[LEL17] Mini LEL?

[Exit Stage Left]

The controls furthest from London might be fairly quiet between opening and the arrival of the main bulge of riders, and the controls in Scotland are one way.

Might it be possible to run a 600, starting in York perhaps, using Moffat and Edinburgh for a sleep stop, the outward controls for feeding, and a route avoiding controls on the way back.

That could provide a fall-back goal for entrants whose training might not go as planned.

I suggest York because it has plentiful accommodation, is easy to access by train, and is an interesting tourist destination.

There would be no manned control at York, and riders would finish there to avoid putting load on Pocklington.

York would fit in with prior arrangements for foreign riders. They could travel from London on the Saturday.

[Fidgetbuzz]

It is taking all day most days at the moment to sort out the 1500 riders and their payments .. next will be the rider area .. start times, bag drops and clothing purchases  and I maybe wrong but I envisage substantial queries here .. then volunteers locations and timings then  things like medals ,brevet cards , bags for bag drops, water bottles , ear plugs etc ., barrier deliveries .. on going battle with AUK insurer over price for LEL UK based riders ..never mind controls , incoming signs etc , controllers and their volunteers , first aid skills , hygiene requirements . food menus etc etc

What you trying to do             KILL US ??

[Fidgetbuzz]

and do not forget Danial and Phil have to work for a living .. i am the fortunate unemployed geriatric with time for LEL

[Arry-R]

What you trying to do             KILL US ??


They have no idea whatsoever how it all happens.  If they wanted a 600 then charge pro rata = £136 approx that should do the trick

[Veloman]

Great option for a DIY 600 as a nice route exists and option for anyone to do at a time when LEL is not taking place!

I recal the EPE 600 which used very smiliar terrain and thought what a great event it was.  Reception at Preston control was superb as was the finish. My first 600.

I understand the sentiment behind ESL's post and have no doubt it is well intentioned. But I am also aware of the massive amount of work being undertaken by the LEL team and fully understand the view expressed by FB.

[mattc]

What you trying to do             KILL US ??

They have no idea whatsoever how it all happens.  If they wanted a 600 then charge pro rata = £136 approx that should do the trick

Not sure who "they" are. ESL has a lot of experience running controls in the north of the route.

I don't recall a ban on floating any idea that might create extra work. It takes no effort at all for Roger/Danial/Phil to simply not read this thread.

For this mini-LEL to be feasible it probably requires volunteers outside the core team (ESL?? ) to own the project. I see no harm in tossing ideas around.

[Exit Stage Left]

It occurred to me that people on the wait list might benefit from 'a bird in the hand'. They can then make arrangements for the possiblilty of an LEL place, but know that they have got something to do.

i mulled it over while working today, and thought that a bike bus to a hotel in York from Loughton might be one approach. That would mean that all the arrangements could be the same as for an LEL start. There could also be a tour for accompanying family or friends.

There's an opportunity for an enterprising travel agent to offer a series of packages. York-Edinburgh-London staying at hotels, or even a highlights tour, taking in Castle Howard-Thirsk, The Bowes Museum to Alston. and Innerleithen to Langholm, with the bike bus driving between.

2013 riders expressed an appetite for exploring the  landscape and cultural heritage of the North. The Northern controls on LEL open on the time for the max speed, but aren't fully stretched for 12 hours after that. Shorter rides starting in York and Edinburgh could spread the load, provide more income, and give uncertain riders another option.

There's no need for involvement from LEL 2017 ltd. in administering such an idea, although some sort of swap arrangement for riders wanting to move up or down as places became available on either option might be useful.

Jo's LEL 2013 visualisations would highlight any gaps in control capacity. I did a bit of mental calculation on the contribution to profit of better utilisation of the fixed cost of the controls furthest from London, which is what got me thinking. But I do find myself tending to the idea of providing a leisurely tour of the Northern highlights using hotels and a bike bus.

[redfalo]

I'm sure the volunteers at the controls will be more than happy if you manage to keep them busy - otherwise, their task surely would be way too boring.

[Exit Stage Left]

The introduction of the London start in 2001 helped fill in some of the gaps in the control activity. But it meant that controls were booked for longer than otherwise. There was also an 800 km ride, on the Northern section. That set off a bit earlier, and ran to a higher average speed.

It's that shorter Northern ride I was recalling. A 400 might work better, or indeed an 800. A lot of VC 167 riders wanted to do LEL, not all got in. Perhaps some would be more suited to a 600 as a starter anyway. The same might be true of a number of clubs or national groups.

