Author Topic: Aluminium frame for audaxing  (Read 18639 times)

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #25 on: 16 November, 2015, 08:40:06 am »
I bought Mrs. JB a Cannondale Synapse aluminium bike with discs and 105 and she loves it. I have not ridden it very far as it is just a little too small for me, but it felt really good around Richmond park.

Aluminium has come a very long way with some of the crazy hydro formed profiles.

Anyway - good value at a grand, room for fat tyres and proper mudguards.

I think I would be more than happy to ride it on longer days (obviously not hers, but one that fitted me properly!).
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #26 on: 16 November, 2015, 08:51:47 am »
Nothing like preconceptions to ease a bicycle choice - all steel is good, all aluminium is stiff as a board, all carbon is too fragile, all titanium will crack within a year. There, that's your choice sorted.


Alternatively, one could actually read what other people have to say about specific frames that might fit the brief. There are a several of bike tests available in the Interwebs. Some of them even tell the truth.

Quite right. I just would avoid buying an audax frame with weight as a prime concern. On a long audax comfort wins over weight (within reason).

Chris N

Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #27 on: 16 November, 2015, 08:53:21 am »
+1 for the Synapse (I have the aluminium disc model).  I was very surprised to find it more comfortable on 28mm tyres than a steel framed bike on 35mm tyres.  Doesn't seem to be available as a frame only, but these seem to be good prices for the Claris/Sora versions and you'll be able to shift a lot of the finishing kit if you wanted to transfer your stuff over.

Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #28 on: 16 November, 2015, 09:19:24 am »
My choice of going for alu frame was based on two factors/assumptions:
  • I can get a reasonably light frame without spending a king's ransom
  • Of the materials that bikes are made from (carbon, steel, aluminium and titanium), a decent aluminium frame can be had for a reasonable cost and represents the best value for money.

I'm probably somewhat chastened by my experience of getting a cheaper carbon frame and finding it wanting.  I'm not a man of great means so value for money is always a factor.  I would buy a carbon frame again, just not a cheap one.  My expectation is that I will be able to get a well-performing aluminium frame that will be 'better' (as measured against my criteria) than a similarly priced carbon/steel frame.
Up the hills and round the bends

Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #29 on: 16 November, 2015, 09:25:07 am »
My 853 steel bike was the stiffest, most uncomfortable and downright bizarre handling bike I've ever owned.  Whereas my Merckx Corsa Extra (Columbus SLX steel) is one of the most pleasant to ride bikes I've ridden.  Comfortable, as stiff as it needs to be, fast and predictable.  Seems that Eddy Merckx knows a thing or two about designing / approving a bike!

My Cannondale CAADX is also very comfy, on 28mm tyres, but lacks some of the stiffness of even the Merckx.  I think that's probably due to the long chain stays.  My Canyon Endurace carbon bike is just wonderful.  Light, stiff, comfy, fast, all the cliches.  The handling is sublime, on a par with the Merckx but it weighs 2.5kg less!  Who would have thought that a company that supplies two world tour teams knows how to design bikes?

So, that's a long way of saying: concentrating on a material is daft.  The only given is that steel will be heavier than aluminium which (in the main) will be heavier than carbon fibre.  All other aspects, such as comfort, lateral stiffness, etc., will be down to the design of the frame, from the geometry to the tube profiles.  And the wheels, and especially the tyres, you run can make a big difference.  I rotate tyres between bikes quite often, but even then I don't think I've isolated the effect of the tyres.

The only way to tell is test ride.

GrahamG

  • Babies bugger bicycling
Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #30 on: 16 November, 2015, 09:26:07 am »
Given the want to do a component swap to keep costs down, if the geometry works it just has to be Kinesis - everyone I know that has one raves about it and have never heard complaints re. comfort.
Brummie in exile (may it forever be so)

Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #31 on: 16 November, 2015, 09:29:15 am »
The rrp of a T2 is only £65 less than a Spa Audax. I appreciate you may find it cheaper if you look around. The T2 does look nice and may be right, but I would compare with the Spa before deciding between the two. As I said, the Spa will only be about 300g heavier. I would not make weight the deciding factor.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #32 on: 16 November, 2015, 10:26:43 am »
TBH, if the T2 is in the running, I'd buy the frame and forks and do my own build (as I've done before). Kinesis's build is OK, but has to perhaps make too many compromises to be made available at a good price (and Fatbirds will do it at a better price than Kinesis!). It's a good frame, and deserves better finishing kit than Kinesis give it, if the funds are available. If not, however, it's a good starting point that can be upgraded as funds allow. The Spa is also a good frame, but (for me) there's something about the classic steel aesthetic that just doesn't turn me on. But, naturally, YMMV.

An uncomfortable aluminium bike, yesterday...



