Author Topic: Super bright flashing bloody lights  (Read 30437 times)

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Super bright flashing bloody lights
« on: 23 November, 2011, 06:55:53 pm »
I've been driving way too much lately, and I need to vent about these bloody super-bright blinkies.

They're always aimed at driver's eye height. 

They're so demanding of attention that they draw it away from the rest of the road.

They don't really tell where the rider is, they just white out a window with a bit of damp on it.  All I can tell is that there must be an air raid 'cos the Blitz lights are on.

They're just bloody rude.

Look, I know you Fenix-lovers like to play the escalation game, but ffs, these things are hostile.  You're not even making yourself safer: by drawing my attention too your god-awful retina-fucking death lamp, I'm more likely to fuck up. 

You don't want my ton of death wagon to fuck up, so STOP BLINDING THE BLOODY VEHICLE OPERATOR YOU DIV!

 :demon:
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #1 on: 23 November, 2011, 06:57:17 pm »
<sits down with a bag of popcorn>
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #2 on: 23 November, 2011, 07:01:28 pm »
^ ^ ^ ^

What Mr Andygates said!

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #3 on: 23 November, 2011, 07:06:28 pm »
The "zap em in the eyes to be sure they see ya" technique was valid back in the days of bulbs

With great power comes great responsibility.
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

ian

Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #4 on: 23 November, 2011, 07:15:16 pm »
Yeah, there was one behind me all the way down Walworth Road the other day. It was like he had somehow stuffed the blinding light of rapture in a baked bean can and sellotaped it to his handlebars. He was probably setting off epileptics all the way south to Croydon. Any closer and they would have been pillars of salt. I am not sure whether it was the light flashing or the world around me switching on and off.

He did have a driver yell at him at the lights in Camberwell that he was dazzling everyone. Ambassador to cycling that he was, he told the driver to driver to fuck off. No Ferrero Rocher at the diplomats reception for him. I asked him to tone it down at the lights beside Kings. I believe he made a non-complimentary comment of a nature liable to cause offense.

Fortunately, I had a hungry shark that I shoved over his head like a furiously fishy hat and it ate him. Consider yourself judged, tossjam.

The moral of the story is that people with stupid bright lights should turn 'em down. This applies to German car drivers too, who I'd like to blast with a gigawatt orbital laser. There's always a brighter light, my little teutonic tugboats.

Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #5 on: 23 November, 2011, 07:24:35 pm »
The flash mode isn't needed nowadays. It comes from the very early diode lights that weren't quite as bright as the old Ever Readys with filament bulbs.
Anyone remember the 3 diode Vista lights? Many cyclists wouldn't use them, saying that they were not bright enough. I did use them because they were very reliable and gave very good run times as well as only needing AA batteries instead of giant D cells.

Then along came flashing rear lights. The Vista 5 diode was almost as bright as an Ever Ready filament bulb light, but had a flash mode. It was around this time, early to mid 1990s when diode lights really started to take off and flashing rear lights were becoming common. They needed flash mode to compensate for their lack of lumens.

Since then, diode lights have come a very long way. I stopped using flash mode years ago, probably more like a decade. When you've got a half, or even one watt diode, flash is just overkill, unless it's daytime and foggy.

I've heard a lot of anecdotes that drivers find it much harder to judge the distance of a flashing light than a constant. Most of those comments came from keen cyclists.
I like my one watt Smart rear light. It's super bright, but instead of using flash mode to save batteries, I can put it on dim mode, which is still plenty bright enough. I use full blast most of the time, but never flash mode, it's just unnecessary. If it annoys people, then that's no good thing!

Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #6 on: 23 November, 2011, 07:31:43 pm »
Complete reliquishment of all soverign powers and full integration to the Euro Zone is the answer to this [as long as we can keep our beer], then the French can muscle in and get their way and we'll all be ruled by PBP-Brussels.

[Knees down and prays hard].

[Note to self - stay away from this thread while under the influence]
Garry Broad

Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #7 on: 23 November, 2011, 07:36:44 pm »
My new Magicshine needs a dip setting for sure. 

Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #8 on: 23 November, 2011, 07:38:07 pm »
I've heard a lot of anecdotes that drivers find it much harder to judge the distance of a flashing light than a constant. Most of those comments came from keen cyclists.

