Author Topic: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?  (Read 7144 times)

PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« on: 03 September, 2023, 10:06:26 pm »
Interesting to see a number of the old guard dropping out on this years PBP 23.. 
Don't  think we all had the same problems of heat ,not eating enough and sleep depravation.....not just age ?
 But intereseting to know each others stories?

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #1 on: 04 September, 2023, 12:31:28 pm »
I sometimes feel i was on a different event to most people, because there are a lot of complaints about too many hills, or too hot, but I didn't think it was any worse than 2019.

It certainly was not as bad as LEL 2022 for either hills or heat (or sleep deprivation)

Eddington  127miles, 170km

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #2 on: 04 September, 2023, 02:33:23 pm »
I found it hot/ humid enough each afternoon for me to complain and, on the third day, to spend twenty minutes sitting on some grass in the shade. My stoker, on the other hand, seemed impervious. The lack of rain and warm nights benefited me. I wore arm-warmers for one night and didn't actually need to.

The route seemed about as lumpy as before with extra hills after Brest and a couple of flatter intermediate sections that didn’t seem familiar from the previous six editions.

Having spare legs on the bike meant that we kept moving fairly well, even when I wasn’t feeling particularly sparky. I slept at Brest for the first time and didn’t feel particularly sleep-deprived overall.

It was disappointing to find out that several of my friends DNFed. It used to be that 1:7 PBP starters would DNF, in a good year. It seems now that at least 1:4 starters DNF. After a while, those odds tend to catch up with people riding multiple PBPs. Many of those with multiple PBP finishes also include a HD or DNF in their palmares.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #3 on: 04 September, 2023, 03:02:49 pm »
It used to be that 1:7 PBP starters would DNF, in a good year. It seems now that at least 1:4 starters DNF. After a while, those odds tend to catch up with people riding multiple PBPs. Many of those with multiple PBP finishes also include a HD or DNF in their palmares.
79.5% finishing rate for UK riders, overall average reduced from 1:4 to 1:5 by less successful countries. Still worse than 1:7

Eddington  127miles, 170km

Dave_C

  • Trying to get rid of my belly... and failing!
Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #4 on: 04 September, 2023, 03:12:32 pm »
I found it hot in the day, but nice and comfortable in the night. I only put on leg and arm wamers on the second night from Loudeac to Half way to Brest. After that I was either shirt fully open or closed at night. Even with the Flo gillet on I was nearly too warm at night. I was slow but put that down to no commuting over the last four years (wfh) and covid leaving me less fit than last time. But this time I also resolved to enjoyt it to the fullest, stopping on the way back to make full use of the extra 10 hours.
@DaveCrampton < wot a twit.
http://veloviewer.com/athlete/421683/

Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #5 on: 04 September, 2023, 03:13:20 pm »
The heat got to me on the third day - I slowed to a crawl and was having to take frequent rests in the shade . Aware that I was going down with heat exhaustion, I made an unplanned stop at Mortagne for a cold shower and four hours' sleep. I felt like a new person afterwards and rode right through the night to the finish. It was still 25 degrees when I set off at 10pm, which made for lovely conditions on the final stretch.

Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #6 on: 04 September, 2023, 03:29:48 pm »
I think heat was mainly an issue for me due to the (attempted) speed. Started with group C and was dropped by the 'bunch' at about 20km. Had drunk both bottles dry by the first 'non' control at 120km, then promptly downed another full bottle before resuming. So, 2.25l of liquid in the first 4 hours. Way more than my body is used to. This had a knock on effect on appetite. Only really got that back on Monday night/Tuesday morning.

Heat, I can cope with, but add to that trying to barrel along at near 20mph for hour after hour... not on. Especially after the summer we've had, just not acclimatised for it. Nevertheless, far better that than cold and wet with headwinds.

Flâneur

  • ♫ P*nctured bicycle on a hillside desolate...
Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #7 on: 04 September, 2023, 03:44:09 pm »
It used to be that 1:7 PBP starters would DNF, in a good year. It seems now that at least 1:4 starters DNF. After a while, those odds tend to catch up with people riding multiple PBPs. Many of those with multiple PBP finishes also include a HD or DNF in their palmares.
79.5% finishing rate for UK riders, overall average reduced from 1:4 to 1:5 by less successful countries. Still worse than 1:7

Reduced from 1:5 to 1:4 shurely?

Hong Kong completions in time were 29%, I noticed. Most riders made Brest, though hors delai.

Finland had a 92% success rate.

Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #8 on: 04 September, 2023, 04:02:06 pm »
India, with 265 starters, had a success rate of just 48%!

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #9 on: 04 September, 2023, 04:12:44 pm »
compared to 14.6% in 2019...

