Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => On The Road => Topic started by: Cudzoziemiec on 15 August, 2013, 04:59:06 pm
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The CTC are sending out an email inviting people to take part in a survey on "refreshing the brand."
CTC is beginning a consultation process to consider refreshing our brand. This may mean a new way of describing ourselves and our services, a new look and feel, a new way of using our name - or even a new name altogether.
One or two of the questions suggest they might be considering dropping the "Touring" part from the name. Or maybe not...
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Here's a suggestion: change the name to Cyclists' Touring Club.
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Here's a suggestion: change the name to Cyclists' Touring Club.
I think it still is called that (on the bottom of my renewal letter) although on the website and letters logo it appears to be
CTC the national cycling charity.
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Yes just filled that questionnaire in, to be honest if they change the name that will be the final straw for me!
They have been fucking around with the CTC for so long now it seems Head office are going in a completely different direction to the local groups I am a committee member with. I will be happy to call it a day and just get more involved with my local Audax club.
Shame really, over a 100 years of cycling tradition pissed away for a PR exercise :facepalm:
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Yes just filled that questionnaire in, to be honest if they change the name that will be the final straw for me!
They have been fucking around with the CTC for so long now it seems Head office are going in a completely different direction to the local groups I am a committee member with. I will be happy to call it a day and just get more involved with my local Audax club.
Shame really, over a 100 years of cycling tradition pissed away for a PR exercise :facepalm:
I think AUK are in danger of a similar strategy. So far, steady hands have hung onto the tiller, but I do have my fears.
Currently both organisations still do more-or-less what I want, most of the time - if you ignore the PR!
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I seem to have dropped off of the email list, anyone know how I go about getting put back on?
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Here's a suggestion: change the name to Cyclists' Touring Club.
One of the questions is "Do you know what the initials CTC stand for?" If you tick yes, it then asks you to write it out in full.
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I hate to say I told you so...
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I filled it in -----
Prefer old badge - tick
Like local group activities - tick
Over 60 - tick
Verdict - another senile old dinosaur we can ignore.
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Yes just filled that questionnaire in, to be honest if they change the name that will be the final straw for me!
They have been fucking around with the CTC for so long now it seems Head office are going in a completely different direction to the local groups I am a committee member with. I will be happy to call it a day and just get more involved with my local Audax club.
Shame really, over a 100 years of cycling tradition pissed away for a PR exercise :facepalm:
Yes, but for me it's the local group that's the "real" part of CTC. Weekend or evening rides with a bunch of people (yes sometimes you!) are for me the essence of the CTC. Everything else - campaigning, insurance, magazine, etc - is just an extra, usually welcome but not needed IMO. From that pov changing the name would be both pointless and irrelevant. A harmless waste of time and money. Are people put off by "Touring"? If they are, does it matter?
I'd miss the Winged Wheel though.
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I filled it in -----
Prefer old badge - tick
Like local group activities - tick
Over 60 - tick
Verdict - another senile old dinosaur we can ignore.
Verdict might be "We're already appealing to the people who are our members, we need to change in x way in order to bring in new people."
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I hate to say I told you so...
That is an egregious lie.
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I think they should refresh the brand. Retro is most definitely in, so what about the logo in an old-fashioned script, and representing the freedom of cycling for all by attaching wings to an image of a wheel. Shouldn't be too hard for an intern to photoshop together.
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I think they should refresh the brand. Retro is most definitely in, so what about the logo in an old-fashioned script, and representing the freedom of cycling for all by attaching wings to an image of a wheel. Shouldn't be too hard for an intern to photoshop together.
Then they could get some plates made, enamelled, or cast-iron, say, and stick them on the walls of cycle-friendly establishments, or is that just silly?!
www. Winged Wheels for the Win!
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I think they should refresh the brand. Retro is most definitely in, so what about the logo in an old-fashioned script, and representing the freedom of cycling for all by attaching wings to an image of a wheel. Shouldn't be too hard for an intern to photoshop together.
Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.
:thumbsup:
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I think they should refresh the brand. Retro is most definitely in, so what about the logo in an old-fashioned script, and representing the freedom of cycling for all by attaching wings to an image of a wheel. Shouldn't be too hard for an intern to photoshop together.
Then they could get some plates made, enamelled, or cast-iron, say, and stick them on the walls of cycle-friendly establishments, or is that just silly?!
www. Winged Wheels for the Win!
What a fabulous idea! Very modern, affiliating establishments like that. Perhaps they could also 'Like' them on Bookface.
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I think company and organisation names are important so I believe its right that the CTC should be considering dropping "Touring". It would be interesting to know how many CTC members actually tour, not many I suspect, I am a CTC member but rarely tour :'(
I filled in the questionnaire and indicated I liked the winged wheel logo but wasn't against a name change.
As an aside, I used to work with The Carphone Warehouse long after they finished selling carphones. They had similar debates about dropping "Carphone" from their company name. In the end they opted to keep it.
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Names are important, it's helpful if they give a clue as to what an organisation does or intends to do. Carphone Warehouse is a relevant example because everyone knows what they do even if their name is on the face of it misleading. (I wonder if anyone still goes in there looking for a car phone? Somehow I doubt it.) I think the CTC has long passed the time when it was only interested in touring - in fact I wonder if there ever was a time when that was its exclusive interest - but both it and British Cycling seem to be going through a sort of identity and mission crisis; trying to expand to cover all sorts of cycling and appeal to everyone who sets bum on saddle. Logically there can only be one winner of this race to ubiquity - Sustrans...
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Names are important, it's helpful if they give a clue as to what an organisation does or intends to do. Carphone Warehouse is a relevant example because everyone knows what they do even if their name is on the face of it misleading. (I wonder if anyone still goes in there looking for a car phone? Somehow I doubt it.) I think the CTC has long passed the time when it was only interested in touring - in fact I wonder if there ever was a time when that was its exclusive interest - but both it and British Cycling seem to be going through a sort of identity and mission crisis; trying to expand to cover all sorts of cycling and appeal to everyone who sets bum on saddle. Logically there can only be one winner of this race to ubiquity - Sustrans...
The winner of all this will be British Cycling.
BC has got a good PR team, who are working with a skilled membership department, and they are targetting family, commuter and utility cyclists. They're also becoming far smarter at representing all cyclists - not just the racing snakes - and they are listened to in Whitehall, Cardiff and Edinburgh.
BC's long term membership is growing at a rate of knots in contrast to CTC's decline in numbers. BC has stolen a march on CTC.
The one things that really marked CTC out was the support for touring - the route database in particular. However, this part has been neglected and, with wider acces to internet based mapping and routing programmes, this aspect of CTC's USP is fast disappearing. About the only thing or person of any real unique value left in CTC as a USP now is Chris Juden.
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Presumably the CTC will now be known as the somewhat less snappy
IFoTPG
Insured Families on Towpaths Pressure Group
Except there is a problem collecting the $$$ for the membership. So they are better off attracting grants from government and then claiming back tax as a charity
So presumably they will be known as
Sustrans
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The only problem with BC is that they are rather pro-helmet.
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The only problem with BC is that they are rather pro-helmet.
I doubt that's a big factor in the mind of the Great British Public if and when they are looking for an organisation to represent their cycling interests, or for someone to inform them on cycling issues. CTC is probably still ahead as the go-to organisation for road cycling commentary, but its position is slipping fast and BC are, as Reg said, much more pro-active in doing things that the GBP see and appreciate. Even as a member, I'm not really sure what CTC is for nowadays; it's not really a club (I don't ride with a DA group), it's not a meeting-place, it doesn't seem to care too much about the lot of the rural cyclist (but no-one else does either!). A re-brand? Does anyone care?
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I haven't noticed BC or Sustrans organising local rides every weekend. It's that local social side which I value. personally. Road clubs do it too, but too fast (for me! and way too fast for the people who go on the 'easy rides' to ever contemplate it) and without the cafe and/or pub aspect. Audax rides don't happen with the same regularity and, again, have more of a performance (though not speed) emphasis (though they can be easier and funner rides than a CTC ride of same distance).
Insurance is often mentioned as an attraction by people eg on here, but I don't know how big a pull it is for new members.
Trouble with the morph of CTC and BC is that they will both end up sort of Sustrans Plus. There's room for all three organisations without entering each other's areas.
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The only problem with BC is that they are rather pro-helmet.
I doubt that's a big factor in the mind of the Great British Public if and when they are looking for an organisation to represent their cycling interests, or for someone to inform them on cycling issues. CTC is probably still ahead as the go-to organisation for road cycling commentary, but its position is slipping fast and BC are, as Reg said, much more pro-active in doing things that the GBP see and appreciate. Even as a member, I'm not really sure what CTC is for nowadays; it's not really a club (I don't ride with a DA group), it's not a meeting-place, it doesn't seem to care too much about the lot of the rural cyclist (but no-one else does either!). A re-brand? Does anyone care?
Only a small proportion of the membership does, AFAIK. I don't suppose all of BC's members are involved in racing but I expect it's the majority.
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I like the insurance, the magazine and have recently come to value their affiliate scheme for clubs. If I recall full membership costs sub £50 a year and I think I receive good value for money.
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I haven't noticed BC or Sustrans organising local rides every weekend. It's that local social side which I value.
British Cycling has local groups, many of which organise regular rides of all types. Not all CTC groups have regular rides.
I'm not sure why you keep raising the issue of Sustrans. Sustrans is not a membership organisation for cyclists - it's not a membership orgnanisation full stop. It's a group interested in sustainable transport (hence the name) of all sorts.
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I haven't noticed BC or Sustrans organising local rides every weekend. It's that local social side which I value. personally. Road clubs do it too, but too fast (for me! and way too fast for the people who go on the 'easy rides' to ever contemplate it) and without the cafe and/or pub aspect. Audax rides don't happen with the same regularity and, again, have more of a performance (though not speed) emphasis (though they can be easier and funner rides than a CTC ride of same distance).
Insurance is often mentioned as an attraction by people eg on here, but I don't know how big a pull it is for new members.
Trouble with the morph of CTC and BC is that they will both end up sort of Sustrans Plus. There's room for all three organisations without entering each other's areas.
I've never been on a CTC, BC or Sustrans ride, so I can't really comment about what they offer. There isn't a group close enough to me to be practical, and in any case I'm sure CTC groups are as variable as any other kind of club. My road club (Boxford) organises easy rides that I'm sure would be within your capabilities, and the other local club (CC Sudbury) is very active in Audax, and offers many appropriately-focussed training rides. But that's not really the point; whatever CTC as a national organisation does, local groups will no doubt carry on as before and will suit some people and not others.
The question is what is the national CTC for, and does its brand need changing? And will it make any difference to its apparent slide from national visibility?
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I haven't noticed BC or Sustrans organising local rides every weekend. It's that local social side which I value.
British Cycling has local groups, many of which organise regular rides of all types. Not all CTC groups have regular rides.
I'm not sure why you keep raising the issue of Sustrans. Sustrans is not a membership organisation for cyclists - it's not a membership orgnanisation full stop. It's a group interested in sustainable transport (hence the name) of all sorts.
Call it Cyclebag if you want to be pedantic.
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I haven't noticed BC or Sustrans organising local rides every weekend. It's that local social side which I value. personally. Road clubs do it too, but too fast (for me! and way too fast for the people who go on the 'easy rides' to ever contemplate it) and without the cafe and/or pub aspect. Audax rides don't happen with the same regularity and, again, have more of a performance (though not speed) emphasis (though they can be easier and funner rides than a CTC ride of same distance).
Insurance is often mentioned as an attraction by people eg on here, but I don't know how big a pull it is for new members.
Trouble with the morph of CTC and BC is that they will both end up sort of Sustrans Plus. There's room for all three organisations without entering each other's areas.
I've never been on a CTC, BC or Sustrans ride, so I can't really comment about what they offer. There isn't a group close enough to me to be practical, and in any case I'm sure CTC groups are as variable as any other kind of club. My road club (Boxford) organises easy rides that I'm sure would be within your capabilities, and the other local club (CC Sudbury) is very active in Audax, and offers many appropriately-focussed training rides. But that's not really the point; whatever CTC as a national organisation does, local groups will no doubt carry on as before and will suit some people and not others.
Hopefully.
The question is what is the national CTC for, and does its brand need changing? And will it make any difference to its apparent slide from national visibility?
Apart from providing those local groups and clubs and individuals with some sort of legal framework, including insurance, which they probably could get from BC or elsewhere, it does... Touring advice? Probably not so much now (though maybe a handy first port of call for foreign cyclists planning a tour in UK? Hasn't googlemaps etc made this all a bit irrelevant now?) Campaigning? This, but they're "in competition" with other organisations (including the one Regulator won't let me mention) giving out conflicting messages (well that's good - if they were all saying the same there wouldn't be any point in having more than one!) Training (I think - as far as I see this actually gets done on the ground by a mishmash of local organisations). I think they must be for something but we won't quite know until they stop! Perhaps it would be better if they did fewer things in greater intensity.
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The Skyride and Breeze initiative are part of British Cycling. They have indeed begun to organise lots of local rides, although some of us who have been doing just that for years already under the auspices of other organisations feel they might have been better to do a little bit of consulting with those groups, first. In our area, they managed to get several thousand pounds out of the local council to run 12 rides (led by unpaid volunteers) throughout the summer month (works out at about 1000 per ride, we thought). I have no quibble with anyone organising rides anywhere, but I do think British Cycling could work alongside existing providers of rides, to ensure we don't duplicate our provision. And to make sure we are delivering the greatest range of rides to get as many people involved in cycling as we can.
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The Skyride and Breeze initiative are part of British Cycling. They have indeed begun to organise lots of local rides, although some of us who have been doing just that for years already under the auspices of other organisations feel they might have been better to do a little bit of consulting with those groups, first. In our area, they managed to get several thousand pounds out of the local council to run 12 rides (led by unpaid volunteers) throughout the summer month (works out at about 1000 per ride, we thought). I have no quibble with anyone organising rides anywhere, but I do think British Cycling could work alongside existing providers of rides, to ensure we don't duplicate our provision. And to make sure we are delivering the greatest range of rides to get as many people involved in cycling as we can.
I agree. That said, I know people who have contacted BC about these sorts of matters and found BC to be very open.
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The winner of all this will be British Cycling.
BC has got a good PR team, who are working with a skilled membership department, and they are targetting family, commuter and utility cyclists. They're also becoming far smarter at representing all cyclists - not just the racing snakes - and they are listened to in Whitehall, Cardiff and Edinburgh.
BC's long term membership is growing at a rate of knots in contrast to CTC's decline in numbers. BC has stolen a march on CTC.
I'm not so sure. I suspect they have a team who realised how valuable Wiggins Hoy and Pendleton are. It's quite possible that the CTC would have 'leveraged' that trio too given the chance.
Most recent cycling growth has been driven by the massive media coverage of our competitive riders. The media love it - they don't love utility cycling (as much).
(Before that the growth was in off-roading. A bit of a dead-end as it was more about driving to a muddy hilly area, but a few of the "mountain" bikes sold are now used for commuting/shopping, so not a total disaster. )
No, I'm afraid I don't know how CTC can regain the ground lost. I don't think they should abandon the work done over the last 20 years.
Ideally BC would have worked with CTC. Clubs can quite naturally cover 'BC' type activities and 'CTC' ones - but now bureaucracy/insurance encourages them to pick one. Shame.
The sad thing is that 90% of BC members don't race. (Or race only in TTs and Sportives!)
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I think BC's publicity team may well be a bit better than CTC's, but to be fair the British racing scene has had an awful lot to shout about over the last couple of years, so one can forgive them that! But there's been a fair bit of British long-distance cycling achievement in that timescale too and - given that AUK isn't a campaigning organisation - it might be expected that CTC would 'leverage' that in the same way, and I think perhaps they haven't as much as they might. But perhaps that's a side issue. For my money (which is with CTC so far), BC have done a better job of promoting and representing real-people cycling in the last year than CTC has. It's not a competition, I know, and we should perhaps measure the cumulative effect of all of our cycling organisations' work rather than the relative merits of any particular one, but I feel a little disappointed that CTC is ceding ground to BC. But maybe that's as it should be; it's not who's talking on our behalf, but that several are, and collectively they're doing a pretty good job.
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I'd like to see the PR budget of the two organisations.
Obviously if you include the race budgets, there could be a few zeroes difference!
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I think BC's publicity team may well be a bit better than CTC's, but to be fair the British racing scene has had an awful lot to shout about over the last couple of years, so one can forgive them that! But there's been a fair bit of British long-distance cycling achievement in that timescale too and - given that AUK isn't a campaigning organisation - it might be expected that CTC would 'leverage' that in the same way, and I think perhaps they haven't as much as they might. But perhaps that's a side issue. For my money (which is with CTC so far), BC have done a better job of promoting and representing real-people cycling in the last year than CTC has. It's not a competition, I know, and we should perhaps measure the cumulative effect of all of our cycling organisations' work rather than the relative merits of any particular one, but I feel a little disappointed that CTC is ceding ground to BC. But maybe that's as it should be; it's not who's talking on our behalf, but that several are, and collectively they're doing a pretty good job.
I'm not sure that's just a side issue, it might reflect the change in ideas at CTC's national leadership. Perhaps ten years ago they would have seen this as highly relevant, but increasingly in recent years they've been targeting the commuter and utility cyclist as well as families on pootles of various lengths and ambitions. There's nothing wrong in that, it's always been an important demographic, you might actually say the very core cyclist, but unfortunately it can lead to neglect of the more traditional areas - and bring them into conflict for members with other organisations. As TimC says though, it's good to have people speaking on our behalf and it shouldn't be a competition. How many people are members of BC, CTC and Sustrans (despite what Regulator says, they certainly do canvas for support and use the slogan "join the movement")? I imagine it might be quite a few.
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Let's look at this from a slightly different angle ...
New cyclists will inherently be lacking in confidence, both in their mechanical and nav'ing abilities. If they are 'recruited' by watching Chris Froome sending his teammate back to a team-car, that's the type of riding they may well seek out.
CTC (and AUK), whilst providing lots of support to riders, is more about the self-sufficient style of riding - touring without a support wagon, commuting etc.
So the newer cyclist - reading the glossy press or browsing the web - will be drawn towards fully-supported events, which tend to be the BC side of things.
The only answer is to get newer riders along to their local club rides (CTC or 'proper' clubs) where they can learn stuff. However, current trends seem to be away from clubs - they're seen as old-fashioned. Far more appealing to find 3 (equally clueless) mates and sign up for the local charidee ride and/or sportive (according to 'sporting' ambition).
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I think that encapsulates the CTC's dilemma, Matt. They want those new riders but the newbies aren't attracted to the style of riding CTC does. So do they alter to attract the glossy, speedy, thrill-seeking riders who expect a sag wagon and arrows on the road, or do they try to make the slower, more self-sufficient and less glamorous riding appeal to the shiny newbs? There's an old CTC bod in Bristol - he's risen to the dizzy heights of President of CTC West, or somesuch title - who say it's all a mistake to go after anyone; that CTC's natural audience is people in their 40s, 50s, and up, maybe 30s sometimes, and leave the rest to BC or local road clubs (or sportives and charidees). I think he's got a point but as CTC has long claimed to speak for all (non-racing) cyclists, in campaigning terms - since way before the charity switch - they can't really make do with a membership that's ageing and gradually dying out.
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Fundamentally, CTC will never match BC in terms of membership, so contrary to a lot of opinion they should focus on the TOURING aspect to create their own USP.
For the record I am a member of BC. My renewal came through today at £28 for the year on their ride package. It offers everything I could want really. I don't need organised rides, I have third party liability covered, I have legal advice and accident support a phone call away and they do have a voice in the political arena. Like the venerable Audax UK you also get a car sticker.
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... they can't really make do with a membership that's ageing and gradually dying out.
Think about this - is an older membership inherently "dying out"?
Are retirement homes less busy than 40 years ago?!?
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If they can attract 40 year olds at the same rate as the 80 year olds hang up their wheels, no. But even if they manage to do that, it gives very limited scope for growth, which seems to be what they want now.
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So if you were in the Retirement Home business (or stairlifts say!), would you abandon all hope of growth?
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Is that the image you project for the CTC - the Stannah stairlifts of cycling?
I guess the blue and yellow "drunken bike" logo isn't far off a wheelchair anyway. :D
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If you prefer something sexier ... how about cars? Not many under 17s are buying them. Dying market, innit ..
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They do say car sales are falling throughout the West... Point is though, people find cars attractive and sexy when they're young and by the time they're 40 or 80 they're in the habit of them (and till find them sexy), whereas the CTC is offering something which people won't necessarily get into the habit of. Whether this is necessarily a problem, I'm not sure - it is if the organisation wants to expand and if it wants to represent all cyclists, but if it's happy with it's current make up, that's fine. The growth of BC could mean it declines as cycling expands, cos the cyclists who would have joined CTC are already in BC, but to attract them it has to alter in ways which might not be acceptable to existing members. Parallels with AUK, and no doubt with BC in the future. All roads are good but in different ways.
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I think I agree with this post on the CTC forum. The BBC is a good analogy:
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So my vote would be to stay with CTC even if touring is no longer its main theme because if you change the name you risk losing the history and established reputation which an organisation which has been around a 100+ years should be able to lay claim to. For example, the BBC might think that here in the digital age they should change their name to something like Digital Media Services but that would be a mistake*. The BBC is a very well established brand and unless it was irretrievably damaged (e.g. like the News of the World newspaper) they should stick with it and so should the CTC.
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p.s. Cudzo, please stop waffling and admit that an organisation with few under 30s is not necessarliy "dying out" ;D
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Waffles are eaten in Sweden on 25th March because the word våffla is similar to Vår Fru (The Virgin Mary). Or so Wikipedia told me (I was looking up Michaelmas yesterday and that led to other quarter days).
As I said several posts above, it all depends on attracting people at the same rate or faster than the older ones leave. That, plus the question of whether you can legitimately claim to represent all cyclists when your members are predominantly rather older than the average.
I'd like cinnamon on mine.
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Let's look at this from a slightly different angle ...
New cyclists will inherently be lacking in confidence, both in their mechanical and nav'ing abilities. If they are 'recruited' by watching Chris Froome sending his teammate back to a team-car, that's the type of riding they may well seek out.
CTC (and AUK), whilst providing lots of support to riders, is more about the self-sufficient style of riding - touring without a support wagon, commuting etc.
So the newer cyclist - reading the glossy press or browsing the web - will be drawn towards fully-supported events, which tend to be the BC side of things.
The only answer is to get newer riders along to their local club rides (CTC or 'proper' clubs) where they can learn stuff. However, current trends seem to be away from clubs - they're seen as old-fashioned. Far more appealing to find 3 (equally clueless) mates and sign up for the local charidee ride and/or sportive (according to 'sporting' ambition).
I think you're probably identifying the "problem" we've had with two local groups/clubs (one is a CTC Member Group) ... an awful lot of the "new cyclists" are : Time Poor - Cash Rich .. in other words they can buy smart bikes and all the gear (even with no idea!) - BUT have limited time to spend riding - for a host of reasons - and want to blast along for a couple of hours ... thus tilting the whole cycling thing in yet another direction.
Rob
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There has to be a Yurt in here somewhere. National Trust are kicking their farmers out atm 'cos rent potential is rising (allegedly). Sod all to do with Bankers cocking it up. YHA Scotland are going the same way as YHA England and selling off the family silver. Seems that there is an overall general 'modernisation' agenda via the pinstripes atm. We should all be maximising our bling potential apparently. Strewth. Now why was the CTC founded remind me? Did it actually have something to do with its members?
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Let's look at this from a slightly different angle ...
New cyclists will inherently be lacking in confidence, both in their mechanical and nav'ing abilities. If they are 'recruited' by watching Chris Froome sending his teammate back to a team-car, that's the type of riding they may well seek out.
CTC (and AUK), whilst providing lots of support to riders, is more about the self-sufficient style of riding - touring without a support wagon, commuting etc.
So the newer cyclist - reading the glossy press or browsing the web - will be drawn towards fully-supported events, which tend to be the BC side of things.
The only answer is to get newer riders along to their local club rides (CTC or 'proper' clubs) where they can learn stuff. However, current trends seem to be away from clubs - they're seen as old-fashioned. Far more appealing to find 3 (equally clueless) mates and sign up for the local charidee ride and/or sportive (according to 'sporting' ambition).
I think you're probably identifying the "problem" we've had with two local groups/clubs (one is a CTC Member Group) ... an awful lot of the "new cyclists" are : Time Poor - Cash Rich .. in other words they can buy smart bikes and all the gear (even with no idea!) - BUT have limited time to spend riding - for a host of reasons - and want to blast along for a couple of hours ... thus tilting the whole cycling thing in yet another direction.
Rob
Is this type of cyclist a problem?
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Rob, just to be clear, I'm not criticising you. I just hear a lot of criticism of riders not fitting in with older models of clubs.
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Rob, just to be clear, I'm not criticising you. I just hear a lot of criticism of riders not fitting in with older models of clubs.
Which is the essence of it. Do the clubs then change to suit the new majority of riders or stick with the dwindling number (or at least proportion...) of members who fit into their old scheme? There's good and bad both ways, seems to me.
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Rob, just to be clear, I'm not criticising you. I just hear a lot of criticism of riders not fitting in with older models of clubs.
That's why the word "problem" was in quotes .... it's just a factor ... among many. The spectrum of cycling needs and desires is so wide that any critical mass almost unachievable.
Whether one organisation can be all things to all men* would seem doubtful ...although the threads over on the CTC Forum perhaps suggest that British Cycling is making a better fist of it?
Rob
* and women
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The only answer is to get newer riders along to their local club rides (CTC or 'proper' clubs) where they can learn stuff. However, current trends seem to be away from clubs - they're seen as old-fashioned. Far more appealing to find 3 (equally clueless) mates and sign up for the local charidee ride and/or sportive (according to 'sporting' ambition).
This is one of our growth areas. 'Get fit for the etape or whichever big ride by riding with us' and we are picking up riders (which we need to convert into members). A bit of encouragement and on they go.
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Time poor - cash rich.
We have some riders who seem to have all the time in the world. They think nothing of a gentle 140 mile run up to Ben Lawers and back, via one of the more scenic routes.
Then we have some riders who don't have the time or the talent for that and will do a club run, back early afternoon.
And then we have some who we see occasionally and they get out and ride on the 20 mile midweek runs.
The key is to be welcoming and (as one of th elocal clubs put it int her guidelines for recruitment policy points 1,3,5,7 and 9) Don't be an arse. If they get put down or belittled then they won't come back. If they get encouraged and praised then they will feel accepted, even if their performance is away from where they want it to be.
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Time poor - cash rich.
We have some riders who seem to have all the time in the world. They think nothing of a gentle 140 mile run up to Ben Lawers and back, via one of the more scenic routes.
