So, titanium or carbon?

[Polar Bear]

On my first tour, first night stop with my brand new Roberts Roughstuff the top tube got a paint ding causing a loss of paint about 0.5cm².   Over the years paint has chipped like a lepper's scabs.   I've even had it resprayed and it's only 5 years old.   

I bought the Airborne CD frame secondhand at about the time I bought the Roberts.   The CD frame is probably ten years old.   I use it much much more.   It is in fact my main bike.   The only blemishes are the peeling of stickers.  Big deal.

Eventually I'll replace the Roberts frame with a custom TI frame made to the same dimensions and stop worrying about scrapes.

[Frenchie]

My audax bikes are Ti; if I were into racing or wanted a really fast summer geared bike, I'd buy carbon.

I've come to the same conclusion re a racing vs. distance/comfort bike. I would currently buy a Carbon bike for a play bike; for distance I have the Mercian steelie already. Plus you can get a lot of a bike these days when you buy a carbon racer; look at the the P-X and many others.

[vorsprung]

I like my Ti bike a lot

However, I'd say for comfort the most important factor is bike fit and frame design.  Not frame material.

My Aluminium Orbea is fine for doing long distances on.  It's not quite as good as the Ti bike, but the Ti bike is custom made and specifically designed for long distance.

The Ti bike has a gentle head tube angle, curved seat stays and enough clearance to run 28mm tyres

[Hot Flatus]

I have/had 2 XACD ti frames, one Pinarello Ti frame, one trek 5500 carbon frame and one Look 585 Ultra (stiff)carbon frame (as well a carbon mtb, steel audax, alu cross)

The carbon frames, all of them, are without question faster than all the others (and the trek and the Pinarello have been built up with the same bits) so if you want speed, acceleration and climbing ability it has to be carbon. 

Of the 2 carbon road frames the Trek makes a lovely audax bike. Did the brevet cymru on it a few weeks ago, will ride the BCM diy on it. Its the most comfortable of my bikes by far. It is a 'soft' carbon frame.

The Look 585 ultra is the lightest and stiffest frame I've ridden.  I find it to be an excellent climbing frame as there is no discernable flex when out of the saddle, but.... I wouldn't want to be on it for anything longer than 200k... it will beat you up.

I've recently swapped the forks on the trek from the original ones to Columbus carve.  Much much sharper handling, but also much more road buzz transmitted.

Thus... as has been said above, beware of generalisations, try before you buy.

(oh..and don't bother with steel)

[Greenbank]

Yup. Carbon for shortish rides (up to 200km). Would consider the Dun Run on it, or a summer 200, but nothing longer. I use it for thrashing around Richmond Park and the Surrey Hills, and local fast summer rides.

The Plan is to upgrade both the long distance bikes (both steel; one 631 and one SAT 14.5) to Titanium in the next few years.

[frankly frankie]

...Ti is undoubtedly the best frame material for durability...

Ahem
How long do  you want your frame to last?

Most keen cyclists buy a new road bike/frame every 4 years or so.  Most would want a 'best' and '2nd' bike - so a frame needs to last 8 years or so, after that its just cluttering the place up. 

[Really Ancien]

I was out yesterday on my summer bike, a ten year old all 7005 Alloy 60x60 cm frame with alloy power forks and straight stays, it's never going to have a silky ride, but it does accelerate, due to its rigidity, and at that size it's comfortable enough. It also has rarity value, as such a configuration is never mentioned today, and it is a nicely made example with the welds smoothed out.
But how come no-one has mentioned that an alloy frame with carbon forks and stays will offer a good compromise between performance and value. The lack of bling-appeal might also force the rider to impress with their legs, rather than their cheque book.

Damon.

[simonp]

I think I would gladly do the BCM on my Madone but a few changes would be needed:

1.  Brooks saddle.

2.  Thicker bar tape.

3.  Smaller saddle bag, relying more heavily on the bag drop facility.

4.  Hub dynamo, of course.

It doesn't have mudguards and race blades are a total PITA (well, the fronts are anyway), so I'd have to think about the weather forecast too.

I've done 3 100+ mile rides on that bike: two goes at the Fred Whitton, and one Auk 200.  It's absolutely fine for those rides.  It transmits a little more vibration to my hands than my Yukon, but otherwise is a very comfortable bike to ride.  The Yukon feels a lot more solid when hitting bumps in the road, however, and I would not be comfortable with habitually riding the Madone on very laney, potholed routes, which are common in Auk events.

[Adam]

Steel will do anything you want so more expensive alternatives are really a heart rather than head choice.

