Author Topic: Lost another brake pad last night!  (Read 5583 times)

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Lost another brake pad last night!
« on: 28 July, 2017, 07:50:52 pm »
Second time this has happened, both times on the front, one of the disc pad's braking material has disappeared.  Since the last time it happened, I never run same make pads front and rear. can't remember the make of pads, they are not that old, but have worn quickly. They were not worn down completely, but the braking surface had just fallen off. Getting a bit worried about these new fangled jobbies, any one else had TWO failures. Luckily I had a set of used spares, but managed to break the prong of the springy fork thang, still worked tho, not good knowing some 1:4's on the ride. ::-)

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #1 on: 28 July, 2017, 08:19:30 pm »
Name & shame so we can avoid . . . ?

Shimano OE pads might be 'carp' but they don't jettison themselves like lemmings something with a death wish.
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #2 on: 28 July, 2017, 08:42:49 pm »
pretty sure both sets were Clarkes semi sintered (50-50)

Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #3 on: 28 July, 2017, 08:48:25 pm »
were they sintered or organic? Also how old were they?

Usually there is a marking on the back of the pad indicating the make. Since any mark might become illegible, it is probably worth making notes about what pads you are using; if you are having them fail, it probably isn't a good idea to buy the same ones again and if you can't remember what you have fitted I don't see how you can be sure to stick to your 'not the same front and rear' when time comes to change one set of pads....?

I've seen a few delaminations that were corrosion related and one or two that were not. The latter were on someone else's bike and the pad type was not evident.

[oops cross-post.... BTW one of the wholesalers was offloading clarkes pads at a low price recently.... I wonder if they knew something.... :o]

cheers

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #4 on: 28 July, 2017, 08:58:57 pm »
I know every trade has its shady operators but I fucking hope not!
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #5 on: 28 July, 2017, 09:00:33 pm »
So you've lost something on a bike ride and not found it on the road? !!!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #6 on: 29 July, 2017, 07:05:35 am »
For some reason I seem to buy all my pads from CRC. Sure the front set were a replacement set issued by them, following an e-mail. Can't remember the rear. Anyway last time I bought 4 sets of Nukeproof, as they were on a good deal, and had good reviews, haven't used any yet, and I shall fit a set to the front when I get a minute.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #7 on: 29 July, 2017, 09:02:16 am »
It's never happened to me, and that includes some serious overheating on long alpine descents with a loaded bike.  I usually use Clarks organic (ie cheapest I can find).  I'm trying a set of semi-sintered (not Clarks) at the moment but I find them seriously lacking in bite, will be swapping them out for organics soon.

I think the pads are keyed onto the back plate aren't they?  So they can't just slide off.  But I suppose the braking forces are very great and if a pad is loose, it'll go.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #8 on: 29 July, 2017, 09:30:42 am »
I've lost one - it was the oem pad and when I looked at the backing plate, there was corrosion beneath the pad. Steel backing plate and it had rusted.

Since then I've always used replacements from disco, the metallic sintered type. These have a copper backing plate. Apart from being corrosion-resistant, these will conduct heat better.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #9 on: 29 July, 2017, 09:46:50 am »
....These have a copper backing plate....

I seriously doubt that.  I reckon they'll be steel, with a coppery finish.

 Try a magnet on them and see.

cheers

Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #10 on: 29 July, 2017, 12:23:35 pm »
....These have a copper backing plate....

I seriously doubt that.  I reckon they'll be steel, with a coppery finish.

 Try a magnet on them and see.

cheers

From their website

Quote
Metallic Sintered

Also known as Compound T (Sintered)

Superior power in all conditions

    
Long wear pads, great for DH or XC
Consistent braking power in the wet
Almost unaffected by rain and snow
Copper back plate

There isn't much mechanical stress on the plate, the only reason to doubt it being copper is the relatively high price of copper.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #11 on: 29 July, 2017, 01:06:47 pm »
Since then I've always used replacements from disco, the metallic sintered type. These have a copper backing plate. Apart from being corrosion-resistant, these will conduct heat better.

Where to?  My brakes (Spyre) have insulating discs built into the pistons which minimise heat transfer from the pads to the rest of the brake.  Don't really know why, they're cable brakes, no fluid to boil, seems a misconceived design feature to me.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #12 on: 29 July, 2017, 02:19:03 pm »
Since then I've always used replacements from disco, the metallic sintered type. These have a copper backing plate. Apart from being corrosion-resistant, these will conduct heat better.

Where to?  My brakes (Spyre) have insulating discs built into the pistons which minimise heat transfer from the pads to the rest of the brake.  Don't really know why, they're cable brakes, no fluid to boil, seems a misconceived design feature to me.
that does seem a daft design feature.
My brakes are cable BB7s, the brake body is aluminium and bolted to steel forks. So plenty of scope for a heat sink there.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #13 on: 29 July, 2017, 04:44:15 pm »
From their website

Quote
Metallic Sintered

Also known as Compound T (Sintered)

Superior power in all conditions

    
Long wear pads, great for DH or XC
Consistent braking power in the wet
Almost unaffected by rain and snow
Copper back plate

There isn't much mechanical stress on the plate, the only reason to doubt it being copper is the relatively high price of copper.

you are making the rash (and IME entirely unsubstantiated) assumption that someone who is selling bicycle parts actually describes them accurately on the internet.... :-[

 There is in fact every reason to suppose that the backing plate is 'copper coloured' rather than 'actual copper' because most copper alloys are nowhere near strong enough for this application, and those that are not are rather expensive.

