Help me buy a bike ...

[Afasoas]

Hi.

Thanks in advance for this. I've been out of the cycling world for a while and things have moved on a bit. I would like an audax style bike. Suitable for rides of at least 100km, which is realistically all I'm going to find time for... but also suitable for 200km rides and perhaps a bit of light credit card touring should the opportunity ever arise.

It seems the roads have decayed considerably since I was last putting miles in, so a reasonable amount of comfort is a priority.
I see proper mudguards as an essential. So I'm thinking something with clearance for at least 28mm tyres and mudguards?

In terms of geometry, I'm better on a stable rather than a twitchy bike but I would still like it to climb and accelerate reasonably well.

Gears. Sadly I'm not as fit as I used to be so a single speed probably isn't an option. At least not yet. it's a bit lumpy around here and I do like hilly rides. I'm thinking Shimano 105 gears - they seem to work well enough on the summer bike and I always felt that was about the best value-for-money Shimano offered. Anything over 7 speed is enough . And call me old school, but I'd really like a triple. Just seems to me, that you get the gear you want without faffing too much to think about the chainline. I appreciate, that's probably asking a bit too much. So a compact double will do.

Do I need disc brakes? Bannishing worn rims into distant memory seems like a good idea. I remember my first descent on an MTB with hydraulic disc brakes. Fluid leaking everywhere by the time I reached the bottom, despite modulation. I've seen cable actuate disc brakes are still around. Are these a worthwhile compromise? Keeping a spare gear and brake cable packed alongside spare inner tubes seems like good sense. Spares for hydraulic brakes maybe less practical?

Any concern about standards? Do I want a thru-axle or a conventional one?
And then the final question. Steel. Ti. or Carbon? I think I'm leaning towards Ti. Sabbath? Spa Cycles?
Is an all Carbon fork worth the extra? Or should I consider a Ti fork, if going down that path.

[mike]

Id be looking for a gravel bike or a chunky 'endurance bike' that'll take 32mm tyres, hydraulic discs, guards, 105... Loads of choices. Hydraulic discs are amazing and pretty much 'fix and forget'.  2 x 11 or 12, or even 1x12 if you dont mind big steps between gears.

I'd go carbon over Ti (although I haven't bought a ti bike in 10 years, the ride quality improvement we've had with fatter tyres on carbon has gone beyond the specialness of Ti), and I'd start with a https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/bicycles/road/terra/cat/terra-h30-2024 or a https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road-bikes/endurance-bikes/endurace/cf/endurace-cf-7/2735.html?dwvar_2735_pv_rahmenfarbe=BK%2FBK and see where it goes!!

[Andrew Br]

If this is your size Afasoas, get it, it's an absolute bargain:- https://www.scotbycycles.co.uk/products/gt-grade-carbon-expert-gravel-bike

I've got the 51cm model and I can't praise it enough. The standard tyres are sluggish on the road but tyres are one of the 1st things you change anyway...........
Mine hit the road on 13-05-23 then went back to the (not)LBS for further mods. I think they had it for about 2 weeks. It's now done 6000km and I have 3 other bikes.......
I've made one "comfort" change, a ShockStop suspension stem. Also highly recommended.
The only criticism I have of the bike is that GT don't recommend using the frame "holes" for carrying luggage (despite them having metal inserts); I have a TailFin rack and rack-pack and use the TailFin through axle mount.
I'd prefer to mount the rack to the frame and I thought that I could do that  .
GT's "on-line" advice is that rider and luggage should not exceed 120kg. Speaking to them to check: No !
That's my only issue.

FWIW, I also have an Enigma Ti bike (with a suspension stem). It rides very well but the Grade has that extra edge.........

[StuAff]

By heck that Grade's a bargain. One of Andrew & my fellow tourists this past summer had an Orbea Avant (sadly stolen shortly after), very nice bike and it certainly did the job for her. She's got a Trek Checkpoint SL5, which should be on the shortlist as well I think (don't think she's got it built yet).

