Author Topic: Helpful EDM need support  (Read 2560 times)

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Helpful EDM need support
« on: 15 April, 2011, 11:28:03 am »
Whilst there is all this press attention on cyclists, perhaps peeps could think of contacting their MPs and asking them to support Early Day Motion 1393

Quote
That this House acknowledges that many other European countries have much better cyclist and pedestrian safety records than the UK; recognises that these countries apply the principle of stricter liability to vulnerable road victims, so that drivers of vehicles that hit cyclists or pedestrians are assumed liable unless they can prove their innocence; believes that this makes drivers more aware of the vulnerability of children, cyclists and pedestrians; notes that, in contrast in UK road traffic personal injury cases, the burden of proof is on the victim to prove the other party was negligent; is aware of research that shows the fatality rate of cyclists aged 10 to 14 involved in collisions with motor vehicles is five times worse in the UK than in the Netherlands and Sweden; and calls on the Government to bring road traffic personal injury legislation into line with workplace health and safety law, product liability law and car passenger protection by adoption of the principle of stricter liability.

A quick and easy way yo contact your MP is to use Write to Them
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Helpful EDM need support
« Reply #1 on: 15 April, 2011, 11:45:13 am »
My message to my MP (Andrew Lansley):

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I am writing to ask that for your support for Early Day Motion 1393, on stricter liability.  I note that it has already been signed by your colleague, Julian Huppert, the member for Cambridge.

As an experienced cyclist who has been seriously injured on the road through no fault of my own, I know how difficult it is to obtain proper compensation for injury and damage to property.  Insurers use every excuse possible to try and avoid paying out to those injured by motorists (be they cyclists or other vulnerable road users).  Introducing the presumption of liability would bring us into line with our European neighbours, many of whom have cyclist and pedestrian KSI rates significantly below those of the UK.

As Secretary of State for Health, giving your support to this proposal would be a strong statement of your support for one of the healthiest methods of transport available, and would help underpin the commitment to public health that you have given in the plans for the restructuring of the NHS. Regular cyclists save the NHS money, have fewer days of absence from work for illness reasons (thus helping 'UK plc') and have extended life expectancies.

Introducing a presumption of liability/stricter liability would be one of the biggest boosts to cycling that this Government could make, and would show a commitment to supporting a healthy, environmentally friendly and sociable form of transport.

Please sign EDM 1393.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Helpful EDM need support
« Reply #2 on: 15 April, 2011, 11:46:09 am »
..my MP (Andrew Lansley)...


You poor sod.
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Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Helpful EDM need support
« Reply #3 on: 15 April, 2011, 11:47:39 am »
..my MP (Andrew Lansley)...


You poor sod.

Actually, as a constituency MP he's not bad.  I was a bit worried moving out from the city, where the Lib Dems hold the seat, but he has been remarkably cyclist friendly in the past.  I've even seen him out and about on a bike.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Helpful EDM need support
« Reply #4 on: 15 April, 2011, 11:49:49 am »
Well, that's good news.  Even Beelzebub has redeeming qualities. </OT>

Back OT, thanks for drawing attention to this EDM.  I shall contact my MP, if he isn't hiding under the desk after my last couple of emails. ;D

He's a Lib Dem.  They'll sign anything on the basis that they can renege later...
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Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Helpful EDM need support
« Reply #5 on: 15 April, 2011, 12:11:29 pm »
Done.

I've no idea if my MP supports cycling (the previous one did, but was a pro-helmet nutter  ::-) ) The new one has a bouffant, so no doubt would be against helmets.
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: Helpful EDM need support
« Reply #6 on: 15 April, 2011, 02:27:06 pm »
I'll write to mine this weekend. I don't hold up to much hope however. Last time I wrote to her, about a year ago, I got a letter back (well - 3 identical ones actually over the course of 2 weeks) advising me that she would reply to me soon, but she had more important things to to right then - she was preparing her general election campaign. I'm still waiting for a response...  :(

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Helpful EDM need support
« Reply #7 on: 15 April, 2011, 02:45:47 pm »
Written.  I remembered that he is a keen cyclist, so shouldn't be too difficult.

