Author Topic: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow  (Read 889 times)

Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« on: 30 August, 2024, 06:04:18 pm »
You may've read elsewhere on here that I'm trying to do as the subject matter states.
I put down Bee Bombs (which contain wildflower seeds) a couple of years ago, but not much (nothing) happened.
I think that this is because of my lawn, which is couch grass, which isn't technically a grass at all.
It is a weed, and I think it is preventing my wildflower seeds from doing their thing.
So the plan is, to get rid of the couch grass.
I have limited contact with someone that is well versed in these matters.
Her comment to me when I said I was trying to get rid of couch grass was a noticeably arid  'Good luck with that'.
Her advice to me was as follows:

Cut down as much of the couch grass as poss.
Lay cardboard over this and wet the cardboard .
On top of the cardboard lay a membrane.
Apply a low nutrition soil on top of the membrane.
Plant the Bee Bombs in this soil and wait.

As I've mentioned, I have limited contact with this knowledgable person so, unsurprisingly, I have a question to post here.
Is there any reason that I shouldn't apply weedkiller to the couch grass before covering it with cardboard and following the remainder of the process outlined above.
My understanding is that the weedkiller will eventually leech into the soil below it, but shouldn't affect the low-nutrition topsoil which I'll be spreading on top of the membrane, prior to planting my Bee Bombs.
If I'm wildly wrong with that, could someone please let me know.

TIA

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #1 on: 30 August, 2024, 06:22:24 pm »
Those of us of a Green persuasion utterly deprecate the use of weed killer.

If it is couch grass, it will have long roots almost like narrow-gauge cream-coloured brake cables.

Like this.

Edit: but it is an utter bastard to get rid of. I've seen those roots grow through pretty well every sort of tuber/root veg other than parsnips. Even seen couch grass spear its way through a rhubarb crown.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #2 on: 30 August, 2024, 07:00:18 pm »
Thanks, Wow.
I'm genuinely curious - why is weedkiller such a no-no?

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #3 on: 30 August, 2024, 07:08:39 pm »
Lots of councils are still spraying glyphosate in public.

Quote
Approval for glyphosate use in the EU expired in December 2023, following an extension to the renewal assessment process in 2022. In the UK, the current expiry date is set to be December 2025, following a three-year extension as the UK's post-Brexit pesticides regulatory regime was developed.

https://www.britishpotato.co.uk/news/glyphosate-ban-would-lead-to-difficult-trade-offs/#:~:text=Approval%20for%20glyphosate%20use%20in,pesticides%20regulatory%20regime%20was%20developed.

It's been known to be dangerous for years, but because the Tories extended its use, it will be present in people's garden sheds for years to come.

Weedkillers which are supposedly "neutralised" on contact with soil apparently just aren't - they are still toxic chemicals. I'm no chemist, nor a gardener, but I remember my dad having misgivings about it 30 years ago.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #4 on: 30 August, 2024, 07:19:36 pm »
Ta.

Mrs Pingu

  • Who ate all the pies? Me
    • Twitter
Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #5 on: 30 August, 2024, 07:33:31 pm »
Glyphosate kills bees.

Some suggestions here https://www.rhs.org.uk/weeds/couch-grass
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #6 on: 30 August, 2024, 07:39:26 pm »
Bee bombs seem like overpriced gimmick. They are just a few seeds mixed with some clay/soil. Better just buying some wildflower seeds. And check what it actually contains, some of them are not really native or not suited to your conditions.

Though you need to prepare the ground properly first. ie remove most of the grass so you have bare earth to start with.
A meadow is mostly grass anyway. It is just balancing it out, so some flowers can grow. Maybe yellow rattle will help, it is parasitic on grass.

Could help if you plant plugs to get it started, as well as the seeds.

Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #7 on: 30 August, 2024, 07:54:36 pm »
I don't know the specifics of your existant grass (or the size of the patch), but when we did this I think it involved a day of turf removal and turning over, and a big bag of meadow flower seed.

Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk


Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #8 on: 30 August, 2024, 08:04:10 pm »
I'm not much of a gardener, but many years ago we had an allotment infested with couch grass. I'll start by saying if you want to get rid of it, you'll get very fit.

The method of covering it you describe in the OP will work eventually, but you're talking many years.

Instead of weedkiller, remove the top matt of grass manually with a sharp spade, taking care not to remove too much topsoil. Then work carefully with a fork to loosen the soil, not too deep, then you'll be able to grab the heads of the roots and gently pull them out. If the soil's not too heavy and you've loosened it in the surrounding area, you'll be able to tease out the long white roots. Beware that every single tiny piece of white root left in the soil will regrow, and quickly. Don't put them in the compost - either dry them for a few weeks on a wire net in the sun, or put them in the bin.

Leave for a few weeks then come back and do the same again.

At that point, you have a choice of putting down the cardboard (in the past old carpet was also an option, but nowadays it will be synthetic and/or have a foam backing) and grow your wildflowers on top. Alternatively, sow the wildflowers in the nicely dug-over soil and let the couch grass that's left be a part of the wild meadow.

I guess now is not the time to sow anything, so you could prepare as above, cover with whatever you have to hand (black plastic works well), then in the spring when you lift it off you'll have a matt of white roots trying to find the light that can be lifted out fairly easily, then continue as above.
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #9 on: 30 August, 2024, 08:07:31 pm »
Glyphosate kills bees.

Some suggestions here https://www.rhs.org.uk/weeds/couch-grass
The glyphosate would be beneath a layer of cardboard and beneath a synthetic membrane. Does that still count?

Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #10 on: 30 August, 2024, 08:10:11 pm »
I'm not much of a gardener, but many years ago we had an allotment infested with couch grass. I'll start by saying if you want to get rid of it, you'll get very fit.

The method of covering it you describe in the OP will work eventually, but you're talking many years.

Instead of weedkiller, remove the top matt of grass manually with a sharp spade, taking care not to remove too much topsoil. Then work carefully with a fork to loosen the soil, not too deep, then you'll be able to grab the heads of the roots and gently pull them out. If the soil's not too heavy and you've loosened it in the surrounding area, you'll be able to tease out the long white roots. Beware that every single tiny piece of white root left in the soil will regrow, and quickly. Don't put them in the compost - either dry them for a few weeks on a wire net in the sun, or put them in the bin.

Leave for a few weeks then come back and do the same again.

At that point, you have a choice of putting down the cardboard (in the past old carpet was also an option, but nowadays it will be synthetic and/or have a foam backing) and grow your wildflowers on top. Alternatively, sow the wildflowers in the nicely dug-over soil and let the couch grass that's left be a part of the wild meadow.

I guess now is not the time to sow anything, so you could prepare as above, cover with whatever you have to hand (black plastic works well), then in the spring when you lift it off you'll have a matt of white roots trying to find the light that can be lifted out fairly easily, then continue as above.
Christ! This was supposed to be the 'looks-pretty-zero-maintenance' solution.
It is turning out to be anything but!
There's a reason I stick to machines and have never successfully grown anything  ::-).

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #11 on: 30 August, 2024, 09:14:17 pm »
How about laying down thick plastic or tarpaulin over the grass and leaving it in place for a few months.  Surely that would kill it off?

And then simply remove and plant your wildflowers.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #12 on: 31 August, 2024, 07:40:44 am »
Glyphosate is present in human urine and Germans, as well as the Danish, have been pissing it for years. It is believed to have links with Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma..

Weedkillers are so concentrated in the ground water in some places in Denmark, that they have to import drinking water from elsewhere to mix with the local stuff in order to bring concentrations below safe limits.

Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #13 on: 31 August, 2024, 08:39:26 am »
Lots of councils are still spraying glyphosate in public.

Quote
Approval for glyphosate use in the EU expired in December 2023, following an extension to the renewal assessment process in 2022. In the UK, the current expiry date is set to be December 2025, following a three-year extension as the UK's post-Brexit pesticides regulatory regime was developed.


https://www.britishpotato.co.uk/news/glyphosate-ban-would-lead-to-difficult-trade-offs/#:~:text=Approval%20for%20glyphosate%20use%20in,pesticides%20regulatory%20regime%20was%20developed.

It's been known to be dangerous for years, but because the Tories extended its use, it will be present in people's garden sheds for years to come.

Weedkillers which are supposedly "neutralised" on contact with soil apparently just aren't - they are still toxic chemicals. I'm no chemist, nor a gardener, but I remember my dad having misgivings about it 30 years ago.
Use malt vinegar instead. A lot cheaper, and what is left over can be used on your fish 'n' chips.

Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #14 on: 31 August, 2024, 08:45:43 am »
Honestly I've been thinking the same, have an area I'd like to do but as it's had chickens on its going to be for too rich soil and has ground elder

Am considering trying to grow my own wildflower turf which can be laid on top

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #15 on: 31 August, 2024, 08:59:10 am »
Rubble gardens are good for wildflowers, but they require the removal of topsoil and application of......you guessed it......rubble and sand. This makes them easy to weed and gives the low nutrient conditions which wildflowers enjoy. Ive got one on the go at the moment which I've just left to receive the seeds blowing off the sheds green roof.

I have planted a couple of wildflower green roofs, one here which gets a lot of water and is incredible and one at mums which is struggling with the drier conditions in East London and I may have to plant some sedum to help it along.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/jul/28/hardcore-landscaping-how-to-grow-a-garden-on-sand-gravel-and-concrete

Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #16 on: 31 August, 2024, 11:13:38 am »
How about laying down thick plastic or tarpaulin over the grass and leaving it in place for a few months.  Surely that would kill it off?


It will kill most things, but not couch grass. The leaves will wilt but it will spring back from the roots as vigorous as before.
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

Mrs Pingu

  • Who ate all the pies? Me
    • Twitter
Re: Swapping my lawn for a wildflower meadow
« Reply #17 on: 31 August, 2024, 01:33:21 pm »
I was wondering about acetic acid earlier but no idea if that would work.

I had all these great ideas when we moved into the new Pingu Towers (3 years ago today, in fact!). But it's heavy clay and up here in the Heathen lands it spend probably about 4 to 6 months of the year saturated with water.

I did no mow from the beginning, expecting great things and sowed some yellow rattle that my brother gave me. I also attempted to put some snakes head fritillary bulbs in the lawn until I realised how tough it was. The yellow rattle has still never come up and the bulb struggled to get thru the turf.

Nothing really grew until last year. I suspect the previous owner had been using lawn weedkiller or something.
Last year I started to get some clover grow in one area and a little self heal. This year the clover is coming up in more areas, same for the self heal and some creeping buttercup (which I don't really want but...) Some of the yarrow I tried planting last year has actually come up and flowered, and there's a GBFO prickly wild thistle which I wouldn't have chosen.
Anyway, the bees love the clover, the self heal and the thistles, so I'm learning to love what I've got. We've had a hedgehog visiting us most nights this summer and it seems to like snuffling about in the mounds of clover, so we must be doing something right.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.