Aluminium frame for audaxing

[jhob]

The longest I've done on mine (Tk3) is 168km, and on that occasion I had a barbag fitted which was probably not a great idea! The geometry is potentially quite aggressive, if you slam the stem, but I don't find it at all uncomfortable or twitchy - and I'm rapidly approaching 60. The barbag, however, doesn't really work (for me) with the geometry, and tends to accentuate the fact that there isn't a lot of trail. Panniers, on the other hand, work extremely well on this frame and do seem to slow the steering down a bit. The glorious thing about this bike is that, on a nice day with no luggage, rack or mudguards, it feels every bit as fast as any of my ostensibly 'fast' bikes. I love it, but the only way you'll know is to have a go on one.

I don't have the stem slammed at all on my bikes - I prefer a semi-relaxed position but with long drop handlebars so I can get down further when I do go aero.  I have not so far used a barbag either.

Your review does make it sound like exactly what I am looking for - fun to ride, but that can also take a bit of load.

There are a number of Kinesis stockists now; is there one near you?

There are, but none of whom who have a demonstrator that I'd be able to actually ride.  Likely more an issue with it being frameset only, that the bike shops are less likely to build up a demonstrator for a people to try.

[TimC]

Yes, you do have to be lucky that they have a bike built that you want to try, but I'm pretty sure the 4S (and the T2) are available fully-built from Kinesis, so you'd hope most dealers would have one or more in stock. The GF Ti - a lot more expensive, I know - is pretty much the same geometry, I think, and you might find one of those to try; at least you'd get some idea of the fit.

[sojournermike]

Yes, you do have to be lucky that they have a bike built that you want to try, but I'm pretty sure the 4S (and the T2) are available fully-built from Kinesis, so you'd hope most dealers would have one or more in stock. The GF Ti - a lot more expensive, I know - is pretty much the same geometry, I think, and you might find one of those to try; at least you'd get some idea of the fit.

Hi John

I can't remember how tall you are, but you can try my GF Ti sometime if it will fit. I can bring down to Bakewell when we're visiting one weekend if the weather is up to snuff.

Cheers

Mike

[jhob]

Yes, you do have to be lucky that they have a bike built that you want to try, but I'm pretty sure the 4S (and the T2) are available fully-built from Kinesis, so you'd hope most dealers would have one or more in stock. The GF Ti - a lot more expensive, I know - is pretty much the same geometry, I think, and you might find one of those to try; at least you'd get some idea of the fit.

Hi John

I can't remember how tall you are, but you can try my GF Ti sometime if it will fit. I can bring down to Bakewell when we're visiting one weekend if the weather is up to snuff.

Cheers

Mike

That would be great if we could could coordinate it.  I seem to recall that you are a similar size to me.  I'm 6ft2 and normally take a frame in 58/60cm range.  Just let me know when you're next down this way and I'll see if I'm about.

[interested]

Could anyone who has covered such distances on a 4s (or predecessors) fares over the longer distances with regard to comfort and handling?

Not an audaxer. Bought my Tk mainly because for some years I had a twice a week 2x30 km commute. Longest stretch I have done on it is probably around 120 km with two panniers and a bar bag. 

The steering isn't twitchy at all, but not sluggish either. Once I am rolling it takes no effort at all to steer it. I always find it a very relaxing ride when I am on my Tk. 
I also find it extremely comfortable with regards to road buzz. I ride in the hoods (Campagnolo) almost all the time, with some riding on the tops. 28 mm tyres probably helps a lot when it comes to comfort. A good fit is probably just as important. I had one of those computer-laserscanner aided fits, which actually proved really useful.
 
My setup is; 36Hx3 wheels with Mavic CXP33 rims, dynamo hub, Brooks B17 saddle since my tops are roughly at saddle height, Campagnolo Ergo shifters. Upgraded from Campagnolo square taper to UT crank. Was surprised to find it improved the "feeling" of the bike considerably giving the same "oneness" with the chainset as on a fixie. A Tubus Logo steel carrier also proved to be a great upgrade, since its extreme stiffness prevented the tail wobbling I experienced with the (admittingly overloaded) lightweight Tortec aluminium carrier I had before.

