Lightweight touring setup

[BobScarle]

I am coming to the conclusion that I probably will not be doing anymore touring on a bike. Circumstances are changing and it is not going to happen. So I am probably going to sell my Genesis Tour de Fer (original spec) and panniers (40 litres per pair) and bar bag (9 litres). But I still want to do some lightweight touring, using B&B's rather than camping.

I have a Sabbath September which I use for audax rides. Looking at the Sabbath website I see that it can carry up to 25 Kg of luggage. I already have a rack which I use with a Carradice Super C rack bag. So I was thinking. I could buy a pair of front panniers and mount them on the rack (after removing the rack bag) and a smaller bar bag. Working on the theory that less space means less stuff that I don't really need.

Does anybody use front panniers on the rear and if so, do they work well? CARRADICE CarraDry Front Panniers are some that I have been looking at as they have a capacity of 20 litres per pair. Might be able to use the rack bag if I was pushed for space.

I might also need to look at lowering the gearing on the bike. It is set up with a triple (50/39/30) but I am not sure if I would benefit from something like (48/38/28).

[LittleWheelsandBig]

HK only ever uses front panniers on a rear rack, when she uses panniers while touring. The rear panniers are for shopping, usually combined with a trailer.

[Brucey]

I've happily toured with a saddlebag only, or a saddlebag plus two smallish panniers on the rear. I've used either front panniers or rear ones that are lightly built and have good straps on the outside. When there is little in them, the panniers can be strapped up so that they are slim.

 Occasionally having the extra space (eg to carry enough food for a blow-out picnic... or for extra clothes) comes in handy.

cheers

[zigzag]

i used front pannier on the rear rack no problem. i was thinking of the way to attach the pannier horizontally on the rack for better aerodynamics.

[tatanab]

I note that the small panniers you are proposing have about the same carrying capacity as my saddlebag.  About 30 years ago I tried a tour with panniers like that (on the rear) instead of a saddlebag.  Only that once - after that I went back to using a saddlebag as normal because it is far easier to pack or to access stuff in a saddlebag than in the panniers.

[mzjo]

I did this for a very successful week's youth-hostelling on a tandem (a very long time time and a couple of marriages ago). I can't remember if we had a barbag as well but there were two of us.
Now my Camper Longflap plus barbag is probably bigger than the pair of small panniers but that does for a week (and by extension any tour longer than a week equally well). With age I seem to need more stuff although I don't quite know why.

[BobScarle]

Thank you all, it looks like it's a go'er then.

I have just put the Genesis in the Classified section.

[mrcharly-YHT]

On my last camping trip I used a front rack with panniers on the front and a nelson longflap on the back.
I decided if I wanted to carry more for a longer trip I'd put a small rack on the back, remove the bagman, use the same small panniers on the back with the longflap and strap sleeping bag to top of small rack on front (I've carried it on there before). That would free up most of one small pannier for more food and another item of warm clothing.

That's tent camping, mind you, with tent, stove and everything, including change of clothes and a towel for a shower.

For B&B travel, I reckon a Nelson longflap or two small panniers would ample, particularly if you could have a barbag for a camera or food.

Having panniers on the front meant I could stash food for the road somewhere easy to reach. A barbag would be better.

[BobScarle]

For B&B travel, I reckon a Nelson longflap or two small panniers would ample, particularly if you could have a barbag for a camera or food.

That's exactly what I was thinking. No need to carry camping equipment so cut right back on space. Two small panniers for clothes and a bar bag for wallet, phone and maybe a bit of on the bike food, is the way to go.

[quixoticgeek]

That's exactly what I was thinking. No need to carry camping equipment so cut right back on space. Two small panniers for clothes and a bar bag for wallet, phone and maybe a bit of on the bike food, is the way to go.

Just how much clothing are you carrying? I fit in everything I needed (including an SLR camera) for a weeks' walking holiday in the Italian Alps, in a 15l backpack. I can see the idea of using one front pannier on the back of a bike, I just can't work out what you'd put in the other one?

If you're travelling that light, a saddle bag is probably a better bet.

J

[mrcharly-YHT]

That's exactly what I was thinking. No need to carry camping equipment so cut right back on space. Two small panniers for clothes and a bar bag for wallet, phone and maybe a bit of on the bike food, is the way to go.

Just how much clothing are you carrying? I fit in everything I needed (including an SLR camera) for a weeks' walking holiday in the Italian Alps, in a 15l backpack. I can see the idea of using one front pannier on the back of a bike, I just can't work out what you'd put in the other one?

If you're travelling that light, a saddle bag is probably a better bet.

J

Depends on gear and weather, surely?

On my last camping my clothing was adequate, despite the torrential rain and wind, because it was fairly warm. If it had been cold I didn't have a warm jacket. Warm jackets, unless you have spent loadsamoney on down, tend to be bulky.

There is only so far a few thin layers of merino can take you (and it varies with the individual). I need more warmth as I get older.

[BobScarle]

I have got a Carradice Super C rack bag I use for audax's which has a capacity of 13 litres. I struggle to fit enough in for a long day ride. Maybe I take too much but I thought with spare cycle clothing as well I would have too much. I feel I need more than the Super C. I have never liked the idea of using one pannier, just looks unbalanced to me.

[quixoticgeek]

Depends on gear and weather, surely?

On my last camping my clothing was adequate, despite the torrential rain and wind, because it was fairly warm. If it had been cold I didn't have a warm jacket. Warm jackets, unless you have spent loadsamoney on down, tend to be bulky.