I'm recovering from an eye operation I had before New Year, so I'm weighing up all options. Riding a motorbike the full distance filming might be possible. But I'd quite like to film from a bicycle, as I used to. The Southern section will be well covered by participants using action cameras, the scenery in the North requires a different approach.

So I thought that it might be nice to film from Castle Howard and back, as that might be achievable with the training time available. If that ride attracts me, others might like it, and I wondered how it might work. A field between 150 and 200 would be manageable on a single card.

 A transfer of funds between the two rides would be a 'fair' way of managing the demands of those on the waiting list who need to arrange for a possible place on the 1400, or those booked on the 1400, who want to transfer to a less daunting ride. Although a 600 on that Northern section is not to be trifled with.

[IanDG]

 

[Exit Stage Left]

The route might be similar to Aidan's York-Langholm-York. Fidgetbuzz rode that one prior to LEL 2013, it takes in a lot of the Northern part of the LEL.

There are a number of accounts online about that. http://www.ourmrsmith.com/whoseideawasthis/york-langholm-york-600km-1st-june/

[IanDG]

Edit:

More work for volunteers? Would the ride impact on volunteer numbers by attracting riders who are thinking of volunteering because they feel riding LEL is too far but 600 isn't?

[Wobbly]

I was hoping the "Mini LEL" would be twice round the car park at Loughton.

I'd be up for that.

[Veloman]

I was hoping the "Mini LEL" would be twice round the car park at Loughton.

I'd be up for that.

Presumably once clockwise and once anti-clockwise to avoid falling foul of regulations regarding riding the same route more than once in the same direction!

[Exit Stage Left]

More work for volunteers and the ride may attract riders who are thinking of volunteering becausee they feel riding LEL is out of reach but a 600 isn't

Part of the inspiration for thinking about this was Danial's plan to bring volunteers from Europe into Manchester, as train and coach connections to the Northern controls are easier from there, and cheaper. He was talking about that at the York meeting' last October.

Brampton had Angela from Taiwan in 2017, and Heather had to pick her up at Brampton station. Another possible approach is to have volunteers move up and down the country in minibuses. If there was a family and friends coach service, volunteers could also use that. Some supporters like to volunteer, but might also want to see some of the country.

I've been part of the build-up to every LEL since 2001, as my partner Heather has run the control nearest Alston. I ended up shopping for most of the food for that control until 2013, when caterers took over.

As the event approaches, everything gets set in stone. Ideas become less and less fluid, which is inevitable and desirable.

One of the feature of PBP is the presence of coaches working for travel agents such as Baxters. They provide bag-drop services, as the logistics for that would be beyond the PBP organisation.

When I started thinking where such a coach service might stop first, York came to mind. Any tour group moves quite slowly, so big leaps would be needed to keep pace with the riders. Heather learned that when she supported me in PBP 2007 and 2011, and it's been our experience when filming LEL and PBP. Organisers have tried to visit all the controls on LEL, and that's the lesson they learn.

So in thinking about those logistical elements; people flying in to Manchester, or other regional airports, and the need for a volunteer transport system. I'm wondering if there is any space for other offers than the 1400 arising from that.

LEL is self-evidently a linear event, and a lot of thinking about is linear, but logistically it isn't. In 2009 we stored all the non-perishable food for the Alson control in a tent prior to the event, it weighed about 600kg, but I own a vehicle which can carry that. That freed up space in the kitchen, and was one less job for Heather to think about.

[Brakeless]

Mini LEL. Loughton Epping Loughton ?

[Bus Shelter Bertie]

Mini LEL. Loughton Epping Loughton ?

Excellent idea, and then if you finished with something to spare, you'd have the confidence to take on the Maxi LEL

[Drone]

I remember Sheila Simpson and a few other notable audaxing names riding the 800 version when I did my first LEL. Having ridden two I understand why they did as all the most interesting scenery is in the northern part of the ride.

I can see what ESL is driving at but I think it's the sort of thing that would be ideal as a group DIY with the agreement of the LEL organisers that they use some official controls ahead of the main wave of riders. I might even be tempted as long as I don't have to ride any of the boring flat bits.

[Arry-R]

with the agreement of the LEL organisers that they use some official controls ahead of the main wave of riders. I might even be tempted as long as I don't have to ride any of the boring flat bits.
[/quot---------------------------


If the controllers are going to be free and idle then the organisation would merely allow increased numbers in the 100 hour group or indeed an extra group of 100 hour riders.  The 800 k option wasn't allowed for the London starters only those from Thorne but that's another issue

[Exit Stage Left]

The 5 am 'Racing' group dictates the opening time. The rest of the 100 hour groups still have double the time to arrive in theory. Just calling them a 100 hour group doesn't make them any faster.

