Author Topic: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"  (Read 39002 times)

mAsTa RiDaH

Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #25 on: 12 October, 2010, 01:40:38 pm »


Not just too narrow to overtake, but the driver drove his truck into a road narrower than the truck itself!


No, Lorry = 2m, width = 2.5
Not according to the evening standard:

Quote

"The road narrowed to two metres at that point and the truck, driven by Joao Lopes, was 2.5 metres wide, Westminster coroner's court heard

That's the way I read it.

But you'd have thought that there would be width restriction in place at either end of the road.

Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #26 on: 12 October, 2010, 01:45:08 pm »
Well, here it is in the Mail in good ol' feet and inches, so it must be right. I suppose it was a gift to them that he was Protugese as well.

HGV driver with bad eyesight who killed TV producer on her bicycle fined just £200  | Mail Online

LGFSS thread seems to suggest that it was decided he ran into her Eilidh Cairns verdict - London Fixed-gear and Single-speed

Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #27 on: 12 October, 2010, 01:49:52 pm »
I just can't understand how any court could even consider 200 pounds to be a valid fine.

If your negligence results in a road death, then you should have your license revoked.  No ifs or buts, game over.
Just someone's butler

mAsTa RiDaH

Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #28 on: 12 October, 2010, 01:51:36 pm »
Well, here it is in the Mail in good ol' feet and inches, so it must be right. I suppose it was a gift to them that he was Protugese as well.

HGV driver with bad eyesight who killed TV producer on her bicycle fined just £200  | Mail Online

LGFSS thread seems to suggest that it was decided he ran into her Eilidh Cairns verdict - London Fixed-gear and Single-speed


Looking at the article then the Police should have conducted an eyesight test by the side of the road.

Current regs in the UK require that all LGV/PSV drivers over 40 (every 5 years) have a medical, and then every year when they reach 65.

The Mail's chatting rubbish though when talking distances with respect to reading number plates. They quote 30 metres, but this is actually 20.5 meters or 65 feet if you are talking old money.

Julian

  • samoture
Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #29 on: 12 October, 2010, 03:45:26 pm »
While I am heartily sickened - if there was any guilt at all, it seems incredible that £200 and 3 points could possibly reflect that - do we know any more about the circumstances?

He was only charged with driving a vehicle with defective eyesight.  NOT with death by dangerous / careless driving.  Not even with dangerous driving.  :(

Obviously he couldn't be sentenced for something he hadn't been charged with, even if he should have been charged with it in the first place.

Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #30 on: 12 October, 2010, 03:50:30 pm »
Am I right in thinking the badly adjusted mirror must have been some sort of over cab one that would show anything in the front blind spot?

I think these are called a 'look down mirror'

http://www.truck-lite.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/GenericView?pageName=/insideTL/CoreMirrorSystems.jsp&storeId=10001&langId=-1

Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #31 on: 12 October, 2010, 09:11:47 pm »
Criticism of the magistrates is uncalled for- they can only sentence for the offence brought before them after all.

However, I find it completely incomprehensible that someone (illegal eyesight or not) could drive up behind someone in a vehicle wider than the lane, kill them, and not be charged with some form of manslaughter (even if only death by careless).

I'd go as far as to say that there should be a binding condition on coroners in such a case to find a verdict of unlawful killing. The system is incomprehensibly broken when someone can end up paying more for parking in an parking bay at the wrong time of day than for manslaughter.

Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #32 on: 12 October, 2010, 09:44:35 pm »
However, I find it completely incomprehensible that someone (illegal eyesight or not) could drive up behind someone in a vehicle wider than the lane, kill them, and not be charged with some form of manslaughter (even if only death by careless)

Likewise. Incomprehensible  >:(

simonp

Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #33 on: 12 October, 2010, 09:59:56 pm »
Did someone say there were no witnesses?  In which case how do you prove "beyond reasonable doubt" that the cyclist was hit from behind rather than was filtering?  Istm that if hit from behind, mirrors would be irrelevant.

Steve Kish

  • World's No. 1 moaner about the weather.
Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #34 on: 12 October, 2010, 10:14:24 pm »
CPS are chicken-livered arse-wipes!

In 1987 I was hit by a car near Tilbury whilst in the middle of a time trial.  Driver failed to stop but someone got his number and the car was traced to a local depot.  Coppers interviewed the transport manager and the suspected driver.  Passed to CPS and as the coppers were only 95% convinced that the interviewed driver was driving, with a 5% chance that it was someone else, CPS declined to prosecute! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Old enough to know better!

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #35 on: 13 October, 2010, 03:33:38 am »
amazing, really truthfully amazing £200 and 3 points.


