Author Topic: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands  (Read 5827 times)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #25 on: 30 September, 2023, 05:15:10 pm »
QG, you think he could have found something "wilder" if he'd tried – but what do you think of what he did find? Including the people, even the ones not called Jan, and the fries with mayonnaise, etc?

Mayonnaise is the sperm of Satan and should be banned...

I don't know many Jan's...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #26 on: 30 September, 2023, 05:25:09 pm »
I like mayo on my chips

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #27 on: 30 September, 2023, 05:30:50 pm »
I like mayo on my chips

The Dutch don't eat their fries with majo. They mayo with fries.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #28 on: 30 September, 2023, 06:02:46 pm »
Fries are wrong but will be eaten through hunger. But I'm now getting the idea of egg mayo on (chunky) chips.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #29 on: 30 September, 2023, 06:16:02 pm »


I suggest google image search for "patat oorlog" and "kapsalon" to see the evil the Dutch wreak in this regard.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #30 on: 30 September, 2023, 07:13:05 pm »
QG, you think he could have found something "wilder" if he'd tried – but what do you think of what he did find? Including the people, even the ones not called Jan, and the fries with mayonnaise, etc?

Mayonnaise is the sperm of Satan and should be banned...
You are soooooo wrong.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #31 on: 30 September, 2023, 08:02:01 pm »
My response (as an actual Dutch person): there is no wilderness in the Netherlands, even the places that QG mentions are tiny specks of nature in what is mostly a very urban country. However, there are many interesting things to see if you know what to look for. Personally, I find it fascinating how humans have completely transformed a cold, damp swamp into one of the most productive agricultural areas in the world. And our efforts to keep out the water, in particular the Oosterscheldekering  (a storm surge barrier), contain some of the most impressive human-built structures that I have seen. But I can see that someone who is new to the country can't appreciate that (but hopefully it will come).

[And mayonnaise and peanut sauce are two of the greatest things to put on your deep fried potatoes. If you don't like mayonnaise, then order a "patatje pinda" instead.]

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #32 on: 30 September, 2023, 08:31:22 pm »
My response (as an actual Dutch person): there is no wilderness in the Netherlands, even the places that QG mentions are tiny specks of nature in what is mostly a very urban country. However, there are many interesting things to see if you know what to look for. Personally, I find it fascinating how humans have completely transformed a cold, damp swamp into one of the most productive agricultural areas in the world. And our efforts to keep out the water, in particular the Oosterscheldekering  (a storm surge barrier), contain some of the most impressive human-built structures that I have seen. But I can see that someone who is new to the country can't appreciate that (but hopefully it will come).

[And mayonnaise and peanut sauce are two of the greatest things to put on your deep fried potatoes. If you don't like mayonnaise, then order a "patatje pinda" instead.]

Ketchup. A little bit of salt (Dutch fries never have enough salt).

And agreed re lack of wild places. There is nothing natural about the Netherlands. The whole country has been carved out of a swamp by shear force of Will (and quite a few people called Jan, and the odd Cornelius).

Even the "wild" places like the Veluwe and the Utrechtse Heuvelrug were managed for hundreds of years to produce wood for pit props for the minors of Limburg.

Friesland and Groningen that the author of this article toured in were reclaimed, originally by placing sticks in the ground to slow the water and cause the water ways to silt up. The homes were built on mounds, called terps, surrounded by swamp, and waterways. (This is for the benefit of the non Dutch here, not me telling slugbait the history of his country, that I reserve for residents of the Randstad).

In much of Europe there is no natural land. Even the Highlands of Scotland have been shaped by grazing.

Here in .NL the suggestion to return an area of dunes back to how they were before men fucked with them, has met with lots of resistance. Because it means felling over ten thousand pine trees. Pine trees planted artificially.

For many of us in western Europe, we wouldn't recognize our land of it was actually in anyway close to what it "naturally" was before humans fucked with it.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #33 on: 30 September, 2023, 08:38:07 pm »

And as for my first point. The Netherlands isn't a dense country. It's an empty city. At least in the west

https://brilliantmaps.com/empty-netherlands/

One of the amazing things about cycling in the Netherlands is I can ride for half an hour and have left the city behind and be out in green land.