The Thorne 800 was allowed as a ride for 1400 starters who didn't want to go South of Thorne in 2001, but that wasn't so in 2005. In both years it was a scheduled ride in itself. Londoners could do it by travelling 200 miles, staying in overnight accommodation, and booking some accommodation for after the ride. Few did that, as it's more convenient to start locally, and greener.

Northerners and Scots have to treat LEL much like PBP. The Bike Bus would be a good solution for travel, but that's occupied with Semaine Federale,

I had a think about the requirements for efficient coach booking. It would need to start in Scotland, pick up along the way, and then return to Scotland which is wasteful. If that coach took a load to York, and further along the route, it would better utilised. The driver would require accommodation, so a coach tour format, with hotel stays, would fit.

The passengers might be a mix of supporters, volunteers, control staff, or riders wanting a shorter course. The bike trailer would facilitate that, or carry drop bags. Bike trailers can be hired from Barlow Hire, close to where I live. The coach would return to Loughton to take customers home.

In terms of filming, I'd like to concentrate on the hill scenery among the riders. So I just need to ride my bicycle from the A64 to the top of the Granites and back. So I can do the ride I envisage without a card, as I've nothing to prove.

Heather has filmed at the Langdon Beck / Alston/ Brampton control for the last three times. The first riders get filmed, and others until the bulge appears. So I've got lots of time-coded footage of controls handling small numbers. She likes to spend a full day getting the control ready, so some volunteers are there 24 hours before they're stretched. I'm not sure what the cost per day of the school at Brampton is. A facilities company now provides all services, including catering, so that's something new to factor in.

[alfapete]

You've given this so much thought, ESL, you're the only one that can make it happen as an organiser.

My reservation is that if they are ahead of the fastest riders then all controls will have to be ready a corresponding number of hours earlier than currently envisaged which may not be popular, and if they're in the lull after the very fastest they'll still potentially be in the way of some very quick riders through the controls, possibly impairing their passage.

[Arry-R]

ahead[/u] of the fastest riders then all controls will have to be ready a corresponding number of hours earlier than currently envisaged which may not be popular, and if they're in the lull after the very fastest they'll still potentially be in the way of some very quick riders through the controls, possibly impairing their passage.

Very well put.  If more riders can be coped with then LEL 2017 would have/will accommodate them. Contollers will have enough to think about

[Exit Stage Left]

In 2017 the Brampton control was opened at 23.25 by Heather Swift, cutting a piece of hazard tape while holding a can of Boddingtons,

At 2.25 the first rider arrived, mistaken for Chris Dobbs, who'd left Barnard Castle first, but had forgotten his spectacles.

Ar 3.20 Chris Hobbs arrived, he'd doubled back to collect his spectacles, and another group had been through, pausing to collect items from their drop bags.

In the meantime, Ishmael Burdeau arrived at 2.58, wanting to sleep for two or three hours. We'd seen him ride over 480 miles a week earlier in the Mersey Roads 24, while we were marsalling overnight, so not a surprise he was tired.

The front runners in the LEL are much like the 24 Hour front runners, unassuming, but driven.

The films I make are edits of large amounts of material, which I archive, to remind me of what these events are like. Here's a very dull 10 minutes for you. i watch it, obviously, otherwise I wouldn't know what happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zimx86JBiKQ

Jo's 2013 visualisation shows that activity, and the arrival of significant numbers at about 11 am.
http://www.staff.city.ac.uk/~jwo/lel2013/?id=g28&all=true&co=true

So there was a 12 hour gap where a group setting off further North could fit in. The 5 am 'racing' start will be about the same as the 2013 5 am group. The all time record is 60 hours. An exceptional rider, at PBP record  pace, might take that to 50 to 55. But the time is unpublished.

[Exit Stage Left]

With a 5 am 'racing start, the 'cost per rider' in terms of open controls beyond Thirsk on the first night is high. The argument that very fast riders take little from controls, and lose value is balanced by that.

There's logic in the fast riders starting at 5pm, or maybe they could have trackers and not use controls until Brampton on the return.

[alfapete]

You've given this so much thought, ESL, you're the only one that can make it happen as an organiser.

But you still haven't answered the question about who the organiser will be