Then we have some riders who don't have the time or the talent for that and will do a club run, back early afternoon.
And then we have some who we see occasionally and they get out and ride on the 20 mile midweek runs.
The key is to be welcoming and (as one of th elocal clubs put it int her guidelines for recruitment policy points 1,3,5,7 and 9) Don't be an arse. If they get put down or belittled then they won't come back. If they get encouraged and praised then they will feel accepted, even if their performance is away from where they want it to be.
All of these are leisure cyclists, and like most leisure activities, the protagonists like to group together in clubs; yet we seem to be bemoaning the lack of accommodation of the utility cyclist. But how many car drivers are in a club? How many feel that their particular commuting route needs a collective organisation of which they should be a member? I'd hazard a guess that the answer is 'none'! I'm pretty sure that most utility cyclists for whom getting on a bike is a means to an end equally feel at best ambivalent to the idea of joining a club, however much they might appreciate those organisations that agitate on their behalf.
BC has gone after the burgeoning MAMIL market to bolster its membership, but hasn't forgotten that the utility sector needs representation. CTC is also doing a reasonable job of representing utility cyclists, but hasn't done that much to widen its potential membership net. Is that a problem? I'm not sure it is if its income is sufficient (and increasing) from its 'charity' activities to fund the representative functions. The club side of CTC will go on as it has for many years, pretty oblivious to all this, so long as their active club members continue to be active an want what the traditional CTC DAs provide.
So, what would a re-branding of CTC achieve? Very little, I think.
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Let's look at this from a slightly different angle ...
New cyclists will inherently be lacking in confidence, both in their mechanical and nav'ing abilities. If they are 'recruited' by watching Chris Froome sending his teammate back to a team-car, that's the type of riding they may well seek out.
CTC (and AUK), whilst providing lots of support to riders, is more about the self-sufficient style of riding - touring without a support wagon, commuting etc.
So the newer cyclist - reading the glossy press or browsing the web - will be drawn towards fully-supported events, which tend to be the BC side of things.
The only answer is to get newer riders along to their local club rides (CTC or 'proper' clubs) where they can learn stuff. However, current trends seem to be away from clubs - they're seen as old-fashioned. Far more appealing to find 3 (equally clueless) mates and sign up for the local charidee ride and/or sportive (according to 'sporting' ambition).
I think you're probably identifying the "problem" we've had with two local groups/clubs (one is a CTC Member Group) ... an awful lot of the "new cyclists" are : Time Poor - Cash Rich .. in other words they can buy smart bikes and all the gear (even with no idea!) - BUT have limited time to spend riding - for a host of reasons - and want to blast along for a couple of hours ... thus tilting the whole cycling thing in yet another direction.
Rob
Is this type of cyclist a problem?
They are if you're in charge of CTC and see a significant potential revenue stream and existing customers dissappearing to BC.
I think mattc's points above are spot-on.
The nature of cycling as a leisure activity is certainly changing. The largest growth sector (especially in £ terms) must be the 'MAMIL' (for want of a better shorthand) segment and from what I gather their leanings are wholeheartedly towards BC membership. Like it or not, they tend to pigeonhole CTC as quaint and old-fashined along with Audax, Carradice, beards & sandals and old farts like me that carry chain splitters and know how to use them.
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MAMILs are not the target for market development - women are. MAMILs are an existing market. The forward thinking are setting up programs to specifically reach out to these groups.
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But MAMILs and MAMs are a relatively transitory market - a (welcome) symptom of sport and leisure cycling's current popularity. But that popularity will eventually wane, as these things do; but the need for improvements in the provisions for utility cycling and cyclists will not go away, and must be tackled if we are to achieve a large-scale move from car to bike. In the Netherlands, Denmark and Germany that is where the effort has gone, and it's been rewarded. Sport and leisure cycling exists, but doesn't drive the agenda like it does here - but shouldn't, IMO. It doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things that BC has managed to get more leisure cyclists to join its ranks than CTC has; what matters is what they both do to drive the long-term, sustainable move to human-powered transport - while, of course, not abandoning those who [also] cycle for pleasure.
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Just what is it people want a national touring club to do? Apart from financially supporting a national rally, like York, I can't think of anything that isn't either better done on a local level or isn't better done elsewhere. When I started touring the information gathered and distributed by the CTC was invaluable, now I have Google. The local groups have been poorly supported, but all the evidence is that this has been recognised and is being addressed. It's easier than ever to set up a new group or affiliate a club. And funding is available in addition to the allocation grant for any project you can make a simple case for. IMO this is the role a national organisation with an interest in touring should be fulfilling, I hope the improvements I've seen over the last five years continue. If that was all the CTC did it would be a pretty small club, and even as an old school touring cyclist I have to recognise that. It's a big club with diverse interests, that's good for cycling even is it isn't necessarily the best for me.
BC is riding high after it's major rebranding and name change, bolstered by Murdoch's millions and getting a lot of attention, good, the more positive noise the better. I saw a recent Skyride in Southampton, there was more there for free than at the £12 to enter Orbital festival I was at the day before. Someone is paying for that and we have to realise that the golden goose will be off elsewhere the moment it's no longer an advantage for the Murdoch Brands. One of the criticisms of the CTC during the charitee debate was the vulnerability of it's funding, maybe those critics ought to consider the security of BCs finances before praising it so highly. I suspect if the funds were to reduce, it wouldn't be it's core sports activities that suffered first. One of the other criticisms during the charitee debate was how it would affect the influence of members on policy, I have no idea how BC make their policy, but there doesn't seem much membership involvement.
I'd support a name change if it was to something that better represented what the CTC do. I couldn't care less about the winged wheel, it has an historical importance, but it looks of its time and isn't the best emblem to represent the present organisation. Not only that, nobody knows what it's about. Try this; show it to people who don't associate you with cycling and see what they think it is. When I tried that more thought it had something to do with flying than cycling.
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Back to the name.
Anyone remember Consignia?
Case closed, IMO.
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Back to the name.
Anyone remember Consignia?
Case closed, IMO.
Anyone remember Snickers?
What's your point?
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I thought it was bleeding obvious.
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London Cycling Campaign became much more focused and dynamic after a good consultation exercise with members and a new CEO. Let's hope CTC achieve the same.
CTC need the clarity of purpose that LCC, BC, Sustrans and Cycling Embassy of GB have.
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I vote to change the name to "Cyclastia" and automatically bar any members once they reach the age of 30. They could increase the revenue stream by offering cheap loans and incentivise members by offering free iTunes tokens when they renew.
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I thought it was bleeding obvious.
It isn't. If anything CTC is the clubs Consignia. It doesn't say what it is and nobody knows what it means.
CTC dropped Touring because it was no longer the main focus, it should have given more thought then to a name to replace it. It's never had the profile to be known as it's initials.
BC dropped Federation from it's name when that was no longer appropriate, it was still left with a great name.
If your point is that some name changes don't work, no shit. That's an argument for getting it right rather than closing the case, for every example of a poor change I can give you one that's been of benefit to the organisation. I'll start if you want - Tom Crowther changed to Mercian
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Back to the name.
Anyone remember Consignia?
Case closed, IMO.
Anyone remember Snickers?
What's your point?
Just to be pedantic ... I think you mean does anyone remember Marathon? - which morphed into Snickers in the early 1990s - and a after that Opal Fruits became Starburst ... another Mars rebranding exercise
Rob
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Back to the name.
Anyone remember Consignia?
Case closed, IMO.
Anyone remember Snickers?
What's your point?
Just to be pedantic ... I think you mean does anyone remember Marathon? - which morphed into Snickers in the early 1990s - and a after that Opal Fruits became Starburst ... another Mars rebranding exercise
Rob
Ha, yes you're right, what's in a name.
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I'm surprised I have to explain this.
CTC has been around since the year dot. It has been associated with cycling since the days when winged wheels were being put on pub walls. They don't say "Cyclists Touring Club", they have the letters C T C on them. It's as old as the full-length name.
Neither CTC nor the Cyclists Touring Club have as high a profile as Royal Mail, but that won't be changed by a change of name. There is no simple way to change the name in the way BCF did without losing what profile it has - unlike BCF/BC.
Any name change would be very risky indeed. A great deal could be lost, & the chance of gaining anything is small.
Tom Crowther/Mercian is irrelevant. Utterly different scale & type of enterprise. He was dealing on a personal level, no doubt with many personal recommendations.
And it wasn't just the choice of name that was wrong in the Consignia case. There was no point in the change at all, regardless of what it was changed to.
BTW, do you really believe that the CTC is capable of coming up with a name so much better that it would not only be good enough to make up for the usual disadvantages of a name change, but would justify the cost?
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I'm surprised I have to explain this.
CTC has been around since the year dot. It has been associated with cycling since the days when winged wheels were being put on pub walls. They don't say "Cyclists Touring Club", they have the letters C T C on them. It's as old as the full-length name.
Neither CTC nor the Cyclists Touring Club have as high a profile as Royal Mail, but that won't be changed by a change of name. There is no simple way to change the name in the way BCF did without losing what profile it has - unlike BCF/BC.
Tom Crowther/Mercian is irrelevant. Utterly different scale & type of enterprise. He was dealing on a personal level, no doubt with many personal recommendations.
Well it's good that you do have an argument, rather than just some toys to throw about. It's one I disagree with, I believe it's profile is so low that loosing it would be of little consequence if what it gained was a name that didn't need explaining.
BTW, do you really believe that the CTC is capable of coming up with a name so much better that it would not only be good enough to make up for the usual disadvantages of a name change, but would justify the cost?
I don't know. It's a consultation, it's looking into the possibilities, I do really believe that's what is should be doing.
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I'd say its profile amongst cyclists is quite high (its appeal may not be, that's a separate matter) but among non-cyclists who ride bikes (utility riders, summer Sunday pootlers, etc) it's much lower.
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I'd say its profile amongst cyclists is quite high (its appeal may not be, that's a separate matter) but among non-cyclists who ride bikes (utility riders, summer Sunday pootlers, etc) it's much lower.
I've had several of such ask me what CTC stands for in response to seeing my mudguard sticker.
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I don't know why they had to change from Bicycle Touring Club ;)
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Seems reminiscent of the recent re-branding of the RNID (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_on_Hearing_Loss) to reflect their change in focus. Not an inherently bad idea from a campaigning viewpoint, but a source of frustration for everyone else.
I just hope they don't pick a new name that's excessively naff.
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I'd say its profile amongst cyclists is quite high (its appeal may not be, that's a separate matter) but among non-cyclists who ride bikes (utility riders, summer Sunday pootlers, etc) it's much lower.
I've had several of such ask me what CTC stands for in response to seeing my mudguard sticker.
Is that after they'd asked you what mudguards are?
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They could take BC's lead and drop one word and call themselves "cyclists' club". Pretty inclusive.
There was a comment about motorists not joining a club upthread. Many motorists are AA or RAC members. Mostly for the breakdown service. But that doesn't stop the AA and RAC campaigning and setting themselves up to "speak for" motorists.
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I doubt anyone joins the AA or RAC because they feel the need to commune with like-thinking others. They join because they want the breakdown service. The profits from that allow those organisations to employ people to think and speak about the lot of the motorist (and, in the AA's case, the cyclist too to some extent).
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A classic case of being 'stuck in the middle'.
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If they were a membership organisation run for and on behalf of their members then they could be called 'The Cyclists Cub' ....
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rumour on facebook that this matter - the name change - was discussed at a meeting this week
any further info on this?
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Latest rumour is that this logo has been registered and that this might be the new name for the CTC
(https://www.ipo.gov.uk/trademark/image/GB50110000003150027.jpg)
Intellectual Property Office link (https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00003150027)
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and here is the other colours
(https://www.ipo.gov.uk/trademark/image/GB50120000003150027.jpg)
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That's so confused it's incredible.......perfect.
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Why not just use Comic Sans and have done with it?
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Given that 98% of the UK population seldom get on their bikes, it's SO tempting to sabotage that to we aren't cyclIng UK...
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If it were me I would have done UK Cycling rather than Cycling UK, then you'd have ' ukc ' which is much easier to distort into a silly little picture of a person on a bike like ' ctc' was. It would appease all those who mourn the demise of the touring club as the 'u' looks like a big pannier ;D Damn, where do I sign up to become an advertising professional?
With my CTC hat on I must tell everyone to please scroll on past the new logo as you are all very naughty for looking at it, and you'll spoil your surprise come April 1st.
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It's an uninspired and bland logo. The way the last line starts one sentence before it's finished the name is crap too. But is it just a logo or is the CTC to officially rename itself? And if it does, will all the 'member groups' automatically change from Somewhere CTC (or is it CTC Somewhere?) to Somewhere Cycling UK (or will it be Cycling UK Somewhere?)? Either way, a combination of UK and specific place name is going to be a bit silly.
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So will UK Cycling represent Northern Ireland in a way that British Cycling won't? Will there be some kind of power sharing agreement?
I'll get me (trench)coat.
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Krapp.
Horrible, confused, insipid, and not a winged wheel anywhere in sight!
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Painted faces next I tell you. You heard it here first.
If I were back in the UK, I'm not entirely sure I'd rejoin the CTC. I think I'd be sussing out the alternatives (primarily for insurance). It's just an itch, a gut feel I have from afar, from the comments made here and elsewhere over recent years, but I'm not sure the CTC fits my cycling persona anymore... if you know what I mean.
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Could that logo be any more infantile? Is this a serious advocacy organization or a playgroup?
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Well you may ask...
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Ten replies and no-one has yet mentioned the misplaced apostrophe. If they really do mean a plural possessive, that seems somewhat of a patronising generalisation. Who are "The cyclists"? "The cyclist's champion" perhaps, "Cyclists' champion" at a stretch but not "The cyclists' champion". I suppose they mean The Champion of cyclists', but should this not be an April Fool, I shall forever read it as "Champion of The Cyclists".
Still, I suppose random use of apostrophe's is very modern and down with the kid's.
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Fing is, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.
An organisation called the Cyclist's Touring Club won't have broad appeal cos not that many people wanna go cycle touring. The CTC means even less cos folks will go "What the fook does CTC stand for?"
The CTC, rightly or wrongly, wants to promote cycling in the UK so neither the Cyclist's Touring Club or CTC really fits.
Don't think the above means I'm a big fan of what the CTC are trying to do, at best I'm neutral about their aims. Same with Sustrans. I'm a much bigger fan of folks organising their own small scale stuff at a local level rather than big organistions trying to do it from a national level. And yes I know the CTC operate at a local level as do Sustrans. And yes, Witham Cycling (link below) is affiliated to the CTC.
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Well at least they didn't pick a large soaring eagle when their name is frequently abbreviated to that of a small clumsy sea bird. Stones could be cast.
The problem I have is what is the actual organisation name? - "cycling", "cycling UK", "we are cycling UK"
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So will UK Cycling represent Northern Ireland in a way that British Cycling won't? Will there be some kind of power sharing agreement?
I'll get me (trench)coat.
Yes. In exactly the same way that AUK represents NI.
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Fing is, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.
An organisation called the Cyclist's Touring Club won't have broad appeal cos not that many people wanna go cycle touring. The CTC means even less cos folks will go "What the fook does CTC stand for?"
The CTC, rightly or wrongly, wants to promote cycling in the UK so neither the Cyclist's Touring Club or CTC really fits.
Indeed. It's like Action On Hearing Loss: Nobody knows who they are[1] any more, but at least they have a name that reflects what they're doing, rather than one that reflects historical roots that they've evolved far enough away from to be actually problematic.
And their logo's better than that one. Keming and all.
[1] The RNID m'lud.
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[1] The RNID m'lud.
Forever immortalised by Deaf signer community as Really Not Interested in Deaf. ;)
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Fing is, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.
An organisation called the Cyclist's Touring Club won't have broad appeal cos not that many people wanna go cycle touring. The CTC means even less cos folks will go "What the fook does CTC stand for?"
The CTC, rightly or wrongly, wants to promote cycling in the UK so neither the Cyclist's Touring Club or CTC really fits.
Don't think the above means I'm a big fan of what the CTC are trying to do, at best I'm neutral about their aims. Same with Sustrans. I'm a much bigger fan of folks organising their own small scale stuff at a local level rather than big organistions trying to do it from a national level. And yes I know the CTC operate at a local level as do Sustrans. And yes, Witham Cycling (link below) is affiliated to the CTC.
Agreed, the CTC name doesn't fit with their current aims and purposes, but does the new name convey anything much? To the great uninitiated, which is presumably who they're aiming for – "bike users" rather than "cyclists" etc – it sounds like a rebranding of British Cycling. It's a bit like English Heritage and Historic England (and presumably other "home nation" variants). And at least British Cycling have a half-decent logo.
Meanwhile, they've got a small but dedicated membership who are attached to the CTC name and the winged wheel logo (I don't think the blue and yellow sloping cyclist symbol has great significance for many people). So how about keeping the CTC name as a club for (nominally) tourists but setting up the Cycling UK organisation alongside as a charity and campaigning body?
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[1] The RNID m'lud.
Forever immortalised by Deaf signer community as Really Not Interested in Deaf. ;)
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4614346,-2.5927606,3a,75y,239.88h,115.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCHJK5ENsRO9HBNM9CUzy3g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
"Bristol Institute for the Deaf & Dumb"
Pan through 180 degrees and you'll see a 1960s or 70s building called Kings Centre, which is the current meeting place of Hearing Impaired People (presumably, though I'm not sure, under the auspices of the above Action on Hearing Loss).
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We need a paramilitary wing, stop messing about.
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Could that logo be any more infantile? Is this a serious advocacy organization or a playgroup?
I think it's designed not to frighten those who are a bit wobbly on two wheels.
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Fing is, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.
An organisation called the Cyclist's Touring Club won't have broad appeal cos not that many people wanna go cycle touring. The CTC means even less cos folks will go "What the fook does CTC stand for?"
The CTC, rightly or wrongly, wants to promote cycling in the UK so neither the Cyclist's Touring Club or CTC really fits.
Don't think the above means I'm a big fan of what the CTC are trying to do, at best I'm neutral about their aims. Same with Sustrans. I'm a much bigger fan of folks organising their own small scale stuff at a local level rather than big organistions trying to do it from a national level. And yes I know the CTC operate at a local level as do Sustrans. And yes, Witham Cycling (link below) is affiliated to the CTC.
well said
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Latest rumour is that this logo has been registered and that this might be the new name for the CTC
(https://www.ipo.gov.uk/trademark/image/GB50110000003150027.jpg)
Intellectual Property Office link (https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00003150027)
IF YOU WOULD LIKE A COPY OF THIS PETITION PLEASE EMAIL philipbenstead1@gmail.com
CTC Members
CTC Local Group Secretary
CTC Affiliate Groups
Cyclists’ Touring Club (CTC)
Philip Benstead
CTC Brand Petition,
19 Greencoat Mansions,
Greencoat Row,
Westminster,
London, SW1P 1PG
philipbenstead1@gmail.com
0794-980-1698
18 February 2016
Dear Secretary/Member
If sent to you in error, please forward to the correct person.
CHANGE OF THE BRANDING NAME OF THE “CTC” to “CYCLING UK”
DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB
You and your CTC members may have become aware that at the Cyclists’ Touring Club (CTC) Council meeting on 23rd January 2016 agreed on a vote of 10 to 5 to replace the existing “Cyclists` Touring Club or CTC” and associated logo(s) and heritage marks with “CYCLING UK” or another branding name and logo(s). https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00003150027
We are petitioning the CTC to demand a poll of the whole club so CTC members will have the opportunity to indorse or overturn the motion.
It is our opinion the entire decision-making process was flawed and any dissent was either ignored or shouted down. A similar technique was used regarding the governance issue, but more of that a little in the future. We need 200 valued CTC members signing, but I want many more to avoid any being discounted and to show the strength of feeling.
It has been drawn to our attention that there are already similarly named cycling-related internet sites
https://www.facebook.com/ucyclingk/?fref=ts
https://twitter.com/CyclingUKNews
http://cycleuk.bike/
Please could you circulate this petition to fully paid up CTC members.
Please ensure that their name/number is legible and that they must also sign it in black or blue ink/biro.
Please note that we have the support of some councillors.
We are seeking the poll details to be in the April/May edition of “Cycle”; so time is short.
Please return the completed sheets in an A4 size envelope to me ASAP at
Philip Benstead CTC Brand Petition,
19 Greencoat Mansions, Greencoat Row, Westminster, London, SW1P 1PG.
Please ensure the correct first class postage is used, you need to use the Large Letter rate of 100g = 95p, 250g = £1.26, 500g = £1.68, 750g = £2.42.
NB Data Protection Act, your email address was obtained from a public available source on the internet.
Many thanks for your help,
Philip Benstead
BRAND PETITION COORDINATOR AND POST-BOX
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I've no idea what a cyclists touring club is. I confess I always assumed it was something like dogging, but involving bike rides and liberally lubricated clefts. Somewhere between Ann Summers and Tupperware on the perversion stakes. Not as bad as Tupperware, of course.
One presumes they'll let a proper designer lose on that logo, that's not kerning, it's anti-kerning. When letters repel. Or you design a logo in Microsoft Paint.
No one cares what organizations are called, and all those logos that stood the test of time were the ones everyone hated. If you could invent a logo that unified the entire planet in coherent loathing, you'd effectively own the entire universe. You be able to buy Google (see, Alpha-fucking-bet) with the change you found down the back of your sofa. If you start a company and everyone says man, that's a cool logo, you couldn't be more fucked if you locked yourself in a small room with a programmed to be perpetually randy sexbot and large supply of sexual lubricant.
Still, this could all be sleight of hand, possibly they're planning to rename themselves We Hate Phil UK.
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It has to be said, when you step out on your £3000 carbon team issue race bike, in you latest Rapha kit, with that logo brazened across your chest and back for all to see, you are going to feel a bit of a dill. It's not trendy, it's not hip and it's got no aggression to it. I can see why many don't like it. It appears though, that MGs are not going to e made to change all of their kit or names, etc...so no big shakes.
If, on the other hand, you know nothing about cycling but would like to have a gentle 4 mile ride with the kids of a Sunday morning, but are put off by organisations that are all lyrca, curly handlebars and enigmatic, archaic symbology then something like this might attract. Not saying that I like it....but I can very much see why it is what it is. Just surprised that there isn't a smiley face on top of the 'i' in 'cycling'.
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It has to be said, when you step out on your £3000 carbon team issue race bike, in you latest Rapha kit,
And that is why they are more likely to be a member of BC than a club originally formed to support cycle touring, even though the 'touring' club is aiming to appeal to cyclists that may never consider touring on a bike but would like to be a member of 'something' that supports cycling and represents them.
BC Ride membership identified a need and in conjunction with the Sky Ride has seen an increase in membership and a profile that many non-racing folk can relate to.
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I've just been reading the email sent out by Prof David Cox, CTC Chair, in response to the move by Philip Benstead to organise a poll of the membership which will challenge the rebrand. I don't think Philip will be getting a Christmas card from David this year.
I'm sure there is a bigger picture here that I'm probably too shallow and ill informed to appreciate, and I am all for people being passionate about stuff, but I'm struggling to understand why the issue has caused such outrage. Shouldn't we be just riding our bikes rather than trying to organise polls (which apparently will cost £14k)? If anyone doesn't like the CTC / Cycling UK just leave!
Like I said, maybe I'm just being shallow. I shall ponder the matter whilst riding my bike tomorrow. I won't be wearing my classic CTC top as it's in the wash having got soaked with sweat during this morning's spinning class.
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Quote from CEO:
"Cycling UK's strapline will be "we are Cycling UK – The cyclists' champion". The new logo uses the Cocon font, as used by Durex and the National Lottery."
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Some quotes from the David Cox email I mentioned earlier (note the references to Winged Wheels) ...
What does this mean for Member Groups?
CTC Member Groups will not need to change their names, their jerseys or other aspects of their branding unless they want to. Most Member Groups have a clear identity and touring orientation that is well recognised by local club cyclists and they will be free to maintain that identity. It will continue to be possible to obtain classic kit and winged wheel badges – and we plan to develop further items drawing on the charity’s rich heritage.
What does this mean for the winged wheel?
There will be many charities who will be jealous of our rich history and such iconic assets like our winged wheel, and rightly so. We will continue to promote our heritage as a very important part of our wider brand, which will include continuing to use the winged wheel.
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http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/ctc-to-be-rebranded-as-cycling-uk/019104
CHANGE OF THE BRANDING NAME OF THE “CTC” to “CYCLING UK”
DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB
We have made it on to BikeBiz go to the bottom of the page
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I've just read David Cox's email (though I had to rely on Facebook, despite being signed up to emails from the CTC). Going after the petitioner, and a member of your own organisation is beneath the chair of an organisation's council.
Also, considering he appears so concerned about the potential £14k cost of a vote, I would be very interested to know what the cost of the rebrand is, and how that money could be better spent in the same way as he explained the £14k. My bet is that rebranding is going to be significantly more expensive than Philip's vote would be.
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I also never received any specific email about rebranding but saw the Facebook post.
I get bot Cycle Clips and Club Shorts by regular email.
I think the new brand sound FAR to similar to other cycling organisations past and present, like cycling England and British Cycling.
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Some quotes from the David Cox email I mentioned earlier (note the references to Winged Wheels) ...
What does this mean for Member Groups?
CTC Member Groups will not need to change their names, their jerseys or other aspects of their branding unless they want to. Most Member Groups have a clear identity and touring orientation that is well recognised by local club cyclists and they will be free to maintain that identity. It will continue to be possible to obtain classic kit and winged wheel badges – and we plan to develop further items drawing on the charity’s rich heritage.
What does this mean for the winged wheel?
There will be many charities who will be jealous of our rich history and such iconic assets like our winged wheel, and rightly so. We will continue to promote our heritage as a very important part of our wider brand, which will include continuing to use the winged wheel.
Is it actually possible to obtain winged wheel badges, other than on ebay? I've wanted one ever since I lost the one I got when I joined CTC the first time!
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I have a cloth winged wheel badge from when I joined the CTC first around in the 80s. It looks good sewn onto a Carradice Barley.
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Yeah, I had a metal pin-on badge from about 1986. Had.
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What on Earth is the £14,000 for? Postage? Including postage to deceased members, I bet.
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Services of electoral specialists? I believe AUK has a cost associated with the voting by all members option which is equivalent to a ballot.
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Indeed. You probably want to get someone like Electoral Reform Services involved with this kind of thing because i) they know how to do it, and ii) they're independent, so you're making it a lot harder for the losing side to claim that someone dun 'em up like a kipper.
But that means there's a cash cost involved, which is a) almost certainly more than the cost of staff time and internal systems (though I reckon there's probably much less of a differential than most people think, especially if there's a significant opportunity cost of your staff being diverted from their day jobs onto a task they are having to learn as they go along), and b) much more obvious to the members.