J

But I don't find that particularly amazing. I can be in the countryside (green if we've had rain, sometimes pale yellow in a hot summer) in 5 minutes cycling from my city. Crossing it and going out the other side is less than 30 minutes (unless you use our particularly stupid pop-up cyclelanes!) Greenery like your photo is where I walk the dog every night! (and behind me will be the rodeos and drug gangs of the ZUP, but only behind me, not all round!)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #34 on: 30 September, 2023, 08:43:00 pm »


But I don't find that particularly amazing. I can be in the countryside (green if we've had rain, sometimes pale yellow in a hot summer) in 5 minutes cycling from my city. Crossing it and going out the other side is less than 30 minutes (unless you use our particularly stupid pop-up cyclelanes!) Greenery like your photo is where I walk the dog every night! (and behind me will be the rodeos and drug gangs of the ZUP, but only behind me, not all round!)

Now try that in central London.

Or Paris.

Or Manchester?

Or new York.

How big is your city ?

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #35 on: 30 September, 2023, 09:37:01 pm »
I cAn does that in Birmingham thoughbut.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #36 on: 30 September, 2023, 11:59:50 pm »
"The Netherlands is heaven for cyclists, but it’s a certain hell for bikepackers."

No you just suck at planning. And are unable to appreciate beauty.

I'd suggest that his appreciation of recumbents is at least as bad as his appreciation of the Netherlands.  For an ostensibly "there's more than one type of cycling" article, it spends a lot of time suggesting that there's one true type of cycling.

Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #37 on: 01 October, 2023, 01:26:06 pm »
But expecting a challenging  rough stuff  experience

Bike packing has long since ceased being used to only describe rough stuff off road. It’s used a lot now for trips which are basically indistinguishable from an on road tour.


The earliest reference that I know to "bikepacking" ii Bikepacking: Everybody's Guide to Bicycle Camping", by William Sanders, published by Rodale in1982.... he advocated using panniers, and was not conviced by mountain bikes.

"Bike Tripping, by Tom Cuthbertson, Random House, 1972 might have used the term, but I can't remember.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #38 on: 01 October, 2023, 01:42:19 pm »
Perfectly Good Gentleman’s Mountain Bicycles were something of a novelty item in 1982, at least for BRITONS.  It was around that time that the sainted Mr Ballantine smuggled a couple of Ritchey frames into the country and had them built up by Evans in The Cut for Tim Gartside and A.N. Other* to ride from London to Lagos via that big desert they have now.  Possibly the first Perfectly Good Gentleman’s Mountain Bicycles in the UK.

* I've still got the copy of “Bicycle” magazine with the story in it but it’s at Larrington Towers and I am not.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #39 on: 01 October, 2023, 01:56:28 pm »


I suggest google image search for "patat oorlog" and "kapsalon" to see the evil the Dutch wreak in this regard.

J
Patatje oorlog looks great, though I'll have mine without ketchup.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #40 on: 01 October, 2023, 02:07:51 pm »
Certainly no more of a crime against chips than poutine.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #41 on: 01 October, 2023, 02:24:08 pm »
My response (as an actual Dutch person): there is no wilderness in the Netherlands, even the places that QG mentions are tiny specks of nature in what is mostly a very urban country. However, there are many interesting things to see if you know what to look for. Personally, I find it fascinating how humans have completely transformed a cold, damp swamp into one of the most productive agricultural areas in the world. And our efforts to keep out the water, in particular the Oosterscheldekering  (a storm surge barrier), contain some of the most impressive human-built structures that I have seen. But I can see that someone who is new to the country can't appreciate that (but hopefully it will come).

[And mayonnaise and peanut sauce are two of the greatest things to put on your deep fried potatoes. If you don't like mayonnaise, then order a "patatje pinda" instead.]

Ketchup. A little bit of salt (Dutch fries never have enough salt).

And agreed re lack of wild places. There is nothing natural about the Netherlands. The whole country has been carved out of a swamp by shear force of Will (and quite a few people called Jan, and the odd Cornelius).