All in all a fun bike to ride, even with loaded panniers. Should I ever need a new audax-like frame, the Kinesis UK 4S would be my first choice without any doubt.

[jhob]

Could anyone who has covered such distances on a 4s (or predecessors) fares over the longer distances with regard to comfort and handling?

Not an audaxer. Bought my Tk mainly because for some years I had a twice a week 2x30 km commute. Longest stretch I have done on it is probably around 120 km with two panniers and a bar bag. 

The steering isn't twitchy at all, but not sluggish either. Once I am rolling it takes no effort at all to steer it. I always find it a very relaxing ride when I am on my Tk. 
I also find it extremely comfortable with regards to road buzz. I ride in the hoods (Campagnolo) almost all the time, with some riding on the tops. 28 mm tyres probably helps a lot when it comes to comfort. A good fit is probably just as important. I had one of those computer-laserscanner aided fits, which actually proved really useful.
 
My setup is; 36Hx3 wheels with Mavic CXP33 rims, dynamo hub, Brooks B17 saddle since my tops are roughly at saddle height, Campagnolo Ergo shifters. Upgraded from Campagnolo square taper to UT crank. Was surprised to find it improved the "feeling" of the bike considerably giving the same "oneness" with the chainset as on a fixie. A Tubus Logo steel carrier also proved to be a great upgrade, since its extreme stiffness prevented the tail wobbling I experienced with the (admittingly overloaded) lightweight Tortec aluminium carrier I had before.

All in all a fun bike to ride, even with loaded panniers. Should I ever need a new audax-like frame, the Kinesis UK 4S would be my first choice without any doubt.

Thanks, that's a really helpful review. The handling in particular does sound like exactly what I'm looking for.

[sojournermike]

Yes, you do have to be lucky that they have a bike built that you want to try, but I'm pretty sure the 4S (and the T2) are available fully-built from Kinesis, so you'd hope most dealers would have one or more in stock. The GF Ti - a lot more expensive, I know - is pretty much the same geometry, I think, and you might find one of those to try; at least you'd get some idea of the fit.

Hi John

I can't remember how tall you are, but you can try my GF Ti sometime if it will fit. I can bring down to Bakewell when we're visiting one weekend if the weather is up to snuff.

Cheers

Mike

That would be great if we could could coordinate it.  I seem to recall that you are a similar size to me.  I'm 6ft2 and normally take a frame in 58/60cm range.  Just let me know when you're next down this way and I'll see if I'm about.

Hi John

Pm sent

Mike

[ianrauk]

How about Evans' own Pinnacle Dolomite 6.
I have a Pinnancle Pyrolite 2 (which is my day to day commuter) which is near enough, 2014's version of the same bike and is surprisingly comfy over long distances, having done a 7 day tour on it. It comes equipped with Shimano 105 components and hydraulic disc brakes. Can also take full mudguards and panniers. There is also the Dolomite 5 which has a mix of FSA & Shimano, still with Hydraulic Discs, but a few hundred quid cheaper.

[Bianchi Boy]

I have been looking at a frame from Genesis http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/road/frames/equilibrium-725-frameset. O quick search showed that I could get this for £400. This is not much more than the Kinesis T2 and Carbon folks (Not the DC07 - they did not have enough room for 25mm tyres and guards).

I might be getting interested in that one.

BB

[TimC]

Weren't the DC07 forks recalled and replaced by a later model with a bit more room?

[jhob]

Well, I've just ordered the 4s disc frameset!  There's none in the country at the moment but a shipment should be coming in on the 18th according to kinesis.  Hopefully it will then I can spend the Christmas period building it up.

[Samuel D]

How are you planning to build it up? Any particularly interesting bits? (I’m in the process of building up a Spa Audax frame.)

[KM]

Well, I've just ordered the 4s disc frameset!

Good stuff. Do let us know how you get on.

[jhob]

How are you planning to build it up? Any particularly interesting bits? (I’m in the process of building up a Spa Audax frame.)

I'm transferring over the parts from my existing frame so will be a mostly 105 5700 drivetrain, exal xr2 wheels with 3n71 dynamo front hub & black DT Swiss competition spokes as built by me and with my bum parked on a brooks cambium c17 saddle. 

