Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: andyoxon on 27 August, 2010, 01:34:16 pm
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Sorry if this is a well worn topic, but I'm thinking about moving to SPD. Already have the shoes, but until now I've haven't taken the plunge and ditched the toe straps. Can one expect to 'come off' a few times after first making the change? Any advice?
Andy
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I made the switch without any mishaps. I did have one moment of panic as I was approaching a zebra crossing at some speed when I spotted someone deciding to cross, slammed on my brakes and, having forgotten to unclip before stopping, expected to topple sideways. But in fact all that happened was that my last ditch attempt to unclip was successful.
I do know a chap who, having just switched to spds, cycled up to a T junction and, instead of unclipping while waiting to turn right, decided he would lean nonchalantly on the "keep left" fibreglass illuminated bollard thingy. It was not bolted to the ground.
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Answer to question : Yes.
Release the spring tension on the pedals as much as possible when you first start out with them .. just makes it easier when the "late reflex" kicks in to twist-and-exit your foot.
A few offs ... after that you'll wonder how people that aren't clipless can ride ... I even have SPDs (with a cage platform) on my pub bike for SPD shoe/normal shoe options.
I was hesitant about my fixed with clipless - rode to the end of the road with platforms, rode back and fited SPDs
Rob
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When changing to clipless I rode around on some grass to start with and get used to it, I did fall off once and it does make a softer landing than tarmac.
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Sorry if this is a well worn topic, but I'm thinking about moving to SPD. Already have the shoes, but until now I've haven't taken the plunge and ditched the toe straps. Can one expect to 'come off' a few times after first making the change? Any advice?
It's really not as tricky as many people like to make out.
Clipless moments come from complacency. Just make sure you unclip with a nice exaggerated twist of the foot.
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I had more painful offs with toeclips than I ever had with SPDs
SPDs are much easier than toeclips. People moving to SPD seem to think they are "the same but more difficult" but this isn't my experience
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+1, I approached the change with trepidation but had no issues at all. To start with, clip out early, that's all. You can still pedal, and you may clip back in, but then you realise how easy it is....
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No problems for me. Sure, you might have a few clipless moments but probably not. You have to think about it a bit at first, like remembering which way your gears go, but it's second nature very quickly if you ride a bit.
My worst clipless moment was when stationary, the foot still on the bike was clipped in and I turned around. Bit embarrassing really.
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Most important thing is to crank off the tension on the pedals to the lowest setting. It will still be as secure as toestraps.
You don't want to be setting off and have half-clipped shoes. That leads to accidents (I believe Charlotte can comment on this).
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Get pedals with clips on both sides. Single sided clips are a PITA. I have them and and they always end up wrong side up when you are trying to clip in.
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Not everyone does, but I had a couple of falls.
Stick a card on your handlebar stem with "TWIST" written in big red letters. I'm not joking. It takes a while before it becomes automatic. Do a lot of stopping and starting to drill it into your mind.
Even better is to get someone to cycle behind you on the first couple of rides to shout "Twist!" every time you come to a stop.
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make sure the cleats on your shoes are tight. I nearly had an off yesterday cos I twisted my foot to unclip but the cleat was so loose I didnt. Thankfully the tension was right down and it came out when I panicked ;D
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I've only ever had a couple of clipless moments and neither of these were when I was new to them. Probably was concentrating more at first, then became complacent later.
1st was because I was tailgateing traffic too closely. They stopped - so did I (remarkably) - then I spoilt it, didn't I?
2nd was due to loose bolts in my shoe. Foot swung out - shoe swung out - plate swiveled and stayed locked in place. (This will always lead to a clipless moment of epic proportions)
Edit: Ah, beaten to point 2 by Mike.
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I was a non-cyclist pretty much before May this year, then I bought my new bike, some SPD shoes and the Shimano pedals with an SPD side and a plain side so I would have options. I practiced clipping and unclipping a few dozen times before I rode off. Like is said above, you need to do a bit of pre-thinking and unclip well in advance of junctions to start with.
Initially I was fine, as I was thinking about the clips a lot. However because I was new to clipless I was sometimes trying to avoid having to unclip and reclip, and I nearly went splat a couple of times e.g when I had unclipped one foot to get round one of those stupid gates on sustrans paths, and I really should have unclipped both.
I once nearly went splat when I unclipped one foot when stopping but the bike went the other way (I suppose if you are a half-decent cyclist this would definitely not happen!).
The one and only time I did actually come off the bike was in an 'undecided' moment, where the cycle path narrowed to a point and in the time it took my brain to decide whether to go down the curb or stop, I stopped but didn't unclip. I went splat on a grass verge in front of a crowd outside Cyfarthfa Castle in Merthyr Tydfil. They laughed but not as much as I did ;D After this, realising that if you did this on tarmac it would hurt, I now unclip anytime I think I might need to. With practice its easy to clip and unclip so there is no reason to put it off to the last second.
