Base training

[rob]

12 days since I last got on the turbo but back on it tonight.

I have entered a 25 in a few weeks so time for a bit of mid-panic training.

How different is a 25 compared to a 10?  I've done a few 10s, and I want to have a go at a 25, but I've no idea what to expect. Do you change your gearing or position or anything, or just rock up and ride very slightly easier?

I use the same gear for a 10 and 25, for DC courses anyway.   The 25 is slightly different pacing wise - you need to keep close to threshold and then only lift with 15 odd mins to go (if you can).   To be honest, I'm a bit shit at 10s.   I simply can't get it all out in that space of time.   I only ride the odd 10 and then I combine it with a training ride.

[rob]

12 days since I last got on the turbo but back on it tonight.

Not entirely horrible but still a bit of a shock to the system.

[L CC]

I had a procedure on my foot yesterday- steroid injection to cure the hotfoot.

I can't walk. There will be no turbo in my immediate future. FFS. I'm due an FTP test this week. I guess at least I'll be rested.

[simonp]

I hope it helps. I had a steroid injection in my wrist last year and it was very helpful. I was advised to not turbo etc for a week, which was annoying, but it was worth it to be able to race through the summer without pain.

[L CC]

I had (years ago) steroid injections in my elbow to cure tennis elbow (brought on from milking cows) which was successful, but this procedure doesn't have a great record. The consultant recommended it as it's easy, cheap and minimally invasive. If this doesn't work they will be breaking a bone in my foot.

[DuncanM]

Breaking a bone sounds pretty brutal, hope the injection resolves it.
My best FTP tests have come after a week or so of rest (with maybe a quick blast the day before to get things going again). But if you've got the fitness, testing badly is no big deal - just re-do it after a week or so when you feel that you are back in the swing of things...

[DuncanM]

Something's better than nothing, right? I've slept terribly all week, so put sleeping above my TR rides (should have been a recovery week anyway). Today I dragged myself out of bed and picked a random 30 minute workout, just so I didn't have a blank week on the calendar!  It was actually quite fun (and I turned it up to 102% for the second set of intervals) - I like VO2 work when my legs are reasonably fresh. Could probably have gone harder on all of them. Makes me wonder why I have chosen TTs as my specialist subject this year!
https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/54812057-baird-3

[simonp]

Having found Wednesday's Antelope -1 a bit easy I have bumped FTP up to 230.

Tomorrow will find out if this was a mistake as Palisade is the planned ride.

[Frank9755]

I'm losing motivation with TR.
I did a ramp test on Tuesday but I screwed it up by switching to my small chainring by mistake when I was in the last 2 or 3 minutes.  I got going again but, knowing my score would likely be compromised, didn't have the will to go all the way so I stopped earlier than I could have done, so registered a 5% lower FTP. 
And I've not been back on the turbo since! 
Had a fun ride on Tuesday afternoon taking a clubmate who has gone blind out on a tandem, and a blast into town and back for a meeting yesterday. 
I could do another ramp test and go from there.  Or I could give up the turbo now that the weather is warmer and just ride outside.  I think I'll probably do the latter.   It will mean losing some focus in training but I'll enjoy it more and will have a better idea how to structure rides having done the TR stuff. 

[DuncanM]

TR now has some beta program that allows you to substitute outside rides for Turbo rides. It actually simplifies the ride so you can do it on the road (stuff like 15 seconds all out followed by 15 seconds rest, repeated 50 times is not going to be doable on the road). If you want to train on the road, rather than just go for rides (and going or rides is nicer!), maybe it's worth a try?

I'm losing motivation because my FTP is static. I don't think I'm being consistent enough with my volume, but life keeps getting in the way. I also need to train my neck so I can hold the TT position, and that's really not appetising! I am away this weekend, but have a ramp test scheduled for Tuesday - moment of truth for how this block has gone.

[rob]

I got back on the turbo this week after 12 days off.   The Tuesday session was hard.   As I had a client event on Thursday night I tried to do an extra session on Wednesday and just gave up.

I feel great on the road at the moment and have enjoyed the recent audaxes, but turbo work just isn't much fun.   I do have some TTs coming up, though, so that should give me some motivation back.

[rdtrdt]

Makes me wonder why I have chosen TTs as my specialist subject this year!

I've honestly no idea why anyone who's not getting paid for it rides any TT ever!

My TR work is all so that come sunny days with blue skies I can go out and feel good on the bike, riding down (or mainly up!) quiet picturesque lanes out in the sticks, with a smile on my face.

Testers are all totally mental 

[rdtrdt]

Or I could give up the turbo now that the weather is warmer and just ride outside.  I think I'll probably do the latter.   It will mean losing some focus in training but I'll enjoy it more and will have a better idea how to structure rides having done the TR stuff.

Sounds like a good plan. There's little point in ploughing on with a "plan" that you've no enthusiasm for and is proving bad for the soul...

For most of us, the whole point of the bike is to have "fun" (however you define that), so we feel better about ourselves.  All the monitoring and data-driven regimented work that TR relies on can be very good for making fitness progress, but it can also fairly easily tip over into making cycling a joyless pursuit IMO. No prizes for pointless martyrdom.

Best to listen to your own body and your own mind: if your enthusiasm is waning, I'd knock it on the head for a while and go back to doing something you enjoy more, eg. cycling outside free of the numbers. Good luck and have fun.

[Frank9755]

TR now has some beta program that allows you to substitute outside rides for Turbo rides. It actually simplifies the ride so you can do it on the road (stuff like 15 seconds all out followed by 15 seconds rest, repeated 50 times is not going to be doable on the road). If you want to train on the road, rather than just go for rides (and going or rides is nicer!), maybe it's worth a try?