Try a magnet on them. If by some freak chance it doesn't stick, scratch the backing pad and see what colour the metal is beneath the surface.

cheers

Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #14 on: 31 July, 2017, 08:47:09 am »
The pad itself is magnetic, however discobrakes insist that the backing plate is copper.

Copper really isn't that weak and it is a substantial chunk of metal. I don't know what stresses you think this is subject to that copper cannot stand it.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #15 on: 31 July, 2017, 10:52:53 am »
The pad itself is magnetic, however discobrakes insist that the backing plate is copper.
well.... it is pretty clearly steel. 

Quote
Copper really isn't that weak and it is a substantial chunk of metal. I don't know what stresses you think this is subject to that copper cannot stand it.

please don't design any brakes I might buy.... ::-)

cheers

Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #16 on: 31 July, 2017, 11:51:11 am »
Quote
Copper really isn't that weak and it is a substantial chunk of metal. I don't know what stresses you think this is subject to that copper cannot stand it.

please don't design any brakes I might buy.... ::-)

cheers
It is the backing pad only. It is about 3mm thick. I'm still waiting for you to state what forces you are imagining that copper can't take. The copper is held in an aluminum body. Are you going to say that aluminium isn't strong enough, it has to be steel?

Seriously, what are you imagining happens here?
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #17 on: 31 July, 2017, 04:18:38 pm »
I'm not 'imagining' anything; there are forces of up to about half a tonne passed through the brake pad backings; since the friction material doesn't correspond with the piston area and furthermore since the pistons are very often not flat, there are substantial bending stresses in the brake pad backing. They need to be strong.

Bicycle disc brake pads don't usually have backings that are 'about 3mm thickness'; they are  usually about 1.6 or 1.7mm in thickness.

A 'copper backing' (rather than an (expensive) copper alloy backing) might have about 1/4 the strength of steel, if it is cold worked. If annealed during processing (difficult to avoid if the pads are sintered type) it can drop to less than 1/10th the strength. At that strength level you would easily be able to bend the pad backing using your fingers.

If the pad backings deform in service, the linings fall off. You don't want that, remember..... :o :o :o

Possibly the backings you have are 'coppered' i.e. coated in a thin layer copper, to provide a little corrosion resistance, and this has been lost in translation.

  A similar situation exists with wire brushes. Before now I have wasted a considerable amount of time trying to explain (to people who should have known better and who were trying to avoid any contact of steel with an sensitive  item) that 'brass wire brush' and 'brassed wire brush' are not the same thing at all; the latter is made of steel with a brass-coloured finish.

cheers

Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #18 on: 31 July, 2017, 05:15:51 pm »
I suggest you take it up with Discobrakes
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Biggsy

  • A bodge too far
  • Twit @iceblinker
    • My stuff on eBay
Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #19 on: 31 July, 2017, 07:45:44 pm »
Kool-Stop claim to use aluminium back plates, as well as copper plated and steel ones.

www.koolstop.com/english/disc_pads.html
●●●  My eBay items  ●●●  Twitter  ●●●

Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #20 on: 31 July, 2017, 09:04:05 pm »
I suggest you take it up with Discobrakes
not my problem; you appear to have been sold something that is not as described (unless you somehow think that a magnet will stick to copper...? :o :o :o). I don't plan to buy any of their pads anytime soon....

Quote from: Biggsy
Kool-Stop claim to use aluminium back plates, as well as copper plated and steel ones

which is all quite believable; it isn't very expensive to specify an age-hardened aluminium alloy that is about as strong as a half-decent steel.  There are problems though;

1) such pads with alu backings are very likely to suffer badly with salt water corrosion, so I wouldn't advise them as suitable for UK winter road use and
2) prolonged use at ~200C plus will cause most artificially aged alu alloys to change, eventually becoming more brittle and/or softer after several hours.

I don't know if it is realistic to expect to be able to use the brakes at that temperature for that long without wearing them out anyway though.... ;)

cheers


Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #21 on: 31 July, 2017, 10:46:06 pm »
I suggest you take it up with Discobrakes
not my problem; you appear to have been sold something that is not as described (unless you somehow think that a magnet will stick to copper...? :o :o :o). I don't plan to buy any of their pads anytime soon....
They make a statement which you dispute, I'm suggesting that you take up the dispute with them rather than arguing with a third party.

A lot of people use and rate their pads highly. I've used them on my front brake for a few years without problems.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #22 on: 31 July, 2017, 10:47:04 pm »
The pad itself is magnetic, however discobrakes insist that the backing plate is copper.
well.... it is pretty clearly steel. 

IRTA the braking compound being magnetic.  Which may make it hard to tell whether the backing plate is.

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #23 on: 01 August, 2017, 07:07:37 am »
Anyway... ::-), whatever the backing, or pad, is made of, they shouldn't part company should they. How about a poll of those that have come adrift, so we can see of there is a trend. So , that'll be 

Clarkes semi-metallic  (front)
Clarkes semi metallic  (front)

Pour moi.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Lost another brake pad last night!
« Reply #24 on: 01 August, 2017, 07:18:02 am »
The braking material is stuck to the backing, and I believe may contain copper bits.  Have had pad material unsticking on a motorbike.  Which is a little bit scary.  Carbon lorraine had a few batches that were questionable quality.

More automotive systems are using aluminium in the braking system to make the suspension lighter so improve road holding.

Is it the same side both times?