Even the "wild" places like the Veluwe and the Utrechtse Heuvelrug were managed for hundreds of years to produce wood for pit props for the minors of Limburg.

Friesland and Groningen that the author of this article toured in were reclaimed, originally by placing sticks in the ground to slow the water and cause the water ways to silt up. The homes were built on mounds, called terps, surrounded by swamp, and waterways. (This is for the benefit of the non Dutch here, not me telling slugbait the history of his country, that I reserve for residents of the Randstad).

In much of Europe there is no natural land. Even the Highlands of Scotland have been shaped by grazing.

Here in .NL the suggestion to return an area of dunes back to how they were before men fucked with them, has met with lots of resistance. Because it means felling over ten thousand pine trees. Pine trees planted artificially.

For many of us in western Europe, we wouldn't recognize our land of it was actually in anyway close to what it "naturally" was before humans fucked with it.

J
So you agree with the recumbentpacking author, there is no wild land in the Netherlands! His complaints in this regard at least were justified! ??!!

Not that"wild" and "natural" are not necessarily the same. The Highlands of Scotland might not be "natural" but they can still be quite "wild".
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #42 on: 01 October, 2023, 02:30:19 pm »
"The Netherlands is heaven for cyclists, but it’s a certain hell for bikepackers."

No you just suck at planning. And are unable to appreciate beauty.

I'd suggest that his appreciation of recumbents is at least as bad as his appreciation of the Netherlands.  For an ostensibly "there's more than one type of cycling" article, it spends a lot of time suggesting that there's one true type of cycling.
Well, he starts at "Socially I’ll never recover from riding a recumbent," so he's not coming at it with an open mind, but ends at "nothing is really that dorky and embarrassing if it grants you access to something otherwise inaccessible" so I wouldn't say he finishes with an open mind but one grudgingly ajar, which is movement.

And obviously there is one true type of cycling. It's bikepacking. If you get three bikepackers together, they'll give you fifteen different interpretations of what that is, not all of which will be mutually exclusive.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #43 on: 01 October, 2023, 03:02:13 pm »
The idea that riding a recumbent is dorky is just weird.  It’s not on a recumbent that you wear padded Lycra and padded gloves and a weird top with 3 pockets on the back. ;D


Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #44 on: 01 October, 2023, 08:58:34 pm »
Patatje oorlog looks great, though I'll have mine without ketchup.

"Patatje oorlog" is chips with peanut sauce and mayonnaise and, depending on where you're from, some raw diced onions. This is something we have strong opinions on: I don't want any onions near my patatje oorlog. Same with "patatje speciaal". For me that's mayonnaise, curry ketchup and onions. Some people seem to think it's with regular ketchup  ::-) And then there's the whole patat versus friet question. Northerners like me call it patat(je), but in the South and Flanders it's called friet.

I find this a more interesting talking point than what one reluctant recumbent rider thinks of bikepacking in the Netherlands.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #45 on: 01 October, 2023, 09:07:58 pm »
I googled "pataat oorlog" (QG's spelling) and what I found said that it can also include ketchup. That's why I said I'd rather have mine without.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/foods/patatje-oorlog-dutch-war-fries
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #46 on: 02 October, 2023, 05:43:47 am »
Ketchup. A little bit of salt (Dutch fries never have enough salt).
The amount of salt on Dutch fries takes into account the fact that you dunk them into mayonnaise (salty)  O:-)

Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #47 on: 02 October, 2023, 09:25:50 am »
I googled "pataat oorlog" (QG's spelling) and what I found said that it can also include ketchup. That's why I said I'd rather have mine without.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/foods/patatje-oorlog-dutch-war-fries

No problem, I didn't even know that some include ketchup as well. That's pretty unusual where I'm from.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Recumbentpacking in the Netherlands
« Reply #48 on: 02 October, 2023, 09:29:53 am »
Pretty sure I've had chips with chopped onion in Poland – but with ketchup, which made it bad. Not sure how I feel about satay on chips, but there's only one way to find out!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.