After 2 months of never using the platform side of the pedals I changed them for the 2 sided SPDs that are smaller and lighter and less sharp if you scrape your leg with them. I will probably never ride a bike without SPDs again :)
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People usually have problems when moving from pedals with no form of restraint to SPDs.
I moved from toe-clips and had no problems (because it was much less effort than reaching down to loosen my straps). If you have very loose toe-clips (why would you do this?) then I suppose you may have a problem initially but it's really no big deal and becomes 2nd-nature. Take the tension out of the SPD springs as much as possible.
I suspect you're first "moment" will be after a few days when you stop concentrating.
It took me 5 years to have a clipless fall. I bought a new bike and the SPD springs were done up really tight (there is no advantage to doing this unless you are a competetive MTB rider imo), I came to a stop, on my driveway and, in the few milliseconds it took for me to realise my foot hadn't twisted out, it was too late, I was on my way down.
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I used toeclips for a couple of decades before switching to Looks.
I had the toeclips set just loose enough that I could get my feet in/out on the move on fixed when wearing proper cycling shoes with smooth soles, and I still find it easier to exit toeclips than clipless.
Clipless are better in many other ways though, and it is well worth making the swap
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One small point, more for when you get used to them.
I'd say that MTB shoes are better than Road shoes for commuting use, especially on new cleats. Difference being, on Road shoes (with hard, stiff soles) you can end up slipping off as you move off without clipping in properly, with painful results.
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I've been using clipless pedals for ten years, but I'm danger of having a "moment" again after getting Keo 2 Max pedals that have higher retension force at minimum than anything I've used before (and what I'm still using on other bikes). Considerably more force is required to unclip. It's quite scary all over again.
I second the recommendation for double-sided SPD pedals to begin with, or for a utility bike. Shimano M520 is great value for money.
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Most of my clipless moments have been on the tandem rather than a solo. Would be easy to blame Mrs D (who, of course, has no difficulty blaming me), but in reality it was just a result of unexpected alterations of balance when another person is involved.
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I bought a new bike and the SPD springs were done up really tight (there is no advantage to doing this unless you are a competetive MTB rider imo)
Climbing serious hills on fixed. Having an unclip moment when pulling up hard hurts a lot.
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<snip>
Can one expect to 'come off' a few times after first making the change?
<snip>
Almost certainly. However the upside to this is that it'll only be once or twice and whenif it happens you'll be nearly stationary and so will provide passing pedestrians and motorists with a few moments of cheer in their otherwise unremittingly grim little lives.
Don't ask me how I know this. :)
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I got SPDs after riding flats without any form of attachment and was absolutely fine, I don't think I've ever hit the deck. A (rather clumsy) friend first fitted SPDs at the start of a LEJOG attempt, and didn't have any falls in the ~700 we rode before quitting. It really isn't as hard as it's made out to be. I find that at least for MTB systems, your natural panic reaction of kicking out will tend to release the pedals anyway.
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and whenif it happens you'll be nearly stationary and so will provide passing pedestrians and motorists with a few moments of cheer in their otherwise unremittingly grim little lives.
Oh yes. Absolutely guaranteed.
When you do go down, as eventually you will, it will always be alongside a bus stop crammed with gloomy people or outside a school with its clumps of jeering yoof.
Always. ::-)
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I got SPDs after riding flats without any form of attachment and was absolutely fine, I don't think I've ever hit the deck. A (rather clumsy) friend first fitted SPDs at the start of a LEJOG attempt, and didn't have any falls in the ~700 we rode before quitting. It really isn't as hard as it's made out to be. I find that at least for MTB systems, your natural panic reaction of kicking out will tend to release the pedals anyway.
That didn't work for me, and I fell in a panic once. Maybe it's harder if prior experience is with toeclips rather than plain flats, because with toeclips you have to pull straight back. That doesn't work with clipless, so then you do have to re-program your brain with a new technique.
I certainly don't want to put anyone off, just want to emphasis that it's worth putting conscious effort into it before it becomes an automatic action.
People usually have problems when moving from pedals with no form of restraint to SPDs.
I moved from toe-clips and had no problems (because it was much less effort than reaching down to loosen my straps). If you have very loose toe-clips (why would you do this?) then I suppose you may have a problem initially but it's really no big deal and becomes 2nd-nature.
I had my straps loose enough all the time to withdraw my feet without reaching down, as most of my riding was in town. There's still more security like that than you get from plain flats, as well as a little bit of benefit on the upstroke.