As for me, I bought titanium, twice. 2015 I got my Litespeed T5 Gravel, which I absolutely loved and did thousands of miles on including multiple tours. Just finished one when it got nicked in 2022. A relentless ground-covering jack of all trades, master of most. Commuted on it a few times, 20 hilly miles at a 15 mph average! Its now-equivalent model the Flint is about £3.5k  for the frameset (direct import from the US, no UK importer any more) but I still have a hankering for one some time. They build 'em nicely in Tennessee.

What I actually bought: Kinesis Tripster ATR v3. Got my frameset for £1800, built up with 105 R7000 (11-speed)….running 50/34 & 11-32. Unfortunately, you won't get one for less than about £2200 at the moment, but if you buy one you're unlikely to be disappointed. As capable as its nicked brother. I haven't ridden any of the carbon rivals, but the ride is peachy (I run 35mm tyres, but I doubt it goes harsh with 28mm) and stiff enough not to waste whatever power you can output. Triple bottle cage mounts, full rack and guard mounts, clearance for up to 700x45 or 650x50 (I'd say up to 700x40 with guards). Ridden multiple centuries, up to 290 or so km, on mine, and could have gone further. On the titanium side, also consider Reilly Gradient, Sonder Camino Ti (an excellent relative-bargain choice), Ribble CGR Ti, Spa Elan…
Happy shopping!

[Afasoas]

I wish it was happy shopping! Main priority this year is saving a chunk to pay off the mortgage when the fix rate expires. I was hoping to get that over with before buying this bike, but it the cheap second hand audax bike is not working out. I'm dubious about the aluminium frame - although I can't find any cracks in it, it seems way to flexible.

There's a few interesting suggestions here.

I started out with these two possiblities:
* Budget option
* Spendy option

I think the Elan will take 40mm width tyres with mudguards.

Mike,
That Orbea you linked is an aluminium frame. Triple butted no less. I've heard a lot about QC issues with the Canyon framesets. Is that just noise?

Andrew,
The Grade ... I'm right on the upper limit of the 51 cm (out of stock) and 55 cm (in stock). I've never really rated GT as a brand - I always thought the triple triangle frames were a bit of a marketing gimmick. Maybe it's time I revised that opinion. That said, formula hubs? And I really don't like the price of replacement chainwheels for FSA chainsets.

StuAff,
The Kinesis frameset is about £2,400 right now. Looks nice though. I've had a look at the Ribble offerings.

I need to get my head around what I can actually justify spending. Or whether this is worth raiding the long-term piggy bank for.
Thanks for the input so far. I really appreciate it.

[StuAff]

Absolute best price on the ATR I can find on Google right now is £2024 (presumably it was a pound cheaper last year).

That's a very very good deal on the Elan Ti!

[Andrew Br]

To add a little more context to my purchase of the Grade.
I bought it through Bike to Work via my (not)LBS. I would have preferred the 49cm frame but, apparently, there were none available anywhere. At 170cm tall, I'm right at the bottom end of the 51cm frame size recommendations but I have long arms. I'd still rather have the smaller frame and a longer stem (my preference and contrary to where gravel bikes seem to be heading)
I chose the lowest spec carbon frame model (groupset on that was, I think, 10 speed Tiagra).
(not)LBS took off the groupset and fitted, at my request, Super Record shifters and Chorus derailleurs plus a Praxis chainset. They credited me for the Tiagra stuff.
I took the risk of staying with a Shimano 12 speed cassette expecting that the Campag shifter/derailleur would cope since there's not much room for it to not work. End result is that it's great except for a major "clunk" when changing mid-way through the cassette. I can live with that (and the much lower cost of Shimano v Campag cassettes plus I've been able to use the standard wheels).
So far, the supplied wheelset has been fine. Having said that, when the next BtoW scheme starts, I'll be getting some Paul Hewitt built "bling(ish)" wheels for it.

