New DMR V8's

[nobby]

My new pedals have arrived properly boxed and with syringe of grease.
They do not spin nicely. They graunch their way around.
I am assuming that they are preset at the factory so should I run them for a bit or grease before use?

Anybody know, please?

[Brucey]

the pedals have adjustable bearings. They (like every hub, headset etc which also employs adjustable bearings) don't come out of the factory perfectly adjusted.

If you are remotely fussy you will want to adjust these pedals sooner or later anyway, and when they are new it is a lot nicer work than when they are filthy dirty.

You can adjust the pedals whilst they are fitted in the cranks but it is easier to do if you have a bench vice.
You will need a small flat blade screwdriver and a 13mm (sometimes 12mm) socket.

1) Pry the dustcap out of the pedal using the small screwdriver

2) note the orientation of the cone (which has a hexagonal end), beneath the locknut (also hexagonal)

3) Back the locknut off (ACW, about half a turn). You will see that the cone (and maybe the tab washer above it)  moves slightly, within the backlash allowed by the tab washer

4) Using the small screwdriver, back the cone off (ACW) about 1/30th of a turn

5) retighten the locknut (about 8ftlbs), and test the free play/smoothness of the bearing.

6) If you are happy, add a bit more grease to the bearing if it needs it, and refit the dustcap.

You may find that this procedure is a little hit and miss; this is because the tab washer allows a small amount of movement between the parts, and it doesn't always move exactly as you might expect. It is normal to have a few goes before the adjustment is perfect.

One full turn of adjustment is worth 1250 microns in most cases so even 1/30th of a turn is worth about 42 microns.  You will feel 40 microns of preload (it is probably how the pedals are set at present) and you will feel 40 microns of slack.

It is normal to have to adjust the pedals after about six months of use, as the bearings 'run in', whether they are perfectly set from the start or not. Thereafter they do not need frequent attention unless water gets into the bearings, or you run out of grease.

cheers

[nobby]

Thank you.

[Oxford_Guy]

the pedals have adjustable bearings. They (like every hub, headset etc which also employs adjustable bearings) don't come out of the factory perfectly adjusted.

If you are remotely fussy you will want to adjust these pedals sooner or later anyway, and when they are new it is a lot nicer work than when they are filthy dirty.

You can adjust the pedals whilst they are fitted in the cranks but it is easier to do if you have a bench vice.
You will need a small flat blade screwdriver and a 13mm (sometimes 12mm) socket.

1) Pry the dustcap out of the pedal using the small screwdriver

2) note the orientation of the cone (which has a hexagonal end), beneath the locknut (also hexagonal)

3) Back the locknut off (ACW, about half a turn). You will see that the cone (and maybe the tab washer above it)  moves slightly, within the backlash allowed by the tab washer

4) Using the small screwdriver, back the cone off (ACW) about 1/30th of a turn

5) retighten the locknut (about 8ftlbs), and test the free play/smoothness of the bearing.

6) If you are happy, add a bit more grease to the bearing if it needs it, and refit the dustcap.

You may find that this procedure is a little hit and miss; this is because the tab washer allows a small amount of movement between the parts, and it doesn't always move exactly as you might expect. It is normal to have a few goes before the adjustment is perfect.

One full turn of adjustment is worth 1250 microns in most cases so even 1/30th of a turn is worth about 42 microns.  You will feel 40 microns of preload (it is probably how the pedals are set at present) and you will feel 40 microns of slack.

It is normal to have to adjust the pedals after about six months of use, as the bearings 'run in', whether they are perfectly set from the start or not. Thereafter they do not need frequent attention unless water gets into the bearings, or you run out of grease.

Would similar adjustments be required for traditional loose hub bearings? Just asking as I picked up a NOS Campagnolo Chorus 32H front wheel hub of eBay recently from the 1990s, it's in fantastic condition, but I can feel a little resistance when spinning it. I'm guessing the grease may also be a bit dried out and need replacing too. It's the old sort with the (not very useful, but charming) oil port in the middle (like the old Record hubs).