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I bought a new bike and the SPD springs were done up really tight (there is no advantage to doing this unless you are a competetive MTB rider imo)
Climbing serious hills on fixed. Having an unclip moment when pulling up hard hurts a lot.
I'm fairly sure the spring tension only affects how hard/easy it is to twist out horizontally. It doesn't affect the force required to pull the cleat, vertically, out of the binding. In theory you should be able to pull the cleat out of the sole of your shoe before the binding lets go.
I suppose if you are really honking up a hill you may accidentally twist your foot out of the pedal (although I'm struggling to imagine doing it).
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I bought a new bike and the SPD springs were done up really tight (there is no advantage to doing this unless you are a competetive MTB rider imo)
Climbing serious hills on fixed. Having an unclip moment when pulling up hard hurts a lot.
I'm fairly sure the spring tension only affects how hard/easy it is to twist out horizontally. It doesn't affect the force required to pull the cleat, vertically, out of the binding. In theory you should be able to pull the cleat out of the sole of your shoe before the binding lets go.
Look at how the bindings operate, they open outwards to release the cleat. The twisting motion means much less force is required to open up the bindings; the shape of the cleat means that the bindings are pushed open from the inside when the cleat is twisted, but that doesn't mean you can't pull the cleat out with a bunch of vertical force.
Having the spring tension down low makes it easier to pull out with just a vertical force, hence I have them done up tight since I'm often pulling up *hard* on the pedals.
[EDIT] Here's a good image: http://www.drakescycles.co.uk/smsimg/50/1962-7238-full-pdm980-50.jpg
The back of the cleat is held by the rear unmovable binding, the tip of the cleat will lift up. The less tension in the spring the easier and further the swiveling front binding will move out away from the cleat.
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I'm fairly sure the spring tension only affects how hard/easy it is to twist out horizontally. It doesn't affect the force required to pull the cleat, vertically, out of the binding. In theory you should be able to pull the cleat out of the sole of your shoe before the binding lets go.
I'm not so sure about that. The retension system of most clipless pedals isn't that sophisticated, and I would be surprised if racing cyclists use high tension only to deal with accidental rotation.
I haven't put it to the test myself, though. It would be a bit of an ankle buster.
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I bought a new bike and the SPD springs were done up really tight (there is no advantage to doing this unless you are a competetive MTB rider imo)
Climbing serious hills on fixed. Having an unclip moment when pulling up hard hurts a lot.
I'm fairly sure the spring tension only affects how hard/easy it is to twist out horizontally. It doesn't affect the force required to pull the cleat, vertically, out of the binding. In theory you should be able to pull the cleat out of the sole of your shoe before the binding lets go.
Look at how the bindings operate, they open outwards to release the cleat. The twisting motion means much less force is required to open up the bindings; the shape of the cleat means that the bindings are pushed open from the inside when the cleat is twisted, but that doesn't mean you can't pull the cleat out with a bunch of vertical force.
Having the spring tension down low makes it easier to pull out with just a vertical force, hence I have them done up tight since I'm often pulling up *hard* on the pedals.
I'm not conviced that the springs are big enough to have any effect on pulling vertically out of the pedal. The tension of mine is so low that my cleats slip into the bindings with hardly any pressure.
I can still honk until my shoes are nearly coming off without pulling out of the bindings though. That would be a complete design flaw. The main requirement of a binding is that it NEVER pulls out vertically, that's it's raison d'etre.
There's no point in having a variable amount of vertical release pressure (is there? Why would I want that?)
Pro cyclists couldn't sprint at all if bindings opened like that surely.
Edit. I can believe that Chris Hoy could pull the cleat out of an SPD binding vertically but that would be due to him bending the metal jaws (accounts for the usual practice of using toe-straps as well)
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Pro cyclists generally use higher retension force than utility and recreational cyclists, and the springs are strong in the kind of pedals they use. Why?
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I'm not conviced that the springs are big enough to have any effect on pulling vertically out of the pedal. The tension of mine is so low that my cleats slip into the bindings with hardly any pressure.
That's no surprise, the cleats are shaped so that they clip in much easier by guiding apart the bindings. You'll barely notice any pressure required to clip in.
If the front part of the pedal is hinged (as in the previous image) then at some large amount of force it will pull open the bindings enough for the cleat to pop out. The looser the spring tension the less upward force is required.
I can still honk until my shoes are nearly coming off without pulling out of the bindings though. That would be a complete design flaw. The main requirement of a binding is that it NEVER pulls out vertically, that's it's raison d'etre. There's no point in having a variable amount of vertical release pressure.
Pro cyclists couldn't sprint at all if bindings opened like that surely.