A slight diversion: my favourite bike before the Grade arrived was an On One Dirty Disco. I bought it as a stop-gap when my Enigma broke and they (Enigma) were deciding whether they could fix it or if it needed replacing. I knew it would be a while so I bought the Disco.
I came to love it so much so that it became my "go to" bike.
33,300 miles later, I was knocked off the Disco by a car that stopped with its rear wheel on the Disco's rear wheel having driven over the bike. I was stuck underneath it until someone pointed out to the driver what had happened. I was OK, the Disco was dead.......
My insurance company accepted the loss and told me to get a new bike (they wouldn't pay up with £££ unfortunately). They also said that they'd go after the driver to get their money back. I don't know how they've got on with this.
Anyway, at a visit to the (not)LBS I got into conversation with the manager and asked what deal they'd do me on a Cannondale Topstone Lefty 2, a bike that I was interested in before I got the Grade. They offered a significant discount and I said "yes" so I've got one of those as well. It's a lovely bike but I'm not sure where it fits in.
October time (I think) I was Googling the GT Grade for info about something and I came across a 49cm bike of a similar spec to the one I linked to above. It was also half price.
I could afford it but I couldn't justify it because of the Topstone. I also didn't have space for it indoors..........
Sadly, I really regret buying the Topstone when the half price Grade would have been so, so good.
In retrospect (hind sight; marvellous eh ?) I should have bought the Grade and sold the Topstone. I'd still have been ££££s in I reckon.
Don't get me wrong: the Topstone is marvellous but 1500km since 06-07-23 v 6000km on the Grade since 13-05-23 tells its own story.
The Grade is my "go to" bike.

As I said in my earlier post; if you fit that size bike, get it. It's an absolute bargain.
Change the tyres, fit a saddle that suits you and, eventually, when the chain set wears out (5 years time?) fit something else.

[Phil21]

Touche, I am also bike shopping! Feeling the need for an upgrade to my 14 year old bike. Seriously considering building my own because modern bikes have tubeless tyres, hydraulic brakes, internal cable routing and electronic shifting, all technologies which I am unfamiliar with.

I came across this review with lots of bikes at different price points: https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/best-endurance-road-bikes

I like the look of the Vitus but they won't sell me one in the nice red colour unless it's SRAM and I think I'd be happy with just 105 di2 which only comes in boring silver.

Also looking at the Ribble Endurance SL and SLR, but I've seen it commented that they are more road bikes than true Endurance bikes. But at least Ribble do some nice colors.

[Paul H]

There's a few interesting suggestions here.

I started out with these two possiblities:
* Budget option
* Spendy option

I can't help feeling that if those two bikes are on the same shortlist it isn't going to be very short. 
If the traditional type Audax bike, like your budget option, appeals then maybe look secondhand.  They've fallen so far out of fashion it's hard to give them away.  If you fancy the same sort of bike but with discs, Spa's take on that is the Aubisque rather than the Elan.  And if you're attracted to the do-it-all style of bike, there are plenty of more wallet friendly ways to experiment than the Elan.  I've seen Sonder, Boardman and Triban models that look worthy of consideration.
Of course, most bikes are going to be fine for a few 100's and occasional 200's, so you're not really going to go wrong. My observation from a few Audax in the last year is that two trends have developed,  There's far more road bikes than I remember from a few years ago, and an equal number of the do-it-all type bike.  The trad style is very much in decline and the tourer almost extinct, though there remains enough "others" to spice it up.  If the changing fashions demonstrate anything, it is IMO how little it matters.

[quixoticgeek]

Hi.

Thanks in advance for this. I've been out of the cycling world for a while and things have moved on a bit. I would like an audax style bike. Suitable for rides of at least 100km, which is realistically all I'm going to find time for... but also suitable for 200km rides and perhaps a bit of light credit card touring should the opportunity ever arise.

It seems the roads have decayed considerably since I was last putting miles in, so a reasonable amount of comfort is a priority.
I see proper mudguards as an essential. So I'm thinking something with clearance for at least 28mm tyres and mudguards?

May I put in the suggestion that you go for something that can take at least 32mm tyres. The extra comfort they provide for minimal negative, is, IMHO, well worth it. I really like my 32mm GP5Ks.

You can always run narrower tyres in a bike that has space for wider, but you can't always go bigger.

J

[mrcharly-YHT]

Get something with GRX or similar crankset. Much, much better having lower gears if you are getting back into riding. Particularly if you want to do some light touring.

32mm min width. Really makes a difference on crummy road surfaces.

While I like my CDF in 725 steel, there is no denying that it is a hefty lump.

Carbon will be so, so much lighter.

[Afasoas]

There's a few interesting suggestions here.

