Author Topic: Getting me back onto the tandem  (Read 4093 times)

Getting me back onto the tandem
« on: 22 July, 2014, 07:00:29 pm »
I have a confession to make: I have gone from a regular long distance tandemmer to very little tandem riding at all over the last few years.  I used to regularly ride with Andy Cox, but we've only done a handful of rides together on it since we split a few years ago. I've been back in possession of the beastie for about a year now, and have been trying to get my current partner out and about on it.

He's an experienced rider, but he can't get on with the front of the tandem.  I'll think we are going ok, but he's a ball of tension at the front, sweating like crazy.  So the new tactic is that I will ride the front, and he'll provide power at the back.  So what I'm looking for is tips on how to ride with a bigger, stronger rider on the back.  Unfortunately, he's big enough that him twitching around on the back is unstable.  Also, I need him to have a foot down to start as I can't hold his weight; but sometimes he doesn't commit to the start-off and him attempting to scoot while as I commit leads to us hurtling sideways.  I'm slightly nervous that he's trying to ride as if he is on solo...

What are other people's experiences of having the stronger & heavier rider at the back?  Is there a trick, or should we just persevere?

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Getting me back onto the tandem
« Reply #1 on: 22 July, 2014, 07:06:11 pm »
A fair chunk of it seems to be about the bike.

Re: Getting me back onto the tandem
« Reply #2 on: 22 July, 2014, 07:10:30 pm »
In my experience: loosen your grip and let the bike sway as it wants to. It will still ride in a straight line. Re setting off, it's just practice and getting confident with each others style.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Getting me back onto the tandem
« Reply #3 on: 22 July, 2014, 07:17:41 pm »
Tell him to close his eyes, trust you and just do what you say. I've captained and stoked and it makes enough of a difference.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Getting me back onto the tandem
« Reply #4 on: 22 July, 2014, 11:41:28 pm »
I'm not strong enough to hold up a number of stokers. Curiously, I find tall stokers to be much more problematic than the heavier, shorter ones, even where the mass difference is quite marked.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Julian

  • samoture
Re: Getting me back onto the tandem
« Reply #5 on: 23 July, 2014, 10:14:25 am »
It sounds like he doesn't want to ride a tandem but, knowing it's something you like, would rather it be something that you "both" decide just doesn't work for you than something he takes responsibility for you not doing.  Consciously or unconsciously is he sabotaging (strong word, dilute as appropriate) the ride?

Re: Getting me back onto the tandem
« Reply #6 on: 23 July, 2014, 11:49:19 am »
It sounds like he doesn't want to ride a tandem but, knowing it's something you like, would rather it be something that you "both" decide just doesn't work for you than something he takes responsibility for you not doing.  Consciously or unconsciously is he sabotaging (strong word, dilute as appropriate) the ride?

Not necessarily. I'm a terribly nervous stoker and would tend, at least at first, involuntarily, to commit the crimes that Jassa mentions. I'd improve with practice, and with getting used to the captain's riding style.

jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Getting me back onto the tandem
« Reply #7 on: 23 July, 2014, 12:09:21 pm »
I've only ridden as stoker once.It's not likely to happen again.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Getting me back onto the tandem
« Reply #8 on: 23 July, 2014, 12:18:40 pm »
From my limited experience on various ends of tandems:

Riding as a captain is basically riding a bike, with a couple of gotchas involving communication.

Riding as a stoker is a different skill, equivalent to riding a recumbent.  It's not hard to pick up the basics, but takes practice to become decently good at it.  As well as the communication gotchas.

I wouldn't expect a newbie recumbent rider to be able to reliably do tight turns or start on steep hills without several hundred miles of experience.  I don't think expecting a stoker to manage flawless foot-down starts or not wobble about without warning is any different.

Re: Getting me back onto the tandem
« Reply #9 on: 23 July, 2014, 02:03:11 pm »
It sounds like he doesn't want to ride a tandem but, knowing it's something you like, would rather it be something that you "both" decide just doesn't work for you than something he takes responsibility for you not doing.  Consciously or unconsciously is he sabotaging (strong word, dilute as appropriate) the ride?

Not necessarily. I'm a terribly nervous stoker and would tend, at least at first, involuntarily, to commit the crimes that Jassa mentions. I'd improve with practice, and with getting used to the captain's riding style.

He seems to enjoy being on the back a lot more than the front, but he's still trying to ride like he's on his own bike.  I suspect that when he is looking at obstacles he's shifting his weight too. 

Wow - interesting that you have a problem with taller riders.  He's pretty much the same height as me, just heavier, so maybe that's an advantage.

We've done off-road cycle path, which was ok, but unfortunately we live somewhere fairly hilly, so can't easily work up to the hills.  It's a case of do it or walk  :(  Maybe I'll get some knee pads.

Re: Getting me back onto the tandem
« Reply #10 on: 23 July, 2014, 02:09:37 pm »
As LWaB says, ask him to close his eyes. He could also try riding cross-armed, trike-learner style.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Getting me back onto the tandem
« Reply #11 on: 23 July, 2014, 02:28:13 pm »
I'm a very nervous stoker, and a moderately nervous pilot.
Getting there...

Chris S

Re: Getting me back onto the tandem
« Reply #12 on: 23 July, 2014, 02:41:20 pm »
That's interesting what you say - he prefers the back to the front, because I'd imagine that for a lot of people, the reverse would be true. Relinquishing all control can be a tough nut to crack - my boys hated it when they tried it.

Fboab sometimes bemoans the fact that she has "nothing to do", but generally uses the excuse reason - "I won't fit" as justification to not try reversal of positions.

With you on the front, and he on the back - you're likely to need both of you to have feet down when stopped. Even if you're strong, there's the whole stand over height thing at the front - if you're to support him at the back, you'll need to place your feet wider apart and the tubing may not permit that. We never even tried that - we're both fixed-gear riders, and have never had the "need" to freewheel as part of the getaway, so we naturally both do the fixed-gear getaway. Of course, that teaches you to always make a "positive" getaway - there's no room for dithering!

If he's stronger than you, you might feel a surging from the back. When fboab is putting in a stint to help me out (happens a lot lately) there's definitely a feeling of surging from the back. Whether changing the pedal phasing would help that, I've not investigated.

ETA: Who has the gear controls? Hills are just about gearing and speed, and shouldn't affect him at the back - although I can see that if he's fidgety, then at slow speed that might be destabilising.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Getting me back onto the tandem
« Reply #13 on: 23 July, 2014, 02:43:25 pm »
Changing pedal phase does smooth things out but is usually a pain when riding out of the saddle.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Getting me back onto the tandem
« Reply #14 on: 23 July, 2014, 02:49:07 pm »
...When fboab is putting in a stint to help me out (happens a lot lately) there's definitely a feeling of surging from the back. Whether changing the pedal phasing would help that, I've not investigated.

Smoother pedalling; lower gear?

I have suffered a nodding-donkey style stoker (power put in for approx 5o of the stroke). It destroys your own rhythm as well, so more than half the power lost.

Si_Co

Re: Getting me back onto the tandem
« Reply #15 on: 24 July, 2014, 12:19:52 pm »
I've only ridden as stoker once.It's not likely to happen again.

PMSL

jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Getting me back onto the tandem
« Reply #16 on: 24 July, 2014, 01:01:10 pm »
I've only ridden as stoker once.It's not likely to happen again.

PMSL

as you did,at my expense, when piloting you little  :demon:

 ;)