Drive train cleaning

[mattc]

Is there any advantage to putting any of these parts through the ultrasonic cleaner?

Thanks

Yes: you will become skilled in de-crudding your USC.

HTH ...

[quixoticgeek]

Is there any advantage to putting any of these parts through the ultrasonic cleaner?

Thanks

Yes: you will become skilled in de-crudding your USC.

HTH ...

Ok that actually made me Laugh out loud...

I spent the afternoon with the hackspace ultrasonic cleaner today cleaning my old bike chain. It hit 0.75% stretch to I took it off and replaced it. I then gave it a few hours in turps, a few hours in washing up liquid/water, some turps again, a few days this time, more washing up liquid, some generic surface cleaner, and then today 20 mins in the ultrasonic cleaner. The water that came out was a dim dark grey icky colour, even after all the pre cleaning that had gone into the chain. But it did make a big difference and my hands don't turn black when I touch it. The chain is now in a bag with some rice to dry it out. Once dry, I'll make some ear rings...

J

[Brucey]

I didn't invent this regime. A TDF mechanic did.

...in 1950-something. You can do better than that now.

cheers

It was a 1980's mechanic....

he was just doing what they all had been doing for decades.

BTW a hot jetwash is available at a lot of garages. Go with a few friends and do several bikes at once. Only for those who have good seals and  know where not to point the lance.

cheers

[Brucey]

[quote author=Jakob W link=topic=106833.msg2256179#msg2256179 date=1518371404

What kind of optical microscope do you need for this kind of analysis, Brucey? I'm guessing the 600x magnification kids' microscope I've got is probably not powerful enough?
[/quote]

might be good enough, might not. Magnification is one thing, resolution is quite another, and having the right illumination is important too. 

I have spent some time looking at metal particles under microscopes. An SEM would nail it but sadly I don't have one of those.... .  I developed and tested a simple oil filtration improvement that fits onto petrol and diesel engines, and part of that involved looking at tiny particles that would pass through an ordinary oil filter but would be big enough to cause trouble in shell bearings.

To that end (and for other purposes) I bought a Reichert Zetopan microscope; this does transmitted and incident light work so is very versatile. I have a digital camera attachment for it too.  Small wear particles can be suspended in oil between two slides, illuminated with transmitted light, and once a magnet is wafted nearby, you can see if they are ferromagnetic or not. For really high magnification work there are oil immersion lenses that let you get up close in a big way.

  I don't know what the smallest sized particles that I can image is, in fact, as I was primary interested in those in the range 1-5um previously, which are going to cause most trouble in an engine, and smaller particles would be arrested  by the system I was using anyway.

cheers

[giropaul]

A lower end KMC chain( 10 speed, no fancy cutouts or colour) is £12 to £13. In scaggy winter conditions a chain picks up grit etc and gets very dirty. Personally, I keep it clean with a good wipe over, but once it’s a take off bike or deeper clean needed I save time and grime by just fitting a new one. I’ve learnt ( the hard way) that this saves having to buy new cassettes and chainrings - which certainly aren’t cheap

[Whitestone]

I think there's so much <insert favourite personal pejorative term here> on the roads that no matter what you do to clean the drive train you'll soon end up with it black and as full of gunk as ever. A brand new drive train on my road bike takes less than a couple of hundred miles to turn from the original silver/grey to black. I'll go several months on the MTB to get to anywhere near the same state, even then it's still obviously a silver chain, etc.

As for cleaning: I use an old toothbrush and a citrus based degreaser.

[quixoticgeek]

A lower end KMC chain( 10 speed, no fancy cutouts or colour) is £12 to £13. In scaggy winter conditions a chain picks up grit etc and gets very dirty. Personally, I keep it clean with a good wipe over, but once it’s a take off bike or deeper clean needed I save time and grime by just fitting a new one. I’ve learnt ( the hard way) that this saves having to buy new cassettes and chainrings - which certainly aren’t cheap

Agreed. That's why I asked about the rest of the drive train, rather than the chain.

The comment about cleaning the chain is because I killed the first chain on the first bike I built myself, I thought I'd use this now useless collection of metal to make something from it. In this case I am thinking a pair of ear rings... or maybe a nice pendant for a necklace... It seems that unless I get a forge so I can rework the metal, when it comes to reuse/recycle the only other avenues are to turn it into something artistic...

Tho I think that I may have to get a chain with hollow pins next time, there's some ear ring designs which work so much better with hollow pins...

J

[Zed43]

[recycling a chain] In this case I am thinking a pair of ear rings...

I keep reading about how us cyclists should spend more time stretching, but I'm slightly puzzled on how stretching ones ear lobes would be of benefit.