I started out with these two possiblities:
* Budget option
* Spendy option

I can't help feeling that if those two bikes are on the same shortlist it isn't going to be very short. 
If the traditional type Audax bike, like your budget option, appeals then maybe look secondhand.  They've fallen so far out of fashion it's hard to give them away.  If you fancy the same sort of bike but with discs, Spa's take on that is the Aubisque rather than the Elan.  And if you're attracted to the do-it-all style of bike, there are plenty of more wallet friendly ways to experiment than the Elan.  I've seen Sonder, Boardman and Triban models that look worthy of consideration.
Of course, most bikes are going to be fine for a few 100's and occasional 200's, so you're not really going to go wrong. My observation from a few Audax in the last year is that two trends have developed,  There's far more road bikes than I remember from a few years ago, and an equal number of the do-it-all type bike.  The trad style is very much in decline and the tourer almost extinct, though there remains enough "others" to spice it up.  If the changing fashions demonstrate anything, it is IMO how little it matters.

We haven't really got to short listing yet. Without a budget in mind, that was my starting place.
Second starting place. No, third starting place.

The first second hand bike I bought was a rim braked road race-inspired bike, which a couple hundred pounds and some fettling hours later has turned out great.
The second, second hand bike - the audax - after some, less pounds and many fettling hours hasn't turned out so good. The frame appears shot.

Spare time is always in short supply, and as much as I do enjoy bike fettling, it robs me of time to be out cycling.
I've tried doing things cheap and cheerfully. Think I'm resigned now to throwing real money at the problem. And I have enough miles under my belt now, despite working away and bad weather, to know I'm going to get value out of it.

I'm inclined to agree with your last point. That said, I've ridden a medley of different bikes and even got some decent miles in on some of them.
Steel, alu, ti and carbon. And out of all those, titanium because of it's challenges is probably where there has been least change. The Canondale MTB (an M500) was sensationally quick and despite being alu, was probably one of the best bikes I owned, excepting the ti and carbon ones.


My shortlist, currently looks something like:
* Planet X London Road Ti
* Ribble CGR Ti (can I get over the Union flag?)
* Sonder Carmino Ti
* Sonder Colibri Ti 105
* The aforementioned Spa Elan Ti
* Sabbath AR[12]

Still looking at Carbon contenders (GT Grade?). Am I just too damned clumsy to be trusted with a soot bike?

I think disk brakes, ~30mm tyres and either a Ti or Carbon frame with an abundance of mounting options for extra hardware in a package weighing < ~10Kg and just stiff enough to accelerate nicely when pushed - getting away from traffic lights or going for it up a short and sharp incline.

Thanks so much for all your contributions/thoughts.

[Blodwyn Pig]

What’s wrong with a Spa Elan 725

[Afasoas]

What’s wrong with a Spa Elan 725

Nothing, save for the weight penalty relative to titanium or carbon?
After much contemplation, I've decided on a flavour Ribble CGR. Mainly because they allow a '30 day test ride'.

I don't suppose anyone here is already a Ribble customer? It looks like they do a refer-a-friend style discount scheme.

[mike]

which flavour did you go for? They look excellent value!

[Afasoas]

I'm still not 100% sure.
I think the Ti Sport could definitely benefit from a wheel upgrade.
But, thanks to a 'money thing' I'd forgotten all about, I can if I'm careful pony up for the Ti Pro and not sacrifice any long term savings or reduce the target sum I'd had in mind to pay off the mortgage later in the year.

Can't believe I'm contemplating spending these sums on a bike, but here we are.

The only downside is the 3 year warranty period. But, having a butted frame and a full carbon fork, it looks like very good value.

[mike]

Nice.. I think I'd go Ti Sport and spend another x pounds on a lighter set of wheels to set up for 'road' days, and then keep some knobbly gravel tyres on the original wheels for 'muddy' days.  We've ended up there with our gravel bikes, and although swapping them is never 100% faff-free (because the discs never *quite* line up) it's saved a huge amount of time & swearing swapping tyres every time we want to go do something different.

Not sure I'm ready to go electric gears yet, I regularly ride in a group of 10 where I'm the last luddite standing and it's probably 50/50 for rides where there's an issue with someones electric gears on a ride.