Get more for speeding, next time I want to kill some one I going to use a truck/car/bus as you get away with it. 

Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #36 on: 13 October, 2010, 09:45:31 am »
Did someone say there were no witnesses?  In which case how do you prove "beyond reasonable doubt" that the cyclist was hit from behind rather than was filtering?  Istm that if hit from behind, mirrors would be irrelevant.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that marks on the lorry suggested that it hit the bike near centre of the lorry. In other words the bike must have been in front of the lorry and near the centre of the road.

Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #37 on: 13 October, 2010, 10:13:15 am »
Did someone say there were no witnesses?  In which case how do you prove "beyond reasonable doubt" that the cyclist was hit from behind rather than was filtering?  Istm that if hit from behind, mirrors would be irrelevant.

There were witnesses, but not eye-witnesses. There was also no CCTV.

At the inquest officers from the Met Collision Investigation Unit thought it more likely she was in front of the lorry. I'd infer from this that they could not be certain of the critical combination of circumstances that led to Eilidh's death, but given the available evidence this was their (qualified) conclusion.

A Class VI mirror does allow a driver to see directly in front of his cab. However, I do not know if the tipper truck involved was fitted with this mirror.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #38 on: 13 October, 2010, 10:14:28 am »
The quote above suggests it did.
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Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #39 on: 13 October, 2010, 11:01:22 am »
Did someone say there were no witnesses?  In which case how do you prove "beyond reasonable doubt" that the cyclist was hit from behind rather than was filtering?  Istm that if hit from behind, mirrors would be irrelevant.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that marks on the lorry suggested that it hit the bike near centre of the lorry. In other words the bike must have been in front of the lorry and near the centre of the road.

Or the lorry was not in the centre of the lane.

Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #40 on: 13 October, 2010, 11:03:04 am »
The quote above suggests it did.

I'd be surprised if it was fitted with a Class VI mirror - I'll try and find out.

Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #41 on: 13 October, 2010, 03:00:59 pm »
Did someone say there were no witnesses?  In which case how do you prove "beyond reasonable doubt" that the cyclist was hit from behind rather than was filtering?  Istm that if hit from behind, mirrors would be irrelevant.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that marks on the lorry suggested that it hit the bike near centre of the lorry. In other words the bike must have been in front of the lorry and near the centre of the road.

Or the lorry was not in the centre of the lane.

I'm assuming that the bike will have left a pretty good scrape on the road which would show where on the road it hit the ground. combine that with any marks on the lorry and you'll have a good idea of the relative positions of the two - when the bike made contact with the road at least.

Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #42 on: 13 October, 2010, 06:09:55 pm »
I've just read about this here:
Crap Cycling & Walking in Waltham Forest: Tipper truck driver who killed Eilidh Cairns fined £200

I'm particularly interested the comment: "Note the complete silence from Britain’s two main cycling organisations, the London Cycling Campaign and the Cyclists Touring Club. As usual, they have nothing to say. And they certainly wouldn’t want to organise any kind of protest, because that might imperil their funding."
Is there any truth in this or is it just a rant?
Never knowingly under caffeinated


Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #44 on: 13 October, 2010, 06:26:23 pm »
I've just read about this here:
Crap Cycling & Walking in Waltham Forest: Tipper truck driver who killed Eilidh Cairns fined £200

I'm particularly interested the comment: "Note the complete silence from Britain’s two main cycling organisations, the London Cycling Campaign and the Cyclists Touring Club. As usual, they have nothing to say. And they certainly wouldn’t want to organise any kind of protest, because that might imperil their funding."
Is there any truth in this or is it just a rant?

I dont know if thats true or not, but I am getting very pissed off with the ctc not seeming to want to at least issue a press statemnet condeming what has happened.


Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #46 on: 13 October, 2010, 06:47:18 pm »


Not just too narrow to overtake, but the driver drove his truck into a road narrower than the truck itself!


No, Lorry = 2m, width = 2.5
Not according to the evening standard:

Quote

"The road narrowed to two metres at that point and the truck, driven by Joao Lopes, was 2.5 metres wide, Westminster coroner's court heard

That's the way I read it.

But you'd have thought that there would be width restriction in place at either end of the road.

Google Maps

This is the pinch point where it happened.

The lorry was narrower than one of the lanes not the road itself.

The railings on the left have been removed since the accident. I don't know if this was done in response to it. They haven't widened the road tho.

There's a ghost bike for Eilidh locked to the railings in the central reservation.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Eilidh Cairns inquest- "Road too narrow to overtake"
« Reply #47 on: 13 October, 2010, 08:46:48 pm »
If she'd been to the side, she'd have been crushed against the railings.

She wasn't.  She was struck by the middle of the front of the truck.
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