I'm disappointed to see how few sigs the EDM has, despite having been available for a while :(
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her_welshness

  • Slut of a librarian
    • Lewisham Cyclists
Re: Helpful EDM need support
« Reply #8 on: 15 April, 2011, 03:10:09 pm »
I've written to mine (Joan Ruddock), I think I will get a positive response from her  :)

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Helpful EDM need support
« Reply #9 on: 15 April, 2011, 03:16:38 pm »
I'm disappointed to see how few sigs the EDM has, despite having been available for a while :(

Pretty even Lib/Lab split, but just the one CON - rather supports the stereotype, doesn't it? :(
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Helpful EDM need support
« Reply #10 on: 15 April, 2011, 04:25:36 pm »
I'm disappointed to see how few sigs the EDM has, despite having been available for a while :(

Pretty even Lib/Lab split, but just the one CON - rather supports the stereotype, doesn't it? :(

I've written to our MP, Matt.  He is a "part-time" cyclist who has responded positively in the past, so I am hopeful his name will appear on the list.  No harm in your asking him as well, of course.  Ed Vaisey, in case you can't remember his name ;D

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Helpful EDM need support
« Reply #11 on: 15 April, 2011, 09:37:44 pm »
Written. 

Well, I would have done, if Write To Them had sent me an email to confirm :(
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Re: Helpful EDM need support
« Reply #12 on: 15 April, 2011, 10:26:48 pm »
My MP will never sign EDMs

Sir George Young, the "cycling baronet".


Re: Helpful EDM need support
« Reply #13 on: 20 April, 2011, 02:03:52 pm »
Just had a reply from mine (Ed Vaisey) - "However, as a member of the Government, I am not in a position to sign any Early Day Motions".  He did, however, also say

"I understand your concerns about cyclist and pedestrian safety, and this is an issue the Government takes very seriously. I welcome the Department for Transport’s promotion of cycling as part of its sustainable travel initiatives.

Under UK law, the burden of proof is on the victim to prove the other party is negligent in road traffic personal injury cases. Under ‘stricter liability’ this would be reversed and the driver would have to prove the pedestrian or cyclist was negligent. It would be an anomaly if this was changed for collisions with pedestrians and cyclists. It could also lead to unfair results in cases where the motorist is driving entirely responsibly and the accident is caused by the irresponsible or negligent behaviour of a cyclist or pedestrian.

Evidence from the Think evaluation and other research suggest that driver behaviour change is more likely to be motivated by serious personal consequences, whether it be death or injury to themselves or others, or criminal punishments such as loss of their licence or imprisonment, than they are by any insurance issues. The Department for Transport has therefore focused on those approaches to behaviour change rather than insurance or liability.

Whilst the law often uses strict liability in situations where there is likely to be an imbalance in terms of responsibility and where there is an inherent danger, I do not consider that there is merit in a change from the current standards in favour of stricter liability. To justify any such change, it would be important to have strong evidence of a benefit.
"

I found this particularly disappointing, as it suggests that there will only be "driver behaviour change" as a result of further carnage.  I have written again, expressing the view that law change of this nature is unlikely to improve matters much, given such widespread disregard of existing laws, and that the threat of higher insurance premiums following any claim is likely to be rather more "behaviour changing".  (Having read his response again, I am considering a further response re the insurance liability issue - the issue of "unfairness" would be no worse than currently, where the innocent victim has to prove negligence.)

Let's see if this brings forth any further response.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Helpful EDM need support
« Reply #14 on: 20 April, 2011, 02:57:58 pm »
Well done Phil. It's clear to me that he hasn't actually looked into this, so maybe it's worth pressing further.

I am 98% certain that I've seen this text (from his reply) before, word-for-word:

Under UK law, the burden of proof is on the victim to prove the other party is negligent in road traffic personal injury cases. Under ‘stricter liability’ this would be reversed and the driver would have to prove the pedestrian or cyclist was negligent. It would be an anomaly if this was changed for collisions with pedestrians and cyclists. It could also lead to unfair results in cases where the motorist is driving entirely responsibly and the accident is caused by the irresponsible or negligent behaviour of a cyclist or pedestrian.

I noted it as it so completely misses the point about the imbalance of vulnerability :(
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Helpful EDM need support
« Reply #15 on: 20 April, 2011, 04:27:08 pm »
28 sigs. Not going to make much of an impact