bike (It had very silly gearing with an 11-50 cassette).

I started out with SPD pedals but very quickly switched to flats after flailing madly trying to get my feet in them and weaving like a drunk puppy all over the road on my first couple of tries at riding it.  Flats have worked out really well and I'll be sticking with them I think.  I'm still working on final details like where to mount the Garmin, lights, mudguard position etc.  Debating making the seat angle a bit lower, but that will mean I have to shorten the steerer tube to see over it, so it can wait for a bit I think.  Started on the highest position but found that reducing it a couple of steps actually made it easier to ride.

I've clocked up around 50km on it so far with only one fall when I messed up a gear change on a steepish hill and lost my balance.  Otherwise going well so far.  My only real issue atm is slow moving traffic, I still need more practice at slow speed balance, anything under 5mph and it gets very iffy and pulling away in traffic is still a bit hit and miss.  Doing 30 mins a day just practicing atm, with my longest ride being today, doing an hour mostly on quiet local lanes.  Looking forward to being able to get out longer and further with an eye on getting back to Audax next year.

In the mean time here is a picture of the Flying Banana as my wife has dubbed it.



Re: Getting started
« Reply #74 on: 28 October, 2023, 10:19:17 am »
That does look very nice  :thumbsup:. Your head looks to be almost directly above the rear hub. That can lead to a rearward weight bias which can affect handling. At 6'3" (?) there's probably not a lot you can do about that apart from trying the seat in a more upright position. Both on my Paseo and on my P-38 I have notice how the feel of the handling changes with the seat angle.

Yeah, I am noticing the front end is a bit twitchy, especially at low speed or uphill although I am getting used to it.  Torque steer seems to be an issue but I'm learning to manage it and not grip the bars too tight in response.  As you say though there's not a lot I can do about it other than maybe try a 650b wheel on the front to lower the front end and change the weight distribution a bit.

Weight distribution is not really that much of an issue with recumbents when it comes to steering twitchyness [must be a better word], it has more to do with the relationship between the rake of the front wheel/the headtube angle and the consequent trail [all of which is better understood by doing so research as opposed to me trying to explain it]. But generally speaking - the more trail you have, the greater the sense of self-centring [especially at speed] but the more wheel flop will be apparent - which is the inclination for the bike to lean into a 'turn' once you start cornering. What this means going up a hill is a bike that has a tendency to fall over over more easily because trying to control that sense of wheel flop gets problematic when you're going that much slower - it feels like you're kind of 'fighting' with the steering. A small amount of trail is more likely to give a less stable bike at speed [perfectly safe, but more sensitive], but potentially far more stable when climbing. There may be some twitchiness, but the twitchiness doesn't necessarily mean less stability because there's far less wheel flop - the bike doesn't want to turn into the steering input.
On top of all that, you have distance of the handlebars from the headtube - another factor that can affect handling a lot.

If you change the front wheel this will affect the dynamic of all these things, which will, in turn affect the handling - for better or for worse [very often that latter].

It's kind of complicated geometry because simple formulas don't always translate into what a bike feels like to you, which is obviously important and like so many things, it's all about compromise and trying out different bikes to see what suits.

One thing I've found quite useful with recumbents is to project yourself forward with the pedals, the front of the bike leads, like the chainset is cutting through the air in front of you, and to pay less attention to what going on with the handlebars. When you're new to recumbents [especially two-wheeled versions] it's easy to get distracted by the movements of the handlebars - sounds a bit odd, but often there's a lot of self-centring that's going on all the time that you just have to let be. Same is true of uprights of course, but it's less obvious. Ride an upright bike and take a look at the front wheel when you're cycling and you will notice it is seldom tracking in a perfectly straight line - the front wheel is constantly moving from left to right in small increments, to keep you upright!  Try riding in a perfectly straight line keeping the front wheel locked.....you're not going to get very far!
Garry Broad