There is only so far a few thin layers of merino can take you (and it varies with the individual). I need more warmth as I get older.

The example I mentioned was with a load out based on staying in a B&B/Hotel, with hikes into the mountains at temps from 0-30°C. It included a fleece jacket (Páramo Bentu fleece), and a windproof jacket (Páramo Fuera Ascent).

Before deciding that bag you need, it's worth looking at what you want to take on a trip, then choose the bag to match. So Bob, what's on your packing list?

J

[BobScarle]

Before deciding that bag you need, it's worth looking at what you want to take on a trip, then choose the bag to match. So Bob, what's on your packing list?

My packing list would consist of a couple of changes of clothes, including shoes and a fleece, and spare cycling gear. That would be, IME too much for the Super C, as would the gear you take, 15l does not go into a 13l rack bag. A couple of small panniers seems to be the best way forward. Personally I prefer two small ones as opposed to one larger one.

[Karla]

If you're B&B touring, you should have no trouble fitting everything into the Super C.  Here's my kit list that has got me around several two week tours in Europe, all fitted into a Nelson.

[mrcharly-YHT]

If you pick two small panniers, choose ones that clip together so you don't end up with the hooks scraping your legs.

I have some carradice front panniers and they have a carrying handle that does this job, it is nicely sized and comfortable for carrying. Other brands may be just as good.

quixoticgeek's warm/weather resistant gear looks more compact and 'technical' than anything I own. I fear I'm a bit behind the times with these things.

[Kim]

A pair of front panniers is an excellent amount of luggage.  One takes all the bike stuff you'd normally have in a rackbag/saddlebag for a long ride, and the other takes your "overnight bag" civvies.  If necessary you can move things around to have a "wet bag" and a "dry bag".

I'll also do it for day rides when I'm four-pannier cycle-camping, in lieu of a rackbag.  My panniers are set up so that the same clip positions work on both the front and rear racks of my touring bike, so it's the work of seconds to put the front panniers on the rear rack for a day ride.  I'll distribute my bike stuff between both panniers, which leaves plenty of room to take on some shopping towards the end of the ride.

(I should disclaimer that while I'm all for carrying the kitchen sink just in case, I'm not one of those people who fills luggage to capacity on general principle.  Empty space is something that's always worth carrying on tour.)

[bikepacker]

Prior to his death my old friend and well know character Neville Chanin toured more miles than most throughout Europe using just a Carradice Long Flap Camper saddlebag.

[Kim]

Prior to his death my old friend and well know character Neville Chanin toured more miles than most throughout Europe using just a Carradice Long Flap Camper saddlebag.

There's always going to be someone with more tolerance for cold and dirty clothes than you.  I don't think it really proves anything.

[tatanab]

Prior to his death my old friend and well know character Neville Chanin toured more miles than most throughout Europe using just a Carradice Long Flap Camper saddlebag.

I was "educated" in cycle touring by Neville and his cohorts of CCP Davies, Dave Culverwell and others.  The statement was that you need just so much for a weekend, perhaps a little more for a week, but do not need more than that for 2 weeks or 4 or more.  I can still do a 4 weeks summer tour (I stress summer because more is needed for other seasons) with my Campers Longflap just over half full.

[Cudzoziemiec]

It also depends on your tolerance for wearing lycra off the bike. Or for cycling long distances in non-cycling clothes. Or indeed for doing things other than just cycling and sitting round a campsite while on tour.

[tatanab]

It also depends on your tolerance for wearing lycra off the bike. Or for cycling long distances in non-cycling clothes. Or indeed for doing things other than just cycling and sitting round a campsite while on tour.

Modern cycle and travel clothing is much lighter, more compact and dries quicker after washing than the stuff I started touring with in the late 60s.  These days (summer tour clothing) I wear a set of cycle clothes, I carry a second set.  I have arm warmers and leg warmers, just in  case, and a long sleeved cycling top.  For civilian purposes I have a pair of light shoes, Rohan shirt and trousers.  That is it if I am hotel/B&B touring, plus a small Ist aid kit.  Waterproofs etc do not count because they are carried anyway and are not in the bag.  When camping I have to add toiletries and some toilet roll to that. 

As has been said, we all have our own personal comfort items or acceptable level of discomfort.  One of my local "hard man" tourists gets a tarpaulin and sleeping bag in a Campers Longflap along with his clothes etc.  That is way beyond what I could cope with.

[Kim]

As has been said, we all have our own personal comfort items or acceptable level of discomfort.  One of my local "hard man" tourists gets a tarpaulin and sleeping bag in a Campers Longflap along with his clothes etc.  That is way beyond what I could cope with.

There's probably a weight factor too, thinking about it.  A heavier rider isn't going to notice the weight of luggage as much, so their comfort tradeoff will be different.  Personally, a few more kilos makes hardly any difference on the bike, but a bad night's sleep really slows me down.

[Ham]

I picked up a couple of Altura Fuse 21+21 litre panniers as in https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=101191.msg2159770#msg2159770 which I find great. Lightweight and waterproof, not much different from many front panniers, they have 2 d-rings allowing them to be carried on one strap.

[bikepacker]

There's probably a weight factor too, thinking about it.  A heavier rider isn't going to notice the weight of luggage as much, so their comfort tradeoff will be different.

I think you are talking about me.  A heavier rider I may be but I still notice the weight.