I can verify that too. Sometimes it really can be difficult. Then the cry goes up 'ah, so you've seen me then, which is a good thing'. Wrong. What's happened is: I could see you anyway, all that's happened now is my judgement's impaired, and I can't actually see as well as I could because I have this *&£$*&^$( Circus in front of me. That is not a good thing.
Garry Broad

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #9 on: 23 November, 2011, 07:45:59 pm »
<nominates Andy Gates for Bike Lighting Tzar>

Oh, and when you're on a fecking organised ride, deliberately routed down fecking quiet roads (including "Quiet Lane" signs), they are at least doubly annoying.

p.s. I did not know the Smart 1W had a dim mode - I've never had a dim mode on a rear light, but had thought this is just what the newer bright lights need :thumbsup: decent battery life again!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #10 on: 23 November, 2011, 07:49:15 pm »
I'm not really entitled to an opinion on the brightness of rear lights due to my red insensitivity, but having done more and more night riding I'm increasingly thinking that anything brighter than the ubiquitous Smart 1/2W is overkill in everything but serious fog.  If you want to be more visible, I reckon you're better off trying to cover more area[1] (so multiple lights, or something like a Fibre Flare) than with a single point LAZER OF DETH.

I think flashing has a legitimate use to mark you as 'cyclist', especially if you're riding something of an unconventional shape (you really don't want your trike mistaken for a car in the distance), but should ideally be used in combination with a static source.

I like the Radbot because I think the 'throbbing' is much less offensive than a standard on/off flash, but I understand that its peak brightness isn't something you want in your eye at point blank range.  I've deliberately fettled a bracket to mount it as low as possible, so it disappears behind the bonnet of the car behind at junctions, and to keep it below the eyeline of other cyclists.



[1] On which note, lights with 'Knight Rider'-style funky disco scrolling patterns can easily be proven pointless by viewing from a few tens of metres back.  If you've got n LEDs, the best visibility comes from lighting n of them at the same time, either statically or in an all-on/all-off flash sequence.  I know it looks cool up close, but it's pointless.

Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #11 on: 23 November, 2011, 08:05:43 pm »
Having  ridden (and helped lead) more than a few FNRttC's, I can attest to what Andy is saying in the OP.

I stopped looking over my shoulder to see how the ride was doing some while ago.

Why?

The visual information coming back wasn't in the least bit helpful in letting me know what's going on behind, in addition to seriously fouling up my ability to see where I was going for some time after I'd faced forward again.

Nowadays I assess what's going on with the ride once I've reached one of the many stopping points and am off the bike for a few minutes.

Not so much Turnham Green - more Turn 'em down - and that applies to Xenon / High Intensity Discharge armed motorists as well.

It really does err into 'F*ck-you-I-can-see-where-I'm-going-so-I-don't-give-a-monkey's' territory.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #12 on: 23 November, 2011, 08:11:42 pm »
<nominates Andy Gates for Bike Lighting Tzar>

Oh, and when you're on a fecking organised ride, deliberately routed down fecking quiet roads (including "Quiet Lane" signs), they are at least doubly annoying.

p.s. I did not know the Smart 1W had a dim mode - I've never had a dim mode on a rear light, but had thought this is just what the newer bright lights need :thumbsup: decent battery life again!

I think the dim mode may refer to the rider rather than the lamp.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #13 on: 23 November, 2011, 08:14:04 pm »
The visual information coming back wasn't in the least bit helpful in letting me know what's going on behind, in addition to seriously fouling up my ability to see where I was going for some time after I'd faced forward again.

It's a lot less annoying when viewed in a mirror.  I always forget this when first riding an upwrong at night.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #14 on: 23 November, 2011, 08:22:25 pm »
Wot Andy said.. dazzled by two cyclists tonight.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Tim

Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #15 on: 23 November, 2011, 08:22:52 pm »
With great power comes a need to have a good beam pattern, including a cropping of photons going upwards. All the torches appear to have a round beam pattern which severely compromises their qualities for use on the road.

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #16 on: 23 November, 2011, 08:26:27 pm »
If a rider has only one lamp, a steady lamp is easier for other road users to position.  It gets done by driver autopilot, normally.  This applies to front and rear.  Other road users are, after all, used to looking for other lit vehicles, which have steady big bright white lights front and red lights rear.

A blinky alone takes me a few blinks to target.  A lot of the time I think I'm resolving their position by non-lamp cues (the luminous frock, often: retro-reflective really is very perspicuous). 

I get a pair of uncomfortable impressions from just-blinky riders.  If they're just rocking the death-blink up front, they're the confrontational, quote-the-highway-code-at-you type.  A small part of me wants to bop them on the nose for being tossers.  If they're just rocking a blinky red, or two, or seven, in a bandolier, they're the apologetic please-mister-driver-don't-kill-me type, and they almost annoy me more with such a conspicuous display of weakness. 