(AUK's cost this time was something of the order of £2.5k for about 6.5k members, with almost all ballots distributed and cast electronically. The price rises very sharply as soon as you start sending out printed copies.)
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^^^^ and CTC membership is 60,000?
£14k could be justified.
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CTC has 67,000 members apparently.
Personally I think the rebrand is a massive waste of time and money.
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IF they really want to be the Cyclist's champion why not merge with BC and just get on with it?
The rebranding is an overdue , but otherwise pathetic attempt to get the sort of attention that BC have been getting.
BC have stolen the campaigning mantle , with their inspired use of Chris Boardman as front man for their road space campaigns.
CTC started losing the plot some time ago and now they have just completely lost it.
The rebrand was implemented after consultation with members and stakeholders such as national and local government.
No attempt to put it to the AGM or a member poll.
CTC has been hijacked by the professional charity managers and has lost it's soul.
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They've also nicked Cyclechat's colour scheme
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I think it's lovely.
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IF they really want to be the Cyclist's champion why not merge with BC and just get on with it?
The rebranding is an overdue , but otherwise pathetic attempt to get the sort of attention that BC have been getting.
BC have stolen the campaigning mantle , with their inspired use of Chris Boardman as front man for their road space campaigns.
CTC started losing the plot some time ago and now they have just completely lost it.
The rebrand was implemented after consultation with members and stakeholders such as national and local government.
No attempt to put it to the AGM or a member poll.
CTC has been hijacked by the professional charity managers and has lost it's soul.
How times have changed.
I can remember when the BCF (Now BC) were on the brink of collapse and the CTC were preparing to step in. Now it's looking as if the tables have been turned.
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If this goes ahead without some proper consultation, or a members' vote, then reluctantly I'll be cancelling my membership. The former CTC will have little to offer me other than insurance, a magazine, and local group rides. The touring information section has been a valuable resource but is in dire need of serious updating and feels neglected.
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If this goes ahead without some proper consultation, or a members' vote, then reluctantly I'll be cancelling my membership. The former CTC will have little to offer me other than insurance, a magazine, and local group rides. The touring information section has been a valuable resource but is in dire need of serious updating and feels neglected.
This is pretty much my position too. But I'll be hanging onto the 25 years' membership winged wheel badge that they sent to me, just for old times' sake.
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insurance, a magazine, and local group rides.
That on its own is a pretty good deal, surely? And the wealth of experience in the Club must surely bring some benefits.
Do you get the same deal with BC?
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insurance, a magazine, and local group rides.
That on its own is a pretty good deal, surely? And the wealth of experience in the Club must surely bring some benefits.
Do you get the same deal with BC?
I'm not planning on joining BC. I'm insured on Audaxes anyway through AUK. I rarely join local CTC rides these days, though have in the past. The magazine is okay, but won't be missed too much. Which only leaves everyday cycling insurance (3rd party). Is it worth the annual membership fee? When was the last time I actually hit anyone with my bike that wasn't during an audax?* I don't recall exactly, but it was many years ago, before I was a CTC member, and I had no insurance.
* - Not that I make a habit of colliding with people. I did hit a silly dog which ran out in front of me at the end of a descent a few years ago, while riding a DIY audax.
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As a club rider in the 70s/early 80s I was a member of the BCF. In the early 80s when I left club cycling I joined the CTC. Now as a club secretary I have 'ride' membership of SC/BC (which I took out because I'm secretary of a SC affiliated club and it's a requirement).
BC offer a good range of benefits and different membership options that give a range of benefits to suit your needs. They also have a good website with a lot of club/member 'tools'
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/membership
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/
Although I have similar insurance/legal aid benefits from both organisations, I maintained CTC membership because I identified with the 'tourist' part of the title. This is no longer the case so I've cancelled my membership direct debit and my membership ends in July.
As a member of Scottish Cycling, I don't feel I want to be a member of Cycling UK now that 'tourist' is dropped from the organisation name (even if it is the same organisation). I get insurance through SC, as a club member have access to regular group rides, I can pick up all the info I need and read touring articles/blogs on the web so wont miss the magazine. The rebranding made me see sense that I don't need to pay twice for what is effectively the same thing.
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IIRC...........CTC doesn't stand for Cyclists Touring Club
it stands for Cycle Touring and Campaigning. The latter , about which, I care not.
Someone ie Rogbul, put a link up to a new contender in this Club field. Called TCC (Touring Cyclists Club) and I believe its aim is to be what the CTC should have been, without all the politics and campaigning malarky. Roads is Roads is Roads! take it or leave it.
as for the new image/logo. El crappo, reminds me of a baby formula.
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IIRC...........CTC doesn't stand for Cyclists Touring Club
it stands for Cycle Touring and Campaigning. The latter , about which, I care not.
Someone ie Rogbul, put a link up to a new contender in this Club field. Called TCC (Touring Cyclists Club) and I believe its aim is to be what the CTC should have been, without all the politics and campaigning malarky. Roads is Roads is Roads! take it or leave it.
as for the new image/logo. El crappo, reminds me of a baby formula.
Not what it claims on the website footer - quite clearly Cyclists' Touring Club
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1470/24522219613_b0e3097d8d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DmWMxT)ctc (https://flic.kr/p/DmWMxT) by ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/acf_windy/), on Flickr
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IIRC...........CTC doesn't stand for Cyclists Touring Club
it stands for Cycle Touring and Campaigning. The latter , about which, I care not.
Someone ie Rogbul, put a link up to a new contender in this Club field. Called TCC (Touring Cyclists Club) and I believe its aim is to be what the CTC should have been, without all the politics and campaigning malarky. Roads is Roads is Roads! take it or leave it.
as for the new image/logo. El crappo, reminds me of a baby formula.
Not what it claims on the website footer - quite clearly Cyclists' Touring Club
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1470/24522219613_b0e3097d8d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DmWMxT)ctc (https://flic.kr/p/DmWMxT) by ian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/acf_windy/), on Flickr
"Cycle Touring and Campaigning" was coined to chime with 'CTC'. I seem to remember it was around about the time that KM told me they weren't interested in touring cyclists, but were after commuters and utility cycle users.
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IIRC 'Cycle Toring and Campaigning' was the name given to the magazine for a wee while (confirmed by a google)
"Cycle Touring & Campaigning" was the magazine of the CTC from December 1988 to January 2003, preceded by "Cycletouring" and followed by "Cycle".
http://www.jeggo.org.uk/wsctchistarch/CTandCampaigning.html
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As a club rider in the 70s/early 80s I was a member of the BCF. In the early 80s when I left club cycling I joined the CTC. Now as a club secretary I have 'ride' membership of SC/BC (which I took out because I'm secretary of a SC affiliated club and it's a requirement).
BC offer a good range of benefits and different membership options that give a range of benefits to suit your needs. They also have a really good website with a lot of club/member 'tools'
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/membership
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/
Calling BC members "tools" seems a bit strong! But moving on:
It seems to be that unless you are regulary doing bunch races*, BC does nothing for riders' except insurance and a few discount codes (of similar nature to what you get from CTC. Or YHA. Or the AA. Or CSMA ... )
Tell me what is on their website of use to me.
(I get a weekly email telling me what the CTC does for me; it's usually in the form of campaigning. Some here disagree, but I find that beneficial to ALL cyclists; even BC/SC members ride on the roads and are subject to Highways Acts! )
CTC aint perfect, but the competition seems to be a looooong way behind ....
*or live in Scotland, which I hear has a different landscape.
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They also aren't expanded polystyrene evangelists, which is still an issue with BC even with them giving Boardman free reign to talk about the stuff. As a campaigning body however, I do wonder what the government's current attempts to stop charities campaigning for law changes using government grants, which the CTC seem to be chasing more and more, is going to do to that aspect.
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Perhaps they'll have to get some money from SKY instead!
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They also aren't expanded polystyrene evangelists, which is still an issue with BC even with them giving Boardman free reign to talk about the stuff.
How so? If you're racing under BC or UCI rules then helmet it is. If you are doing a BC Sky Ride then no helmet required unless you are legally classes as a child. Good example of how BC is not imposing helmets and why they support Boardman.
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From their website:
British Cycling’s view on commonly debated issues.
Helmets
We recommend people wear helmets but recognise their limitations at keeping people safe. That’s why we believe it should be down to personal choice and oppose any form of compulsion away from organised events. Cycling is safe and if we applied the same philosophy we’d all be encouraged to wear helmets when in the bathroom, driving a car or walking down the street. What would make cycling much safer is if we implement the policies in #ChooseCycling such as redesigning roads and junctions with cycling in mind. This is what countries like Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands do and they have a much better safety record than us despite hardly anyone wearing helmets.
Read more at https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/campaigning/article/20150113-campaigning-General-policies-0#uuXcAiHV7TuXhMDx.99
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I could live with that BC statement if in the second sentence it said '...compulsion away from sporting events.'
To say "organised events" is just too broad - and could include audaxes, or an organised group of pals going to the pub.
Until BC get this sorted I cannot join them, which is a pity as CTC / CUK are heading nowhere fast. (But my 5year CTC membership has a couple of years to run anyway)
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Compare and contrast with the CTC's position, which dosen't, unlike the BC one recommend hemet wearing, nor insist on them for their events.
http://www.ctc.org.uk/campaign/cycle-helmets-evidence
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I'll probably hang on with the CTC for now, with the insurance pretty much the only reason. In the past I've had family membership, but only have individual again now (sadly). (I was a member of BCF for my licence way back in the day)
When its next due, I'll check out the BC, but seems a bit race/sport oriented for me now. When I originally used the the touring archives, they were really useful, but as others noted, theyre outdated, and nothing you cant really find on-line now.
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Oh another helmet debate. Goodee! ::-)
The CTC isn't and can't be perfect. It's done some good work over the years, and may continue to do so.
What I can't quite understand is the need to waste time and money hiring in marketing consultants for a "rebrand". How will this help CTC/Cycling UK achieve its objectives?
The whole thing smacks of a "new broom" CEO who wants to turn CTC (now a charity) into something similar to where he came from prior to getting the job, i.e.. a campaign charity that no-one's ever heard of, with well meaning intentions, and a massively patronising, holier-than-thou communication strategy.
What on earth that has to do with anyone being a "member" (of what, exactly?) is beyond my ken.
This appears to be the final triumph of the "professional" charity managers over the undead corpse of the old CTC.
On reflection, it's probably time I cancelled my direct debit.
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Well said Crowriver - charities are big businesses pure & simple.
My epiphany came when I went to the HQ of a big national charity for a job interview- bigger & more ruthless than most private companies I'd encountered.
The new CE is determined, it seems, to run such a charityco regardless of the wishes or needs of the members, or the heritage.
The most encouraging suggestion I've seen to date is that of a hived off touring club under the umbrella of çuk with the campaigns & fundraising part kept at arms length.
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The CEO is referred to as being a change agent with a history in charity orgs and presumably was appointed on the strength of this. A good CEO will be able to ensure that his/her vision and strategy are adopted by the board and be quite assertive in doing so. (Not that I agree with the direction that is being taken and have not renewed my sub).
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As has been said above (I think) rebranding mostly looks silly at the time but is often accepted as time goes on, if one still gets what is sought from the relationship (be it chocolate that tastes the same as before, a decent employer etc). To those that ask "how much" I'd add that done on the cheap is even sillier (I have memories of an old employer covering signs with the old name with stickers, which soon looked tatty). Unlike many re-brandings, which arise from mergers or a desire to move away from an old fashioned image, this feels like it reflects a desire to change direction. That the name is so easily confused with so many other organisations doesn't help. So the questions, to me are a) does it really reflect that (seems likely given recent history) and b) will they still meet my needs and/or do I want to change direction with them?
I'm not cancelling my direct debit today, but I'm starting to wonder whether my money would be better sent in e.g. Sustrans' direction (I'm reluctant to increase my charity / club spend.) BC aren't for me. Thinking aloud...
A touring connection was what attracted me to them. Their side of the relationship may be evolving, but I still want that. These days, I can probably get it here and things like Bicycle Traveller.
I don't think campaigning is a bad thing, but if that's all (or mostly what) they are going to be about I want to be sure that they best represent me. I've not had time to really find out about that yet.
Although I like the idea, I've not engaged with the local group rides. I keep meaning to see more of you lot and/or go on some Audaxes again and is more likely.
The insurance I like, but I daresay can be found elsewhere.
Much as they are the butt of jokes, I've had some really nice rides on Sustrans paths.
And that "logo" ... well, it isn't really.
a symbol or other small design adopted by an organization to identify its products, uniform, vehicles, etc.
This is two sentences, doesn't work well in small, and to my eyes contains no graphic / symbolic element. Sigh.
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Some quotes from the David Cox email I mentioned earlier (note the references to Winged Wheels) ...
What does this mean for Member Groups?
CTC Member Groups will not need to change their names, their jerseys or other aspects of their branding unless they want to. Most Member Groups have a clear identity and touring orientation that is well recognised by local club cyclists and they will be free to maintain that identity. It will continue to be possible to obtain classic kit and winged wheel badges – and we plan to develop further items drawing on the charity’s rich heritage.
What does this mean for the winged wheel?
There will be many charities who will be jealous of our rich history and such iconic assets like our winged wheel, and rightly so. We will continue to promote our heritage as a very important part of our wider brand, which will include continuing to use the winged wheel.
Is it actually possible to obtain winged wheel badges, other than on ebay? I've wanted one ever since I lost the one I got when I joined CTC the first time!
I"be got a few stashed away, if anyone is interested.
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David Cox, the CTC chair, is a liar and a bully.
I hate to say it but 'I told you so'. Another couple of years and there won't be a membership any more - they'll become 'subscribers' and the board will be wholly appointed, rather than elected. Mark my words...
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Perhaps because of my sales and marketing background I understand why the CTC rebranded. Whether they've got it right is a different matter. They clearly want to build their membership and reach, again I understand why. I can't comment on whether the strategy they are pursuing will be successful, I simply don't know enough to make a judgment.
I shall remain a CTC member as I think the insurance important, Witham Cycling's insurance is also with the CTC and the magazine is OK as well.
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Interesting method of increasing your membership by upsetting your current members? ???
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Is it about members, though, or is it about bidding for funding and consultancy ...you know, like Sustrans have turned into?
It's pretty clear that's the way they're going, and it probably makes sense from a campaigning perspective. TBH, I don't really have a problem with that at a personal level - but I don't have anything invested in the CTC as a membership organisation (other than as an insurance formality for groups I sometimes ride with).
The membership were thoroughly upset several years ago when they turned into a charity. Re-branding was inevitable, and doesn't really change anything.
But I still think the font is cack.
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Indeed. Someone definitely shot his load when he chose that font.
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Is it about members, though, or is it about bidding for funding and consultancy ...you know, like Sustrans have turned into?
That's my impression.
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Is it about members, though, or is it about bidding for funding and consultancy ...you know, like Sustrans have turned into?
That's my impression.
The accounts (2014 http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/2015ctcaccounts_0.pdf (http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/2015ctcaccounts_0.pdf)) tell us that:
Membership is the biggest income line at £1.8 million. If you subtract the "membership services" gives c. £362k. This is more than the annual profit.
Maybe they think they can compensate:
attract more / higher value new members than those they loose;
and/or use the rebranding to grow the campaigning side by more than they shrink the membership side.
After all, this thread might not be representative and hasn't thrown up a clear place to defect to.
It is quite possible that the membership of the CTC as-is would be hard to grow. And growth matters if you're being exec of this sort of organisation.
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For me, the CTC is effectively a local club: a bunch of people I know, ride with at weekends and on summer Wednesday evenings and in the winter see at the occasional 'club night'. So as long as those people are there and I enjoy riding with them, I'll stay with the CTC.
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I guess that the CTC has to choose what it wants to do:
- it could either serve the needs of an extremely small group of keen touring cyclists,
- it could go for the slightly larger group of born-again cyclists.....nice bike, nice bit of kit at least partly composed of lycra, doing anything from a two hour ride with friends to a longer sportif/audax
- or if could try to attract the massive group who find all sorts of barriers between them and cycling, but who, if we could get to them, would have one almighty voice.
As it was it was doing OK with the first group, sort of doing OKish but a bit shaky with the second, and totally failing with the third. To make cycling a normal day-to-day activity in this country it's the third group you have to get. Thus I fully understand why it has decided on a rebranding exercise. This does not mean that I necessarily think that the new brand is good....I'm at least waiting until April to see the whole shooting match.
Of course, reaching out to the third group takes it away from a traditional touring club...and I fully understand why people who partake in traditional touring and MG riding don't like this. Leads us onto the question - who should then be the UK's main cycle campaigning and promotion group: CTC, Sustrans or BC?
AS an aside....often hear these comment about how the charity conversion will destroy the CTC , or the rebrand will destroy the CTC. My guess is that if anything sees it off it will be the advent of the Affiliated Group. They might allow the CTC to big up their numbers but few of the affiliates give the CTC the same kind of support that the MGs do and they generate even less membership money for the CTC, but most importantly, they are luring MGs away.
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I guess that the CTC has to choose what it wants to do:
- it could either serve the needs of an extremely small group of keen touring cyclists,
- it could go for the slightly larger group of born-again cyclists.....nice bike, nice bit of kit at least partly composed of lycra, doing anything from a two hour ride with friends to a longer sportif/audax
- or if could try to attract the massive group who find all sorts of barriers between them and cycling, but who, if we could get to them, would have one almighty voice.
As it was it was doing OK with the first group, sort of doing OKish but a bit shaky with the second, and totally failing with the third. To make cycling a normal day-to-day activity in this country it's the third group you have to get. Thus I fully understand why it has decided on a rebranding exercise. This does not mean that I necessarily think that the new brand is good....I'm at least waiting until April to see the whole shooting match.
Of course, reaching out to the third group takes it away from a traditional touring club...and I fully understand why people who partake in traditional touring and MG riding don't like this. Leads us onto the question - who should then be the UK's main cycle campaigning and promotion group: CTC, Sustrans or BC?
AS an aside....often hear these comment about how the charity conversion will destroy the CTC , or the rebrand will destroy the CTC. My guess is that if anything sees it off it will be the advent of the Affiliated Group. They might allow the CTC to big up their numbers but few of the affiliates give the CTC the same kind of support that the MGs do and they generate even less membership money for the CTC, but most importantly, they are luring MGs away.
Or maybe they should all get together to collaboratively create a specific campaigning and promotion group with its own independent identity, leaving each of them to focus on their individual strengths and interests? The trouble with that is each of CTC, BC and Sustrans inevitable includes an element of campaigning and promotion in their natural interests, even if it's only for the right to hold racing on public roads.
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Is it actually possible to obtain winged wheel badges, other than on ebay? I've wanted one ever since I lost the one I got when I joined CTC the first time!
I"be got a few stashed away, if anyone is interested.
Ooh, I might be - metal or cloth?
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I'm torn on the whole thing, but probably close to Kim's position - I'm a member mainly for the insurance, and I sipprt the wider campaigning work that the CTC do - for all Boardman's excellent advocacy, I think they are the most effective cycling campaigning organisation. Turning into a grant-chasing organisation would seem to be risky to me mind, given the current government's lack of financial support for active transport.
OTOH, despite the protestations they are clearly moving away from touring. Real Life (TM) prevents me from being a touring cyclist at present, but I'd like to be one in future, and it's sad to think that link with the past is being lost.
On the third hand, actual touring info is probably better found on here on on the CTC forums rather than through the CTC website.
Finally, the new branding looks a bit pants (and, as I saw pointed out on twitter, the cyclists' champion strapline may be off-putting for the general public they're going to want to reach), but that need not be set in stone.
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BC does not organise club rides but it does coordinate clubs and have individual membership. The actions of the central organisations (including the welsh and scottish unions) are different and prioritise different things to the local clubs.
CTC is finally waking up to the fact that it has been somewhat out of kilter with the way the world is moving. Some things will stay exactly the same, your local club/CTC group, some of the formerly core activities (though many of those have been superseded by technology) but in order to represent its membership more broadly it needs a name that actually represents what it is trying to do. I am a member for the campaigning as without that we risk losing much of what it is that makes cycling feasible in the legislative space. Much of that is not of interest to local clubs until it is too late. Much of it is outwith the expertise of local clubs until it is too late.
The name is quite key. CTC is not going away, but the campaigning [1] brand will be Cycling UK, to which will be affiliated member groups. The rebrand (OK, I am not convinced about the graphics, but the name is an excellent choice) will aid in the representation to government and to the general public. Why should a commuter be interested in cycle touring, but they should be interested in cycling.
Dropping the Federation from BCF, and Union from SCU made an image difference. There are many who will dislike change, but do not see hwo they themselves and the situations in which they ride have also changed.
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Is it actually possible to obtain winged wheel badges, other than on ebay? I've wanted one ever since I lost the one I got when I joined CTC the first time!
I"be got a few stashed away, if anyone is interested.
Ooh, I might be - metal or cloth?
Metal. I might have a couple of the cloth as well.
EDIT: I've checked and I've got four metal winged wheel lapel badges and a large cloth badge - slope has first dibs on the cloth badge. Anyone who wants a lapel badge PM me your address.
EDIT 2: Now just 2 metal badges left. To those who have PMed me, I'll post things out later this week.
EDIT 3: Only 1 left now...
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Paul Tuohy's attack on Philip Benstead is shameful and completely out of order for a member of staff.
Philip is very committed to cycling but somewhat misguided. He stood for re-election of the charity board but times have changed and he received the lowest polling ever in CTC's 138 history with 0.2% of the possible share of voters. But that's democracy. It's such a shame he pursues this vendetta against a charity working for cycling that he still promotes for his own self interest. He could do much more positively for cycling if he chose to. Meanwhile next week the Minister for cycling will announce £500,000 to help Cycling Uk get more hard to reach communities to engage with cycling to school, work for pleasure and good health. Just for clarity. The vote for our rebrand was 15-1, not 10 -5.
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And, lo and behold, Paul Touhy's comment has suddenly disappeared. Did someone point out how stupid, unprofessional and counterproductive it was?
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Is it actually possible to obtain winged wheel badges, other than on ebay? I've wanted one ever since I lost the one I got when I joined CTC the first time!
I"be got a few stashed away, if anyone is interested.
Ooh, I might be - metal or cloth?
Metal. I might have a couple of the cloth as well.
EDIT: I've checked and I've got four metal winged wheel lapel badges and a large cloth badge - slope has first dibs on the cloth badge. Anyone who wants a lapel badge PM me your address.
EDIT 2: Now just 2 metal badges left. To those who have PMed me, I'll post things out later this week.
EDIT 3: Only 1 left now...
Can I call dibs? I tried PMing earlier, but it seems to have been eaten by gremlins - will try again!
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Is it actually possible to obtain winged wheel badges, other than on ebay? I've wanted one ever since I lost the one I got when I joined CTC the first time!
I"be got a few stashed away, if anyone is interested.
Ooh, I might be - metal or cloth?
Metal. I might have a couple of the cloth as well.
EDIT: I've checked and I've got four metal winged wheel lapel badges and a large cloth badge - slope has first dibs on the cloth badge. Anyone who wants a lapel badge PM me your address.
EDIT 2: Now just 2 metal badges left. To those who have PMed me, I'll post things out later this week.
EDIT 3: Only 1 left now...
Can I call dibs? I tried PMing earlier, but it seems to have been eaten by gremlins - will try again!
You have been dibbed already - don't panic!
Now all gone.
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Paul Tuohy's attack on Philip Benstead is shameful and completely out of order for a member of staff.
Philip is very committed to cycling but somewhat misguided. He stood for re-election of the charity board but times have changed and he received the lowest polling ever in CTC's 138 history with 0.2% of the possible share of voters. But that's democracy. It's such a shame he pursues this vendetta against a charity working for cycling that he still promotes for his own self interest. He could do much more positively for cycling if he chose to. Meanwhile next week the Minister for cycling will announce £500,000 to help Cycling Uk get more hard to reach communities to engage with cycling to school, work for pleasure and good health. Just for clarity. The vote for our rebrand was 15-1, not 10 -5.
Thanks for quoting this here. I may not stick with CTC as I previously mentioned based on this.
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Did I miss CTC becoming a charity? When was a member it was a club - or so I thought. I was on the cusp of rejoining until I read this thread. It certainly looks like a careerist CEO has taken the helm and once he's done his time and got turnover growth, a rebranding and a turnaround story on his CV he'll be off to a bigger job elsewhere.
Taking government grants is the endgame of pretence of being member led, for members.
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CTC became a charity a few years ago, much to the chagrin of some sections of the membership.
Regulator resigned as a Councillor for a number of reasons, while I sat passively on Council from 2009-11.
Kevin Mayne was CEO at the time.
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Paul Tuohy's attack on Philip Benstead is shameful and completely out of order for a member of staff.
Philip is very committed to cycling but somewhat misguided. He stood for re-election of the charity board but times have changed and he received the lowest polling ever in CTC's 138 history with 0.2% of the possible share of voters. But that's democracy. It's such a shame he pursues this vendetta against a charity working for cycling that he still promotes for his own self interest. He could do much more positively for cycling if he chose to. Meanwhile next week the Minister for cycling will announce £500,000 to help Cycling Uk get more hard to reach communities to engage with cycling to school, work for pleasure and good health. Just for clarity. The vote for our rebrand was 15-1, not 10 -5.
Thanks for quoting this here. I may not stick with CTC as I previously mentioned based on this.
It seems perfectly reasonable. Agree or not, the organisation has pinned up its aims. Continually sniping seems pointless. If you want a cycling organisation for beardy middle age blokes, go ahead and form your own.
Please ffs sort out that logo kerning though.
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insurance, a magazine, and local group rides.
That on its own is a pretty good deal, surely? And the wealth of experience in the Club must surely bring some benefits.
Do you get the same deal with BC?
I'm not planning on joining BC. I'm insured on Audaxes anyway through AUK. I rarely join local CTC rides these days, though have in the past. The magazine is okay, but won't be missed too much. Which only leaves everyday cycling insurance (3rd party). Is it worth the annual membership fee? When was the last time I actually hit anyone with my bike that wasn't during an audax?* I don't recall exactly, but it was many years ago, before I was a CTC member, and I had no insurance.
* - Not that I make a habit of colliding with people. I did hit a silly dog which ran out in front of me at the end of a descent a few years ago, while riding a DIY audax.
I was knocked off my bike by a moton 20 years ago. Bastard knew he'd done it but drove off. No witnesses, no CCTV footage. CTC lawyer got me compensation from a fund I didn't know existed, & did it pretty painlessly. No cost to me.
So far, I'm in profit from my 25 or so years of CTC membership. It would be ungrateful to quit now. Oh yeah, & I ride a lot with the local CTC group, including leading rides, & do a lot of socialising with its members.
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It may be worth, at this point, gently reminding disaffected CTC members that there is another national club made up of 'Member Group s', or sections, and accommodates all sorts of cycling.