Again, the force required to pull them out vertically is much more than the force required to twist them out. Most of the time you'll never get near the force required to have one pop out vertically.
I've had it happen once, when the spring tension was low and I was really pulling up on the pedal climbing a hill on fixed.
It's not meant to happen, but the design of most SPD pedals means that it can happen. Since tightening the spring tension I've never had another occurrence.
Pro (road) cyclists will be using Look style pedals, or SPD-R, etc which is a quite different design and probably not susceptible to this with the same order of magnitude of forces.
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I think that, if you can pull out vertically, on any clipless pedal, then the mechanism failed (possibly due to twisting foot slightly). I don't think the spring tension has any noticible effect, Pro or not. The spring tension is there purely for engagement and (twisting) disengagement.
Any design that has a variable release tension, in the vertical plane, is dangerous.
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I think that, if you can pull out vertically, on any clipless pedal, then the mechanism failed (possibly due to twisting foot slightly). I don't think the spring tension has any noticible effect, Pro or not. The spring tension is there purely for engagement and (twisting) disengagement.
Any design that has a variable release tension, in the vertical plane, is dangerous.
The design of SPD pedals makes it a possibility (you only have to look at the image of the pedals I posted).
My point is that if you have the pedal spring tension too loose, then the force required to pop it out vertically is within the realms of the average human pulling up hard on the pedal.
If you set the tension higher then the force required to pop it out vertically isn't within the realms of the average human and so it should never a problem.
The more you twist your foot then the less upward force is required, another reason to have them done up tighter than the loosest setting, especially if your pedaling stroke is far from perfect (and I'm not saying mine is).
I was simply responding to your statement of:
I bought a new bike and the SPD springs were done up really tight (there is no advantage to doing this unless you are a competetive MTB rider imo)
with a reason why I would have the SPD spring tensions done up tight for something other than competitive MTB-ing, namely for taking a fixed into hilly terrain (or even pulling away hard from lights gets me to roughly the same levels of power input and low cadence).
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The design of SPD - if you look at the engagement faces on the cleat they will not pop out vertically, it's an arrow head design, once in it does not pull out unless the cleat has worn away to a point where it no longer engages correctly.
New SPD cleats don't pull out, even with less tension.
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The design of SPD - if you look at the engagement faces on the cleat they will not pop out vertically, it's an arrow head design, once in it does not pull out unless the cleat has worn away to a point where it no longer engages correctly.
New SPD cleats don't pull out, even with less tension.
That's certainly my understanding. I can certainly imagine a cleat with worn/rounded edges pulling out of a binding but that would be a mechanical failure.
Having a variable (vertical) release tension would cause no end of injuries.
I just googled Shimano SPD tech spec. "pedal will not release unless foot is twisted outwards"
OK, that answers my question.
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The design of SPD - if you look at the engagement faces on the cleat they will not pop out vertically, it's an arrow head design, once in it does not pull out unless the cleat has worn away to a point where it no longer engages correctly.
New SPD cleats don't pull out, even with less tension.
That's certainly my understanding. I can certainly imagine a cleat with worn/rounded edges pulling out of a binding but that would be a mechanical failure.
Having a variable (vertical) release tension would cause no end of injuries.
I just googled Shimano SPD tech spec. "pedal will not release unless foot is twisted outwards"
OK, that answers my question.
Fine. If you want to believe that the small spring will always hold no matter how much upward force is employed then who am I to try and rock your world.
The point is that one end of the cleat is held by the fixed binding which will act as a pivot so the other end will be pulling upwards at an angle to the normal of the plane of the bindings, which means there will be a component of that force pushing the binding open. It then comes down to whether that force is enough to pop open the binding or not.
I will continue to tighten my pedal release springs because I know that on the loosest setting it's within the realms of possibility to pull out of them applying vertical force, even with brand new cleats.
Having a variable (vertical) release tension would cause no end of injuries.
Again, on the loosest setting the force required to pull out vertically are beyond the average rider, so instances of it will be very uncommon.
The vast majority of people who can pull more than 1000W peak will have their pedals done up tighter than the loosest setting, and so instances with strong riders will be uncommon.
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I think Greenbank is right.
As an experiment, a shoe with an SM-SH51 (the most common) SPD cleat can be pulled out of an M520 pedal vertically, without rotating, if the pedal jaw is partially levered open with a screwdriver. The rear end of the cleat is held by force from the spring pressing on the rear edge, which is variable, and not very great at the lowest setting.
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[EDIT] Here's a good image: http://www.drakescycles.co.uk/smsimg/50/1962-7238-full-pdm980-50.jpg
The back of the cleat is held by the rear unmovable binding, the tip of the cleat will lift up. The less tension in the spring the easier and further the swiveling front binding will move out away from the cleat.