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • Chartered accountant in 5 different decades
    • CET Ride Reports and Blogs
Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #10 on: 04 September, 2023, 04:30:06 pm »
I don't think the heat had a net impact.  I was bit slower on a couple of the days, but I was riding quicker at night because it was warm.   I did notice more impact on contact points because of the heat and humidity, which might have had a psychological impact had I not been riding with amicable company.
Eddington Numbers 131 (imperial), 185 (metric) 574 (furlongs)  116 (nautical miles)

Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #11 on: 04 September, 2023, 08:34:32 pm »
It was disappointing to find out that several of my friends DNFed. It used to be that 1:7 PBP starters would DNF, in a good year. It seems now that at least 1:4 starters DNF. After a while, those odds tend to catch up with people riding multiple PBPs. Many of those with multiple PBP finishes also include a HD or DNF in their palmares.

I can relate to that, 4 finishes and 4 DNF's on 8 PBP's.
The heat got me. I tend to have huge issues with the heat, not only during PBP. I packed in may 100km before the end of the Rando Imperator with still 6 hours and nearly 0 meters climbing to go. Simply because I couldn't even drink anymore due to the heat. (I would vomit immediately).
This time I managed to evade stomach problems, but at the cost of falling out of the time limit due to lot's of breaks in the shadow to cool down.
What was an issue for the slower 90-hour starters is the new run-in to Loudéac. Very hilly, when the 2nd night starts and the first fast 84 hours groups overtake you. This will have caused a number of DNF's in Loudéac.

Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #12 on: 04 September, 2023, 08:39:06 pm »
Another interesting Fact maybe the Start times .. ? The earlier starting riders had more day light to improve their av start speed ?  Does anyone know the amount of DNf's per Time wave ? 

felstedrider

Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #13 on: 04 September, 2023, 09:39:34 pm »
My 7th go.  Not as slow as my first 3, but slower than 2015 and 2019.  I was a lot fitter 4 years ago.

The heat on the first night got to me but it was forecast and could be planned around.  I drank a couple of bottles of water before starting and carried an extra half litre in my back pocket.  I refilled bottles at Mortagne and was then fine.  I didn’t find the afternoon/evening hear as hard for the next 2 days.  The last evening was warm and we had an additional bar stop on the way to Dreux where the thermometer showed 36 degrees inside the hall.  Overall I didn’t push as hard in the afternoons, making time overnight and early morning.

I did find the route hillier.  The new section from Brest to Carhaix and then to Loudeac were quite hard.  I used a 79” fixed in 15 and 19 and was very glad to have gone with gears this time.

Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #14 on: 05 September, 2023, 07:31:15 am »
Simply because I couldn't even drink anymore due to the heat. (I would vomit immediately).

I know you are an experienced audaxer, so I may teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here, but...

That is a symptom of hyponatremia (low salt levels). When you sweat you excrete salts. If you don't replace it, the level of salt in your body diminishes. Drinking more dilutes it even further. It's an extremely dangerous condition (can be fatal) so the body has a defense mechanism that makes you vomit up even plain water. I discovered this on the Spurn Head 400 on a very hot summer day about 10 years ago, since then I always take a salt replacement tablet in my water.
"There are proven ways; play on the certain knowledge of their superiority, the mystique of secret covenant, the esprit of shared suffering"

Flâneur

  • ♫ P*nctured bicycle on a hillside desolate...
Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #15 on: 05 September, 2023, 09:25:16 am »
Simply because I couldn't even drink anymore due to the heat. (I would vomit immediately).

I know you are an experienced audaxer, so I may teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here, but...

That is a symptom of hyponatremia (low salt levels). When you sweat you excrete salts. If you don't replace it, the level of salt in your body diminishes. Drinking more dilutes it even further. It's an extremely dangerous condition (can be fatal) so the body has a defense mechanism that makes you vomit up even plain water. I discovered this on the Spurn Head 400 on a very hot summer day about 10 years ago, since then I always take a salt replacement tablet in my water.

Agree. I had something similar to this on day of LEL 22, not to the point of vomiting, but I reached Louth with a beer belly of liquid my body was resolutely refusing to process. Struggled on to Barton where, having taken advice by phone, some salty snacks restored some sort of equilibrium. Later that night at Malton, I found a sachet of diarrhoea rehydration salts sitting on an unattended table; having checked with nearby tables that noone knew of its owner, I took it as 'a sign' and quaffed them down (or as much as I could stomach) - disgusting but sorted me right out.

This time, I took Boots rehydration sachets to PBP and used them and they were actually surprisingly palatable.

Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #16 on: 05 September, 2023, 10:15:06 am »
Strangely, according to PBP Results site, the average finish time for 2023 was 78:57 which is 32 minutes less than 79:29 in 2019. The status of about 180 riders still has to be sorted out and some of these, currently "Finished" (because they have a Rambouillet finish time) will become "DNF" (because they missed a lot of the other controls) but as most of these have "finish times" in the mid to high 80s the average will very likely come down further.

I don't like the heat either and my region has had a lot of summer rides cancelled in the last few years due to an "extreme weather" policy that says if it's predicted to be more than 38 on the course then rides 200kms and above must be cancelled. Is going to be an increasing problem. "Audax" centres of the future will be indoors with air conditioning and very big TV screens in front of "smart" trainers, might be Zwift Brevets, the 2051 PBP will be entirely indoors?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #17 on: 05 September, 2023, 11:11:42 am »
India, with 265 starters, had a success rate of just 48%!