Yes, but I just know that my little scrapes & scratches would turn to rusty scrapes & scratches on a steel frame.  I don't like brown!

[gonzo]

FWIW, I got an Enigma  ti frame built up into a race machine. It's a long way removed from the traditional ti bike - it's stiff as anything and apart from the natural damping of high frequencies, it doesn't have give in it. My previous ti bike was like riding an armchair.

Whole discussion about the top end differences here:
High end titanium compared to carbon? :: Weight Weenies

[Frenchie]

But how come no-one has mentioned that an alloy frame with carbon forks and stays will offer a good compromise between performance and value. The lack of bling-appeal might also force the rider to impress with their legs, rather than their cheque book.

I kind of thought of that too; I am a big fan of Cannondale bikes for example and my old Bianchi bike was quite a good racer too.

[Adam]

Whole discussion about the top end differences here:
High end titanium compared to carbon? :: Weight Weenies

Thanks - some good comments there 

As mentioned above, it's my fear of doing something simple but daft with a carbon bike and causing it to break, that's steering me towards Ti.

[oncemore]

"My experience shows there really is not a lot of difference in ride quality in any of the frame materials it is down to frame design."

Says all there is to say on the subject I reckon. It ain't WHAT it's made of, it's HOW.

[Hot Flatus]

Hmmmm.  All materials are not equal and weight is an aspect of ride quality. Could you get a steel frame down to 750g and have it as stiff as a carbon frame? Doubt it, but if you could the cost would be astronomical.  Same goes for Ti too. I can't see many convincing arguments for steel, other than mendability.  Weight for weight it matches Ti in price, but rusts.

[Really Ancien]

Titanium and Carbon might both fall in price in the next year or so. Aerospace is in a recession, and that's where the demand has been for both materials and technology. Titanium stands the most chance of recovering in price as Nuclear construction takes off from 2012. It's used a lot for its corrosion resistance. So lots of both types of bike available in the next couple of years.

Damon.

[border-rider]

I can't see many convincing arguments for steel, other than mendability. 

it's easier to get custom designs.  Yes it can be done with Ti, but most Ti frames are off-the-shelf.  OTOH I suppose that most steel frames are also.  There are just more small specialist steel framebuilders if that's what floats your boat.

I'm Mr Average in height, reach etc so an off-the-peg frame suits me just as well as custom.  Custom's nice if you want slightly esoteric, but it's not necessary (for me).

[Adam]

This has all been very informative, and I appreciate everyone's comments. 

In my bid to kickstart the economy, and seeing as it's my birthday next week, I've now ordered a nice shiny Planet X Ti bike. 

[Jurek]

mmmmMMMMmmmm! 

[Paul Smith SRCC]

I have 5 titanium bikes (and have broken two others) and 2 carbon bikes. Both the carbon bikes are top end race frames and the titanium frames vary from touring to race.

The simple answer is if you race then you need carbon - the difference in handling at the extremes is significant - titanium is simply too flexible (maybe unless you pay a small fortune for 6/4 butted). ...

6/4 butted tubing was made by Reynolds and at least for the time being they have stopped production, if I recall correctly Jurek bought one of the last that Van Nicholas had available.

Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk

[clarion]

Most keen cyclists buy a new road bike/frame every 4 years or so.  Most would want a 'best' and '2nd' bike - so a frame needs to last 8 years or so, after that its just cluttering the place up. 

Guess I'm just not a 'keen' cyclist, then

[Paul Smith SRCC]

Most keen cyclists buy a new road bike/frame every 4 years or so.  Most would want a 'best' and '2nd' bike - so a frame needs to last 8 years or so, after that its just cluttering the place up.  

Guess I'm just not a 'keen' cyclist, then

I chose Titanium as I rarely change my bikes, my Van Nicholas Chinook replaced a thirty year old Gios and my Yukon frame replaced a twenty year old Dave Yates built Pearson!

Although personally I believe Carbon is more rubust than many fear it to be, that is not quite the same as saying that I believe them to be as robust as Titanium, I chose the latter in part for that reason, if I do keep them as long as the bikes they replaced that takes me into my mid seventies  

Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk

[Adam]

According to Planet X bikes, N+1 should be delivered on Monday. 

[Adam]

N+1 has arrived early!!!  Now sat next to my desk. 

Sadly, I've realised I don't have the right size allen key to rotate the bars, so I can't go for a ride on it.

[border-rider]

You have no sense of adventure, then ?

[Greenbank]

Sadly, I've realised I don't have the right size allen key to rotate the bars, so I can't go for a ride on it.

Can't you find a route that only has left turns? (Or right if the bars are turned that way...)