Man, am I cranky tonight.

Fibreflares are pretty good, actually, though I don't think they're significantly better than a strip of red retro tape -- definitely not £30 better.  I love retro, it never runs flat and it weighs nothing. 

Full-on mental deep-sea creature lighting is a whole other game.  That's the Pinkie Pie of the road, and like fibreflares, it's all just accessorizing.  So long as it doesn't confuse your location or dazzle the operator of the death machine you want to avoid, knock yourselves out.  :) 
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #17 on: 23 November, 2011, 08:29:35 pm »
With great power comes a need to have a good beam pattern, including a cropping of photons going upwards. All the torches appear to have a round beam pattern which severely compromises their qualities for use on the road.

Yes!  This!  Beam patterns aren't rocket science, surely?
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #18 on: 23 November, 2011, 09:01:01 pm »
Fibreflares are pretty good, actually, though I don't think they're significantly better than a strip of red retro tape -- definitely not £30 better.  I love retro, it never runs flat and it weighs nothing.

I reckon the Fibreflare (on flashing mode) is completely inoffensive to other riders and yet astoundingly visible in city traffic.  I thought it was a cute gimmick until I saw people using them on the FNRttC.  They stand out really well against a background of random light sources, and mount sensibly to the seat stay of lightweight road bikes in exactly the way that the vast majority of rear lights seem not to.  The 360-degree light source is inherently alignment-error-proof, too: ideal for attaching to saddlebags.

I am, as you know, also a fan of retroreflective bling - you can't beat it for covering a decent area, but it is of course no substitute for lights.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #19 on: 23 November, 2011, 09:07:33 pm »
With great power comes a need to have a good beam pattern, including a cropping of photons going upwards. All the torches appear to have a round beam pattern which severely compromises their qualities for use on the road.

Yes!  This!  Beam patterns aren't rocket science, surely?
+n

Bike lights above a certain brightness should be dippable, just like motor vehicle lights.

And in terms of visibility size of lens counts just as much as does intensity of light.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #20 on: 23 November, 2011, 09:18:35 pm »
Torch lights work ok if pointed downwards, but they are a compromise compared to proper bike lights.

I've toned my lighting right down on groups rides since I started doing them, and tried to not use flashing modes as they get very wearing after a while. I'd actually quite like a no flashing lights rule on things like the FNRttC which seem to be a lighting arms race.

I do think Kim's throbbing red is one of the most recognisable lights I've seen on the road though
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #21 on: 23 November, 2011, 09:29:20 pm »
Front: I liked my Dinotte 600L but I was rarely able to use it on full, and for most of the time it would have been inconsiderate to use it on anything but low. The normal flash mode was excellent but I suspect it would have been too bright to oncoming traffic, even when the light was angled down fairly conservatively. The uber-flash mode: forget it. My current light is an Exposure Strada 2 which has a sort of rectangular beam on the low setting, and some degree of cutoff even on full. Full beam is bright for oncoming traffic, but much better than the Dinotte, and I can use 600 lumen setting, with care, on the road sometimes. The lower setting is an excellent balance for routine use.

Rear: I like the 1/2 Superflash and my Cateye TL LD 600. The latter is a good light, not offensive to the eye on steady or flash. I like to have the Superflash available though, and I do use it on flash in town at times. My experience is that, in town, I get more space when it is on flash.

Teethgrinder, is this the one you have, with the group ride mode? I must try one.

http://www.thebikelightshop.co.uk/Smart-Lunar-R1-Club-Offer.aspx

Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #22 on: 23 November, 2011, 09:40:34 pm »
<nominates Andy Gates for Bike Lighting Tzar>

Oh, and when you're on a fecking organised ride, deliberately routed down fecking quiet roads (including "Quiet Lane" signs), they are at least doubly annoying.

p.s. I did not know the Smart 1W had a dim mode - I've never had a dim mode on a rear light, but had thought this is just what the newer bright lights need :thumbsup: decent battery life again!

I think the dim mode may refer to the rider rather than the lamp.

 ;D

The Smart 1W lights really do have a low beam mode.

I use it for group rides or when I'm on a long ride and there isn't much traffic.

Yes, Sergeant Pluck, that's the one I mean.

Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #23 on: 23 November, 2011, 09:47:42 pm »
The day when SMIDSY becomes unheard of is the day people stop using f-off powerful lights. Cause & effect innit?

Re: Super bright flashing bloody lights
« Reply #24 on: 23 November, 2011, 09:50:51 pm »
SMIDSY="Get out of jail free" card for bad driving IMO.