Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: quixoticgeek on 04 July, 2019, 10:03:29 pm
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Pending finalisation of the details. We're planning to run a 1000km BRM centred around Bunnik, near Utrecht, next May.
Exact date is still tbc, but the route will be 3 loops of 400, 300 & 300. There will be the option of riding any of the loops independently as a 400 or 300 BRM, for those who don't fancy the whole 1000.
I'll post more info as I get it, but thought I'd give people the heads up for when you all start planning your travels for next year. Bunnik is easy to get to from the Hoek ferry, or the Eurostar to Amsterdam.
J
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Thanks for posting a heads-up QG :thumbsup:
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In the calendar!
I think a full 1000 may be a bit out of my time budget that time of year but if there could be a means to do the 400 and then do some support for the other 300s then I may be able to make time, if you are going to use conventional controls or otherwise just want some relief at arrivée etc.
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75 hours but only 2 nights and 3 loops, how does it work?
Night start?
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Thanks you for the heads up, I do fancy a 1000 next year :)
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75 hours but only 2 nights and 3 loops, how does it work?
Night start?
That's the logical conclusion ;)
The aim set this spring is to provide an easy 1000. Far too many 1000k events are geared towards fast ligthweight riders and/or require decent survival skills.
So the aim was set at a 1000 with only a bit of climbing and support in the form of sleep, foot and your kit at regular intervals.
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75 hours but only 2 nights and 3 loops, how does it work?
Night start?
Start at 21:00. Arrive back at main control between 18:00 and 23:59 the next day. Sleep, do 300, sleep do, 300 and have until midnight to finish. ??
Faster riders can have a more relaxed ride with long sleep and meal stops. Pushing on to finish earlier seems a little pointless.
It for the purists who think you should never be behind the clock maybe a midnight start so you wont be out of time at the first control after the sleep stop on day 2
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Similar set up to the Mille Alba a few years back. One of the big pluses was when you got "weather" you knew there was the opportunity for a shower and a change of kit at the end of the day.
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75 hours but only 2 nights and 3 loops, how does it work?
Night start?
Start at 21:00. Arrive back at main control between 18:00 and 23:59 the next day. Sleep, do 300, sleep do, 300 and have until midnight to finish. ??
Faster riders can have a more relaxed ride with long sleep and meal stops. Pushing on to finish earlier seems a little pointless.
It for the purists who think you should never be behind the clock maybe a midnight start so you wont be out of time at the first control after the sleep stop on day 2
This level of purism is not very popular in the Netherlands ;)
The usual starttime for a 300 is 8 or 9am.
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Are you aiming towards the start or end of May? I might be tempted to pop over with (new as yet unbuilt) recumbent if it falls over a UK B/H weekend. A somewhat flatter warmup of the legs and bike ahead of WAWA in June.
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Are you aiming towards the start or end of May? I might be tempted to pop over with recumbent if it falls over a UK B/H weekend. A somewhat flatter warmup of the legs and bike ahead of WAWA in June.
Right now we're looking at starting on the 21st. It's a public holiday in .NL. The Monday is a bank holiday in the UK. It was the best combo we could come up with.
This is all still provisional, but probably a good idea to save the date.
J
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So the aim was set at a 1000 with only a bit of climbing and support in the form of sleep, foot and your kit at regular intervals.
Ivo, do riders have the choice of which foot you'll be supporting?
:P
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So the aim was set at a 1000 with only a bit of climbing and support in the form of sleep, foot and your kit at regular intervals.
Ivo, do riders have the choice of which foot you'll be supporting?
:P
Which ever you choose, make sure you wash your hands lots :p
J
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Are you aiming towards the start or end of May? I might be tempted to pop over with recumbent if it falls over a UK B/H weekend. A somewhat flatter warmup of the legs and bike ahead of WAWA in June.
Right now we're looking at starting on the 21st. It's a public holiday in .NL. The Monday is a bank holiday in the UK. It was the best combo we could come up with.