[quixoticgeek]

[recycling a chain] In this case I am thinking a pair of ear rings...

I keep reading about how us cyclists should spend more time stretching, but I'm slightly puzzled on how stretching ones ear lobes would be of benefit.

Dunno, I wasn't planning on stretching my ears. At least no more than the tiny current hole through them....

J

[davidg]

Whenever you buy a replacement chain, always buy an extra identical chains. This means you can rotate them. It take only 5 mins to switch the chains, allowing you to clean and lubricate the dirty one at your leisure.

My favourite cleaning routine is:
1. split chain, immerse in old plastic bottle containing ~10 cm white spirit.
2. Shake, decant dirty white spirit to another plastic bottle.
3.  wipe clean chain, allow to dry.
4. Submerge chain in tin of chainsaw oil for 5 mins (allows oil to penetrate)
5. hang up chain to drip surplus oil a few hours/overnight.

The next time you switch the chains, reuse the same white, pour slowly to avoid transferring gunge at the bottom.
Chain saw oil - from Screwfix. Contains anti-fling additive to minimize oil spraying onto back wheel.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I find that the biggest issue with splitting a 10/11 speed chain is finding the quicklink. And usually on first fitting I use the shimano rivet thing, so splitting it means forcing out a solid-factory rivet - damaging the plate in the process.

This really isn't something I relish doing (unlike the days of 8 speed chains). Hence I'm dubious about the benefits of your technique.  I'd rather give the chain a good clean in situ than risk weakening it.

[Brucey]

I find that the biggest issue with splitting a 10/11 speed chain is finding the quicklink. And usually on first fitting I use the shimano rivet thing, so splitting it means forcing out a solid-factory rivet - damaging the plate in the process.

This really isn't something I relish doing (unlike the days of 8 speed chains). Hence I'm dubious about the benefits of your technique.  I'd rather give the chain a good clean in situ than risk weakening it.

well, don't use the shimano rivet then....?  Anyway I don't see what the objection really is; the weakened sideplates are thrown away when you fit a QL.

The advantage of chain rotation is that you can 'refresh' your drive train in a few minutes by fitting a clean chain.  If you just do this every couple of weeks anyway the transmission will last a long time.  You can clean the dirty chains when you feel like it.

cheers

[Kim]

The Sheldon Shake is certainly my preferred chain cleaning method, but the problem as I see it with having multiple chains on rotation is that you've now got two dirty chains that you've failed to get round to cleaning.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I find that the biggest issue with splitting a 10/11 speed chain is finding the quicklink. And usually on first fitting I use the shimano rivet thing, so splitting it means forcing out a solid-factory rivet - damaging the plate in the process.

This really isn't something I relish doing (unlike the days of 8 speed chains). Hence I'm dubious about the benefits of your technique.  I'd rather give the chain a good clean in situ than risk weakening it.

well, don't use the shimano rivet then....?  Anyway I don't see what the objection really is; the weakened sideplates are thrown away when you fit a QL.

The advantage of chain rotation is that you can 'refresh' your drive train in a few minutes by fitting a clean chain.  If you just do this every couple of weeks anyway the transmission will last a long time.  You can clean the dirty chains when you feel like it.

cheers

Yeah - and if you fit a QL, you have to find the damn thing when the chain is dirty!

[zigzag]

i've seen/read somewhere that a toilet brush* (choose the one with dense bristles) dipped in a degreaser solution is a very suitable tool for cleaning chainrings and cassette. i haven't tried this method myself yet, but am going to in the near future.

*not the one in your wc

[Feanor]

The maintenance regime for my commuter bike is quite high.
Pretty much every weekend (particulatly in winter) the chain, cassette and chainset is removed and given a thorough clean.

Of course, this is not without it's risks.

[Brucey]

Yeah - and if you fit a QL, you have to find the damn thing when the chain is dirty!

Just run the chain through a rag and you will soon see it. If you really struggle to see the QL for some reason (not everyone is sharp-eyed), consider buying QLs with a distinctive appearance, such as wippermann connex ones.

cheers

[rafletcher]

i've seen/read somewhere that a toilet brush* (choose the one with dense bristles) dipped in a degreaser solution is a very suitable tool for cleaning chainrings and cassette. i haven't tried this method myself yet, but am going to in the near future.

*not the one in your wc

A washing up brush is a bit more  weildly, but I have a narrow brush specifically meant for inter-cog cleaning. A toothbrush does for the jockey wheels, after screwdriver assisted slog removal.

I use a chain cleaning tool - the Park one - for a quick clean. A deep clean is additional, off the bike, and the cleaning tool clean lets me find the quick link more easily.