[Torslanda]

If it's never run and the grease is a quarter of a century old then strip, clean and regrease it before building the wheel.

Back on topic, do DMRs still have the 2mm hex grub screw just inboard of the inner bearing? It's a handy grease port if you have a needle grease gun...

[Brucey]

If it's never run and the grease is a quarter of a century old then strip, clean and regrease it before building the wheel.

Back on topic, do DMRs still have the 2mm hex grub screw just inboard of the inner bearing? It's a handy grease port if you have a needle grease gun...

I think so, and they also come with a syringe of grease to use in it.  Not as good as grease gun obviously but better than nothing.

Re Campag hubs.  Best to clean and regrease them like Tors says.  The lube port will allow you to spray GT85 into the hubs (best to spin them awhile too) a couple of days before stripping the hubs; this will make cleaning the dried grease somewhat easier.

FWIW it is pointless trying to set the bearings in a cup and cone hub before the wheel is built; the reason is that the spoke tension elastically deforms the hubshells and this throws the adjustment off.

Final adjustment is complicated by the fact that a well tightened QR squashes the axle by about 80 microns or so, which is a country mile in bearing adjustment terms. Basically if there is no free play with the QR loose, the hub bearings are set too tightly and will be under a very high preload when the QR is tight. You won't feel this with good quality hubs, because the bearings will still be smooth, but that doesn't mean you are not wringing the life out them.

 The correct adjustment is a little free play that just disappears when the QR is used to tighten the wheel in the frame. You can use a thing called a hub vice (*) to facilitate this adjustment; it allows the hub to be adjusted whilst the QR pressure is applied, and you know you have got it right when you have no free play with the QR tight, but there is some with the QR half-tight.

Hubs that are so adjusted will (if also kept lubricated adequately and free from contamination) spin freely for tens of thousands of miles. Even fairly inexpensive hubs from Taiwan that are used on OEM wheels will last OK if thus adjusted. 

Having carried out various tests I have come to the conclusion that most hubs do not die of natural causes; they are murdered.  99 times out of a hundred if you pull a hub apart and the cones are pitted but there is no sign of water ingress, the culprit is that the hubs were not adjusted correctly.

Sadly most bike shops don't know how to do it correctly and most customers complain if they feel a little free play in the bearings when the wheel is out of the frame, even....

Ho hum....

(NB (*) which is not the same thing as an axle vice even if some folk use the same name for that.)

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

Thanks again for the information Brucey!

[nobby]

If it's never run and the grease is a quarter of a century old then strip, clean and regrease it before building the wheel.

Back on topic, do DMRs still have the 2mm hex grub screw just inboard of the inner bearing? It's a handy grease port if you have a needle grease gun...

Mine have the 'grease port'. To reach both inner and outer bearings is going to take a lot of grease. I can't see the amount in the supplied syringe being enough for even one pedal.

The vendor told me that the bearings will bed in and that the pedals have a 12 month guarantee anyway. I'm not happy with bearings that don't spin freely so I took them apart as per Brucey's instructions and realised that in my tool box I have the DMR cone spanner. With a 12mm box spanner slid inside it adjustment was easy.
One outer bearing was ungreased and both were over tight.

[Brucey]

the weather usually threatens the inboard bearing first; the idea of the lube port/syringe is that you can forestall problems in the inboard bearing rather than sort  both bearings out via the lube port. It is not a perfect arrangement but far better than nothing.

BTW prompted by this thread as much as anything, yesterday I adjusted a set of V8s that had been lurking in the spares stash for a while.  They had worn by ~50 microns or so (judging by the amount of adjustment required to remove the free play), and probably hadn't been adjusted before. I didn't bother to clean anything, I just adjusted them and added a bit of fresh grease to both bearings; the outboard directly whilst the dustcap was off, and the inboard one via the lube port, using a grease gun loaded with some SFG. Took about ten minutes to do and the pedals will now last a fair while longer I think.

cheers

[nobby]

the weather usually threatens the inboard bearing first; the idea of the lube port/syringe is that you can forestall problems in the inboard bearing rather than sort  both bearings out via the lube port. It is not a perfect arrangement but far better than nothing.