This is all still provisional, but probably a good idea to save the date.
J
That's great - but what time will it start? Is it a secret?? :P
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That's great - but what time will it start? Is it a secret?? :P
It's not a secret, we're just still arguing about what time is best. There's strong opinions for both an 0600 start, and an evening start.
J
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ok fair enough - but it is quite an important difference!
Good luck getting stuff sorted :thumbsup:
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sounds interesting.
and well done for stepping forward to organise a biggie. :thumbsup:
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That sounds like a nice 1000, quixoticgeek! I will at least ride part of it (depending on my other plans). In terms of timing, isn't 300-400-300 a better sequence? For the faster riders, that would allow for a more natural schedule: day 1, start at 8:00, complete 300k around 22:00. Then day 2, start at 4:00, complete 400k around midnight. On day 3, you can do the remaining 300 at a leisurely pace.
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Graeme's West Highlands had it right: 2000 start, 400+ overnight and Day 1; <300 Day 2 (back to Oban); <300 Day 3 finishing in a pub (75 hours meant finish by 2300). As long a stopover as a rider's speed allowed in between. Starting at 8am means fuller value riders are 'forced' to ride at their most fatiqued through the last night and into the morning.
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But a night start forces everyone straight into sleep deprivation, so fuller value riders spend the whole time in sleep dep?
The 8am start on the Fort William 1000 worked reasonably well for me although not quite full value, 8am start 320km, 1am sleep 3, set off at 5, 300km sleep 3, 85km sleep .5, 320km with a 1.5hr snooze in a bus shelter at shap, in for 7am think I was 4th or 5th last back.
Biggest problem was I didn't eat enough on day 1
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But a night start forces everyone straight into sleep deprivation, so fuller value riders spend the whole time in sleep dep?
The 8am start on the Fort William 1000 worked reasonably well for me although not quite full value, 8am start 320km, 1am sleep 3, set off at 5, 300km sleep 3, 85km sleep .5, 320km with a 1.5hr snooze in a bus shelter at shap, in for 7am think I was 4th or 5th last back.
Biggest problem was I didn't eat enough on day 1
Fuller value riders will do that anyway. With a 400 300 300 ride split. By starting ain the morning you are forcing everyone especially the full value riders to reach the sleep control in the morning each time and be riding each leg in the night unnecessarily.
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But a night start forces everyone straight into sleep deprivation, so fuller value riders spend the whole time in sleep dep?
The 8am start on the Fort William 1000 worked reasonably well for me although not quite full value, 8am start 320km, 1am sleep 3, set off at 5, 300km sleep 3, 85km sleep .5, 320km with a 1.5hr snooze in a bus shelter at shap, in for 7am think I was 4th or 5th last back.
Biggest problem was I didn't eat enough on day 1
Fuller value riders will do that anyway. With a 400 300 300 ride split. By starting ain the morning you are forcing everyone especially the full value riders to reach the sleep control in the morning each time and be riding each leg in the night unnecessarily.
Doh yes, forgot about the 400km first leg.
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Graeme's West Highlands had it right: 2000 start, 400+ overnight and Day 1; <300 Day 2 (back to Oban); <300 Day 3 finishing in a pub (75 hours meant finish by 2300). As long a stopover as a rider's speed allowed in between. Starting at 8am means fuller value riders are 'forced' to ride at their most fatiqued through the last night and into the morning.
Ta very much!
The start time for a 1000 is tricky.
In the end i concluded that 8pm was the least worst option for the WH1000, recognising that evening starts wont suit a'body. Using a location other than start/finish as an intermediate base was copied from Milly Cymru.
Full value riders needed "only" to ride one night at the beginning when freshest and then two loooong daytime rides followed.
Having a proper full service control at 100 km was a deliberate attempt to make life a bit easier for riders who aren't suited to an evening start. A rider on the time limit would have left Comrie at 0330 by which stage there was daylight.