For about a decade, USAnian randonneurs had additional qualification requirements to enter PBP because they had a high DNF rate at PBP87, around 50% DNF.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #18 on: 05 September, 2023, 11:24:42 am »
I vaugely remember reading about a complete change of ACP recognized organization for India for 2019, and their finish rate in 2019 being seen as an improvement.
May have been another country.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #19 on: 05 September, 2023, 11:31:20 am »
I vaugely remember reading about a complete change of ACP recognized organization for India for 2019, and their finish rate in 2019 being seen as an improvement.
May have been another country.

That was mostly because the previous Indian ACP correspondent was not listing qualifying brevets for Indians in the 2019 ACP calendar. After the 'palace coup' took place, there were lots of Indian BRMs listed, allowing a lot of Indians to start PBP19.

Several countries have had significant/ fractious changes of organisation as they have grown. RUSA late last century, AUK somewhat earlier and Thailand a couple of years before India.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #20 on: 05 September, 2023, 05:09:11 pm »
I think that the humidity caused more of a problem than the heat alone. I was sweating buckets but it wasn't cooling me down at all.
I managed to drink enough only due to the kindness of the many people along the road supplying water.
That is what makes PBP.  If anyone is riding in 2027, please take a few postcards for those roadside fans.

I also had a mal de l'estomac early on and although I recovered with some pharmaceutical intervention, I could never produce enough power to really get up the hills as I expected to. Like CET, the night time was better for me.
Still got round in time but only with  catnaps at the side of the road on the last night
(My preparation included two hilly 600s and the same hilly 300 (Beyond the Dales) twice.)

Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #21 on: 05 September, 2023, 05:16:04 pm »
Simply because I couldn't even drink anymore due to the heat. (I would vomit immediately).

I know you are an experienced audaxer, so I may teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here, but...

That is a symptom of hyponatremia (low salt levels). When you sweat you excrete salts. If you don't replace it, the level of salt in your body diminishes. Drinking more dilutes it even further. It's an extremely dangerous condition (can be fatal) so the body has a defense mechanism that makes you vomit up even plain water. I discovered this on the Spurn Head 400 on a very hot summer day about 10 years ago, since then I always take a salt replacement tablet in my water.

I think I nursemaided you around that one...

thing1

  • aka Joth
    • TandemThings
Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #22 on: 05 September, 2023, 05:23:59 pm »
Strangely, according to PBP Results site, the average finish time for 2023 was 78:57 which is 32 minutes less than 79:29 in 2019.

Thinking out loud, in previous years was the published time based on brevet card rather than chip timings? Certainly pre 2011 it must have been.
Not sure about 32min but it could easily knock 15mins off the average time if you discount the bit from the finishing mat through to finding the arrivée control stamp, what with photos, nattering , and lining up to park bike and get into the finish tent.
Also a few mins on average at the start, from the official start gun to getting over the timing mat.

Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #23 on: 05 September, 2023, 06:20:55 pm »
Simply because I couldn't even drink anymore due to the heat. (I would vomit immediately).

I know you are an experienced audaxer, so I may teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here, but...

That is a symptom of hyponatremia (low salt levels). When you sweat you excrete salts. If you don't replace it, the level of salt in your body diminishes. Drinking more dilutes it even further. It's an extremely dangerous condition (can be fatal) so the body has a defense mechanism that makes you vomit up even plain water. I discovered this on the Spurn Head 400 on a very hot summer day about 10 years ago, since then I always take a salt replacement tablet in my water.

I didn't know the latin name, but I already knew the principle. That's why I intuitively tried to force-drink while at a staffed control in a town, so help would be at hand. And near a railwaystation so the retreat was very easy. I take no risks with this. Better pack as be carted off to a hospital 20km later.
When I expect hot weather (I didn't in may for the Rando Imperator), I pack some sachets of ORS. During PBP I made myself a full bottle of ORS which I drank, a.o., between Fougères and Tinteniac. I bumped Tinteniac control and stopped at my usual supermarket about 10km after Tinteniac, one of the things I ate there was a full bag of crisps.
I've also remarked that using powdered sportsdrinks ups the max critical temperature limit for me by about 5 degrees.

Re: PBP 23 Slowness due to weather conditions?
« Reply #24 on: 06 September, 2023, 06:32:21 am »
Strangely, according to PBP Results site, the average finish time for 2023 was 78:57 which is 32 minutes less than 79:29 in 2019.

Thinking out loud, in previous years was the published time based on brevet card rather than chip timings?
……Also a few mins on average at the start, from the official start gun to getting over the timing mat.

Since electronic timing from 2011 maybe not, each riders start time reflects their time rolling over the start timing point, some up to 10 minutes after the “wave start time” and at the finish no-one has mentioned any computer or even bit of paper for recording a time, just a flick through the card to see if most stamps are there and hand back the card with the medal an off the rider goes.