(The Tk3 is now the 4S, with no changes other than paintwork)

Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #33 on: 16 November, 2015, 11:11:36 am »
TBH, if the T2 is in the running, I'd buy the frame and forks and do my own build (as I've done before). Kinesis's build is OK, but has to perhaps make too many compromises to be made available at a good price (and Fatbirds will do it at a better price than Kinesis!). It's a good frame, and deserves better finishing kit than Kinesis give it, if the funds are available. If not, however, it's a good starting point that can be upgraded as funds allow. The Spa is also a good frame, but (for me) there's something about the classic steel aesthetic that just doesn't turn me on. But, naturally, YMMV.

An uncomfortable aluminium bike, yesterday...



(The Tk3 is now the 4S, with no changes other than paintwork)

So what's it like for comfort? Do you have experience of a steel frame to compare it to. It certainly looks neat.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #34 on: 16 November, 2015, 12:19:13 pm »
Well, it's pretty much guaranteed that I'd say it's great! We all promote what we have if only to validate our own choice, but this compares very well with all my other road bikes (about 7, atm) - which don't currently include a steel frame but do include titanium (Ritchey) and carbon (Boardman and PX). Within the household stable I do have a couple of On-One Inbred 456 steel MTBs, but they don't count. The last steel bike I owned was a British Eagle which I loved dearly, but which compared very badly on all counts with the Cannondale CAAD8 R1000 which replaced it (in 2005) after it finally succumbed to terminal rot. I've ridden a couple of steelies since then - a Condor something-or-other which was very pleasant, and a Genesis Volare 953 which was turbo-nutter stiff, very exciting to ride, bloody expensive, and would have destroyed my rear end within 100km!

Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #35 on: 16 November, 2015, 01:25:31 pm »
Ah, British Eagle, I still have one of them with a 62cm 531ST frame, dated c. 1987 judging by the old components, nearly all replaced.  The ergonomics are perfect for me.  On my last trip on it to the Wolds a few weeks ago I got overtaken on the way back near Sand Hutton by a guy on a Cannondale soot bike.  He wasn't racing ahead though. 

I've often though I'd get a carbon fibre bike when I am old enough to appreciate it.
Move Faster and Bake Things

menthel

  • Jim is my real, actual name
Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #36 on: 16 November, 2015, 01:29:33 pm »
I used to have a Condor Italia (until it got killed) and it was very comfortable, light and took mudguards and a rack! Bloody awesome it was but I have replaced it with a Fratello Disc as you can't get an Italia with disc brakes.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #37 on: 16 November, 2015, 01:56:57 pm »
the best steel bike i rode so far was condor super aciao(sp?), but it had fancy wheels and latest dura ace so probably felt nice because of them. quality alloy frames can ride nice, they are also pretty light which is always a bonus. if we compare the frames of similar quality made from different materials, alloy would be the best value. my cheapo boardman alloy hybrid is perfectly comfy for audax, the key is to get the position right.

Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #38 on: 16 November, 2015, 02:01:57 pm »
the key is to get the position right.

Agreed.

@jhob if you would like to try a ribble audax, you can borrow mine for a day's riding if you like but it's only a 52cm but the h/bars are high (many spacers) and the seat tube is very long. pm me if interested, I think you live reasonably near me.

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #39 on: 16 November, 2015, 02:48:44 pm »
You could try a Ridley Aeron, some reviews http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12595008. I've got one built up with 10 speed Veloce, very planted. If I put a weekend's kit on the bag - a full Lowsaddle Longflap it will flex a bit when honking up hill. I'm currently using it to commute but have used it for several French sportifs and its sufficenlly light for climbing and surefooted on the descents.

I have a Ridley Aeron also


Mine has 9 speed microshift shifters + shimano cx front derrailuer + XT rear + 13-34 MTB cassette + 48/38 rings + square taper BB + SKS mudguards + carbon seat post + old B17 saddle + rack + shimano N72 generator.  The build up was mostly with old stuff from the previous bike frame.

I find it comfortable to ride with a nice long head tube

Bought the frame from Slane Cycles for £239.99 (including fork) http://www.slanecycles.com/extended_search_result.html?keyword=aeron  They were quick, painless and helpful to deal with

Only problem with it that stops me saying that it is "great" is the tyre clearance.  It will do 25mm with guards but not 28mm

Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #40 on: 16 November, 2015, 07:49:59 pm »
Having given this some more thought, and having discovered the existence of the Kinesis 4S Disc I have decided that I am going to save the pennies and buy this frame a few months.  Ultimately I would like a disc bike and this would represent an easy upgrade path to a disc bike with my general policy of incremental upgrades and changes.

The kinesis frames definitely sound like they would build exactly the sort of bike that I would want.

Thanks everyone for your input.
Up the hills and round the bends

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #41 on: 16 November, 2015, 09:01:19 pm »
Pinnacle Dolomite 2 for cheap and cheerfullnes?

Mine, (bought october last year, late 2014 model in go faster black) can take 28mm tyres + guards as long as they are carefully fitted.  Cheap and cheerful, and I've only done one audax on it last year.  Looking forward to using it more next year!

Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #42 on: 17 November, 2015, 12:06:22 am »
Having given this some more thought, and having discovered the existence of the Kinesis 4S Disc I have decided that I am going to save the pennies and buy this frame a few months.

Haven't tried the Kinesis 4SD, but I have owned its predecessor, Kinesis Tk, for several years, and I love it; stiff bottom bracket area, but very comfortable too. Fun to ride with excellent steering. 
--
Regards

Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #43 on: 17 November, 2015, 11:03:23 am »
+1 for the Synapse (I have the aluminium disc model).  I was very surprised to find it more comfortable on 28mm tyres than a steel framed bike on 35mm tyres.  Doesn't seem to be available as a frame only, but these seem to be good prices for the Claris/Sora versions and you'll be able to shift a lot of the finishing kit if you wanted to transfer your stuff over.

Only thing that puts me off the synapse is the BB30.  I don't like the idea of a bottom bracket that I can't easily service/replace myself and the creaking that they all inevitably seem to end up doing would drive me mad.

Good idea on getting a frame with low-spec finishing kit and selling that on.
Up the hills and round the bends

Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #44 on: 17 November, 2015, 11:05:15 am »
The rrp of a T2 is only £65 less than a Spa Audax. I appreciate you may find it cheaper if you look around. The T2 does look nice and may be right, but I would compare with the Spa before deciding between the two. As I said, the Spa will only be about 300g heavier. I would not make weight the deciding factor.

I have considered, and almost bought, the spa audax frame before.  I just keep getting the nagging feeling that it's not the right frame for me.  That said, if I found a second-hand bargain I might still be tempted....
Up the hills and round the bends

Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #45 on: 17 November, 2015, 11:40:52 am »
Have you considered titanium?

Enigma have a sale on at the moment with some very nice frames & bikes going cheap.

Having ridden all types of frames (steel, carbon, Alu, titanium)  for me it is Titanium all the way from now.  I just love the ride, and I am sure anyone else will agree with me.  Its just a shame I didnt discover Titanium earlier as I could have saved myself a shed load of money!

I even had a new Roberts frameset built to the same geometry as my Van Nicholas, but the VN still felt that much better.

I would suggest that you have a 'test ride' on a titanium bike before spending out on something that just might not be what you thought it was!

Chris N

Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #46 on: 17 November, 2015, 11:54:26 am »
+1 for the Synapse (I have the aluminium disc model).  I was very surprised to find it more comfortable on 28mm tyres than a steel framed bike on 35mm tyres.  Doesn't seem to be available as a frame only, but these seem to be good prices for the Claris/Sora versions and you'll be able to shift a lot of the finishing kit if you wanted to transfer your stuff over.

Only thing that puts me off the synapse is the BB30.  I don't like the idea of a bottom bracket that I can't easily service/replace myself and the creaking that they all inevitably seem to end up doing would drive me mad.

Good idea on getting a frame with low-spec finishing kit and selling that on.

No issues with the BB30 on mine, once I'd made sure the crank bolt was properly tight.  Bearing removal/fitting is fairly straightforward with the right tools (a special drift and headset press with adaptor).  You can always get adaptors to other BB standards (24mm/threaded) if yours does creak.

Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #47 on: 23 November, 2015, 09:52:43 am »
Have you considered titanium?

Enigma have a sale on at the moment with some very nice frames & bikes going cheap.

I will take a look at what enigma have on offer once I have the cash together.... Ti would be nice - if I can afford it!
Up the hills and round the bends

Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #48 on: 23 November, 2015, 09:58:34 am »
Having done a bit more research, and in particular comparing frame geometries it seems that the 4s has much more aggressive geometry than other machines built for a similar purpose such as the Mason Definition and Bowman Pilgrims which have much more relaxed head tube angles in particular.

My concern is that the 4s might be a bit twitchy, particular on 200+ audaxes when the body is more subject to fatigue. 

Could anyone who has covered such distances on a 4s (or predecessors) fares over the longer distances with regard to comfort and handling?
Up the hills and round the bends

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Aluminium frame for audaxing
« Reply #49 on: 23 November, 2015, 01:09:19 pm »
The longest I've done on mine (Tk3) is 168km, and on that occasion I had a barbag fitted which was probably not a great idea! The geometry is potentially quite aggressive, if you slam the stem, but I don't find it at all uncomfortable or twitchy - and I'm rapidly approaching 60. The barbag, however, doesn't really work (for me) with the geometry, and tends to accentuate the fact that there isn't a lot of trail. Panniers, on the other hand, work extremely well on this frame and do seem to slow the steering down a bit. The glorious thing about this bike is that, on a nice day with no luggage, rack or mudguards, it feels every bit as fast as any of my ostensibly 'fast' bikes. I love it, but the only way you'll know is to have a go on one. There are a number of Kinesis stockists now; is there one near you?