I reckon that worked better than the Mille Alba in 2012 which had a morning start and a 340-280-280-100 configuration. Edit - it was actually 351-318-265-71
(all of which reminds me that I had an idea for a nice York - Aberdeen - York 1000 that I must dust down sometime).
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Graeme's West Highlands had it right: 2000 start, 400+ overnight and Day 1; <300 Day 2 (back to Oban); <300 Day 3 finishing in a pub (75 hours meant finish by 2300). As long a stopover as a rider's speed allowed in between. Starting at 8am means fuller value riders are 'forced' to ride at their most fatiqued through the last night and into the morning.
The start time for a 1000 is tricky.
I concluded that 8pm was the least worst option for the WH1000, recognising that evening starts wont suit a'body. Full value riders needed "only" to ride one night at the beginning when freshest and then two loooong daytime rides followed.
Having a proper full service control at 100 km was a deliberate attempt to make life a bit easier for riders who aren't suited to an evening start. A rider on the time limit would have left Comrie at 0330 by which stage there was daylight.
An 8pm start meant riders could travel by train from anywhere in the country in a day and get to Edinburgh rested and ready to rock and roll (out). And 75 hours later was closing time at the pub so from both riders and organiser's PoV, that evening was excellent, for the fast ones and for those of fuller value. The White Church hospitality at Comrie (100k) was 'on the money' and I'm sure every rider really benefited from that food around midnight to fuel them for the night and day down and up the Kintyre peninsula. I was apprehensive about riding 456k in a 'oner' but thanks to timings, Comrie, Ardrishaig shop early opening, and company on the road, it went well. Though maybe 10 hours at Oban's YH that night and 9 the following night was a bit lax.
Please run WH1000 again, but less the hour's 'biblical' downpour before Ardgour/Corran ferry, along Loch Linnhe. Deano's 1000 is in early May, this Hart van Nederland on 21 May, and then it's the grimpfests: the Crackpot in late June and Andy's Mille Pennines in early July. The gap's there.
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The start time for a 1000 is tricky.
In the end i concluded that 8pm was the least worst option for the WH1000, recognising that evening starts wont suit a'body. Using a location other than start/finish as an intermediate base was copied from Milly Cymru.
Full value riders needed "only" to ride one night at the beginning when freshest and then two loooong daytime rides followed.
<snip ...>
I reckon that worked better than the Mille Alba in 2012 which had a morning start and a 340-280-280-100 configuration. Edit - it was actually 351-318-265-71
Yea, I think with a 3-loop route, 8pm is the least worst!
But I do think 3 loops is far from the best way to stage a 75h event - which is a lot longer than 3 days+2 nights, even in midsummer. The Mille Cymru worked really well - we started around 7am IIRC? The secret was a final leg from the "hub" to arrivee. I have no idea of the exact distances! There was also an optional sleep-lite penultimate control.
I seriously doubt I could have done that ride as 3 loops. (partly because these days I refuse to put myself thru the full zombie zone. It's not why I ride audaxes.)
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The recent Paris-Tourmalet 1000 UAF started at 09:00 Sunday and finished midday Wednesday with daily distances of about 240, 300, 330 (because of hotel location) and 140km. At no point did the peloton ride past midnight with 1.5 hour lunches and dinners and hotel beds each night (from memory, 5-6 hours sleep each night). The route and weather was reasonably benign, which helped, but a couple of early starts were needed.
Whatever way a long brevet route is split up, somebody's sleep preferences will be disadvantaged. As long as the organiser/s has put some thought into the problem (e.g. balancing daily distance to available sleep stops, sleep deprivation, accumulated fatigue, traffic intensity/ hills on some roads) and let potential entrants know what the deal is beforehand, pretty much every start time is fair game.
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Starts at 5 or 6 am I regard as the worst for the slower riders. You start then with a sleep deprivation and still have to ride the last night (and usually the 1st night as well).
I've started a fair number of 1000k BRM's. I finished quite a few which started in the evening or afternoon. I finished none which started at 6am.