Agreed, except you've got the back and front mixed up (if I'm understanding right). The swivelling binding is at the back.
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[EDIT] Here's a good image: http://www.drakescycles.co.uk/smsimg/50/1962-7238-full-pdm980-50.jpg
The back of the cleat is held by the rear unmovable binding, the tip of the cleat will lift up. The less tension in the spring the easier and further the swiveling front binding will move out away from the cleat.
Agreed, except you've got the back and front mixed up (if I'm understanding right). The swivelling binding is at the back.
Yes, I noticed that when I got to my bike to go home and looked at it. Doesn't matter which way round it is for my argument to stand.
As the swivelling binding is pulled up the distance between it and the front (fixed) binding increases. Also, the distance from the cleat to the pedal increases slightly, which means the cleat is angled slightly (pointing down towards the front binding). As this angle increases the contact patch of any ridge on the front of the cleat is reduced up until the point that there's nothing holding it clipped in (the same happens with the contact with the rear/swivelling binding). As more upward force is applied the swivelling binding is pulled further back and at some point the distance between the bindings increases to the point that the cleat and pop out.
The less tension in the spring the easier it moves back and therefore the less upward force is required to pop it out of the binding.
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Running it that loose is beyond how it is meant to work.
It should not pull out vertically, it's not designed to.
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I've only been using clipless a few weeks. No actual "moments" yet, but a couple of "emergency disengagements" - one when I'd only just fitted them a quarter of an hour before and was riding around trying to get the hang of them. I unclipped, stopped, put my foot down - and found that actually it was still clipped in! I then found that in an emergency, panic push-pull-twisting of the foot releases the clip!
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In the 1980s when I was racing, I used to commute across London with standard clips and straps, done up tightly. I developed a decent technique of staying clipped in and leaning against lamp posts, railings and walls when still strapped in at red lights etc.
Clipless (original white Look pedals) were a Godsend, as I could still grab stuff but could twist my foot out in emergencies.
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I am amazingly clumsy, yet I've had relatively few clipless moments. When I first changed though I had a friend riding with me who kept shouting 'unclip!' every time I came up to a junction. This helped a lot!
Like boab, I've had a clipless moment whilst turning round stationary. I ended up lying in the road unable to stand up as I was still attached by the leg stuck underneath the bike. I had to be helped up by two helpful forummers. Not to be recommended. :-[
Oh, and remember to check the screws in the soles are in place. It is impossible to unclip when two fall out and very, very difficult to pull your foot out of the shoe when wearing overshoes. Lesson learned. :-[ :-[
Go for it!
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The design of SPD - if you look at the engagement faces on the cleat they will not pop out vertically, it's an arrow head design, once in it does not pull out unless the cleat has worn away to a point where it no longer engages correctly.
New SPD cleats don't pull out, even with less tension.
That's certainly my understanding. I can certainly imagine a cleat with worn/rounded edges pulling out of a binding but that would be a mechanical failure.
Having a variable (vertical) release tension would cause no end of injuries.
I just googled Shimano SPD tech spec. "pedal will not release unless foot is twisted outwards"
OK, that answers my question.
Fine. If you want to believe that the small spring will always hold no matter how much upward force is employed then who am I to try and rock your world.
The point is that one end of the cleat is held by the fixed binding which will act as a pivot so the other end will be pulling upwards at an angle to the normal of the plane of the bindings, which means there will be a component of that force pushing the binding open. It then comes down to whether that force is enough to pop open the binding or not.
I will continue to tighten my pedal release springs because I know that on the loosest setting it's within the realms of possibility to pull out of them applying vertical force, even with brand new cleats.
Having a variable (vertical) release tension would cause no end of injuries.
Again, on the loosest setting the force required to pull out vertically are beyond the average rider, so instances of it will be very uncommon.
The vast majority of people who can pull more than 1000W peak will have their pedals done up tighter than the loosest setting, and so instances with strong riders will be uncommon.
I suspect everyone is right and wrong here ;-)
First, there are Shimano "Multi Release" cleats (ie, cleats which pull out vertically) as in here http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/Pedals/PDM505/SI-45C0B_EN_v1_m56577569830617303.pdf
So clearly 1) Cleats can be designed to release upwards in an SPD system and 2) in normal circumstances single release shouldn't. However, the factors in real life mean that the alignment geometry of your foot, cleat and pedal are unlikely to be perfect. Also, wear certainly comes into play with play. The tighter the spring, the less the impact of any misalignement/wear, as you have to have correspondingly more force to clip in and out.