It's the Clarion :)
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Meanwhile next week the Minister for cycling will announce £500,000 to help Cycling Uk get more hard to reach communities to engage with cycling to school, work for pleasure and good health. Just for clarity. The vote for our rebrand was 15-1, not 10 -5.
In the new era , this is how success will be measured.
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It may be worth, at this point, gently reminding disaffected CTC members that there is another national club made up of 'Member Group s', or sections, and accommodates all sorts of cycling.
It's the Clarion :)
I have gently suggested over on Faceplant, a couple of times, that The Clarion might possibly be a suitable home for disaffected members who want member groups and a sense of heritage.
(Not that I have any personal connection whatsoever)
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If I don't want to help careerist CEOs with their CVs or to support an organisation dancing to the tune dictated by government bungs, where do I get third party cycle insurance?
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... Oh yeah, & I ride a lot with the local CTC group, including leading rides, & do a lot of socialising with its members.
Bledlow has it and his point whizzes right over all the arguments about branding, charity status, CEOs on a world domination fest (allegedly) etc. When you're out riding your bike with your mates all this nonsense matters not a jot.
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If I don't want to help careerist CEOs with their CVs or to support an organisation dancing to the tune dictated by government bungs, where do I get third party cycle insurance?
You may well already have it with your household insurance (http://beyondthekerb.org.uk/2015/06/03/them-and-theirs/) (see section 'Cycling By Numbers', although the whole article is well worth a read if you haven't already).
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... Oh yeah, & I ride a lot with the local CTC group, including leading rides, & do a lot of socialising with its members.
Bledlow has it and his point whizzes right over all the arguments about branding, charity status, CEOs on a world domination fest (allegedly) etc. When you're out riding your bike with your mates all this nonsense matters not a jot.
That's my feeling entirely. But I don't need to join the CTC to ride with mates.
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... Oh yeah, & I ride a lot with the local CTC group, including leading rides, & do a lot of socialising with its members.
Bledlow has it and his point whizzes right over all the arguments about branding, charity status, CEOs on a world domination fest (allegedly) etc. When you're out riding your bike with your mates all this nonsense matters not a jot.
That's my feeling entirely. But I don't need to join the CTC to ride with mates.
Indeed not.
I regard yacf as my club and it's members are who I ride with 99% of the time. If asked I describe yacf to civilians as an "internet based cycling club". This then allows me to launch into my routine about how I meet men on the internet and sometimes spend the night with them. But I fear we're getting off the topic ;D Sorry.
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... Oh yeah, & I ride a lot with the local CTC group, including leading rides, & do a lot of socialising with its members.
Bledlow has it and his point whizzes right over all the arguments about branding, charity status, CEOs on a world domination fest (allegedly) etc. When you're out riding your bike with your mates all this nonsense matters not a jot.
This times infinity.
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If I don't want to help careerist CEOs with their CVs or to support an organisation dancing to the tune dictated by government bungs, where do I get third party cycle insurance?
Ask an insurance broker like Butterworth Spengler (http://www.specialistschemes.butterworthspengler.co.uk/index.asp?current_id=36) (other brokers are available). They even have a product specifically for cyclists who aren't members of any organisation.
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If I don't want to help careerist CEOs with their CVs or to support an organisation dancing to the tune dictated by government bungs, where do I get third party cycle insurance?
LCC is an option.
Until recently I had membership / insurance (the only reason I joined) from both.
I stopped the LCC membership as in why pay twice?
I stayed with CTC as I am registered with them as a ride leader.
Following Tuohy's few choice words, the thought of paying a subscription to CTC is starting to stick in the throat a bit.
I can forego the ride leading bit.
Next August may well see me re-joining LCC.
ETA - kind of X-posted with Reg. Butterworth and Spengler broker insurance for both LCC and CTC.
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I was knocked off my bike by a moton 20 years ago. Bastard knew he'd done it but drove off. No witnesses, no CCTV footage. CTC lawyer got me compensation from a fund I didn't know existed, & did it pretty painlessly. No cost to me.
So far, I'm in profit from my 25 or so years of CTC membership. It would be ungrateful to quit now. Oh yeah, & I ride a lot with the local CTC group, including leading rides, & do a lot of socialising with its members.
Likewise, I was hit by a bus in the 90s and made a successful claim against West Midlands Public Transport (with the help of the CTC). I've also had car insurance and house insurance claims over the years but haven't felt a loyalty to those companies.
Unlike Bledlow I don't have a local CTC group and the group I ride with is a Scottish Cycling affiliated club. I get the same 'insurance/legal aid' deal from my SC Ride membership and it's £8 cheaper/year. So (after 30+ years of membership) it's a sad wave goodbye CTC from me.
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I was knocked off my bike by a moton 20 years ago. Bastard knew he'd done it but drove off. No witnesses, no CCTV footage. CTC lawyer got me compensation from a fund I didn't know existed, & did it pretty painlessly. No cost to me.
So far, I'm in profit from my 25 or so years of CTC membership. It would be ungrateful to quit now. Oh yeah, & I ride a lot with the local CTC group, including leading rides, & do a lot of socialising with its members.
Likewise, I was hit by a bus in the 90s and made a successful claim against West Midlands Public Transport (with the help of the CTC). I've also had car insurance and house insurance claims over the years but haven't felt a loyalty to those companies.
Unlike Bledlow I don't have a local CTC group and the group I ride with is a Scottish Cycling affiliated club. I get the same 'insurance/legal aid' deal from my SC Ride membership and it's £8 cheaper/year. So (after 30+ years of membership) it's a sad wave goodbye CTC from me.
CTC has priced itself out of the market... you can get the insurance from BC or LCC (or some of the other local cycling campaigns) for cheaper.
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Do you need to be a member of LCC in order to obtain 3rd party insurance via them?
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Do you need to be a member of LCC in order to obtain 3rd party insurance via them?
It's part of the membership - same as CTC. LCC standard adult membership is £3 cheaper than CTC. Household or family membership is cheaper as well, as is concessionary membership.
Third party insurance is also included as part of British Cycling's membership. Their 'Ride' adult membership is £8 cheaper than CTC.
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My understanding of the link below is that you don't need to be a member to buy their third party insurance.
http://lcc.org.uk/pages/third-party-liability-insurance
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My understanding of the link below is that you don't need to be a member to buy their third party insurance.
http://lcc.org.uk/pages/third-party-liability-insurance
That I didn't know - and that's a damn good price. :thumbsup:
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Just in process of giving it a go.
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My understanding is that if you are a member of AUK, you are covered for third party liability while riding an audax event (calendar or DIY). Otherwise if it's leisure cycling, commuting, touring etc. you should be covered by your home contents insurance up to a certain amount. I've just checked mine and it appears I'm covered. The only benefit of the CTC cover for me was a higher damages claims limit for liability.
I feel bad about the local CTC group, but I to be honest I haven't ridden with them for over two years, thus I really can't justify this membership subscription any more.
It certainly looks like a careerist CEO has taken the helm and once he's done his time and got turnover growth, a rebranding and a turnaround story on his CV he'll be off to a bigger job elsewhere.
Looks that way, doesn't it?
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That LCC insurance option is cheap, but also doesn't appear to include any legal assistance if you are hurt by someone else, just third party defence in case you hurt someone else.
How much the CTC (or BC) will help in legal assistance beyond the normal no-win no-fee you can get elsewhere I do not know.
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You'll probably find that your home insurance will pay legal costs associated with making any personal injury claims. It will either be included, or you'll have option of including legal expenses next time you renew your cover. In any case, as you point out, most lawyers these days offer no win no fee, and there are several firms specialising in cycling cases: for those north of the border, you could choose Cycle Law Scotland, for example. http://www.cyclelawscotland.co.uk (http://www.cyclelawscotland.co.uk)
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That LCC insurance option is cheap, but also doesn't appear to include any legal assistance if you are hurt by someone else, just third party defence in case you hurt someone else.
How much the CTC (or BC) will help in legal assistance beyond the normal no-win no-fee you can get elsewhere I do not know.
The CTC (and BC) assistance is purely to put you in contact with a no win - no fee lawyer... OK, they're experts in the field rather than some ambulance chasing High Street lawyer or claims management company - but there is no 'legal assistance' that's provided by CTC or BC beyond pointing you in the direction of their pet lawyers.
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For £9.50 gives up to £5m third party cover home and abroad i.e. anywhere in the world, apart from States and Canada. Can't complain for a tenner.
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That LCC insurance option is cheap, but also doesn't appear to include any legal assistance if you are hurt by someone else, just third party defence in case you hurt someone else.
How much the CTC (or BC) will help in legal assistance beyond the normal no-win no-fee you can get elsewhere I do not know.
The CTC (and BC) assistance is purely to put you in contact with a no win - no fee lawyer... OK, they're experts in the field rather than some ambulance chasing High Street lawyer or claims management company - but there is no 'legal assistance' that's provided by CTC or BC beyond pointing you in the direction of their pet lawyers.
I went down this path in 2012, using Slater Gordon despite not being a member of CTC. They asked if I was a CTC member and said essentially that they could only continue as a non-member if they assessed the chance of success as above 50%. If I was a member then there was a pre-existing insurance to cover the legal costs which may or would allow they to pursue at a lower chance of success. This was only verbal, and they gave the impression that the difference was marginal but nonetheless existed. I understand the rules have changed since though.
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That LCC insurance option is cheap, but also doesn't appear to include any legal assistance if you are hurt by someone else, just third party defence in case you hurt someone else.
How much the CTC (or BC) will help in legal assistance beyond the normal no-win no-fee you can get elsewhere I do not know.
The CTC (and BC) assistance is purely to put you in contact with a no win - no fee lawyer... OK, they're experts in the field rather than some ambulance chasing High Street lawyer or claims management company - but there is no 'legal assistance' that's provided by CTC or BC beyond pointing you in the direction of their pet lawyers.
I went down this path in 2012, using Slater Gordon despite not being a member of CTC. They asked if I was a CTC member and said essentially that they could only continue as a non-member if they assessed the chance of success as above 50%. If I was a member then there was a pre-existing insurance to cover the legal costs which may or would allow they to pursue at a lower chance of success. This was only verbal, and they gave the impression that the difference was marginal but nonetheless existed. I understand the rules have changed since though.
No insurance is going to pay legal fees where the prospects of success are less than 50%...
There is no 'legal costs' insurance provided by CTC or BC to their members for PI/damages. There is legal expenses cover provided to Member Groups and those acting in 'official capacities' for claims made against them.
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In for a tenner as Canardly says.
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That tenner deal looks just the ticket (I don't have home contents insurance). All I want to insure against is the very slim but ruinous possibility that I negligently run over and maim someone who then expects me (rightly) to make good the damage they've suffered.
I'm happy to use the no-win-no-fee system (or my own pocket) to fund a claim against someone who does damage to me. That's what I did last time - my CTC membership had lapsed and they pointed me to (IIRC) Russell, Jones, and Walker.
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I've just received a phone call from someone at CTC, to tell me that I'll be getting a letter shortly about exciting new developments. Are they ringing round the entire membership (surely not), or just a sample?
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I've just received a phone call from someone at CTC, to tell me that I'll be getting a letter shortly about exciting new developments.
WTF? How pointlessly rude.
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I've just received a phone call from someone at CTC, to tell me that I'll be getting a letter shortly about exciting new developments. Are they ringing round the entire membership (surely not), or just a sample?
National Office is getting desperate. It knows that if the petition for a whole poll of the club is successful then they run the real risk of losing the vote (that said, I bet they won't let ERS run the poll).
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I was knocked off my bike by a moton 20 years ago. Bastard knew he'd done it but drove off. No witnesses, no CCTV footage. CTC lawyer got me compensation from a fund I didn't know existed, & did it pretty painlessly. No cost to me.
So far, I'm in profit from my 25 or so years of CTC membership. It would be ungrateful to quit now. Oh yeah, & I ride a lot with the local CTC group, including leading rides, & do a lot of socialising with its members.
:thumbsup:
CTC has priced itself out of the market...
If I thought cycling was all about free-market economics, I might agree. Its clear that cycling (and that includes the CTC) is about a lot more than money.
(I guess Rupert Murdoch sees it differently ... should I lump Regulator in with Murdoch??? )
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News Flash
Latest new on the CTC Rebranding debate go to
https://www.facebook.com/groups/911322558887222/
http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewforum.php?f=48
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What's the news flash? All I see is a Facebook login page and a link to a section of the CTC forum, not a specific article.
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The good news is that more than twice as many people as needed have signed up demanding a poll of the whole club. Whilst I'm sure that the Chair and Chief Executive will do everything they can to trim the numbers, a poll of the whole club is a cert.
The question now is whether they'll do this honorably and get the poll independently supervised.... or, if past history is anything to go by, try and bribe the membership.
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Cycling UK is such a bland name. How on earth anyone on the Clapham omnibus is meant to distinguish between British Cycling and Cycling UK heaven only knows.
This is all a bit piss poor really.
I like that CTC do the campaigning thing, but it is a completely different activity set to that of a members club, and I think it would have been for the best if the campaigning piece had been hived off a while ago. Then the members bit could have carried on unencumbered with all the nonsense of charityising (charitisation ??)
I think they're walking a fine line now between surviving and becoming increasingly irrelevant. They do have a habit of pissing off chunks of their existing membership. What's the trend in membership numbers for the last few years ?
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I mostly agree, Hatler. I do think it makes sense to have some link between campaigning and club activity sides, but not at the cost of the members' club.
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Agreed. I would have been perfectly happy with a £20 club membership fee and a £15 fee for the campaigning/charity bit.
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The good news is that more than twice as many people as needed have signed up demanding a poll of the whole club. Whilst I'm sure that the Chair and Chief Executive will do everything they can to trim the numbers, a poll of the whole club is a cert.
The question now is whether they'll do this honorably and get the poll independently supervised.... or, if past history is anything to go by, try and bribe the membership.
Yes. Good news indeed. I don't hold out any hope of the vote being anything other than what management want though. Eyes peeled for the marketing drive in the next mag.
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I was knocked off my bike by a moton 20 years ago. Bastard knew he'd done it but drove off. No witnesses, no CCTV footage. CTC lawyer got me compensation from a fund I didn't know existed, & did it pretty painlessly. No cost to me.
So far, I'm in profit from my 25 or so years of CTC membership. It would be ungrateful to quit now. Oh yeah, & I ride a lot with the local CTC group, including leading rides, & do a lot of socialising with its members.
Likewise, I was hit by a bus in the 90s and made a successful claim against West Midlands Public Transport (with the help of the CTC). I've also had car insurance and house insurance claims over the years but haven't felt a loyalty to those companies.
Unlike Bledlow I don't have a local CTC group and the group I ride with is a Scottish Cycling affiliated club. I get the same 'insurance/legal aid' deal from my SC Ride membership and it's £8 cheaper/year. So (after 30+ years of membership) it's a sad wave goodbye CTC from me.
CTC has priced itself out of the market... you can get the insurance from BC or LCC (or some of the other local cycling campaigns) for cheaper.
From the summary, the LCC policy (£9.50 if separate from membership) wouldn't have got me a penny in compensation, or the legal help to claim it - & membership is a whole £2.50 a year less than Mrs B & I pay for CTC membership. The BC policy would, but the insurance (at a price I can't find out how to see without being a member) is on top of membership, so we'd end up paying more, not less.
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British Cycling Silver membership includes legal support (https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/legalsupport) to get compensation in the
event of you being injured by the fault of a third party. Silver membership £35 per year.
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https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/governance-federated-charities-shivaji-shiva?trk=prof-post
IMHO The writing on the wall for CTC local groups, make them become affiliate groups so CTC members lose control and the Council will become self-appointed Oligarchy
By Shivaji Shivapadasundaram
CTC Honorary Consulting Solicitor
Governance in Federated Charities
Mar 3, 2016
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Some of the highest profile social care charities in the UK - including Mind, Carers Trust and YMCA - have federated structures, where a network of independent local charities are overseen by a national charity.
Some have evolved organically from grass roots support groups and continue to be driven by the passion of local volunteers loosely coordinated by a national body with a particular focus on political influencing. Others have taken a more planned approach, delivering services locally through a tightly controlled national structure.
At their best, federated charities have the scale and influence to take a place on the national stage, while remaining responsive to local needs. Oft-cited challenges, include:
• the difficulty in securing quick change in a complex organisation
• friction over geographic ‘areas of benefit’;
• the need to manage service quality across a range of member charities that differ widely in size and nature;
• the need to communicate the value of the federal structure – and be transparent with funders about associated costs;
• the need for central bodies to demonstrate they give their members value for money;
In the current financial environment, many of these challenges are brought into relief. As social care charities of all sorts seek to increase their income, diversify income streams and reduce costs, they face important questions, including:
• How to work together to bid for and win contracts to deliver public services?
• How can the central office add most value? What role should it play in helping local members reduce costs?
• How can the central charity help member charities to be more effective, while encouraging innovation?
• How can the members and the central body best co-operate to develop and market new branded services?
• What are the implications for governance of a federated structure – how can the members of a federation and its national body work together to achieve change?
We will be exploring these issues above at a workshop on 10 May 2016 from 10:00 - 14:00 at Anthony Collins Solicitors LLP - Get Directions.
This practical workshop provides an opportunity to consider recent legal developments in the context of federated charities and share knowledge and ideas with people from other federated charities.
To develop the agenda I have consulted people from a number of national federations - and there is still time to refine it. If you have thoughts on the issues that are most important to federated charities, please get in touch - or comment below.
Book here.
For more information
Contact Shivaji Shiva.
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Ride membership for non racers offers insurance and legal aid. Fortunately I haven't needed it yet. My CTC claim was in 1990. If I was riding with local groups, as you do, I would have remained with the CTC.
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The good news is that more than twice as many people as needed have signed up demanding a poll of the whole club. Whilst I'm sure that the Chair and Chief Executive will do everything they can to trim the numbers, a poll of the whole club is a cert.
The question now is whether they'll do this honorably and get the poll independently supervised.... or, if past history is anything to go by, try and bribe the membership.
Whilst I continue not to give too many fucks this saga is becoming interesting and I'm intrigued to know how it will end.
I'm not informed enough to comment on the charity debate but the re-brand debate is holding my attention. As I said previously "The Cyclists' Touring Club" and "CTC" don't really fit what Der Management appear to be trying to achieve. So if the membership poll overturns the re-brand decision what's to be done?
Re-branding isn't always a bad idea but after giving the matter some thought I think "Cycling UK" is a bit meh. But I feel for Der Management, they want to come across as representing UK cyclists but British Cycling have already nicked the best name for a British national cycling organisation. If the new name sticks the public is going wonder what is the difference between British Cycling and Cycling UK. Der Management also want a name that promotes the campaigning work of the organisation and although Sustrans is also a bit of a rubbish name it does make sense if people can be bothered to find out it is a distillation of "sustainable transport".
The other problem is that Der Management want the organisation to be all things to all (wo)men. Mercifully they don't need to worry about sporting cyclists as their natural home is British Cycling. But the rest of British cyclists are such a mixed bunch from Mrs Miggins riding her bike to the shops to a hard bitten audaxer at the other end of a spectrum that includes mountain bikers and tourers to name just a few. And clever gits keep inventing new types of cycling all the time, bikepacking and gravel racing spring to mind. How the hell do you represent all these interests? And don't forget UK cyclists are proven to be a moody, argumentative bunch when provoked!
There doesn't appear to be an ideal solution but I would say that going back to the "Cyclists' Touring Club" and the winged wheel is the way forward or the least worst option. Folks like heritage brands so the winged wheel, with it's nod to times gone by could strike a cord with the public. And by calling the organisation "The Cyclists' Touring Club" people will also have an idea what it's about, whereas CTC could stand for anything.
I also think the campaigning arm needs to be hived off. Perhaps the cycle campaigning arms of the Cyclists' Touring Club, British Cycling and Sustrans should join forces to form one organisation?
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All good points.
How about : -
CYCLE
Promoting utility and leisure cycling for all.
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and I'm intrigued to know how it will end.
Rather large assumption that it will ever end ;D Whichever way it goes someone is going to lose out big time and feel much aggrieved.....cyclists, like elephants and yorkshiremen, never forget. In 100 years time, when everyone in the country is cycling rather than driving, there will still be an argument about something going on at CTC/CUK/rebrand N+1 towers...tis the nature of the beast....I notice that someone has even managed to drag the mistake of letting MTBers into the CTC into the current argument.. ::-)
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All good points.
How about : -
CYCLE
Promoting utility and leisure cycling for all.
How about : -
CYCLE
Promoting cycling for all.
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All good points.
How about : -
CYCLE
Promoting utility and leisure cycling for all.
How about : -
CYCLE
Promoting cycling for all.
Even better. I was trying to excuse the CTC from trying to cater for racing cyclists, but it does make the strap line clunkier than it need be.
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I've just had a letter from Jon Snow at the CTC.
They think I'm going to die and want me to put them in their will.
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I've just had a letter from Jon Snow at the CTC.
They think I'm going to die and want me to put them in their will.
I think the only certainty in life is that at some time in the future we will no longer be living and will be dead. Applies to everyone. Perhaps Jon Snow know something you don't!
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You may think that letters from organisations that you are a member of asking for money in your will is fine. I think, given the nature of this organisation, it could be adequately addressed in the magazine they send round.
Another nail in the coffin of the CTC.
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You may think that letters from organisations that you are a member of asking for money in your will is fine. I think, given the nature of this organisation, it could be adequately addressed in the magazine they send round.
Another nail in the coffin of the CTC.
Indeed.
I've had the same letter.
Am I alone in thinking it is a bit, errr..... poor taste?
I think I may reply.
I think my reply might tell them I won't be renewing in August.
I think it may contain reference to the CEO's atrocious post of February 21st as part of the reason for not renewing.
Ever since I read that, what has been going round and round in my head is 'who would want to be a member of an organisation that has someone at the helm, with the capacity to come out with something like that?'
I may ask for a refund.
I don't expect that I'll get one.
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It is in extremely poor taste.
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I've just had a letter from Jon Snow at the CTC.
They think I'm going to die and want me to put them in their will.
Me too and most of the of the old-time CTC members on Facebook.
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I'm a CTC Life Member.
I used to get annual 'remember us in your will' Christmas cards from them, which I thought was pretty premature when I was a young 40-year-old.
Now everyone seems to be vying for my bequests, I just have a thicker skin/selective blindness.
But trying to look all nostalgic amidst this major rebranding malarkey is an insult to our not-yet-senile intelligence.
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Just got back to Brum tonight to find my "You're old enough to be dying soon - please remember us in your will" letter.
It hasn't endeared me to the new CTC at all.
>:(
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British Cycling Silver membership includes legal support (https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/legalsupport) to get compensation in the
event of you being injured by the fault of a third party. Silver membership £35 per year.
So . . . unless there's a reduced rate for couples, the same as Mrs. B & I pay each.
I'm not seeing the CTC pricing itself out of the market. Very much in the same range as others, with a comic & the attraction of local groups & history - unfortunately things the current leadership seems keen to disassociate itself from, as well as such idiocies as the will nonsense mentioned.
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Petition update with new sheets received the total comes to 522, I will send them to CTC HQ next week. I am still accepting submissions, keep them coming. Many thanks
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Just got back to Brum tonight to find my "You're old enough to be dying soon - please remember us in your will" letter.
It hasn't endeared me to the new CTC at all.
>:(
Indeed.
What do they want this money for? They have no idea when they are going to get it so it cannot be to shore up the finances now.
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I'll tell you when they're going to get it in my case. Never.
Same as the local cat's home, some bloody Christian outfit I've never heard of, the labour fucking party, or the friends of wosname park.
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Indeed.
I await a plastic ballpoint pen from them next.
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I wish they would stop wasting my subscription sending faux "hand written" letters from Jon Snow suggesting I donate some of my will to the CTC; as arrived through the letter box today*
I'd rather they wasted the money on that bollocks about kids' skulls like wot they did in 1983
or just didn't do any of it...
*probably targeted at those of a certain age; ie about to peg in their mid 50s FFS
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Should I be offended that I'm not getting any of this stuff?
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Should I be offended that I'm not getting any of this stuff?
maybe flattered?
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Should I be offended that I'm not getting any of this stuff?
maybe flattered?
Probably depends on whether they're judging my by age or wealth...
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Should I be offended that I'm not getting any of this stuff?
maybe flattered?
Probably depends on whether they're judging my by age or wealth...
might go on your postcode?
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*probably targeted at those of a certain age; ie about to peg in their mid 50s FFS
Probably targeted at those of a certain age, but not necessarily because they think *you're* likely to peg - more likely that they think you're at an age where you may be making (or updating) your will, either because of life changes or because you may be seeing deaths of friends or family that remind you of your own mortality.
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Having seen the way charities behave after death I won't be giving any money to any of them.
I'll give to my local community foundation. If I have anything to give.
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Almost certainly age. I got one and I live in the officially poorest borough in England, I think.
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Younger people, as a general rule, aren't going to have anything worth leaving in a will I suppose.
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Sorry that we're going rather OT here, but I was rather surprised that wills are somehow searchable online once, I'm guessing, that probate has been granted.
My late uncle made provision for bloody loads of charities in his will, and muggins here was having to deal with it.
I wasn't best pleased to receive letters from two well known national charities which underneath all the polite condolences etc, could be basically paraphrased as "We know we've been left a legacy. Where is it then?"
I made sure they got paid last.
BTW. If there is anyone you really hate, make them the executor of your will. >:(
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Apologies for I'm rather late in joining the debate, but not being one for regular browsing of social media and the like I'd missed the whole rebranding thing despite being a CTC member. I'm sure there must have been something in the magazine once, but again I missed it.
My point being, just how many members know about the rebranding? And if a lot of the previous comments about the ambitions of the CEO are true the direction the 'club' (and I now use that word in very loose sense of the word) is going.
When I mentioned this to Mrs S she said, 'So, what's the difference between them and British Cycling now?"
I mumbled something about BC being more race oriented, but in truth I wasn't really sure.
One last thought. If you join a trade union, you can opt out of your membership fees being used for political support. Why can't a similar option be instigated in the CTC. You pay the same membership fee (or will that soon be give a donation), but you've got the option to stop your money being used for lobbying?
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You didn't know about the rebranding because IT HASN'T BEEN ANNOUNCED IN 'CYCLE' YET!
It will be announced in the April magazine.
In the mean time, club secretaries have had Instructions from On High as to how to use the New Brand.
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Surely they could be United Cycling Kingdom, then we could all have fun putting extra letters in front of the TLA :-)
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You didn't know about the rebranding because IT HASN'T BEEN ANNOUNCED IN 'CYCLE' YET!
How quaint having to reply on printed paper and snail mail to let members know something so vitally important as this.
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It's not even mentioned on their home page.
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It's not even mentioned on their home page.
I get the Adventure Cycling Association's weekly e-newsletter and they announced the CTC rebrand to all their members!