Can you send me a link to that, or describe how to find it? 
It sounds like it would be great but I had a search around on their site and couldn't find it.

Good luck on Tuesday!

[DuncanM]

TR now has some beta program that allows you to substitute outside rides for Turbo rides. It actually simplifies the ride so you can do it on the road (stuff like 15 seconds all out followed by 15 seconds rest, repeated 50 times is not going to be doable on the road). If you want to train on the road, rather than just go for rides (and going or rides is nicer!), maybe it's worth a try?

Can you send me a link to that, or describe how to find it? 
It sounds like it would be great but I had a search around on their site and couldn't find it.

Good luck on Tuesday!

There's info on it here: https://forum.trainerroad.com/t/introducing-outside-workouts/14411
I'm not sure if the information has made it to their main website yet.

There's a peculiar form of enjoyment in testing. Plus it's the cheapest and least risky way to compete (and you can't get spat out the back). I might have a go at 'cross this year - I suspect many would view that as somewhat mental too.

[simonp]

The outside workouts thing looks like a stepping stone towards device integrated outdoor workouts.

What they've done is create a bunch of new workouts which are substituted for the plan workout if you select the outside option. These are in the form of RPE or power targets with a text description of how to do the workout. Generally this means workouts with very short intervals are replaced with something more suitable for outdoors. Also endurance rides are made longer outside, because in theory it takes longer to get the same training benefit outdoors due to not being able to pedal consistently for as long (traffic, etc).

Not tried it yet - I'm just happy to do steady rides outdoors and keep the structure indoors.

[Frank9755]

Thanks Duncan - got it. 
Now I'll explore...

[DuncanM]

There is some sort of integration to your Garmin coming (if it's not already here) which means that you can upload the TR workout to your Garmin and it will tell you when to go hard and when to go easy. It's Garmin specific as these integrations are through the vendor's proprietary API (I don't think Wahoo have this yet).

[Phil W]

I tested just before the Easter Arrow and my FTP had climbed further to 251w.  Nothing on turbo this week as PBP 300 qualifier tomorrow and wanted to be nice and rested.  Will get back on it at new intensities next week. Got my lung function study down at Kings  next week then a clear run till mid May and my PBP 400 qualifier.

[simonp]

I have to say I'm not 100% convinced by the ramp test. I'll have to try 2x8m again at some point.

[DuncanM]

I have to say I'm not 100% convinced by the ramp test. I'll have to try 2x8m again at some point.

I think it depends on what sort of power profile you have. It was pretty good for me last year, but this year, focusing much more on sustained power and doing it in aero, I think I've lost some of the top end, and so the ramp test is less of a reliable indicator. I guess it's possible some people are just VO2 Max monsters and test beyond hei aerobic capacities as well...

[simonp]

I have to say I'm not 100% convinced by the ramp test. I'll have to try 2x8m again at some point.

I think it depends on what sort of power profile you have. It was pretty good for me last year, but this year, focusing much more on sustained power and doing it in aero, I think I've lost some of the top end, and so the ramp test is less of a reliable indicator. I guess it's possible some people are just VO2 Max monsters and test beyond hei aerobic capacities as well...

I've done a VO2max test where they estimated FTP not as a % of the max minute as with TR, but from gas exchange ratios.

I tested at 220W FTP on my first test. Topped out at around 320W.

Second test, 240W FTP, topped out at around 300W with a lower VO2max.

Takeaway: the fatigue of all the riding I'd been doing resulted in a lower final minute despite having a higher threshold.

By the summer I was testing at 260W threshold, and had still not increased the top-end.

[DuncanM]

Ramp test today. Ouch.
Up from 243 to 246. Might have gone a bit higher if I hadn't done it fasted at 6am. Unfortunately we didn't have any bananas, which are basically the only fuel I can tolerate at that time and followed by hard efforts. Next time I'm going to try marzipan (loads of sugar in that and I quite like the stuff).
https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/55031580-ramp-test

I can't work out whether to be pleased that it's going well or frustrated it's not gone up more. I should probably focus on consistency and trying to get 300 ish TSS each week, but life keeps getting in the way.

I was listening to a podcast about the hour, and they were talking about the burning - I don't get a burning sensation in my legs - I just get to the point where I can't push the power any more (I tell them to do it and they just can't). Also for the next few hours my ribs hurt like I've been expanding them too much! Am I doing it wrong or something?

[Frank9755]

Well done, Duncan - you are a bit ahead of me!

Interesting discussion in the few posts above on how applicable the ramp test is to people who have good endurance but lack high end power, eg me!

I've just done another one and was feeling really good, but was disappointed that I hit a wall where I couldn't turn the pedals quite suddenly.  I had been feeling really sharp and quick riding on the road over the last week, so thought I might have made a breakthrough.  Maybe I have, but not at the higher power ranges. 

It feels to me that I am quite a long way from running out of endurance, but that I run out of strength, so have to stop.  Clearly I should do:
- a 20 min FTP test
- more strength training, squats, etc. 

[DuncanM]

There's a couple of interesting threads on the TR forum about using a short block of VO2 workouts to help align your high end power with your endurance ability:
https://forum.trainerroad.com/t/vo2-reduction-whilst-still-acquiring-the-right-intensity-and-training-effect/12512
https://forum.trainerroad.com/t/short-intense-period-before-starting-base-chads-short-ftp-boost-plan/6875

When I finish the current build phase I might give these a go. It would be interesting to see what they can achieve. They might be more effective (for cycling) than weights etc.