BTW prompted by this thread as much as anything, yesterday I adjusted a set of V8s that had been lurking in the spares stash for a while.  They had worn by ~50 microns or so (judging by the amount of adjustment required to remove the free play), and probably hadn't been adjusted before. I didn't bother to clean anything, I just adjusted them and added a bit of fresh grease to both bearings; the outboard directly whilst the dustcap was off, and the inboard one via the lube port, using a grease gun loaded with some SFG. Took about ten minutes to do and the pedals will now last a fair while longer I think.

cheers

SFG?

[Jakob W]

Semi-Fluid Grease. Were there a British Semi-Fluid Grease Manufacturer's Association I might suspect Brucey of being on their payroll, but as there isn't, I'm going to assume that they are actually a good solution to many bicycle lubrication problems

[nobby]

Semi-Fluid Grease. Were there a British Semi-Fluid Grease Manufacturer's Association I might suspect Brucey of being on their payroll, but as there isn't, I'm going to assume that they are actually a good solution to many bicycle lubrication problems

Ah, thank you. Any recommended manufacturers of SFG?
My lubricants are normally waterproof grease from my 'racer's LBS' or copper grease for dissimilar metal threads.

[Jakob W]

For pedals etc. I believe Land Rover front swivel grease works well. It's loaded with corrosion inhibitors and other additives; the only downside is these make it black and smelly.

[nobby]

For pedals etc. I believe Land Rover front swivel grease works well. It's loaded with corrosion inhibitors and other additives; the only downside is these make it black and smelly.

Thank you

[Brucey]

yup the land rover SFG is (of SFGs that you can buy fairly readily) pretty good stuff. 'Black and stinky' in this case means it is full of additives  that are good for bearings.


SFG usually has similar viscosity properties to tomato ketchup; it stays put well enough when the bike isn't being used but it is, once sheared. (and in contrast to a typical #2 grease)  mobile within the bearing. This gives it a fighting chance of


a) penetrating from the lube port to the bearing and

b) fending off inevitable attacks from winter road salt etc.


The downside is that if any of this particular lube gets on your clothes, they are ruined


cheers

[zigzag]

are there any non-smelly/clean alternatives (think vaseline, but softer)?

[Brucey]

there are any number of other greases that are cleaner and will provide some lubrication but at best these are mostly inert and only provide protection against corrosion until they are displaced. Once corrosion starts in the exposed parts of the bearing, most lubes fail wholesale and the bearing is soon on the way out. The black horribleness is what makes it a better choice than that.


A relatively clean alternative is finish line ptfe grease.  Not as corrosion resistant or as mobile as an SFG.


cheers

[PhilO]

A fair approximation of An SFG can be made by mixing a little gear oil into a standard grease.  You get the improved mobility of a proper sfg, but none of the other advantages, of course.

[Brucey]

Would similar adjustments be required for traditional loose hub bearings? ...

yes, always, whether the grease is dry or not.

 The correct adjustment for a QR hub is a little free play that just disappears as the QR is fully tightened.

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

Would similar adjustments be required for traditional loose hub bearings? ...

yes, always, whether the grease is dry or not.

 The correct adjustment for a QR hub is a little free play that just disappears as the QR is fully tightened.

Thanks!

[RichMoss]

... You can use a thing called a hub vice (*) to facilitate this adjustment; it allows the hub to be adjusted whilst the QR pressure is applied, and you know you have got it right when you have no free play with the QR tight, but there is some with the QR half-tight.
(NB (*) which is not the same thing as an axle vice even if some folk use the same name for that.)

cheers

Although relevant to hubs rather than pedals, Sheldon Brown has a description of a "Special tool for rapid cone adjustment under load" if you click here and scroll down a bit.

[Brucey]

thanks for posting that link, I didn't get around to it

cheers