Actually the Adventure Cycling Association is interesting. As I understand it, and I was a member for a couple of years until quite recently in fact, they are the US version of the CTC. They produce a really good magazine which occasionally covers non-US tour destinations, they produce what look like superb maps and route guides and they organise tours and holidays (as does the CTC). Whilst I think they do a bit of cycle advocacy their main reason for being appears to be to support and encourage adventure cycling and they seem to do a pretty good job. So why can't the CTC do likewise?
The term "adventure cycling" is also interesting. Obviously it can include traditional touring but is also broad enough to cover any other sort of non-competitive cycling. I really like the term and if one uses some imagination it could be used to encompass loads of fun stuff. For some folks cycling to the shops is an adventure, for a little kid a ride to the park is an adventure, a couple could have an adventure riding a 50 mile round trip which included a night in a nice B&B etc, etc, etc. Personally, I think this is the easily accessible, inexpensive almost everyday stuff the CTC should be promoting. Perhaps all this will come out as the re-brand is more fully launched.
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For the information of CTC members, this is what Member Group secretaries received on Friday 4 March:
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Cycling UK brand roll-out
As you will know from recent communications from Paul Tuohy and David Cox, CTC is shortly to rebrand itself as 'Cycling UK'.
This exciting news means that we will soon be issuing CTC groups with all the tools and information they need in order to adopt the new brand.
In the week commencing Monday 7 March, we will send you:
A 'Cycling UK' brand toolkit comprising:
Full brand guidelines:
the use of the brand;
the tone of voice;
associated colours, logos and fonts;
suggested imagery to use on websites and in communications;
Social media toolkit and sample local press release;
Order form for marketing materials such as banners/fliers/business cards and so on which will be supplied by Cycling UK
Information about a brand launch pack to use for your own Cycling UK celebratory events
Information on Bike Week 2016
Guidance on the use of the 'winged wheel' and 'wobbly wheel' logos plus the 'CTC' and 'Cyclists' Touring Club' names
The following week commencing Monday 14 March, we will host an interactive webinar to go through the brand guidelines and answer any questions you may have.
The brand will be officially launched on Tuesday 5 April 2016 so look out for a new-look website on that date. This will also be the date when we start using the brand name 'Cycling UK' in all our communications.
There will also be a special edition of the April/May edition of ‘Cycle’ magazine hitting your doormat around that time which will look at the background to choosing the new brand and what it will mean for the future of the organisation.
We hope you and your group are looking forward to using the new name, logo, fonts and colours as much as we are. We have received very positive feedback from many of our groups so far, but please don’t hesitate to get in touch if you have any concerns in the meantime.
Kind regards
Julie Rand
Member Group Coordinator
---------------------------------------------
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I have used the freepost envelope supplied with the bequest request to make my feelings known :sick:
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I get the distinct impression that we now fall simply into the category entitled 'Pesky Members'.
You know, the sort that interfere with all of the Management's brilliant ideas.
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I have used the freepost envelope supplied with the bequest request to make my feelings known :sick:
I was going to send mine 'Signed for'.
There's less likelihood of anyone saying 'What letter?.....
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The term "adventure cycling" is also interesting. Obviously it can include traditional touring but is also broad enough to cover any other sort of non-competitive cycling. I really like the term and if one uses some imagination it could be used to encompass loads of fun stuff. For some folks cycling to the shops is an adventure, for a little kid a ride to the park is an adventure, a couple could have an adventure riding a 50 mile round trip which included a night in a nice B&B etc, etc, etc.
Agreed. Nod to CrinklyLion for introducing the term "Silly Bike Adventures" to my vocabulary.
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I'm wondering if RoadCyclingUK might not object to the CTC's use of the slogan Cycling UK.
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It's not even mentioned on their home page.
I get the Adventure Cycling Association's weekly e-newsletter and they announced the CTC rebrand to all their members!
Actually the Adventure Cycling Association is interesting. As I understand it, and I was a member for a couple of years until quite recently in fact, they are the US version of the CTC. They produce a really good magazine which occasionally covers non-US tour destinations, they produce what look like superb maps and route guides and they organise tours and holidays (as does the CTC). Whilst I think they do a bit of cycle advocacy their main reason for being appears to be to support and encourage adventure cycling and they seem to do a pretty good job. So why can't the CTC do likewise?
The term "adventure cycling" is also interesting. Obviously it can include traditional touring but is also broad enough to cover any other sort of non-competitive cycling. I really like the term and if one uses some imagination it could be used to encompass loads of fun stuff. For some folks cycling to the shops is an adventure, for a little kid a ride to the park is an adventure, a couple could have an adventure riding a 50 mile round trip which included a night in a nice B&B etc, etc, etc. Personally, I think this is the easily accessible, inexpensive almost everyday stuff the CTC should be promoting. Perhaps all this will come out as the re-brand is more fully launched.
We even have a thread on this forum dedicated to that kind of "unadventurous adventure". I think you might have posted in it once or twice. :)
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Absolutely, it's one of the many things I love about cycling - how you can make an adventure out of almost anything!
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I get the distinct impression that we now fall simply into the category entitled 'Pesky Members'.
You know, the sort that interfere with all of the Management's brilliant ideas.
No we won't be members any more, we'll be partners, colleagues, co-cyclist or just members of the peloton and the membership fee with become a donation, complete a form for gift aid so they can claim back your income tax.
As a matter of interest, anyone know what the new CEO is on (as in wages)?
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I'm wondering if RoadCyclingUK might not object to the CTC's use of the slogan Cycling UK.
They might object, but is the objection based on any legal foundation?
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When the begging letter (will request), landed on my door mat I thought the CTC was finally letting me know about the re-branding (silly me),
thought it a bit ironic that the letter and envelope had winged wheels in abundance.
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I would imagine that's carefully calculated.
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CTC is now a charity. That means it has to put its charitable purposes first, second, third and last. If there are side benefits for members that's fine, but the primary purpose has to be for the wider community. (I'm sure we went through all of this when the change to a charity was happening.)
If you want to be part of a members' club which organises things for its members as its primary purpose, the CTC is no longer where you should be.
Might not like it, but...
(Personally I'm likely to stay out of inertia. I don't really understand the differences between the other groups and which would be best for me as a low mileage cycling commuter who gets out of the occasional pootle round the lanes)
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Can a charity de-charityise ?
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Can a charity de-charityise ?
I'm not sure that they can - I think that was part of the reason for the *ahem* difficult times, a few years ago (2008/9?).
I may be wrong, but I think it is a one-way move.
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If they can, I wonder if a poll of members, now with direct experience of being charity members, might tend towards decharitisation.
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It's a rip off of "We are Macmillan", which was one of the crappiest rebrandings I've ever seen.
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Trouble is, there's a rump of people who would probably vote for it as it is, like they voted for what we have now. Those of them that have had the stupid Will letter will be happy with it, because they're going to die anyway.
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I am not an expert but I have been the chair of trustees for a charity (our village hall) and the previous committee had let things vis-a-vis the Charity Commission slip a bit so I have had to deal with Trust Deeds, reporting to the CC and so on.
My quick reading of the CC notes on winding up (which is what I suspect you'd have to do) is that the funds have to be spent to further the aims of the charity so 'investing' them in a private club might be pushing it a bit far.
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Just realized, next month I'll be a AUK and a CUK
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And would it be safe to presume that in the charitisation that all assets of the club were handed over to the charity?
That really would make charitisation a one-way affair.
Have we seen the promised benefits of being a charity yet ?
Edit. And ref that first point, any reverse of status sure as hell wouldn't allow the assets to be taken away from the charity.
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I would imagine that's carefully calculated.
I agree!
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Trouble is, there's a rump of people who would probably vote for it as it is, like they voted for what we have now. Those of them that have had the stupid Will letter will be happy with it, because they're going to die anyway.
Over on Facebook there many discontented dyed-in-the-wool CTC people.
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Speaking as an outsider (and therefore someone whose views are utterly irrelevant) I had been considering joining the CTC, but was put off by the proposed move to charity status.
Having kept half an eye on the various CTC threads on YACF over the last 2 or 3 years I've seen nothing that would persuade me to join the CTC now and plenty that I find discouraging.
I can only hope that CTC didn't shell out much money for what may be the most pitifully poor rebranding since Consignia was delivered still-born some 20 years ago.
I'll shut up now and you can all start throwing stones at the outsider instead of each other. :)
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We are not throwing stones at each other really, just grumbling...
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I find the modern focus on brands rather worrying. Ironically, my employer's brand came from a flippant comment by the Chairman of the time and really is nicked from the BBC early evening programme of the same name, if you're old enough to remember the 1970s. These days we'd probably call ourselves Financia or Mortgageo.
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I find the modern focus on brands rather worrying. Ironically, my employer's brand came from a flippant comment by the Chairman of the time and really is nicked from the BBC early evening programme of the same name, if you're old enough to remember the 1970s. These days we'd probably call ourselves Financia or Mortgageo.
When I was a kid in the 70s I kept my money in a Nationwide account. I think was the South of England BS before it was Nationwide.
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Baba baah, baba baah, baba baah, baba bah!
Bye-bye Co-Operative Building Society!
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The rebrand was because another financial services firm with "Co-Operative" in its name was getting bad press (where have we heard that more recently?) and The Co-Operative Permanent (as was) was suffering the first inklings of a run, being tainted merely by association.
The BBC programme that broke the story about the unrelated firm and caused all the bother? Nationwide.
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Have we seen the promised benefits of being a charity yet ?
No one promised any benefits whatsoever, just a long road of suffering and pain
But offer people entry into a prize draw and they'll vote for anything
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I find the modern focus on brands rather worrying. Ironically, my employer's brand came from a flippant comment by the Chairman of the time and really is nicked from the BBC early evening programme of the same name, if you're old enough to remember the 1970s. These days we'd probably call ourselves Financia or Mortgageo.
Not 'Pugwash' then? ;)
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Reading Helly's post about the Re-branding Pack, sent to district people. I saw the word "Webinar"! Please tell me this isn't actually a word used by real people as it sounds like total CRAP. I will not rejoin any organisation that spews that sort of "Hey, we're hip and up to date" garbage.
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Oh it exists, I'm supposed to be 'attending' one tomorrow, if I don't find a way of getting out of it. It's on the wonderful topic of 'Sludge and Slurry handling'
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Genuine CRAP then... ;D ;D ;D
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I am not an expert but I have been the chair of trustees for a charity (our village hall) and the previous committee had let things vis-a-vis the Charity Commission slip a bit so I have had to deal with Trust Deeds, reporting to the CC and so on.
My quick reading of the CC notes on winding up (which is what I suspect you'd have to do) is that the funds have to be spent to further the aims of the charity so 'investing' them in a private club might be pushing it a bit far.
When CTC became a charity (or rather when the CTC merged with the CTC Trust) all the CTC's assets, including its main asset - the Head Office building, were handed over to the new charity. They didn't have to be - but they were.
Some of us were warning about this... but we were shouted down and told we were scaremongering. We even predicted the move to rebrand the organisation... David Cox lied at the time and assured the members it wouldn't happen.
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Alas, PD, "webinar" is a term much loved by lipless grinning middle management wonks who want badly to be sent to the camps ect. ect.
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Webinars are dreadful but a better alternative to being told you have to attend a real meeting. The trick with webinars is to listen on headphones with your mobile phone muted whilst you carry out bicycle maintenance tasks in one's fettling facility.
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"Webinar" is a perfectly apt term for the shambles it usually involves.
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Whoa there, as this group's premier Thought Leader, I don't just attend webinars, I occasionally create and host them.
OK, I hate them with the special, distilled passion that I save for all things passively presented online, but realistically the other option is that we let their thoughts lack leadership. Let them wander unattended like small children by a motorway. With a kitten farm on the other side. Someone has to step up. I may, thinking about, create a 'thought leadership' thread specially for you lot. I sense a desperate need for thought leadership here. Alternatively I might be just be misinterpreting that slightly brie-like odour of inveterate cyclists.
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Just realized, next month I'll be a AUK and a CUK
Good job you're not a member of a national Fishing, Flying or Falconry club then .
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Reading Helly's post about the Re-branding Pack, sent to district people. I saw the word "Webinar"! Please tell me this isn't actually a word used by real people as it sounds like total CRAP. I will not rejoin any organisation that spews that sort of "Hey, we're hip and up to date" garbage.
Please tell me a better term.
(Then maybe I'll agree that I should choose a different organisation simply on the basis of some terminology you don't like!)
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Nowt wrong with a properly run webinar. I have participated (rather than just been victim to) some good ones. These are interactive, informative and useful. Don't shoot the messenger.
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Or the format of the message (necessarily).
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To an outsider it seems like CTC central do a reasonable job as a campaigning organisation (if you want that). And that local CTC clubs are good at what they do (if you want that). And that a specialist club to disseminate information about touring is at best a small niche. Do the first two need to be tied together? Does CTC HQ deliver useful services to CTC clubs other than insurance? Is the obsession with rebranding and campaigning having a negative impact on those services? Is it just a waste of money or is it actually affecting stuff?
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CTC used to provide touring and technical information to its members but sacked the members of staff who provided the service, leaving many discontented.
The staff are familiar and well-loved figures (and post on Facebook).
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Jog my memory, if you can Helly.
Wasn't the reason given for Chris Juden's departure that 'All this technical information is now available online' or words to that effect?
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Possibly. They would say that, wouldn't they?
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Indeed.
I note that there obviously can't be as much technical documentation online as they first thought.
Otherwise, why would they employ another tech editor?
ETA - Rhetorical question: Why is the 'integrity' word going round and round in my head?
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Most technical information can be found here on YACF, surely. And not only about cycling! But the point is that finding it when you know roughly what to look for is not the same as having it, especially new and interesting developments, presented to you in a form that's been digested by someone who knows both what they're talking about and how to present it to those who don't.
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Whoa there, as this group's premier Thought Leader, I don't just attend webinars, I occasionally create and host them.
Whoa there! Where did I leave the gun, the petrol, the matches1 and the Lighthouse Family?
OK, I hate them with the special, distilled passion that I save for all things passively presented online, but realistically the other option is that we let their thoughts lack leadership. Let them wander unattended like small children by a motorway. With a kitten farm on the other side. Someone has to step up. I may, thinking about, create a 'thought leadership' thread specially for you lot. I sense a desperate need for thought leadership here. Alternatively I might be just be misinterpreting that slightly brie-like odour of inveterate cyclists.
Ah, that's better. Bitter experience has shewn most such things to be like unto a Powerpoint presentation but, improbably, even worse. The only good thing ever to come out of such an abomination was the time I started to get my Babbage-Engine ready ten minutes before the off and still hadn't managed to get access twenty-five minutes later, with The Boss watching. This convinced him that my pleadings for a new PC were not (just) generated by unbridled lust for New Shiny.
ETA - Rhetorical question: Why is the 'integrity' word going round and round in my head?
See also The Register's slogan: "Integrity? We've heard of it."
1: Though I have a new Zippo now, which is Teh Aces for arson oops what a giveaway...
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Whoa there, as this group's premier Thought Leader, I don't just attend webinars, I occasionally create and host them.
Whoa there! Where did I leave the gun, the petrol, the matches1 and the Lighthouse Family?
OK, I hate them with the special, distilled passion that I save for all things passively presented online, but realistically the other option is that we let their thoughts lack leadership. Let them wander unattended like small children by a motorway. With a kitten farm on the other side. Someone has to step up. I may, thinking about, create a 'thought leadership' thread specially for you lot. I sense a desperate need for thought leadership here. Alternatively I might be just be misinterpreting that slightly brie-like odour of inveterate cyclists.
Ah, that's better. Bitter experience has shewn most such things to be like unto a Powerpoint presentation but, improbably, even worse. The only good thing ever to come out of such an abomination was the time I started to get my Babbage-Engine ready ten minutes before the off and still hadn't managed to get access twenty-five minutes later, with The Boss watching. This convinced him that my pleadings for a new PC were not (just) generated by unbridled lust for New Shiny.
ETA - Rhetorical question: Why is the 'integrity' word going round and round in my head?
See also The Register's slogan: "Integrity? We've heard of it."
1: Though I have a new Zippo now, which is Teh Aces for arson oops what a giveaway...
Quality may vary. Depends which side of the virtual table I'm on. You've not seen my Powerpoints. They're banned under several international conventions. The same principles apply as with all presentations. If you're reading the bullet points from your slides I'm going to come and attack you with sharks. It's harder with webinars because sharks don't travel so well, but anyone who's watched Jaws 3 knows that merely avoiding the seaside won't save you from the big bitey death. It's why Americans have crap, shallow baths. They're scared of sharky vengeance and rightfully so. There's a special place in Hell for people who make me look at 8pt Arial.
For added toothy fearsomeness, I'm going on an infographics course (at POBI's favourite newspaper).
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I don't have a Problem with the actual seminar using the internet. I just feel sick at the Buzzword "Webinar". Fuck off and find your own word, don't bastardise a word just to be too lazy to use a few extra syllables in the description.
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Webinarisationing of business presentationism is ensuring the total futureproofingness of our company.
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Webinar is a perfect sensible neologism, rather than labour a 'seminar conducted on the internet.' It's been about since the 1990s and is in the OED. Presumably we should drop other fancy words like the internet, and instead let's always refer to it as 'a global network of interconnected computers' or somesuch. Daddy-o.
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It's the Information Superhighway. Call me Dave called it that at PMQ yesterday, so it must be.
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Is it the Barclays Information Superhighway or the Santander Information Superhighway?
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Is it the Barclays Information Superhighway or the Santander Information Superhighway?
Whatever superhighway it is, all the traffic goes via Cheltenham
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Sorry I spoke. It's been round since the 90's? People too lazy to say "Web Seminar"?
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Webinar is a perfect sensible neologism, rather than labour a 'seminar conducted on the internet.' It's been about since the 1990s and is in the OED. Presumably we should drop other fancy words like the internet, and instead let's always refer to it as 'a global network of interconnected computers' or somesuch. Daddy-o.
"Internet" didn't come from anywhere, did it?
Seminar was used before the internet so why crunch words?
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It's the Information Superhighway. Call me Dave called it that at PMQ yesterday, so it must be.
He's been watching old episodes of the BBC's Click Online, presumably.
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Webinar is a perfect sensible neologism, rather than labour a 'seminar conducted on the internet.' It's been about since the 1990s and is in the OED. Presumably we should drop other fancy words like the internet, and instead let's always refer to it as 'a global network of interconnected computers' or somesuch. Daddy-o.
"Internet" didn't come from anywhere, did it?
Seminar was used before the internet so why crunch words?
Internet is a neologism. Lots of words are. You can tweet them.
It's not 'web seminar' of course, that would be a seminar about the web. If you say webinar, people will know what you mean and there's no confusion.
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Is it the Barclays Information Superhighway or the Santander Information Superhighway?
Whatever superhighway it is, all the traffic goes via Cheltenham
Information Superspyway.
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Webinar is a perfect sensible neologism, rather than labour a 'seminar conducted on the internet.' It's been about since the 1990s and is in the OED. Presumably we should drop other fancy words like the internet, and instead let's always refer to it as 'a global network of interconnected computers' or somesuch. Daddy-o.
"Internet" didn't come from anywhere, did it?
Seminar was used before the internet so why crunch words?
Internet is a neologism. Lots of words are. You can tweet them.
It's not 'web seminar' of course, that would be a seminar about the web. If you say webinar, people will know what you mean and there's no confusion.
Indeed. You have to invent new words when you invent new things. Otherwise you end up like barakta's grandmother who doesn't believe in anything that's not in her nineteen-oh-mumble Webster (I'm not sure what her policy was on X-rays).
Which isn't to say that many neologisms aren't naff, but webinar isn't one of them. A perfectly good word for a naff thing isn't in itself naff.
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Words live or die, that's the magic of language. Plus you get bonus points for annoying curmudgeons and pedants. I try to invent a new word every day. One day I'm going to poison the entire corpus of the English language. I have actually visited the OED offices. They watched me closely.
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Here's a new word:
Cuk (adj.) /kʌk/ The appearance of a long established product or service that has been rebranded with the aim of projecting a dynamic contemporary feel but in reality looks like the rushed efforts of a first year design student who realises their coursework deadline is in less than an hour.
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It's not 'web seminar' of course, that would be a seminar about the web. If you say webinar, people will know what you mean and there's no confusion.
No confusion, but great nausea.
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Perhaps Jon Snow know something you don't!
He knows nothing, Jon Snow.
That was a wide open goal for three whole days. This forum isn't what it used to be.
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That was a wide open goal for three whole days. This forum isn't what it used to be.
Nahh. That joke became irrevocably tainted when David Cameron used it (http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/media_library/users/SamJones/cameron_response.pdf).
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Ouch.
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Here's a new word:
Cuk (adj.) /kʌk/ The appearance of a long established product or service that has been rebranded with the aim of projecting a dynamic contemporary feel but in reality looks like the rushed efforts of a first year design student who realises their coursework deadline is in less than an hour.
Is that not related to kack?
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The majority of the last 3 pages of this thread contain posts which have naff all to do with the CTC ;D
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The majority of the last 3 pages of this thread contain posts which have naff all to do with the CTC ;D
Hi, welcome to YACF - you been here long? ;) ;D
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The majority of the last 3 pages of this thread contain posts which have naff all to do with the CTC ;D
Hi, welcome to YACF - you been here long? ;) ;D
Too long ;D Since the beginning and before that even.
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Anyhow, clearly the CTC re-branding has become boring, or maybe we've moaned about every we can moan about. What now?
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Anyhow, clearly the CTC re-branding has become boring, or maybe we've moaned about every we can moan about. What now?
YACF needs a rebrand, don't you think? How about We Are Yet Another Cycling Forum UK The Forumites' Champion?
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Anyhow, clearly the CTC re-branding has become boring, or maybe we've moaned about every we can moan about. What now?
YACF needs a rebrand, don't you think? How about We Are Yet Another Cycling Forum UK The Forumites' Champion?
I think you're right. Have you seen the members? We really need a better class of cyclist. Or even non-cyclists. All cyclists do is moan ;D
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Genius suggestion, OD!
"We are moaning UK"
:D
or should that be
:hand:
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Moaning UK. MUK for short.
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The majority of the last 3 pages of this thread contain posts which have naff all to do with the CTC ;D
Hi, welcome to YACF - you been here long? ;) ;D
Too long ;D Since the beginning and before that even.
Hah - I thought you were an old hand; didn't realise you were a lifer! ;D
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Organizations change. Incumbents moan. It's the usual blah-de-blah. I'm a cyclist and I had no idea who the CTC were. I can understand them wanting to move forward from beardy blokes with panniers. Does the country need another cycling campaign group? I doubt it. No one likes cyclists anyway and they'll probably spend half their time arguing amongst themselves about helmets. Better conditions for cycling requires, I think, larger scale advocacy. Cyclists won't manage that alone, particularly as they seem terminally unable to agree among themselves.
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Agreed. We need far fewer cyclists and more people that simply ride bikes in preference to other forms of transport, particularly those forms of transport that involve motors, even electric ones.
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What about bikes with electric motors?
I've said before that what's really needed is a pedestrian revolution, but cyclists are much better at organising.
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What about bikes with electric motors?
I've said before that what's really needed is a pedestrian revolution, but cyclists are much better at organising.
They are permitted. But you'll need me to sign a special authorisation beforehand. If you have a genuine need it'll be OK. If you're just being a lazy git you can sod off. You are yours are fine so don't worry.
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What about bikes with electric motors?
I've said before that what's really needed is a pedestrian revolution, but cyclists are much better at organising.
Except they're not. What have cycling organizations achieved? A splash and paint here and there, a few mostly awful us vs. them media interviews, and a bit of self-congratulation about a rutted, muddy track between two places hardly anyone wants to get to in the first place. Rather than campaign, they seem caught up in interminable arguments about helmets and segregation. If they can't agree amongst themselves, there's not much hope convincing anyone else. This thread is a good example of that. Jesus guys, don't fucking campaign on my behalf as a cyclist, I may as well go ride into a wall.
You see the woman pushing her buggy out into the road to get around a pavement parked Q7? That's where the advocacy is. Keep it about cyclists and no one will care until the numbers make an impact, and I doubt that's going to happen outside London.
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True that.
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Pedestrian revolution? I ain't walking anywhere till they invent electrically powered shoes. Oh, hang on, they have. It's called a hover board. Hover boarders of the world unite in flight! What do you mean they don't actually fly?
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........ Jesus guys, don't fucking campaign on my behalf as a cyclist, I may as well go ride into a wall.
My bold
With helmet or without?
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CTC IS PLAYING FAST AND LOSES WITH THE TRUTH
Philip
Thank you for your messages. The Executive Committee met earlier today to discuss this issue and agree next steps.
Your Petition
Your petition was received and acknowledged by me on Friday last. The initial assessment of the National Office team is that it is valid with over 200 signatures from members.
The response required is specified by the articles of association of the charity: article 11.3 requires the details of a valid petition (one with 200 signatures) to be published ‘in the next issue but one of the Club magazine’.
Arrangements are now in place to ensure that this occurs in the June/July edition.
The Content of the Notice in the Magazine
It will be necessary to consider the most appropriate manner in which to communicate to members the reasons for the ballot and your concerns. In doing so, the trustees must act in the best interests of the charity as a whole.
That does not require that:
• the arguments on either side must be set out at equal length, that your views must have equal exposure via CTC communications channels; or that
• your views should be expressed without editorial control. In order to set out the issues for members in a responsible and balanced manner, it may be necessary to make changes that go further than editing for clarity and this would not amount to ‘censorship’ as you have suggested.
The charity will not therefore be providing the assurances you request.
The content of the magazine will be decided in the usual way and we will be in touch again in due course.
Meanwhile, have a good weekend.
Regards
Shivaji
Shivaji Shiva
Senior Associate
for Anthony Collins Solicitors LLP
From: Philip Benstead1 [mailto:philipbenstead1@gmail.com]
Sent: 09 March 2016 19:45
To: Shivaji Shiva; Paul Tuohy
Cc: CTC Council
Subject: CTC Rebranding - Petition for Poll of the whole club [38223.0002]
Importance: High
Thank you for your email.
Please can you supply the course of action and timetable for this poll of the whole club.
Can you also list the arrangements by which the arguments for either side will be conveyed to CTC members?
I also request an undertaking that any submission of argument on either side will equal in length and will have equal exposure via CTC official conducts.
Furthermore, I seek assurances that my submissions from my side will be free of censorship, any editorial control must be limited to the process of aiding clarity.
I look forward to your reply soon.
Thank you for your help in this matter.
Philip Benstead B.Env.Sc. (Hons.) | FORMER CTC Councillor
| Mobile: 0794-980-1698 | Email: philipbenstead1@gmail.com | Westminster, London, SW1
Organizing cycling events/rides and representing cyclist interests in GLA area and Home Counties since 1988.