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Yeah my understanding is that Shimano's black cleats will ONLY release if you twist, whereas the silver cleats will release in more than one way. Mine are silver (thankfully), but I probably don't have the power to yank them out in a vertical direction while pedalling anyway. I have found that a 'panic movement' does release them even if its more of a sideways movement than a twist, and that is the only reason I havent been lying around on the ground with a bike attached to me more often ;D
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So the difference is in the cleats themselves, the part attached to the sole of your shoe, rather than the "trap/hinge/connector thing" attached to the pedal? I would have assumed the opposite!
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Yes, the difference is in the cleats. However, the black cleats will also realease vertically if you are able to overcome the spring. That's why it's important to have the pedals tensioned enough for your needs and strength. The lowest, or near-lowest, setting on SPD pedals is OK for most cyclists, but some should increase it more.
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If you fall off the bike, your clipless pedals will normally unclip automatically.
Why? I have no idea but I've tried it when my front wheel slipped into a muddy gutter :o :o :o
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Yes, the difference is in the cleats. However, the black cleats will also realease vertically if you are able to overcome the spring. That's why it's important to have the pedals tensioned enough for your needs and strength. The lowest, or near-lowest, setting on SPD pedals is OK for most cyclists, but some should increase it more.
This is what i've been trying to say.
I know they're not designed to come out like that, but they can in extreme circumstances.
Some here are saying that it's impossible for them to ever come out vertically.
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If you fall off the bike, your clipless pedals will normally unclip automatically.
Why?
Because you or the bike will rotate during the fall. Your feet are extremely unlikely to stay in line with the pedals for the whole incident. Some cyclists remain clipped in, though, if the pedal tension is set high.
Personally, my only concern is that I might not be released soon enough and so may fall more awkwardly than I would otherwise. My falls have in fact been more injurious since using clipless pedals - which would put me off if it wasn't for the great comfort, efficiency and security when pedalling.
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Some here are saying that it's impossible for them to ever come out vertically
I use black (single only release) cleats and if the pedal spring tension is quite low, I can yank my feet out on a pure vertical stroke, but this is also dependant on how worn the cleats are.
FWIW, on another forum, I'm running a poll about SPDs, as a guideline for anyone who is undecided about using them.
Of the current 28 answers, 25 say that once they'd tried them, they'd never consider reverting to normal pedals again; of the other 3, one is a downhill MTB rider, where trailing his foot against the floor is part of the accepted technique.
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Some here are saying that it's impossible for them to ever come out vertically
I use black (single only release) cleats and if the pedal spring tension is quite low, I can yank my feet out on a pure vertical stroke, but this is also dependant on how worn the cleats are.
FWIW, on another forum, I'm running a poll about SPDs, as a guideline for anyone who is undecided about using them.
Of the current 28 answers, 25 say that once they'd tried them, they'd never consider reverting to normal pedals again; of the other 3, one is a downhill MTB rider, where trailing his foot against the floor is part of the accepted technique.
I can't imagine riding without them now, but my dad, who rides almost exclusively mtb proper off road, has reverted to flats. No1Son rides spd but one of the mtbs is kept with flat pedals as apparently, it improves your technique. He says.
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I was doing a bit of bumpy off-roading yesterday (on a road bike with 23mm tyres* ::-)) - and yes I was really nervous with my feet clipped in and so could barely ride properly :facepalm:
* As the road turned into a path then into a field!; I couldn't face going back to go a long way out of my way.
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Apart from colour, what's the difference between the single- and multiple-release SPD cleats? Is there any visible difference in shape? 'Cause I'm wondering which mine are... Actually they're made by VP, and the blurb says they release by twisting your heel either in or out (which is true, I've tried it) but does not mention anything about lifting your heel or pulling it up. They are a dark silver colour, not that that means anything.
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There is a difference in shape, but that might be hard to describe. Shimano cleats are marked with a number. Can you see a number on yours?
The ones that are initially black may appear silver after the coating has worn off.
ps. I don't know about VPs! :'(
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I use Time ATAC pedals. The couple of times I've come off the bike (and thankfully its not a frequent occurance) my feet have unclipped automatically 'as if by magic'.
Anecdote is not data. YMMV.
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They are marked VP-C01. They are pointed at the end, then a vertical bit, then another slope then another vertical bit, then the big elongated oval bit.
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Like a New York skyscraper!
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I fear the difference between single and multi-release cleats is too slight to reveal with ASCII art.
I wouldn't worry about it anyway if they behave to your liking. Give them a good old yank to test, minding not to bust your ankles!