[Afasoas]

I imagine main drawbacks of electric gear are remembering to charge the battery, cost of replacement parts and the tears if the bike gets damaged and the STis need replacing.
I am kind of hoping that they need less adjustment over time relative to cabled gears. Until rotors/pads need changing or bearings wear out, I'm hoping this will mean in general a bit less bike fettling. I've read internally routed cables can be a bit of a pain.

Additional versatility is provided by the addition of rear pannier mounts

Does this mean most racks will fit? .. N.B. no need to buy a disk specific pannier rack?

[mcshroom]

If this is your size Afasoas, get it, it's an absolute bargain:- https://www.scotbycycles.co.uk/products/gt-grade-carbon-expert-gravel-bike

I've got the 51cm model and I can't praise it enough. The standard tyres are sluggish on the road but tyres are one of the 1st things you change anyway...........
Mine hit the road on 13-05-23 then went back to the (not)LBS for further mods. I think they had it for about 2 weeks. It's now done 6000km and I have 3 other bikes.......
I've made one "comfort" change, a ShockStop suspension stem. Also highly recommended.
The only criticism I have of the bike is that GT don't recommend using the frame "holes" for carrying luggage (despite them having metal inserts); I have a TailFin rack and rack-pack and use the TailFin through axle mount.
I'd prefer to mount the rack to the frame and I thought that I could do that  .
GT's "on-line" advice is that rider and luggage should not exceed 120kg. Speaking to them to check: No !
That's my only issue.

FWIW, I also have an Enigma Ti bike (with a suspension stem). It rides very well but the Grade has that extra edge.........

Scotby Cycles are unfortunately closing down at the end of the month as the owner is retiring, so that deal won't be around for long. https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24035356.scotby-cycles-pedals-retirement-epic-closing-down-sale/

[Phil21]

What’s wrong with a Spa Elan 725

Nothing, save for the weight penalty relative to titanium or carbon?
After much contemplation, I've decided on a flavour Ribble CGR. Mainly because they allow a '30 day test ride'.

I don't suppose anyone here is already a Ribble customer? It looks like they do a refer-a-friend style discount scheme.

As of today, I am a Ribble customer Went to the Clitheroe showroom and placed an order for a CGR SL. I would advise if you are going to go with Ribble then do it quickly - the ETA for my build has gone out by 6 weeks in the space of 1 week! Lots of January sales demand I imagine.

[Afasoas]

Congrats.

There are stories of 6 month lead times when a new model CGR was released 

[Sergeant Pluck]

Does this mean most racks will fit? .. N.B. no need to buy a disk specific pannier rack?

With a chainstay mounted flat-mount caliper it will be all nicely tucked away so no need for a disc-specific rack, IMO. 

ETA: Oh - congrats in advance!

[Afasoas]

Thank you Sergeant Pluck.

Bike build has been delayed from Jan 24th to Feb 9th on account of a Shimano Di shift cable.
I think it's very good of Ribble to tell you exactly why.

[Afasoas]

Notification from Ribble Cycles that the bike had been dispatched, as per the original date.

In the meantime, we've acquired a dog (funny how these things happen) who I've been walking for three hours a day. That's really eaten into time for cycling, but that fast paced walks mean I've lost an inch from the waistline already.

[Afasoas]

Bike arrived within two hours of yesterday's post. Parcel Force man dropped it off early (in his lunch break!) on account that he was running out of other parcels to keep it supported with.
Unpacked and assembled this morning. It was very well packed too. Ribble even supply a mini toolkit for assembly, including a type of torque wrench, which is a bit better than you get with flat pack furniture.

The rear pannier rack I'd bought for the cheap broken audax bike doesn't fit sadly. If it's seat stay brackets were a smidge longer, then I could nudge angle the rack's legs back a bit so they'd clear the end of the chain stay, but without some sort of self-fabricated brackety thing it's not going to happen. So I'm on the hunt for a rear pannier rack that will fit ... and also some luggage. I was using a frame bag but it makes water bottle access a pain. A saddle bag deletes one of the ideal mouting spots for the SeeMee 100. Bit of research to be done.

Despite the hydraulics/electronics, it feels like the lightest bike I've owned. And I'm not really one for aesthetics, but the semi-deep carbon rims are almost a little bit sexy.