Do want to go on a Social Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
DfT/CTC Bikeability Instructor / Instructor Trainer and Level 3 Cycle Mechanic
From: Shivaji Shiva [mailto:Shivaji.Shiva@anthonycollins.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2016 11:29 AM
To: 'Philip Benstead1' <philipbenstead1@gmail.com>
Cc: CTC COUNCIL
Subject: RE: CTC Rebranding - Petition for Poll of the whole club [38223.0002]
Philip
Thank you for this message.
As CTC’s legal adviser, I will speak to the National Office team, consult David Cox as Chair of Council and respond in due course.
Shivaji
Shivaji Shiva
Senior Associate
for Anthony Collins Solicitors LLP
From: Philip Benstead1 [mailto:philipbenstead1@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 March 2016 11:16
To: 'PhilipBenstead1'
Cc: CTC Council
Subject: CTC Rebranding - Petition for Poll of the whole club
David Cox – Chair / Paul Touhy - Chief Executive
Cyclists’ Touring Club
Parklands,
Railton Road,
Guildford,
Surrey, GU2 9JX
Philip Benstead
CTC Brand Petition,
19 Greencoat Mansions,
Greencoat Row,
Westminster,
London, SW1P 1PG
philipbenstead1@gmail.com
0794-980-1698
Thursday, 03 March 2016
Dear Sirs,
I have despatch a package to you today by registered post please confirm safe receipt of this package by emailing philipbenstead1@gmail.com
In accordance with Article 11 Memorandum of Association of the Cyclists’ Touring Club (As Amended by the AGM On 12 May 2012)
A poll of the whole Club shall be taken if either one third of the members of the Council or 200 Members of the Club shall within three months of the passing of a resolution in a Council Meeting or General Meeting lodge with the Secretary a petition in writing signed by the petitioning members)
I am submitting is petition on behalf of CTC members to demand a polls of the whole club in regard the motion passed at CTC Council meeting on 23rd January 2016 that agree to the replacement of the existing “Cyclists` Touring Club or CTC” and associated logo(s) and heritage marks with “CYCLING UK” or any other branding name and logo(s).
We are petitioning the CTC to demand a poll of the whole club so CTC members will have the opportunity to indorse or overturn the motion.
I would be obliged if you would confirm receipt of this letter and the enclosures by return.
The petition comprises 47 sheets, containing the names, CTC membership number and signatures of 392 members of the CTC. I have excluded signatures without a CTC membership number or otherwise spoiled. This exceeds the 200 signatures required under Article 11.
I have taken advice from my CTC Councillors on the procedure to be followed for the petition. I understand that the CTC is required to publish full details of the petition in the next but one issue of the Club magazine to be distributed after the petition has been lodged. Councillors confirm that would be the June/July 2016 edition.
Please note that, in addition to taking advice from councillors, I have informed CTC Councillors for the petition, to whom I am copying this letter, and understand that they will be closely monitoring how it is dealt with by the National Office and Council. I have been assured that the advice and support of councillors will fully available to me at all stages of the process.
Also I have photocopied these sheets and in addition I expect many more sheets will be arriving in the near future which I will forward to you in due course.
Yours faithfully,
Philip Benstead
BRAND PETITION COORDINATOR AND POST-BOX
Cc CTC Council
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Well done Philip. Nice work.
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Pretty shabby though if they really do bend the content of the magazine.
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Good luck.
HK is still a CTC member, though I've already given up with them.
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One plus is that we all get to goof off for 30 minutes at the start of any web-meeting, on account of IT problems.
I do not recall ever attending an on-like session that did not begin like this:
Hi, Can you all hear me? Can you see me? No? ah, well....
Do you have the BlueJeans plug-in installed in your browser?
Oh, I see, your browser doesn't support plugins. OK.
WHOOOOOOOOOOOO EEEEEEEEEEEEEE OOOOOOOO
Ah, right, sorry. Can those people in the conference rooms with the big screens and A/V systems *please* mute the mikes on their laptops, we're getting feedback.
The room mikes are good enough, thanks.
So, you need to install the stand-alone client, here, I'll send you the link.
Oh, you don't have the admin rights to install that?
So you would rather we used Lync? Or Skype? that works for you?
Ah, but not for the others.
How about Webex?
Say, how about I just send you all the PPT and we can talk about it later?
The size, you ask? er, 35Meg, is that a problem? I can ZIP it up.
Ah, yes, your organisation blocks zip attachments.
And so it continues...
( It has been known for me to resort to placing content on my home FTP server to get it to customers! )
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Urgh, I'm going to find myself on the stabby horns of a nasty dilemma.
New logo looks vom-worthy. :sick:
Horrible new-world charity management fuckwittery makes me want to run a mile.
BUT I do sometimes ride with the local CTC group- and Bristol CTC still has a very active touring calendar (as well as running some of its own audaxes). I've been to a couple of Sem Feds with them as well as medieval banquet piss ups and the like. I still want to be a part of all that and keep in touch with those friends.
I could have done them a less crap logo for much less than I bet they paid. The veterinary practice I worked at 20 years ago didn't really have a proper logo- so the head nurse drew me a nice silouette outline of a dog and cat which I somehow managed to turn into an image on my PC- and then I used Coral Draw to make a logo. It took me about an hour- and I did it just for the jollies. The practice are still using that logo :o ;D
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You see the woman pushing her buggy out into the road to get around a pavement parked Q7? That's where the advocacy is. Keep it about cyclists and no one will care until the numbers make an impact, and I doubt that's going to happen outside London.
Hmmm.A sort of
War On The Motorist ?
It coooould catch on ...
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... turn into an image on my PC- and then I used Coral Draw to make a logo. .....
Many fond memories of using CD for all types of uses including logos for various things. Access to such a programme had its benefits and always resulted in lots of free alcohol!
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BUT I do sometimes ride with the local CTC group- and Bristol CTC still has a very active touring calendar (as well as running some of its own audaxes). I've been to a couple of Sem Feds with them as well as medieval banquet piss ups and the like. I still want to be a part of all that and keep in touch with those friends.
Just take out a year's CTC membership, by which time these groups may have become affiliates (it's all the rage at the moment) and you can then ride with them without CTC membership.
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Never mind the medieval banquets, they're holding a barn dance next week!
But what is the CTC? It's Keith, Dave, Sarah, Jane, Mike and so on, riding on a weekend or going to the pub on a Wednesday evening.
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But what is the CTC? It's Keith, Dave, Sarah, Jane, Mike and so on, riding on a weekend or going to the pub on a Wednesday evening.
Exactly, which makes what CTC HQ are trying to do seem rather irrelevant in some regards.
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But what is the CTC? It's Keith, Dave, Sarah, Jane, Mike and so on, riding on a weekend or going to the pub on a Wednesday evening.
Exactly, which makes what CTC HQ are trying to do seem rather irrelevant in some regards.
Sums up the disconnect quite well I think.
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Communication with CTC Councillors
I tried to have a chat today with a CTC Councillor for the SE. I wanted to know his view of the culture of the CTC. He accused me of being hostile towards the CTC and was putting CTC HQ under pressure. He thought that was unacceptable given I had been a previously been a long serving CTC Councillor. He also thought it was not appropriate for a CTC Councillor to talk to ME.
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Cyclists’ Touring Club (CTC) AGM 2016
URGENT - PLEASE FORWARD TO ALL CTC LOCAL MEMBER GROUPS AND INFORMAL GROUP AND ANY OTHER CTC MEMBERS YOU KNOW.
NOTE CHANGE OF TIME
http://www.ctc.org.uk/agm
Our AGM
The Annual General Meeting of the Cyclists’ Touring Club will be held at on Saturday 7th May 2016 at the Hallmark Hotel, Midland Road, Derby, DE1 2SQ at 11.30am.
To obtain admission, members must produce a valid membership card or other proof of current membership.
To enable to venue to cater for the correct numbers, please advise Sue Cherry if you will be attending - sue.cherry@ctc.org.uk or phone 01483 238302.
http://www.hallmarkhotels.co.uk/hotels/derby-midland/map-and-directions
http://www.hallmarkhotels.co.uk/hotels/derby-midland
Below you will find the following papers for reference:-
Go to http://www.ctc.org.uk/agm
2016 AGM Agenda and 2015 Minutes as printed in the April/May issue of Cycle.
Governance Paper with track changes which reflect the changes made at the January 2016 National Council meeting.
Orders in Council paper with track changes.
AGM Agenda 2016 and 2015 Minutes 314.25 KB
Governance Paper 1.1 MB
Orders in Council 33.49 KB
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I frankly doubt many will turn up at Derby intending to fight the management. Even if you win a battle about the way the rebranding is to be carried out, it will almost certainly happen. Most members are still in CTC either because (like me), they haven't been bothered to get their insurance elsewhere, or because they're in one of the active cycling groups. We had and lost the charity battle years ago; the organisation you few are fighting for has gone and will not return.
The active groups will either become independent clubs or will merge with other local clubs. The touring database of information will probably remain in some form or other, as Sheldon Brown's site has, but to all intents and purposes, the Cyclists' Touring Club has ceased to exist. By all means continue to try and set up an alternative (though I fear BC and AUK have probably mopped up many potential members), but I think the efforts to stop this particular juggernaut are in vain. Whatever they end up calling themselves, CTC/UKC are determined simply to be a lobbying/campaigning group.
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I frankly doubt many will turn up at Derby intending to fight the management. Even if you win a battle about the way the rebranding is to be carried out, it will almost certainly happen. Most members are still in CTC either because (like me), they haven't been bothered to get their insurance elsewhere, or because they're in one of the active cycling groups. We had and lost the charity battle years ago; the organisation you few are fighting for has gone and will not return.
The active groups will either become independent clubs or will merge with other local clubs. The touring database of information will probably remain in some form or other, as Sheldon Brown's site has, but to all intents and purposes, the Cyclists' Touring Club has ceased to exist. By all means continue to try and set up an alternative (though I fear BC and AUK have probably mopped up many potential members), but I think the efforts to stop this particular juggernaut are in vain. Whatever they end up calling themselves, CTC/UKC are determined simply to be a lobbying/campaigning group.
My bold.
That's kinda my feeling...
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Sad but true. Rather than fight a fight you can't win why not simply go for a nice bike ride. After all, it's what it's all about isn't it?
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I frankly doubt many will turn up at Derby intending to fight the management. Even if you win a battle about the way the rebranding is to be carried out, it will almost certainly happen. Most members are still in CTC either because (like me), they haven't been bothered to get their insurance elsewhere, or because they're in one of the active cycling groups. We had and lost the charity battle years ago; the organisation you few are fighting for has gone and will not return.
The active groups will either become independent clubs or will merge with other local clubs. The touring database of information will probably remain in some form or other, as Sheldon Brown's site has, but to all intents and purposes, the Cyclists' Touring Club has ceased to exist. By all means continue to try and set up an alternative (though I fear BC and AUK have probably mopped up many potential members), but I think the efforts to stop this particular juggernaut are in vain. Whatever they end up calling themselves, CTC/UKC are determined simply to be a lobbying/campaigning group.
+1
I was a little bit vociferous when this all kicked off, but I too am coming to the conclusion that what will be, will be. After all it doesn't matter who you vote for, the management always wins (to misquote).
If ÇUK is going to succeed, then it will succeed (although I won't help it) - if it's going tits up, then so be it (but I won't put the knife in either).
But - one little correction to your last phrase - ÇUK (why does the iPad add the cedilla?) are determined simply to be the recipient of grants no matter what they can be used for.
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Well, my new copy of Cycling just came through the door, trumpeting this exciting new era in CTC's rich history.
It was redirected from my old house, so in an attempt to change my address on the CTC website, I tried to log on.
They're rebranding the website at the moment - so it's down for maintenance.
It's a done deal, I guess.
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It's a done deal at that level but we don't know what effect if any it will have locally.
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ÇUK (why does the iPad add the cedilla?)
Because it should be pronounced 'Suck'?
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Just received my copy of Cycle
I am not a designer and so all that follows is based on experience rather than training.
In the last decade or so I've done a lot of work with designers and brand specialists - both totally frustrating and hugely enjoyable in equal measures.
Regardless of the arguments for and against the rebranding I really wish we (for I am a CTC member) had paid a designer to come up with the new 'we are cycling uk' logo rather than the budget option of getting someone in the office to knock it up on whatever programme is a bit more creative than Word. :facepalm:
On the off chance we did use a designer - can I get refund?
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ÇUK (why does the iPad add the cedilla?)
Because it should be pronounced 'Suck'?
Or 'chuck' in other pronunciations...
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I believe they did get a designer.
I also believe almost anybody here, including those like me with no artistic talent, could do better given half a day on a noddy computer with noddy software.
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I believe they did (http://did) get a designer.
In the same way that Donald Trump gets a hair stylist?
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Just received my copy of Cycle
I am not a designer and so all that follows is based on experience rather than training.
In the last decade or so I've done a lot of work with designers and brand specialists - both totally frustrating and hugely enjoyable in equal measures.
Regardless of the arguments for and against the rebranding I really wish we (for I am a CTC member) had paid a designer to come up with the new 'we are cycling uk' logo rather than the budget option of getting someone in the office to do knock it up on whatever programme is a bit more creative than Word. :facepalm:
On the off chance we did use a designer - can I get refund?
The whole thing with the "we are" etc is just a rip-off Macmillan Cancer Support (even the main font has similarities) - Macmillan's change of brand a few years ago has undoubtedly worked and is instantly recognisable ... to me CUK doesn't have any chance of recognition or success
.. and the new website looks very juvenile (Facebook's and Twitter's worst design features amalgamated) - is it a Primary School child's attempt at a brand design?
Rob
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I think they had the work experience lad knock summat up with crayons.
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I think they had the work experience lad knock summat up with crayons.
Not possible - there is no "work" to experience at CTC HQ :hand:
Rob
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At the risk of delving deep into psychobabblebrandbollocks...
'We are'....suggests a massive lack of confidence. If you are something then you really don't need to proclaim it - we should know. Is this perhaps in case the organisation is confused with UK Cycling or other variants?
We are an organisation with tradition and heritage. The font and insipid colours do nothing to recognise this pedigree being neither retro or post modern, just crap - you only need to look at 'cycle' to see how confused the whole lack of design is with WE ARE CLYING UK proclaimed in capitals on the same page as the lower case logo. It's almost as if no one thought how it might be used in a range of situations.
Thus endeth todays sermon.
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I've just looked at the CTC site for the first time in ages. It's not just a rebranding is it? To me, it looks like a repositioning too.
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RE: Cover of the latest edition of 'cycle':
variety of ages: tick
helmet / non-helmet: tick
variety of machines: tick
group cycling / solo cycling: tick
men and women: tick
Hmmm. Why do I feel that the cover montage is trying to represent a cross-section of something... could it be the UK? But wait..."Cycling UK", why do I feel you are missing a huge demographic of the UK... hmmm. Now what could it be? ??? [/mock-puzzlement]
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Are all the people pink?
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Are all the people pink?
There is a token non-pink person. Plus a token wheelchair user. Is this cover representative of cyclists in the UK? In London? Is cycling a purely white middle class activity? Or is cycling UK missing a demographic... perhaps they ought to have had a photo of someone on a £50 bike riding on the hard shoulder of a dual carriageway against the flow of traffic, at night, without lights - that would be more representative of 'everyday cycling' in some parts of the UK.
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Four grown men seated on BMXs riding the on the wrong side of the road at night with no lights whilst under the influence of Substances.
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Four grown men seated on BMXs riding the on the wrong side of the road at night with no lights whilst under the influence of Substances.
now that's Audacious!
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Are all the people pink?
There is a token non-pink person.
Ranty CTC-critic: "I want to criticise CTC for something!!! What is the picture of?? "
They cant win with you lot, can they? ::-)
p.s. Graeme, there is a small child riding on the right. With no lights helmet or Hi-Viz, and not really looking where she's going.
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Graeme, there is a small child riding on the right. With no lights helmet or Hi-Viz, and not really looking where she's going.
Kids... coming over here taking our jobs!
;D
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Are all the people pink?
There is a token non-pink person.
Ranty CTC-critic: "I want to criticise CTC for something!!! What is the picture of?? "
They cant win with you lot, can they? ::-)
p.s. Graeme, there is a small child riding on the right. With no lights helmet or Hi-Viz, and not really looking where she's going.
Not correct, Matt. She's looking at the camera and that's where she's going, right on to the cover! :D
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One thing that strikes me in all the fuss about CTC abandoning touring and tourists is that every issue of Cycle since December/January 2011/12 (the oldest I've got) does feature at least one article encouraging people to go out and enjoy touring by cycle.
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Oh and the latest issue has a review of... saddlebags. Including one each from Carradice and Brooks. You can't get much more oldskule, traditional and luggage-lugging than that.
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CUK! A ray of sunshine on an otherwise dull day.
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Having just looked at the website, and from someone who has no emotional attachment to the past so far as CTC is concerned, I can't really see what all the fuss is about regarding the change. If I were new to cycling and looking for an organisation that will look after my interests, then why not? I facilitate inputs on change at a local university and always have fun using real life examples. This could be another!
Perhaps they realise there is a big market for those that do not wish to go touring aka 1950s style and those who do not wish to race (BC and CTT for them) and times are changing, so why not seek to attract the large number of cyclists that fall between the two examples quoted?
Forum looks just as boring and staid as it always did!
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I watched this video statement (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbixI0aMuIM) by Paul Tuohy and couldn’t understand the intense reaction to this rebranding. Am I missing something important?
The new logo (typeface, awkward position of the apostrophe, etc.) leaves something to be desired, but so do those of many of the world’s most successful companies. I presume the new brand isn’t aimed at font nerds. It looks friendly and accessible, and that is presumably the point, because all too often cycling clubs look and feel like an old boys’ club.
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Are all the people pink?
There is a token non-pink person. Plus a token wheelchair user. Is this cover representative of cyclists in the UK? In London? Is cycling a purely white middle class activity? Or is cycling UK missing a demographic... perhaps they ought to have had a photo of someone on a £50 bike riding on the hard shoulder of a dual carriageway against the flow of traffic, at night, without lights - that would be more representative of 'everyday cycling' in some parts of the UK.
My bold
Well, based on the average audax, what do you think? Based on the average BC or CTT event, what do you think? Based on pictures from amateur and professional cycling teams, what do you think? Based on the vast majority of cycling magazines I browse, what do you think?
Compared to football, athletics, what do you think?
An item that lifted my spirits:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/features/magazine-35663890/35663890 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/features/magazine-35663890/35663890)
Different cultures really missing in the vast majority of cycling 'events'. Hopefully that will change and cycling will represent the demographic.
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..... It looks friendly and accessible, and that is presumably the point, because all too often cycling clubs look and feel like an old boys’ club.
Quite, and the 'male, pale and stale' is all too present in certain areas. Now remind me of the AUK figures regarding male/female ratio and average age! And if opinions on the rebranding of the CTC is anything to go by, then perhaps 'stale' might also apply regards attitude to change!
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Are all the people pink?
There is a token non-pink person. Plus a token wheelchair user. Is this cover representative of cyclists in the UK? In London? Is cycling a purely white middle class activity? Or is cycling UK missing a demographic... perhaps they ought to have had a photo of someone on a £50 bike riding on the hard shoulder of a dual carriageway against the flow of traffic, at night, without lights - that would be more representative of 'everyday cycling' in some parts of the UK.
My bold
Well, based on the average audax, what do you think? Based on the average BC or CTT event, what do you think? Based on pictures from amateur and professional cycling teams, what do you think? Based on the vast majority of cycling magazines I browse, what do you think?
Compared to football, athletics, what do you think?
An item that lifted my spirits:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/features/magazine-35663890/35663890 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/features/magazine-35663890/35663890)
Different cultures really missing in the vast majority of cycling 'events'. Hopefully that will change and cycling will represent the demographic.
Well, based on the cover of the current Cycle magazine, they're still representing or hoping to represent "cyclists" rather than "people who would like to use a bike to get around". But I suppose it's not supprising that those are the photos they have.
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I watched this video statement (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbixI0aMuIM) by Paul Tuohy and couldn’t understand the intense reaction to this rebranding. Am I missing something important?
The new logo (typeface, awkward position of the apostrophe, etc.) leaves something to be desired, but so do those of many of the world’s most successful companies. I presume the new brand isn’t aimed at font nerds. It looks friendly and accessible, and that is presumably the point, because all too often cycling clubs look and feel like an old boys’ club.
Font aside (and it is a bit naff!), I don't really have a problem with the identity change. The CTC has itself changed a hell of a lot over the last few years, and much of that change has offended the old men who had hoped it would never change. We had the arguments about the charity thing at the time, but it went ahead, for better or worse. If Regulator and Philip Benstead were to be believed, the current management make Putin, Messi and the Icelandic President look like amateurs, but the membership that remained are presumably pretty happy with how it's going - or, like me, don't really give a shit. The magazine has continued to be pretty good, and the local groups are whatever their members make them, so the shenanigans at HQ are probably of little interest.
The fact is that the CTC as represented by the riding groups is a bit of an old boy's club. There's nothing wrong with that, per se, but it's not marketed as a cycling club exclusively for Carradice-equipped gentlemen of a certain age and hue. It's supposed, and claims, to be for all who cycle, and that gives it a responsibility to make sure it appeals to as many as possible. So, when I say the old CTC has gone (as I did in an earlier post), I'm not exactly filled with regret. I just wish they went about their changes with a little more thought and a lot more flair.
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Are all the people pink?
There is a token non-pink person. Plus a token wheelchair user. Is this cover representative of cyclists in the UK? In London? Is cycling a purely white middle class activity? Or is cycling UK missing a demographic... perhaps they ought to have had a photo of someone on a £50 bike riding on the hard shoulder of a dual carriageway against the flow of traffic, at night, without lights - that would be more representative of 'everyday cycling' in some parts of the UK.
My bold
Well, based on the average audax, what do you think? Based on the average BC or CTT event, what do you think? Based on pictures from amateur and professional cycling teams, what do you think? Based on the vast majority of cycling magazines I browse, what do you think?
Compared to football, athletics, what do you think?
An item that lifted my spirits:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/features/magazine-35663890/35663890 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/features/magazine-35663890/35663890)
Different cultures really missing in the vast majority of cycling 'events'. Hopefully that will change and cycling will represent the demographic.
That was a nice BBC feature, and I've read of investment in African cycling teams too. I think there are people who care working to share cycling across all ethnicities, ages, gender and financial means - and this lifts my spirits.
What sparked this thought process was the move from 'cycle touring' to 'everyday cycling'. The focus moves from promoting great touring experiences to encouraging everyone to cycle, so I found myself cynically looking at the cover and wondering why - given the effort to make the cover look inclusive - there was a failure to represent the genuine demographic spread of the UK population.
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<snip>
.... there was a failure to represent the genuine demographic spread of the UK population.
Thats a beautiful thought. But:
How do you propose they do this?
An exact proportion of male/female (this would require pictures of over 60million riders)?
And what about other segmentation - should they only use riders whose age/ethnicity/gender/sexuality/religion are all readily apparent from their picture?
should every "inclusive" group have a Lt Uhuru in every picture??
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<snip>
.... there was a failure to represent the genuine demographic spread of the UK population.
Thats a beautiful thought. But:
How do you propose they do this?
An exact proportion of male/female (this would require pictures of over 60million riders)?
And what about other segmentation - should they only use riders whose age/ethnicity/gender/sexuality/religion are all readily apparent from their picture?
should every "inclusive" group have a Lt Uhuru in every picture??
Okay, okay, I was over-reaching. But perhaps a little more effort from the team - perhaps a sign that this is even a relevant thought process.
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CUKold CTC :(
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Y'know, as someone who's trying to encourage the people on our charity ride to join a cycling organisation, I do think that UK Cycling seems a more accessible name than the Cyclists Touring Club.
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Y'know, as someone who's trying to encourage the people on our charity ride to join a cycling organisation, I do think that UK Cycling seems a more accessible name than the Cyclists Touring Club.
+1
should every "inclusive" group have a Lt Uhuru in every picture??
Never even knew she was a cyclist!
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The fact is that the CTC as represented by the riding groups is a bit of an old boy's club. There's nothing wrong with that, per se, but it's not marketed as a cycling club exclusively for Carradice-equipped gentlemen of a certain age and hue. It's supposed, and claims, to be for all who cycle, and that gives it a responsibility to make sure it appeals to as many as possible. So, when I say the old CTC has gone (as I did in an earlier post), I'm not exactly filled with regret. I just wish they went about their changes with a little more thought and a lot more flair.
Blimey, you're asking too much. This is Cub Scouts on wheels.
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It's conceivable that a clever stroke has been pulled by allowing local groups (the old men who want to live in a Patterson drawing) to call themselves "Little Bellend CTC - Part of Cycling UK" - this allows the reactionary old guard to beleive nothing has really changed, while letting the bright young things get on with collecting grant money and wondering how to
fritter it away spend it.
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I think there is nothing wrong with the new direction and it is actually closer to what I would want as a cycling organisation. I do like reading about the tours and the old days and so on but that still seems to be there for now. Also think the new website looks fine.
But.
That logo!! Did they (as in, we, the members) pay for that? How much did they pay? It really is shite. As someone who works in page layout now and again, it is really quite painful to look at. My inner layout editor flinched at the sight!
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The logo is graphically weak (I can see what was attempted with alignment, warm friendly font, etc., but the end result looks a bit school-fair to me) but the apostrophe bothers me more. Why is it not “The cyclist’s champion”? Does anyone else think this grammar is awkward for a slogan?
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It's conceivable that a clever stroke has been pulled by allowing local groups (the old men who want to live in a Patterson drawing) to call themselves "Little Bellend CTC - Part of Cycling UK" - this allows the reactionary old guard to beleive nothing has really changed, while letting the bright young things get on with collecting grant money and wondering how to fritter it away spend it.
;D +1
I think there is nothing wrong with the new direction and it is actually closer to what I would want as a cycling organisation. I do like reading about the tours and the old days and so on but that still seems to be there for now. Also think the new website looks fine.
But.
That logo!! Did they (as in, we, the members) pay for that? How much did they pay? It really is shite. As someone who works in page layout now and again, it is really quite painful to look at. My inner layout editor flinched at the sight!
+1 As someone who has been eternally grateful for getting thrown out of Art Skool in 1972 - in case I ended up as a "Graphic Designer" producing bollox like this
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It is more a wordmark or logotype than a true logo. I think it would be helpful if detractors stated precisely why they disliked it.
I’ll start: I dislike it because anything that saccharine must be bitter on the inside. The font is too roly-poly to be taken seriously.
However, I like the alignment of “UK” under the “n” and “we are” sitting on “cyc” (though greater visual harmony would be achieved if the space (kerning) between “c” and “l” of “cycling” were extended).