I'm going to get shimano br-r451 long drop callipers for now prior to moving to a disc setup next year. I also currently run Vittoria randonneur 25s and may consider moving to 28s of the same too, will see how it feels on the 25s first though.

[jhob]

Well, I've just ordered the 4s disc frameset!

Good stuff. Do let us know how you get on.

Be a bit of a wait as there's none in my size (60cm) and the colour I want (blue) in the country right now so I've pre-ordered with a shipment due in in the 18th.  Hopefully it will be with me this side of Christmas so I can get it built over the Christmas period.

[jhob]

How are you planning to build it up? Any particularly interesting bits? (I’m in the process of building up a Spa Audax frame.)

I'm transferring over the parts from my existing frame so will be a mostly 105 5700 drivetrain, exal xr2 wheels with 3n71 dynamo front hub & black DT Swiss competition spokes as built by me and with my bum parked on a brooks cambium c17 saddle. 

I'm going to get shimano br-r451 long drop callipers for now prior to moving to a disc setup next year. I also currently run Vittoria randonneur 25s and may consider moving to 28s of the same too, will see how it feels on the 25s first though.

Oh yeah, the other part I've bought specifically are SKS bluemels 35mm full mudguards in Matt bkack, a bit more suitable for winter riding than my current crudcatcher road racers!

[haydenw]

Have you considered the ROSE TEAM DX CROSS RANDONNEUR-2000?

http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bike/rose-team-dx-cross-randonneur-2000/aid:855438

[sojournermike]

How are you planning to build it up? Any particularly interesting bits? (I’m in the process of building up a Spa Audax frame.)

I'm transferring over the parts from my existing frame so will be a mostly 105 5700 drivetrain, exal xr2 wheels with 3n71 dynamo front hub & black DT Swiss competition spokes as built by me and with my bum parked on a brooks cambium c17 saddle. 

I'm going to get shimano br-r451 long drop callipers for now prior to moving to a disc setup next year. I also currently run Vittoria randonneur 25s and may consider moving to 28s of the same too, will see how it feels on the 25s first though.

The 451s are good,but you'll want to buy a set of koolstop holders and pads in between 500 and 700 Miles I suspect. That's the life of my first set of pads on mine.

[jhob]

How are you planning to build it up? Any particularly interesting bits? (I’m in the process of building up a Spa Audax frame.)

I'm transferring over the parts from my existing frame so will be a mostly 105 5700 drivetrain, exal xr2 wheels with 3n71 dynamo front hub & black DT Swiss competition spokes as built by me and with my bum parked on a brooks cambium c17 saddle. 

I'm going to get shimano br-r451 long drop callipers for now prior to moving to a disc setup next year. I also currently run Vittoria randonneur 25s and may consider moving to 28s of the same too, will see how it feels on the 25s first though.

The 451s are good,but you'll want to buy a set of koolstop holders and pads in between 500 and 700 Miles I suspect. That's the life of my first set of pads on mine.

Jamesld8 has kindly offered a pair of br650s from his parts box so I'll be buying those and using them with my existing cartridge pads fitted with Swiss stop blue.

Is intending on using the cartridge pads anyway even if I went with the br451, rim brakes need as much help as they can get in the wet!

[interested]

Have you considered the ROSE TEAM DX CROSS RANDONNEUR-2000?

http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bike/rose-team-dx-cross-randonneur-2000/aid:855438

The frame geometry looks like it is Cyclocross frame with very short top tube. In many aspects a race CX frame is an anti-audax frame, in that it is optimized for maximal power output for a short while (around one hour) with no consideration at all for comfort.  The combination of short top tube and often high bottom bracket may give a very forward leaning position, which is great for going all hammer and tongs, but not so good for long term comfort. 

A shame really, because it has some very nice details like internal wiring for everything, including the dynamo wire seemingly, and Rose bikes are one of the few brands where you can custom order everything on the bike.

[sojournermike]

How are you planning to build it up? Any particularly interesting bits? (I’m in the process of building up a Spa Audax frame.)