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I'm still in the "getting used to them" stage, really. So far, so good. :)
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Pedals used - several cage style metal and plastic, BMX style platforms with pins, Shimano double sided SPD, Wellgo platform/SPD
Retention used - none, plastic toe clip no straps, plastic cages with straps, metal cages with straps, SPD with MTB style shoes, 3 x velcro systems, Powergrips.
Shoes used - Northwave ATMTB, any old shoe/trainer/boot and Five-Ten Impact Low with stealth grippy soles
Preference - BMX style platforms with pins, no foot retention and any shoe with reasonably stiff base and stealth rubber grip
Bashed shins - zero
Foot slippage - only when missing clipping in
Falls - only when unable to release from SPDs
Are there benefits to being attached to pedals? - yes, do they outweigh the negatives? - not for me
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Just out of interest, do you notice or have you noticed any difference between using plastic and metal toe clips? I've only ever used plastic ones - I don't think I've even noticed metal ones for sale! - but wonder if metal ones might be stiffer?
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Just out of interest, do you notice or have you noticed any difference between using plastic and metal toe clips? I've only ever used plastic ones - I don't think I've even noticed metal ones for sale! - but wonder if metal ones might be stiffer?
Metal clips are stiffer, but don't always fit your shoes so comfortably. Stiffness from the clips isn't all that important when using tightened straps.
Christophe is the classic make for metal clips. They come in various sizes. St John Street Cycles stock some others as well.
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The metal ones I tried were on an old bike I picked up from the tip, design seemed good but a bit small for my feet, though I do cycle in clumpy boots sometimes. They were ok but a bit easy to bend, the plastic ones spring back but I knocked these out of shape a couple of times.
Probably due to age, cheapness, and not being the right size, so not really a fair assessment of this sort of system.
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There is a difference in shape, but that might be hard to describe. Shimano cleats are marked with a number. Can you see a number on yours?
IIRC, Shimano SH-51 is the single release and SH-56 is the multiple release. Number should be stamped on the bottom.
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OK I got my my (unused) black cleats (Shimano SM-SH51) and compared them to the silver (SM-SH56) fitted to my shoes. From below theY look identical in profile, and the back edge looks identical. Where they differ is the appearance of the front edge side on. These pics show it:
From below (look the same):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/feistyfeline/cleats006.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/feistyfeline/cleats007.jpg)
From behind (look the same):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/feistyfeline/cleats011.jpg)
From infront:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/feistyfeline/cleats008.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/feistyfeline/cleats010.jpg)
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My "SPD-compatible" cleats are definitely not the same shape as either of those in Feline's photos, so I wonder if they will actually work with Shimano pedals? Not that it really matters, though, they work fine with the pedals they came with. :)
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Lara, your photo of the front tells the tale.
The multi-release silver one has a chamfered piece to allow multi-angle release whereas the black one has this cut away.
Also, I've just noticed that the SH-56 has a capital 'M' stamped into the rear part, presumable indication Multi-release.
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Which shimano cleats are good for using with Lidl cycling shoes (seem to have four thread holes) and Shimano M520 pedals?
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Shimano SM-SH51 (that come with M520 pedals) should be ok with any SPD-compatible shoes.
The shoes with two rows of two holes for SPD - you choose the row you like, to place the cleat nearer to, or further from, the toes. In line with the ball of the foot is the traditional cleat position.
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Any SPD cleat will work(not SPD-SL), you only use two of the four holes. They give fore and aft adjustability.
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I have to say that when I first started with SPDs I used to have them on the lowest spring tension. Since riding fixed I now have them on the highest.
My experience has been that as I climb on fixed I sometimes twist my feet a bit as I'm squirming to get extra leverage and this has caused me to come unclipped at low spring tensions.
Now I have all my pedals on maximum tension partly because I'm used to it and partly that it just feels more secure. It DOES mean that the amount of twisting force required to remove my foot is greater but I'm used to that now.l
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There is a difference in shape, but that might be hard to describe. Shimano cleats are marked with a number. Can you see a number on yours?
IIRC, Shimano SH-51 is the single release and SH-56 is the multiple release. Number should be stamped on the bottom.
Ah, but then there is the SH-52 and SH-55 as well. The former seems to look the same as the SH-51, but must be labled differently for those who use XTR pedals and require an exclusive cleat to match. The SH-55 I think, is the original multi-release cleat. It's what I got with some M324 pedals.
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Which shimano cleats are good for using with Lidl cycling shoes (seem to have four thread holes) and Shimano M520 pedals?
I use Lidl shoes (bike footwear bargain alert!!) with SH-51. Just choose whichever of the two pairs of holes suit the two cleat holes. One pair for cleat far back, the other for cleat far forward.
Having been weaned on Cinelli M71 and Shimano 7400 pedals, I never have a problem and would probably find SH-56 a bit too 'girly'!