(Off topic: I wish I had thought of using Eggleston’s trike for my profile picture. Have you seen Michael Almereyda’s documentary, William Eggleston in the Real World (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVENehgpsFQ)? If not, rectify that at the first opportunity!)
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I'm not a fan. I don't like the "We are..." part and the new name is just too vague (I tried a Google search for Cycling UK, and the website was nowhere near the top of the results). Quite glad I didn't bother renewing my CTC membership last year now, even if my decision to go with BC instead was mainly down to the CRC discount...
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It's a shame they didn't time in their social media changeover with the brand swap as well.
At least they're trying. And I'm in favour of making cycling appear attractive to a broad demographic.
The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost; for none now live who remember it.
;)
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The name may sound more friendly than CTC / Cyclists['] Touring Club but they could surely have come up with something a bit more characterful. Cycling UK and British Cycling both sound rather like quangos. (I suppose they both are... )
The logo, logotype, slogan, whatever you want to call it, just exacerbates that anodyneness. I think Samuel D's comment above is the nearest I've heard to anyone liking it, no matter what they think of the general rebranding idea. But I do think the apostrophe is not in the wrong place. I'm not sure if it's necessary at all (and it might have been better to find another phrase to express the same idea without any sporting ambiguity – maybe "standing up for cycling") but they want to be the champion of all cyclists, so it has to be Cyclists' Champion not Cyclist's Champion.
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They would have been far better leaving the slogan (and the "We are") off all together. The slogan would work perfectly well without cluttering the logo.
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I assume the minimal, base logo is simply 'Cycling UK', and the "we are... the cyclists' champion" could be left off. They probably also have 'options' on the font/colours.
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Y'know, as someone who's trying to encourage the people on our charity ride to join a cycling organisation, I do think that UK Cycling seems a more accessible name than the Cyclists Touring Club.
+1
should every "inclusive" group have a Lt Uhuru in every picture??
Never even knew she was a cyclist!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/33158682@N06/3871708617/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/33158682@N06/3871708617/)
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I assume the minimal, base logo is simply 'Cycling UK', and the "we are... the cyclists' champion" could be left off. They probably also have 'options' on the font/colours.
According to the style guide, the "We are" is permanent, and the slogan only gets removed if the logo is printed below a certain size.
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...
should every "inclusive" group have a Lt Uhuru in every picture??
Never even knew she was a cyclist!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/33158682@N06/3871708617/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/33158682@N06/3871708617/)
<applauds>
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It is more a wordmark or logotype than a true logo. I think it would be helpful if detractors stated precisely why they disliked it.
Fair enough comment :-)
Personally:
I don't like the colours, they are fairly weak and washed-out, paler versions of the colours used in the old logo. The orange in particular looks like the kind of shade that never prints out correctly.
The font is too blobby and looks like one that would be used in a primary school textbook. It's, dare I say it, a little bit Comic Sans.
The 'we are' has been nicked from Macmillan nurses, hasn't it? I'm surprised they are allowed to use it TBH. I don't like the phrase as used by Macmillan, actually - no we aren't Macmillan, I'm not a nurse, YOU are! It actually makes more sense in the CTC context but I still don't like it.
I don't like the way 'CTC' is not mentioned anywhere, surely a transitional period where both logos are used would be helpful (to use a cancer charity again, Breakthrough changed it's name recently but had both names on their correspondence for the whole of last year).
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It is more a wordmark or logotype than a true logo. I think it would be helpful if detractors stated precisely why they disliked it.
Fair enough comment :-)
Personally:
I don't like the colours, they are fairly weak and washed-out, paler versions of the colours used in the old logo. The orange in particular looks like the kind of shade that never prints out correctly.
The font is too blobby and looks like one that would be used in a primary school textbook. It's, dare I say it, a little bit Comic Sans.
The 'we are' has been nicked from Macmillan nurses, hasn't it? I'm surprised they are allowed to use it TBH. I don't like the phrase as used by Macmillan, actually - no we aren't Macmillan, I'm not a nurse, YOU are! It actually makes more sense in the CTC context but I still don't like it.
I don't like the way 'CTC' is not mentioned anywhere, surely a transitional period where both logos are used would be helpful (to use a cancer charity again, Breakthrough changed it's name recently but had both names on their correspondence for the whole of last year).
With a vested interest here ... as a Macmillan fundraiser :thumbsup: and a "cancer customer" (although now hopefully mended) :(
Macmillan is not just "nurses" - it's Macmillan Cancer Support ... and support in all manner of ways you perhaps wouldn't think of .... did you know that they help people with costs of getting to hospital for treatment as just one example. The nurses are still a big part ... and part of the "We are .... " strapline
I would agree totally that the "we are cycling" and the whole logo, style, positioning are total crap.
Rob
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Having looked at it again, perhaps the orange lettering could be applied to the 'we are' and 'The cyclists' champion' and the blue could be applied to 'Cycling' and 'UK'. Colour coding letters/words does raise an expectation.
However, if you are going to make change then make change and don't just tinker around the edges. The change is for the future of cycling and not languishing in the past. Of course some folk will not like it. You either spend endless amounts of time and resources discussing maters with them, or realise they will wish things to revert back to what they were or have no change at all. In such circumstances, organisations usually move forward with or without those who do not welcome change.
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The CTC seem to want to risk losing a large proportion of their current membership in the hope of getting a larger number of new members.
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The CTC seem to want to risk losing a large proportion of their current membership in the hope of getting a larger number of new members.
As I alluded to in post #70, I think they've done a Sustrans: Playing the charitable organisation game to the best of their ability, with little regard for the grassroots membership, except where they're useful as a source of publicity material. They don't *need* large numbers of members. They need to look good on funding bids.
This tends to result in mission-creep. So a sustainable transport organisation ends up concentrating on leisure cycling and the urban environment. A cycle touring organisation becomes... I'm not entirely sure. Hopefully a kind of national version of the LCC, I suppose, as most alternatives are irrelevant.
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I've given up my membership of a decade or more. I joined what I thought was a club for people who are passionate about cycle touring and leisure cycling. It turned into something else. All very worthy, but not what I signed up for. There is no CTC any more. It's gone.
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As I alluded to in post #70, I think they've done a Sustrans: Playing the charitable organisation game to the best of their ability, with little regard for the grassroots membership, except where they're useful as a source of publicity material. They don't *need* large numbers of members. They need to look good on funding bids.
Similar to premier league football then. With the obscene amounts of TV rights money the clubs get, the ticket money from fans is almost irrelevant.
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The old CTC membership is largely irrelevant to its assumed 'mission' for the future. The new CEO is quite genuinely, I believe, a cyclist. A utility and recreational cyclist, but not a touring cyclist. I don't think he has any antipathy toward the tourists, but he doesn't see their relevance to what he's trying to do. So he's allowed them to stay, and to continue their regional groups working under the CTC name, but they will become ever more remote from the central charity organisation. While I'm not sure he actually wants them to wither and die, I don't think he cares too much either way. What is important (to him) is that the old fuddy-duddies aren't allowed to upset the move toward being a charity money-generator, with all the concomitant benefits for city career people.
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In that case, fuck him.
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The old CTC membership is largely irrelevant to its assumed 'mission' for the future. The new CEO is quite genuinely, I believe, a cyclist. A utility and recreational cyclist, but not a touring cyclist. I don't think he has any antipathy toward the tourists, but he doesn't see their relevance to what he's trying to do. So he's allowed them to stay, and to continue their regional groups working under the CTC name, but they will become ever more remote from the central charity organisation. While I'm not sure he actually wants them to wither and die, I don't think he cares too much either way. What is important (to him) is that the old fuddy-duddies aren't allowed to upset the move toward being a charity money-generator, with all the concomitant benefits for city career people.
That's probably the best summary I've seen of the current mess. Thanks
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It's funny how some clubs end up going that way.
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Do I sense a YACF 'rebranding' exercise on the say :demon: ;)
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The old CTC membership is largely irrelevant to its assumed 'mission' for the future. The new CEO is quite genuinely, I believe, a cyclist. A utility and recreational cyclist, but not a touring cyclist. I don't think he has any antipathy toward the tourists, but he doesn't see their relevance to what he's trying to do. So he's allowed them to stay, and to continue their regional groups working under the CTC name, but they will become ever more remote from the central charity organisation. While I'm not sure he actually wants them to wither and die, I don't think he cares too much either way. What is important (to him) is that the old fuddy-duddies aren't allowed to upset the move toward being a charity money-generator, with all the concomitant benefits for city career people.
A perceptive analysis.
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The old CTC membership is largely irrelevant to its assumed 'mission' for the future. The new CEO is quite genuinely, I believe, a cyclist. A utility and recreational cyclist, but not a touring cyclist. I don't think he has any antipathy toward the tourists, but he doesn't see their relevance to what he's trying to do. So he's allowed them to stay, and to continue their regional groups working under the CTC name, but they will become ever more remote from the central charity organisation. While I'm not sure he actually wants them to wither and die, I don't think he cares too much either way. What is important (to him) is that the old fuddy-duddies aren't allowed to upset the move toward being a charity money-generator, with all the concomitant benefits for city career people.
What having the old CTC membership base does give him though is a mandate to say that he represents ~60,000 cyclists. Even if their membership subscriptions provide no net financial net benefit to the organisation, if the members leave and potentially join other cycling organisations instead there will be less reason for it to receive money and less reason for its voice to be heard.
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It does rather feel that the 'club' has been hi-jacked by (probably well meaning) people who see that the greater cause is best served by sacrificing a bit of goodwill and tradition on the way.
Will that be for the best for cycling in the UK ? Hard to tell from here.
I reckon the 60,000 certainly provides the critical mass required, and without them I imagine that the desired end product would never have been achievable.
Ultimately, I think this new 'thing' (however it ends up) will be for the best, I just don't like the way that it has been done.
And the logo and graphics and name are all crap.
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What having the old CTC membership base does give him though is a mandate to say that he represents ~60,000 cyclists. Even if their membership subscriptions provide no net financial net benefit to the organisation, if the members leave and potentially join other cycling organisations instead there will be less reason for it to receive money and less reason for its voice to be heard.
Which may be balanced by attracting new members that are not quite as interested in the touring side of CTC and are looking for an organisation that will be a 'champion' for the everyday cyclist. I think this is more than just a rebranding exercise, it is a repositioning in the market exercise.
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And the logo and graphics and name are all crap.
Which is all a matter of opinion and I don't think folk join something based on a logo alone; content might have something to do with decision. Interesting to look at all the different 'logos' on the headers of newspapers, quite a range and nicely summarised here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-35993642 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-35993642)
Folk generally make a decision on content and not a logo/header. Perhaps that will be the case for Cycling UK. Time will tell.
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The old CTC membership is largely irrelevant to its assumed 'mission' for the future. The new CEO is quite genuinely, I believe, a cyclist. A utility and recreational cyclist, but not a touring cyclist. I don't think he has any antipathy toward the tourists, but he doesn't see their relevance to what he's trying to do. So he's allowed them to stay, and to continue their regional groups working under the CTC name, but they will become ever more remote from the central charity organisation. While I'm not sure he actually wants them to wither and die, I don't think he cares too much either way. What is important (to him) is that the old fuddy-duddies aren't allowed to upset the move toward being a charity money-generator, with all the concomitant benefits for city career people.
What having the old CTC membership base does give him though is a mandate to say that he represents ~60,000 cyclists. Even if their membership subscriptions provide no net financial net benefit to the organisation, if the members leave and potentially join other cycling organisations instead there will be less reason for it to receive money and less reason for its voice to be heard.
Actually it doesn't. CTC doesn't have 60,000 members. The 60,000 figures is an amalgamation of all sorts of numbers, and includes people who aren't actually members but have simply been involved in a CTC charitable activity at some time. CTC HQ have become somewhat flexible friends with truth.
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I don't think the 60,000 (or whatever) membership is particularly relevant to the eventual aim just at this moment. Certainly not the proportion represented by the core CTC tourists, anyway. I'm sure Veloman is right; this is far more than a rebranding. Ways will be found to boost the overall number of members, if that number is important to the primary goal of generating money, noise and CVs - which I assume it is, as the contribution from government is presumably based on some kind of proportional arrangement.
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Here's what I've been doing this week:...standing in an area of deprivation and high numbers of ethnic minorities, trying to promote cycling.
Why am I doing it?
1. because I believe that the more 'normal' people (as in non-"keen cyclist" types) we get cycling the better my town will be as there will be less congestion, better health, happier people.
2. because I ride through these areas all the time and the traffic is awful - one way of improving things is to raise the number of cyclists (other people are looking at infrastructure)
3. because I believe the more cycling becomes an everyday occurrence the better things will be for us serious, life-long, 'keen cyclist' types.
4. because I get paid for it (vested interest declared)
So, to my point.....people can sign up to the schemes in three ways: I sign them up on the spot, they phone the office, or they go to the website. Despite all of the interest no one has yet signed up via the website. The website that just happens to have lots of pictures of white, middle class, lycra clad, 'keen cyclists' and lots of cycling jargon on it. who'd have thunk it eh?
So, I can very much see why the CTC has redesigned the website as they have....I don't think that it's perfect but it's going the right way. It still has elements of touring and 'keen-cyclist' leisure riding on it, but there are more normal(ish) ;D everyday people....and even children (cycling for children...na, never catch on, oh hang on...they appear to be mad for it when they are given the right opportunity).
Another interesting parallel occurred. One of the great points of pride of the CTC tradition was that it helped (to a small extent) emancipate women in the 1890s onwards by giving them the freedom to get out on bikes rather than be cooped up in the house all day. I hope that we all agree that this was a GOOD THING and something to be proud of? I was putting together a cycling course for females in a Muslim area, I was amazed at how keen they were to get cycling, then a couple of them commented that there is nothing for women to do in the area apart from house work and looking after kids.....cycling would give them a new freedom.....now this is the real heritage of the CTC that I want to support....
...just a pity that it wasn't a CTC/CUK scheme :-[.
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Here's what I've been doing this week:...standing in an area of deprivation and high numbers of ethnic minorities, trying to promote cycling.
Why am I doing it?
1. because I believe that the more 'normal' people (as in non-"keen cyclist" types) we get cycling the better my town will be as there will be less congestion, better health, happier people.
2. because I ride through these areas all the time and the traffic is awful - one way of improving things is to raise the number of cyclists (other people are looking at infrastructure)
3. because I believe the more cycling becomes an everyday occurrence the better things will be for us serious, life-long, 'keen cyclist' types.
4. because I get paid for it (vested interest declared)
So, to my point.....people can sign up to the schemes in three ways: I sign them up on the spot, they phone the office, or they go to the website. Despite all of the interest no one has yet signed up via the website. The website that just happens to have lots of pictures of white, middle class, lycra clad, 'keen cyclists' and lots of cycling jargon on it. who'd have thunk it eh?
So, I can very much see why the CTC has redesigned the website as they have....I don't think that it's perfect but it's going the right way. It still has elements of touring and 'keen-cyclist' leisure riding on it, but there are more normal(ish) ;D everyday people....and even children (cycling for children...na, never catch on, oh hang on...they appear to be mad for it when they are given the right opportunity).
Another interesting parallel occurred. One of the great points of pride of the CTC tradition was that it helped (to a small extent) emancipate women in the 1890s onwards by giving them the freedom to get out on bikes rather than be cooped up in the house all day. I hope that we all agree that this was a GOOD THING and something to be proud of? I was putting together a cycling course for females in a Muslim area, I was amazed at how keen they were to get cycling, then a couple of them commented that there is nothing for women to do in the area apart from house work and looking after kids.....cycling would give them a new freedom.....now this is the real heritage of the CTC that I want to support....
...just a pity that it wasn't a CTC/CUK scheme :-[.
Absolutely brilliant! What is the vested interest?
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Although perhaps a conversation about how CTC or cycling UK could promote cycling to everyone in the UK (and how to depict that on their website and magazine) ought to be a separate thread to a conversation about whether the logo is any good or not. Obviously the logo is a hot topic - really important etc. So not appropriate to dilute it with talk of promoting cycling.
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Obviously the logo is a hot topic - really important etc. So not appropriate to dilute it with talk of promoting cycling.
;D
(An excellent summary of the current fuss.)
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TBH I think it's more a case of some people wanting a club that supports their hobby and others wanting to promote cycling. I think many people in the CTC quite reasonably decided that the latter was the best way to achieve the former, which is where this evolution came from. Unfortunately, that isn't to everyone's taste, particularly those who see their club evaporating in a puff of brand-awareness.
The logo being shit is a side-issue, but it's new (indeed, you could say the whole re-branding seemed to come out of nowhere) and hasn't already been discussed to death.
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I've been trying to remember exactly how I decided to become a member of the CTC. The one thing I'm certain of is that it didn't involve cycle touring.
I must have thought it was a 'good idea' from reading on one of this forum's predecessors and would have been only for the insurance.
If I'd thought at the time that the club was primarily for tourists I wouldn't have considered it but might have asked for advice on a different way of getting the insurance. And that was back in 2006. So the emphasis has been changing for some time.
Of course, change, even with the best intentions, will always be difficult for some, particularly when the change in emphasis is away from one's own particular interests.
There was a not dissimilar situation with the English Folk Dance and Song Society about thirty years ago. They got rid of their area offices, county organisations and associated clubs which caused an uproar amongst the members of said organisations and clubs, but it settled down fairly quickly and the central organisation is now far healthier and doing far more good work than it did before.
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Had a quick chat with cycling UK via their facebook page. They were really responsive. I asked about their diversity policy and the absence of a representative set of stock photographs. They sent me a really friendly reply:
Hi Graeme,
Saw your comment on our wall and then here as well. It's a fair point you raise, and one that we are always considering how best to address in our comms. As you've noted there is more work to do, and just in terms of imagery we are commissioning photographers to help us build a more representational portrait of the UK we live in today.
It's in our work though that I believe we can defend our record a bit better than in the imagery we are currently using. We are active across the country already in bringing cycling to people of all ages, backgrounds and abilities through our projects as you can see here: https://www.cyclinguk.org/community-outreach
Still our work is by no means done, and as Cycling UK we are keen to bring the gift of cycling to everyone - not just one demographic.
Hope this answers some of your questions, but if you'd like to have a chat with someone here please feel free to give us a call.
All the best,
Cycling UK
I'm encouraged, and given this I'm in favour of the rebranding of CTC to cycling UK. It seems to have expanded their thinking processes.
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What is the vested interest?
That I get paid to get non-cyclists cycling rather than to support those who have been happily cycling for years, thus a cynic might suggest that I'm semi-supporting a move that could potentially open up new job opportunities for me. But on the other hand, as the CTC are trying to move into my town to do community cycling a double-cynic might suggest that they will be my competition ;D
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What is the vested interest?
That I get paid to get non-cyclists cycling rather than to support those who have been happily cycling for years, thus a cynic might suggest that I'm semi-supporting a move that could potentially open up new job opportunities for me. But on the other hand, as the CTC are trying to move into my town to do community cycling a double-cynic might suggest that they will be my competition ;D
Nah - you're both competing against ignorance to improve cycling accessibility and awareness. You're on the same side. Good luck and God bless Si.
:thumbsup:
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Increasingly, CTC and Sustrans have been chasing the same pots of Government money to do the same things. Seeing as they're both charities promoting cycling, perhaps the next thing will be a merger?
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That seems a very logical next step.
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Oh noes, what will the merged entity be called? Sustainable Transport UK? ( :D)
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Oh noes, what will the merged entity be called? Sustainable Transport UK? ( :D)
"We are Sustainable Transport UK breaking down barriers"
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Oh noes, what will the merged entity be called? Sustainable Transport UK? ( :D)
STUK? Seems appropriate!
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We should remember that British cycling is also moving into the same area.
In reality, if a merger were to really take place the most fitting name might be: "Sport England Community Cycling", as that's where they are looking for the funding these days (although not sure about Wales, Scotland, etc). Of course, Sport England also needs a rebrand as this has nothing to do with sport.
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Cycling UK would appear to cover every option regards to the title.
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Does
"British"
cover a greater area and/or population than
"UK" ???
<dons pedantry-proof vest>.
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Does
"British"
cover a greater area and/or population than
"UK" ???
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland vs British Isles?
<dons pedantry-proof vest>.
May I borrow it?
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Great Britain is the main chunk of the British Isles. The British Isles is that plus all the bits around the edge, including the island of Ireland. Those are geographical terms (at least that's how my Geog teacher explained it).
Caused a hell of an argument with an Irish friend of mine one time though.
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The Guardian style guide has the following
Britain, UK
These terms are synonymous: Britain is the official short form of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Used as adjectives, therefore, British and UK mean the same. Great Britain, however, refers only to England, Wales and Scotland. Take care not to write Britain when you might mean England and Wales, or just England – for example when referring to the education system. See Scotland
and
British Isles
A geographical term taken to mean Great Britain, Ireland and some or all of the adjacent islands such as Orkney, Shetland and the Isle of Man. The phrase is best avoided, given its (understandable) unpopularity in the Irish Republic. Alternatives adopted by some publications are British and Irish Isles or simply Britain and Ireland
http://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-b (http://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-b)
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<dons pedantry-proof vest>.
May I borrow it?
I think I shall be needing it for a few posts yet ...
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- "UK" is a political entity.
- "BRITAIN" is a State of mind.
HTH HAND
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Lots of other organisations have witnessed the British/UK dilemma. For example the British Mountaineering Council (BMC) which is only really England and Wales. Does AUK cover NI?
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The logo being shit is a side-issue, but it's new (indeed, you could say the whole re-branding seemed to come out of nowhere) and hasn't already been discussed to death.
Hardly out of nowhere. The whole intention was announced in Cycle two years ago although the process seems to have had a number of false starts. National Cycling Association seems to have been the initial proposal for a new name.
Motion:Agree in principle to a trading name change. Take the necessary action to register and protect the name of National Cycling Association. To set up a new working group to carry out further work to look at the implementation and wider brand issues as well as any name change. To bring a report back to Council in April for approval.Proposed by: Barry Flood Seconded by: Philip BensteadVote of above Motion:In favour = 10 Against = 3 Abstained = 2 Motion Carried
Minutes of Council Meeting of 18 Jan 2014 (https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/default/files/ctcnationalcouncil18january2014-minutes.pdf)
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Motion:Agree in principle to a trading name change. Take the necessary action to register and protect the name of National Cycling Association. To set up a new working group to carry out further work to look at the implementation and wider brand issues as well as any name change. To bring a report back to Council in April for approval.Proposed by: Barry Flood Seconded by: Philip Benstead Vote of above Motion:In favour = 10 Against = 3 Abstained = 2 Motion Carried
I wasn't expecting to see that. I wonder what changed his mind.
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I wasn't expecting to see that. I wonder what changed his mind.
Bet you've forgotten this too. 7,500 members responded.
Help shape CTC's future - have your say
CTC is beginning a consultation process to consider refreshing our brand. This may mean a new way of describing ourselves and our services, a new look and feel, a new way of using our name - or even a new name altogether.
We want to hear the views of as many of our members and supporters as possible about this, so we'd be very grateful if you would take part in a short survey.
It will take just a few minutes and will help us build on 135 years of work to create an even better future for cyclists and CTC.
Many thanks.
Gordon Seabright
Chief Executive, CTC
15 August 2013
https://web.archive.org/web/20140914090044/http://www.ctc.org.uk/news/help-shape-ctcs-future-have-your-say
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With the recent June/July Cycle there's a poll to reverse the rebranding. On one level I'm not bothered really, though they could lose the "we are" from the logo...
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Unfortunately changing the logo and name is not an option. It's either accept it or reject it. I see they say the 'more inclusive' name helped them get gift aid.
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In January the new lot who run the CTC decided that it is no longer to be called the Cyclists' Touring Club or CTC, but instead have "rebranded" it "Cycling UK".
I think this is a lot of utter bollocks. Fortunately, some members started a petition that has allowed for a poll of all members to be taken on whether the new name should stand or the old one be reinstated. I have voted in favour of staying as the Cyclists' Touring Club.
If you are a CTC member you can register your vote at www.ersvotes.com/cyclingukpoll.
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Perhaps we should merge the three threads into one? I'm not going to choose which one, mind.
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=96003.0
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=97760.0
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You need a security code that is sent to you by post - I haven't received one (yet?)
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You need a security code that is sent to you by post - I haven't received one (yet?)
neither have I, has anyone got one, or is the polling to close 'before' the codes arrive. :demon:
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I received the magazine in the post today.
I've just been out to the recycling bin.
My security code part 1 and part 2 are on one of the 'extra' bits of paper / advertising that come with the magazine.
In this case, they were an addition to the sheet which carries my name and address - something which inevitably ends up in the bin as in 'why would I want this?'.
Draw your own conclusions.
Deadline for voting is 09:00am Friday July 8th.
Oh dear.
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My magazine arrived this morning. I had my attention drawn to the piece of paper by a post in the SE Group (Essex) bit of Basefook.
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I should receive that then. I've stopped my direct debit for membership renewal in response to current events, but my current membership is valid until mid July.
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Cycle mag arrived yesterday, nearly threw away the the voting details with the packaging !
Tried to vote online on my PC and Chromebook but error message coming up every time I attempt to log in to ers.
Nothings easy is it, wasn't impressed with the subtle blackmail regarding Gift Aid,
Colin
p.s. lovely sunny bank holiday here in Blackpool :)
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Cycle mag arrived yesterday...........
........... wasn't impressed with the subtle blackmail regarding Gift Aid,
Colin
I agree with that, but it's what happens when a Charity becomes a business. Remember the leave us something in you're will letters, expect more of the same. As for them selling your name or email address, many of us were members before that type of marketing was invented, there wasn't even a box to untick. Maybe I'm scaremongering, I've got a watch this space feeling.
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And now we vote .... ::-)
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I let my membership lapse in January, but still got a begging email:
"I’m aware that you are no longer a member and we’d love to welcome you back, but you could still Gift Aid the membership fee from when you were a member. "
I took the time to "unsubscribe", a potentially dangerous act in itself unless they really know their cyber security. There is a whole email preference for "Gift Aid".
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Freepost for the vote.
But a normal address for the gift aid. Talk about dumb. Every one who sends back the giftaid form will make CUK a lot more than the postage costs. I suspect a lot of people just won't get round to it, because they simply don't have a stamp available.
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And now we vote .... ::-)
I would urge everyone to vote, no matter what your view is.
If there is a small turnout then all that does is it gives the powers that be the nod that it's membership doesn't give a stuff and it gives them a carte-blanche approval to do what they like. As I said a couple of posts ago Charity is now big business and I think this particular war was lost a while ago.
This might be the last hurrah of the individual member before corporate giants take complete control. Use it.
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Potentially the antidote to CUK ...... https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=95915.0 or www.touringcyclistclub.org.uk
An update on positive progress is being issued to everyone that responded to the "Interested" request ( >500 at the moment) on 1 June 2016.
Rob
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Do we really need this?