I'm transferring over the parts from my existing frame so will be a mostly 105 5700 drivetrain, exal xr2 wheels with 3n71 dynamo front hub & black DT Swiss competition spokes as built by me and with my bum parked on a brooks cambium c17 saddle. 

I'm going to get shimano br-r451 long drop callipers for now prior to moving to a disc setup next year. I also currently run Vittoria randonneur 25s and may consider moving to 28s of the same too, will see how it feels on the 25s first though.

The 451s are good,but you'll want to buy a set of koolstop holders and pads in between 500 and 700 Miles I suspect. That's the life of my first set of pads on mine.

Jamesld8 has kindly offered a pair of br650s from his parts box so I'll be buying those and using them with my existing cartridge pads fitted with Swiss stop blue.

Is intending on using the cartridge pads anyway even if I went with the br451, rim brakes need as much help as they can get in the wet!

Excellent. To be fair, the oem 451 'blocks' stop well enough wet.or dry. They just don't seem to have lasted long on mine.

Looking forward to the grand reveal.

Mike

[jhob]

The racelight 4s disc frame turned up just before Christmas and I hastily built it up in snatched moments over the festive period, completing the build at gone midnight just before a DIY 200 on the 27th.

The build was mostly straight-forward with the internal routing not proving too tricky.  Could have done with some instructions, or at least a brief description of what each of the bits in the parts box were intended for as there was some trial and error involved in working out what went where or what screw should be used with which part.

The main issue I had on the maiden 200 was that one of the gear cables had come unsteaded in the internal routing port.  This made shifting really stiff and eventually partially sliced the ferrule in two across the edge of the port.  Once the shifting was so bad I could barely change gear we stopped to see what the issue was and quickly spotted it.  One sawn off ferrule and re-seated cable later and I was back on my way with much improved shifting!  I also had to tighten up the headset after about 30k, just the bearings bedding in I guess.

As for the ride quality, I have nothing but praise.  It was smooth and handled poor road surfaces really well. All felt very tight and responsive.  Climbs particularly well when out of the saddle and descents feel very controlled.  It certainly did not feel harsh which was my main concern, and that was on vittoria rubino 25s at 80psi

Post-ride I still have a little fettling to do, mostly to do with the cabling (I used the cables that were on the old bike for speed of build initially).  Because the cables enter the frame ports at about 45 degrees I've ended up with a bit of an S curve in the gear cables from handlebars to frame port.  I'm going to re-cable it with some posh jagwire cables and route the gear cables across the headtube, entering the downtube on the opposite side the shifter and then crossing back over internally.  I've checked with kinesis who confirmed that should work fine and will give a smoother routing with fewer bends.  I'll also install inline cable adjusters at the same time.

On the first ride I had also neglected to install the shims for 130mm OLN as I wasn't sure what they were for.  Post-ride research revealed their purpose!

The reach is a about 1.5 shorter than my old bike so I may put on a 130mm stem (currently 120mm), but am going to ride it as-is for now before I make up my mind.

So first impressions are very positive, I hope for many more happy miles on the bike in 2016!

Thanks everyone for their input to this thread and for helping me make a choice.

[TimC]

Glad it's worked out well - welcome to the YACF Kinesis fan club!

[JohnR]

I'm pleased you have finally the right bike, sounds good to me.
80psi on 25c tryes? Isn't this a bit low? Would have thought 100 rear and 90 front more like it. I run 118 rear and 95 front on my 23 conti's, but must admit it's a bit hard on rough surfaces.

Look forward to seeing you on some audaxes. 

[jhob]

I'm pleased you have finally the right bike, sounds good to me.
80psi on 25c tryes? Isn't this a bit low? Would have thought 100 rear and 90 front more like it. I run 118 rear and 95 front on my 23 conti's, but must admit it's a bit hard on rough surfaces.

Look forward to seeing you on some audaxes. 

I used to think 80psi on 25s was a bit low too but there was a long thread on the AUK facebook group about it earlier in the year, after which I started experimenting with lower pressures gradually.  I've been at 80/85 for 3 or 4 months now with no pinch flats (or any other puncture) thus far.  I used to run them at 95/100.  I'm about 74kg which might be why I can get away with it, were I heavier then high pressures would likely be required.