(Chest-beating and macho growling may follow!) ;) ;D
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It's what I got with some M324 pedals.
I bought M324 pedals for one bike and regretted it; the serrated edges can tear chunks out of your shins. Put A530s on the next bike and like them much better. SH51 cleats are compatible with both, usefully.
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Better still, for ease of use go for double sided M520 pedals.
I used to use A520 (and a Wellgo equivalent) but after moving to double-sided I'd never go back (except for Look style pedals but then I'd only use them when unclipping was a rarity not a common occurrence).
No matter how little time you think you spend flicking the single-sided pedal over to get clipped in it's just so much easier with double-sided as you just stomp and go.
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Having tried the single sided I agree the 2 sided are much more convenient. They are also lighter and dont scrape ur legs with teeth ;D
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"I don't have time to flip and clip,
I just want to stomp and go."
;D
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It's what I got with some M324 pedals.
I bought M324 pedals for one bike and regretted it; the serrated edges can tear chunks out of your shins. Put A530s on the next bike and like them much better. SH51 cleats are compatible with both, usefully.
I think if I still had M324's, I'd probably dispense with the steel cage and drill the platform for a few grub screws to give some grip. Those cages weigh a fair bit IIRC.
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Better still, for ease of use go for double sided M520 pedals.
If you ever use the bike without cleated shoes, that's no longer easy. Won't bother arguing the toss about ease of use of single sided with cleats, as we wasted enough time at that in another thread
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M424 then. Double-sided plus the ability to use normal shoes on either side.
I have them on my hack/snow bike for this very reason.
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Just had a quick google of the Shimano M424. They look eminently practical (for me). Thanks for bringing them to my attention! Theoretically available in Decathlon, where I may be headed tomorrow anyway, for less than the Wiggle price. Unfortunately my nearest Decathlon doesn't have any in stock. Maybe they can order them - or maybe LBS can?
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A few of my GO50 off-road lot use M424s, as they occasionally chicken out of gnarly descents by unclipping at the top. When my 520s wear out, I may try some.
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That is an additional advantage! What appeals to me is that they can, it seems, be used 'flat' when you don't want to wear specific cycling shoes - say popping to the shops or when I'm picking up my son from school.
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I would expect the float not to be so good when there's extra material around the mechanism to scrape on your shoes. I find MO21 shoes fine walking a few miles up and down the supermarket aisles.
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I don't think SPD shoes would be popular on the school's wooden floors. Clomp, clomp, bash, dent!
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What shoes do you have? SPD cleats can be recessed enough to not contact an even floor.
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They are the ones that fitted me when I was in the shop! By a firm called Accent. The cleats are pretty much flush with the sole, I've never had the opportunity to walk over a wooden floor in them (yet! - the bike I use for picking my son up has toe clips, so I wear whatever seems good at the time - it's only a mile away) but they do clomp impressively on concrete stairs. :)
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I must admit the cleats are almost flush with the soles on mine too (maybe after the soles have worn down?), but I don't tink that's the case with all SPD shoes.
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I must admit the cleats are almost flush with the soles on mine too (maybe after the soles have worn down?), but I don't that's the case with all SPD shoes.
Mmm, well I've just bought what looks like a lovely pair of Diadora Trailrider's to replace my regular Spesh Taho shoes. Everything looks lovely about them (fit [one size up] and quality) and the soles look like they should last. EXCEPT, even with old worn cleats they still 'claperty clunk' on the pave. They are sp nearly what I need, that I'm thinking how I can reduce the cleat height. On the bright side, I think that if the cleat is clunking so much, it wil be saving wear on the sole somewhat, being steel, rather than rubber!
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I must admit the cleats are almost flush with the soles on mine too (maybe after the soles have worn down?), but I don't that's the case with all SPD shoes.
I wear the MTB version of the Specialized Sport. It's not as rigid as the road version but the cleats are protected by the tread around the rim of the shoe. Makes a good compromise for commuting.
There's a whole subspecies of RLJers who wear full-on roadie shoes with big, exposed cleats which they never want to touch tarmac. They RLJ when their trackstand fails or when there's no space to trackstand.
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The SPD cleats on my Spesh Sport MTB shoes definitely touch the ground, despite the plastic tread, I've cracked the odd tile or two in the local Sainsbury's with them. I have to make sure I take them off before going into the bathroom or toilet at home as they have tiled floors that would scratch (and show scratches) very easily. It'll all depend on the individual shoe and the position of the cleats.
The wooden floor of the school hall at Washingborough on LEL was a good example. Despite them telling me that SPDs were ok as they wouldn't scratch the floor I took mine off anyway.