We need a national body to promote cycling that's seperate and disinct from the body that manages it as a sport.
That has always been the role and strength of the CTC( Cycle).
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Just followed the link to vote on-line, and got this message:
Your connection is not secure. The owner of www.ersvotes.com has configured their website improperly. To protect your information from being stolen, Firefox has not connected to this website.
:facepalm:
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It worked well for me, with no security issues and I was able to vote to confirm Council's resolution to rebrand.
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It appears that in a small way the CTC have realised the error of their ways; they have changed the wording on the logo from "The cyclist's champion" to "The cyclists' champion"!
Now, about the rest of the rebranding..... Oh, and the charity conversion.....
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I voted without issue, other than the lack of a "well, okay, but drop the 'we are' and use a better font" option.
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I noticed the poll form as soon as I opened the envelope. I put the voting form to one side, the better to contemplate my decision. Just this minute I was looking for it and could not find it in any of the likely places (desk, inside the magazine, recycling, kitchen bin... ) and resigned myself to having absent mindedly thrown it out. But then I found it on some bookshelves, face down, with a roundabout doodled on the back. I'd drawn that to explain something to my wife, who is not a Cyclist but has recently started riding a bike again for leisure and utility trips and had had a question about lanes and priority and stuff. I'm sure there's a lesson in there somewhere but I can't drag it out. Anyway, so I have till Friday – well, Thursday evening really, but as I should be out then (on other cycling business ::-)), let's say Thursday afternoon – to make up my mind. Which I might not make up, in fact.
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It appears that in a small way the CTC have realised the error of their ways; they have changed the wording on the logo from "The cyclist's champion" to "The cyclists' champion"!
I thought it was always like that. “The cyclist’s champion” is the way it should be.
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It could be argued either way in my view.
I'm still failing to give much of a shit about any of this. Maybe it's because I'm new :-)
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It seems to me that they could get over many of the possible problems by making CTC a subset of CUK, maintaining continuity with history, DAs (member groups) and touring interests. This leave the rest of CUK to cover campaigning, commuting etc.
I've been a member since 1968 and as of a few years ago a life member.
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The entire implication of the resolutions is not clear. Perhaps CUK and Philip Benstead aren't sure themselves. If "Council's resolution to rebrand" is confirmed, does that imply the present name, wording and logo are "passed"? If the resolution is rescinded, does that reject only the current name etc or and and all rebranding?
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I didn't join CTC because I was a cycle tourist. I wasn't and I'm still not. I joined in spite of that. Had there been a different cycling organisation offering benefits to me I'd probably have joined it. There wasn't.
On balance, cycling UK sounds more inclusive than cyclists touring club. My kids are more likely to join it too.
As long as it does the right things, what they call it is of secondary importance to me, though I accept that it is of primary importance to them.
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The entire implication of the resolutions is not clear. Perhaps CUK and Philip Benstead aren't sure themselves. If "Council's resolution to rebrand" is confirmed, does that imply the present name, wording and logo are "passed"? If the resolution is rescinded, does that reject only the current name etc or and and all rebranding?
Read carefully
CYCLISTS’ TOURING CLUB
DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB
We the undersigned members of the Cyclists’ Touring Club (CTC) demand a poll of the whole club ASAP in accordance with Article 11 of the Memorandum of Association of the Cyclists’ Touring Club (as amended by the AGM on 12 May 2012).
We are petitioning the CTC to demand a poll of the whole club so CTC members will have the opportunity to endorse or overturn the motion passed at CTC Council meeting on 23rd January 2016 that agreed to the replacement of the existing branding of “Cyclists` Touring Club or CTC” and associated logo(s) and heritage marks with “CYCLING UK” or another branding name and logo(s)
IMHO I think that is clear.
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Are you interested in the future of the Cyclists’ Touring Club (CTC).
It is my personal opinion the CTC Council has lost touch with the current and potential CTC membership. Instead they are attempting to secure the members from section of the potential / current cycling population that will not engage with any cycling organisations except as a customer not as members.
Customers are all well and good if you want just their money but if the CTC as any future we must get more members to replace our aging committed current membership and not just customers.
At local level we need new members to take on the role of local groups organizers and campaigners.
While at national level we need a new CTC council to replace the current incumbents who appear to lack ability to question and discuss the role and direction of the CTC.
This group will practice free speech - the right to express any opinions without censorship or restraint.
I only ask does the manner to express your view distract the point you are trying to make.
I hope you will join this group to promote a free exchange of ideas so that we can have a influence with in the world of the CTC.
Philip Benstead | FORMER CTC Councillor
Mobile: 0794-980-1698
Email: philipbenstead1@gmail.com
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The wording on the voting form only says "I vote to confirm/rescind Council's resolution to rebrand".
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The wording on the voting form only says "I vote to confirm/rescind Council's resolution to rebrand".
Poor wording on the part of the CTC, I ask for information as to procedure of the poll but with no reply.
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Ah. :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: Just looked at it again and your wording also appears, above the tick boxes. I really should read the whole thing before posting. :-[ :-[ :-[
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It's all bloody smoke & mirrors on the part of CTC's current management. Even if the 'rescind' vote goes through (as I suspect it might, by a small margin), it only means that The Council can put forward a new resolution to rebrand the day after the result is announced - this would of course be anti-democratic, but that doesn't seem to bother the current junta.
While I prefer the heritage aspects of the old name, I can understand why a more inclusive moniker is needed, but what I object to is the way the whole debacle is being conducted by what seem to be self-serving charity careerists with no eye on their members - sorry, supporters.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I'm sure they'd put through a new resolution but perhaps after some sort of consultation. Or at least a bit more thought as to what makes a distinctive name and a non-silly set of initials. (What they really need is perhaps a totally different name, maybe not even mentioning cycling, as when the Pedestrians Association renamed itself Living Streets. Then again, perhaps it's not.)
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I didn't join CTC because I was a cycle tourist. I wasn't and I'm still not. I joined in spite of that. Had there been a different cycling organisation offering benefits to me I'd probably have joined it. There wasn't.
On balance, cycling UK sounds more inclusive than cyclists touring club. My kids are more likely to join it too.
As long as it does the right things, what they call it is of secondary importance to me, though I accept that it is of primary importance to them.
Good post.
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The ERS approach to voting security is bizarre. What's the point in "two part security" when both parts are printed on the same sheet of paper and there is no other info needed to vote?
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There seems to be strong support from those on the campaign mailing list who struggle to get across to council officials that the CTC is not just about a few leisure cyclists. For us the rebrand is a good thing.
Voted (along with all the rest of the family) to support the rebrand. It makes sense.
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Referendum result
May be too early to tell but
How will UK withdraw from the EU affect the CTC/CUK e.g.
Awarding of grants /contracts whose money originate in via the EU?
Will there be any other affect on cycling in the UK or UK citizen cycling in the EU?
Will CTC/CUK leaver ECF https://ecf.com/ ?
If Scotland leavers the UK will they leave the CTC/CUK?
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Given that the CTC started as a Touring Club (that neverless campaigned due to Tourists and Transport(utilty) cyclists needing the same things, and many(most?) Tourists also engaging in utility cycling) it seems dubious for those who claim no interest in Touring think it OK to rename the whole organisation to exclude the word Touring: it already has the separately named CDF, so why not call the Campaigning side Cycling-UK (or something) and leave the headoffice parts (letters/departments/webpages etc) dealing with Touring matters branded as Cyclist Touring Club, thus preserving its heritage and not pointlessly annoying Touring members*?. *an amount of whom are already annoyed by the sudden removal of the Technical and Touring Officer.....
(Member groups can already remain calling themselves CTC/Cyclists Touring Club though I don't know how they could be stopped from so doing....)
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Better vote tonight!
I'm leaning towards voting to confirm resoln to rebrand. I assume this means keep the 'we are cycling UK logo', which I don't really like, but prolly more inclusive than 'CTC'.
If the resolution was rescinded, would there be a subsequent motion to come up with a different 'rebrand' I wonder...
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Thanks for the reminder AO, just voted with 3 hours to spare (I was inclined to agree with you).
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The result was 6,533 to endorse the decision with 3,694 to overturn.
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Official notice: Poll of the Whole Club result
The Poll of members called by ex-Councillor Philip Benstead, and published in the June/July issue of ‘Cycle’ magazine, to endorse or overturn the decision of the Council to adopt the trading name of Cycling UK closed today. The result was 6,533 to endorse the decision with 3,694 to overturn. Chair of Council David Cox said: “Thank you to all who took the time to vote. The Cyclists’ Touring Club continues to be the legal name of the charity but with Cycling UK as our new trading name to reach the broadest audience possible. We are extremely proud of the heritage and achievements of the Cyclists’ Touring Club over the last 138 years. Many of our local Member Groups will continue to run their activities under the name Cyclists’ Touring Club as that best describes what they do. For many of our other initiatives in campaigns, off-road and community cycling projects, the name Cycling UK is less prescriptive when promoting the breadth of activities that they do. But together as cyclists we are driven by the passion and enthusiasm of all our members and supporters who make Cycling UK welcoming to all.”
Total for poll = 10,227 that represents 15.26% of the membership
Total for CTC = 3,694 that represents 5.51% of the membership
Total for CTC = 36.12%
Total for CUK = 6,533 that represents 9.75% of the membership
Total for CUK = 63.87%
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Yup, it's all gone a bit brexit...
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Not sure about Brexit; after all, most people seemed to care one way or another there. The overwhelming message from this "referendum" is a very small number of people care very deeply one way or the other but most people don't give a toss or quite likely even know that there is something there.
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One hopes that all members will have noticed that there was a rebrand and vote going on given the stuff in the mag and the redesign of the mag cover!
But for many I think the questions of concern would have been: is my third party insurance still valid? Are my subs staying more or less the same? Can I still ride with my mates in the MG? If 'yes' then I'm not really bothered what you call it.
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Yup, it's all gone a bit brexit...
...you mean that, despite it supposedly being settled, we still haven't heard the end of it? ;D
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I've read the entire thread. What are folks' opinions about LCC in comparison to CTC of which I am a member? To my mind they are not much different. (I only joined them in 2009 due to third-party insurance and the fact they have 'London' in their name.)
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Official notice: Poll of the Whole Club result
The Poll of members called by ex-Councillor Philip Benstead, and published in the June/July issue of ‘Cycle’ magazine, to endorse or overturn the decision of the Council to adopt the trading name of Cycling UK closed today. The result was 6,533 to endorse the decision with 3,694 to overturn. Chair of Council David Cox said: “Thank you to all who took the time to vote. The Cyclists’ Touring Club continues to be the legal name of the charity but with Cycling UK as our new trading name to reach the broadest audience possible. We are extremely proud of the heritage and achievements of the Cyclists’ Touring Club over the last 138 years. Many of our local Member Groups will continue to run their activities under the name Cyclists’ Touring Club as that best describes what they do. For many of our other initiatives in campaigns, off-road and community cycling projects, the name Cycling UK is less prescriptive when promoting the breadth of activities that they do. But together as cyclists we are driven by the passion and enthusiasm of all our members and supporters who make Cycling UK welcoming to all.”
Total for poll = 10,227 that represents 15.26% of the membership
Total for CTC = 3,694 that represents 5.51% of the membership
Total for CTC = 36.12%
Total for CUK = 6,533 that represents 9.75% of the membership
Total for CUK = 63.87%
A resounding (non) vote for indifference.
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I guess one could say it's a 'reasonable sample of the membership with a clear margin for confirming the rebrand'... In the scheme of global importance the whole issue doesn't rank that high.
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Any idea if the re-brand has had a positive effect on membership? BC posted on facebook today to say membership is up from 100K to 125K.
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I won't be renewing at the end of this month and can confirm that LCC's membership has definitely increased by 1.
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After 20 yrs of membership I decided it was no longer for me so cancelled my DD. I thought this would trigger some for of communication, but I've had nothing.
Maybe they assumed there would be some attrition so decided not to bother chasing people.
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After 20 yrs of membership I decided it was no longer for me so cancelled my DD. I thought this would trigger some for of communication, but I've had nothing.
Maybe they assumed there would be some attrition so decided not to bother chasing people.
ditto - cancelled my DD and membership lapsed in July, not heard anything from them yet.
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I won't be renewing at the end of this month and can confirm that LCC's membership has definitely increased by 1.
The latest moves to alter LCC membership do NOT inspire me with confidence...
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LCC has lost funding from charities and local authorities.
I have heard that the LCC is short of money as result the following is going to take place:
Adult membership is going up to £49
Supporter rate £3 per month no insurance or vote
Paton rate £1000.00
All local groups asked to give 50% of their money to the central body
Reduction in staff work
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After 20 yrs of membership I decided it was no longer for me so cancelled my DD. I thought this would trigger some for of communication, but I've had nothing.
Maybe they assumed there would be some attrition so decided not to bother chasing people.
ditto - cancelled my DD and membership lapsed in July, not heard anything from them yet.
If they had pursued you, would you now be flooding this thread with positivity?
No, thought not.
There are a number of broken records being played here.
Me? I dont see any credible national competition to the CTC. They are still doing 95% of the stuff they were doing for me 20 years ago. (and their lawyers are currently extracting compo for my smashed teeth. stitches in forehead. et al ... )
If you havent got anything constructive to say, I'm not particularly interested in your continued whining.
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Bit aggressive, no ?
TBH I had moved on from the CTC, hadn't been on a club run for years and had disassociated myself from the DA Committee that I spent 10 years running audaxes for.
The rebrand just pushed me to do something I should have done years ago.
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I've also cancelled my DD after being a member since the early nineties. Why, well at the end of the day I wanted to be part of a club that helped cyclists not a charity that promotes cycling. It may not sound much but the difference is enormous.
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I've also cancelled my DD after being a member since the early nineties. Why, well at the end of the day I wanted to be part of a club that helped cyclists not a charity that promotes cycling. It may not sound much but the difference is enormous.
Please explain your views more fully
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After 20 yrs of membership I decided it was no longer for me so cancelled my DD. I thought this would trigger some for of communication, but I've had nothing.
Maybe they assumed there would be some attrition so decided not to bother chasing people.
ditto - cancelled my DD and membership lapsed in July, not heard anything from them yet.
If they had pursued you, would you now be flooding this thread with positivity?
No, thought not.
There are a number of broken records being played here.
Me? I dont see any credible national competition to the CTC. They are still doing 95% of the stuff they were doing for me 20 years ago. (and their lawyers are currently extracting compo for my smashed teeth. stitches in forehead. et al ... )
If you havent got anything constructive to say, I'm not particularly interested in your continued whining.
Usual to get a reminder, no?
Actually I did get something from them - an invite to free cycle leadership courses in Englandshire. What a bag of bollox for someone who lives in the Outer Hebrides.
Oh, and what are my examples of continued whining on the subject?
Just get over the fact that Cycling UK are not everyone's cup of tea - and BC membership is now nearly double that of CUK ;)
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...
ditto
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Oh, and what are my examples of continued whining on the subject?
Just get over the fact that Cycling UK are not everyone's cup of tea - and BC membership is now nearly double that of CUK ;)
You have plenty of company - incessant droning here from your fellow BC fan-boys. Same posts, different user-ids. If there are more of you, you must be right I guess!
Nothing to do with the millions ploughed into promoting them by Rupert Murdoch of course. I'm sure you've carried out a careful analysis of which body does more for cycling (in the Outer Hebrides and elsewhere), and are not so easily swayed.
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CTC/CUK the future in like of British Cycling membership success?
QUESTIONS
What has CTC/CUK to offer?
Should CTC/CUK redefine it relationship with its users and potential user of its goods and services.
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I'm sure you've carried out a careful analysis of which body does more for cycling
Not really, since I know the answer, I'm just still sulking, although BC's antics lately have probably tipped the balance back, which means it's probably about time for CTC / CUK to do something else ridiculously stupid.
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I'm sure you've carried out a careful analysis of which body does more for cycling
Not really, since I know the answer, I'm just still sulking, although BC's antics lately have probably tipped the balance back, which means it's probably about time for CTC / CUK to do something else ridiculously stupid.
;D
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I only renewed with CTC because I needed the insurance for the FNRttC and for the Friday's Tour.
Other than that, I wouldn't have bothered or I would have gone elsewhere.
I have affiliate membership so they don't get as much money off me and I didn't tick the "charity" box so they can't claim the tax back.
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As I've posted before I wasn't very happy about the direction Cycling UK had gone after the rebrand and decided I wasn't going to renew my membership when it came up for renewal in January. With that date rapidly approaching I cancelled the Direct Debit on the Banks website and thought as a matter of courtisy I'd send an email to CUK advising them of that and please don't attempt to take a DD.
I got a polite email back acknowledging the cancellation, but not a single question as to why. If CUK bothered to look at their records they'd have noted my wife & I had been members since 1994, but no, not one question or a link to a simple survey to as my thoughts.
So was I just another number, am I one of so many they fell they can lose a few an it doesn't matter. Or more likely do they care?
Apparently not.
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I've also not renewed my membership after a mere 12 years of being with them. It felt increasingly like an organisation overly focussed on urban commuting issues, rather than the community of cyclists who shared my love of the sport. Nothing wrong with that, but just not for me.
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This is my 29th or 30th year of membership. I continue it, like other, for the insurance. I probably wouldn't otherwise.
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Our family membership is due this month which ins't cheap. I'll probably renew as I want the insurance but I'm not completely happy about it. I give monthly to out local cycle campaign and tend to believe that its money better spent.
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Does your cycle campaign group have associate membership with CTC and can you get insurance through them at a lower overall price?
Edit: I meant 'affiliate':
http://www.cyclinguk.org/membership/affiliate-membership-for-cycling-clubs-and-groups-of-all-types-and-sizes (http://www.cyclinguk.org/membership/affiliate-membership-for-cycling-clubs-and-groups-of-all-types-and-sizes)
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London Cycling Campaign offer 3rd party insurance with same insurers as Cycling UK for £9.50. Cover is world wide any bike and is open to any UK resident. Curiously its not currently included on the LCC services web page.
http://lcc.org.uk/pages/third-party-liability-insurance (http://lcc.org.uk/pages/third-party-liability-insurance)
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Our family membership is due this month which ins't cheap. I'll probably renew as I want the insurance but I'm not completely happy about it. I give monthly to out local cycle campaign and tend to believe that its money better spent.
If you only ever ride on "local" roads, then it probably seems very well spent - for you. :P
Actually I don't blame you - it's a sad result of the recent "unfortunate" CTC changes that lots of riders are defecting to selfish local campaign groups. :(
CTC does a hell of a lot for ALL UK cyclists - stuff like law changes being the obvious one. Peeps seem to be losing sight of this, which I think is a shame.
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I understand what CUK are trying to achieve with all the changes they have recently pushed through. I simply don't feel particularly connected or enthusiastic about them anymore. The sacking of Chris Juden rankled a bit too.
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I understand what CUK are trying to achieve with all the changes they have recently pushed through. I simply don't feel particularly connected or enthusiastic about them anymore. The sacking of Chris Juden rankled a bit too.
More than a bit with me!
One other severe criticism I had - which seems to be being addressed in some small part - was the apparent wholesale dumping of the CTC heritage. I Get the sense that the modernisers haven't entirety had their own way.
Tapatalk puts this signature here, not me!
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CTC does a hell of a lot for ALL UK cyclists - stuff like law changes being the obvious one. Peeps seem to be losing sight of this, which I think is a shame.
Perhaps if CTC stopped banging on about "projects" they might retain members .
To me, "projects" is every bit as local and self centred as the campaign groups which you dismiss. Some people value the local connection more than the national aspect.
It is good that CyclingUK is getting people on bikes somewhere miles away , but I know of at least 2 local groups doing it just as effectively without any support from Godalming.
We joined as cycle tourists and the pleasure of riding with a local group.
As CTC no longer offers what we joined for we have not renewed our membership.
The departure of CJ was the final straw.
I wish CUK no ill , but we decided it was no longer money well spent.
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I've also not renewed my membership after a mere 12 years of being with them. It felt increasingly like an organisation overly focussed on urban commuting issues, rather than the community of cyclists who shared my love of the sport activity. Nothing wrong with that, but just not for me.
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Perhaps if CTC stopped banging on about "projects" they might retain members .
To me, "projects" is every bit as local and self centred as the campaign groups which you dismiss. Some people value the local connection more than the national aspect.
It is good that CyclingUK is getting people on bikes somewhere miles away , but I know of at least 2 local groups doing it just as effectively without any support from Godalming.
We joined as cycle tourists and the pleasure of riding with a local group.
As CTC no longer offers what we joined for we have not renewed our membership.
Our local groups are still going strong - you are welcome to join me on a ride with them!
I'm not really clear what you think you have lost. Here's a good post from a few pages back:
Just what is it people want a national touring club to do? Apart from financially supporting a national rally, like York, I can't think of anything that isn't either better done on a local level or isn't better done elsewhere. When I started touring the information gathered and distributed by the CTC was invaluable, now I have Google. The local groups have been poorly supported, but all the evidence is that this has been recognised and is being addressed. It's easier than ever to set up a new group or affiliate a club. And funding is available in addition to the allocation grant for any project you can make a simple case for. IMO this is the role a national organisation with an interest in touring should be fulfilling, I hope the improvements I've seen over the last five years continue. If that was all the CTC did it would be a pretty small club, and even as an old school touring cyclist I have to recognise that. It's a big club with diverse interests, that's good for cycling even is it isn't necessarily the best for me.
...
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Well I've finally decided to go and find my dummy and rejoin following the charity thing, has it really been that long :o Nothing to do with the rebrand, need the insurance/access to legal and found something else to sulk about with someone else
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Well I've finally decided to go and find my dummy and rejoin following the charity thing, has it really been that long :o Nothing to do with the rebrand, need the insurance/access to legal and found something else to sulk about with someone else
;D
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Well I've finally decided to go and find my dummy and rejoin following the charity thing, has it really been that long :o Nothing to do with the rebrand, need the insurance/access to legal and found something else to sulk about with someone else
Me too :) We shall see . . . how it pans out and whether the 'decision' to rejoin feels right as time passes
https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=111430
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(Because we don't seem to have an 'on the road things which are too small...' thread)
My local CTC member group just voted to become an affiliate group instead. The only change for me is that at some point I will have to pay an extra £2 p.a. for membership of the affiliated group to ride with them, as I will be remaining a CUK member for other reasons.
I can see why they voted as they did, but was slightly saddened to read this in the minutes:
It is very sad that the group is winding up but CTC has moved on and so has cycling. CTC no longer represents what most cyclists do.
I'd agree with the first part, but not the second; IMHO CUK has a broader more inclusive vision of cycling than most member groups, who are by their very nature mostly Proper Cyclists if not Cycling Old Farts (though admittedly my local group does run reasonably successful families rides.)
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Yes it is sad.
This seems to be part of a pattern, maybe it's human nature, or just cyclists. Groups form and they like to think they are special. One way of affirming this is to rebel against some ancient/national institution.
If you're a MAMIL (or other flavour of old fart - like me!) then it feels kinda cool to reject a governing body.
- What are you rebelling against?
- What've you got?
- The CTC!
(James Dean would have made a great MAMIL)
Meanwhile, British Cycling have used the marketing power of Sky/Wiggo/Trott/Boardman to seem like a new, young and cool club to affiliate to. A neat trick.
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CUK has a broader more inclusive vision of cycling than most member groups
I suspect this is part of the problem. It implies a lack of focus.
Compare and contrast with Audax UK, which is thriving (afaict) and one of the reasons for that is its very narrow focus - although there are some disagreements about the organisation's aims and objectives, it has a clearly defined reason for existing.
BC has the advantage of being the sport's official national governing body, which gives it a fairly clear purpose, even though it covers everything from track racing to MTB and BMX.
CUK, on the other hand, seems a bit vague. Many cyclists struggle to identify with it - which is partly a failure of marketing, since it does have something to offer most cyclists, even the MAMILs.
BC's GoRide activities are an example of the kind of thing CUK perhaps ought to be doing - they're not so tightly defined but they're clearly branded as a range of activities suitable for beginners, kids and less confident cyclists - and they're incredibly popular.
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(James Dean would have made a great MAMIL)
I can't agree with that. MAMILs are a pretty reactionary bunch.
How is joining an official national sporting body sponsored by global megacorporations an act of rebellion?
I also don't think people are rebelling against the CTC, they just don't see it as relevant to them.
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How is joining an official national sporting body sponsored by global megacorporations an act of rebellion?
I have no idea! What I said was that BC are seen as cool by many cyclists.
(One could argue that - being a minority - anything cyclists do is rebellious in the grander scheme. But I sympathise with your post!)
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If you're a MAMIL (or other flavour of old fart - like me!) then it feels kinda cool to reject a governing body.
- What are you rebelling against?
- What've you got?
- The CTC!
(James Dean would have made a great MAMIL)
That was Marlon Brando. I see James Dean as a track racer, particularly in the six day events, taciturn but lethally aggressive. Brando is more of a sportive rider or perhaps an audaxer with a hidden past as a roadie in a minor Belgian pro team. Marilyn Monroe would be pushing her bike more than riding it. Audrey Hepburn as the chic lady in floaty dress and summer hat around town on an upright bike with wicker basket.
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(Because we don't seem to have an 'on the road things which are too small...' thread)
It's in Freewheeling.
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=98300.0
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If you're a MAMIL (or other flavour of old fart - like me!) then it feels kinda cool to reject a governing body.
- What are you rebelling against?
- What've you got?
- The CTC!
(James Dean would have made a great MAMIL)
That was Marlon Brando. I see James Dean as a track racer, particularly in the six day events, taciturn but lethally aggressive. Brando is more of a sportive rider or perhaps an audaxer with a hidden past as a roadie in a minor Belgian pro team. Marilyn Monroe would be pushing her bike more than riding it. Audrey Hepburn as the chic lady in floaty dress and summer hat around town on an upright bike with wicker basket.
You are of course correct (on all points).
For decades I thought that was a James Dean line. Serves me right for quoting a film I've never taken the trouble to watch :facepalm:
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I've never seen it either. ;)
On the original point about the CTC/CUK no longer representing what most cyclists do, I think it's pretty much as Citoyen has said. In trying to become a champion for everyone who rides a bike or might like to, it has lost much of its connection with its original base (although the magazine still seems to be mostly aimed at serious enthusiasts rather than plain users of bicycles). As someone local said, campaigning and representation is all good and indeed necessary "but why does my club have to become like this?" So you've got local "clubs" with "members" and a national "organisation" with "supporters". There must be some way to bridge the gap but it doesn't seem to have been done yet.
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I've not given this a lot of thought but I was instinctively disappointed to receive the e-mail offering members 10% off at Halfords. I'm not hypocritical about this, there is occasionally something I get from Halfords such as a emergency brake blocks and I certainly use them for browsing but I wonder what CTC's attitude is towards local bike shops and people who actually know things?
Peter