Author Topic: Which electric bike?  (Read 2542 times)

Which electric bike?
« on: 27 October, 2016, 07:24:39 pm »
The wife of a regular riding buddy would like to get out more but suffers ME and often is not capable of doing 40 miles or so.   She had never heard of electric assist until I mentioned it today.

The thoughts are around a bespoke electric bike but clearly a practical conversion of her existing bike might be on the cards.   She would like something to provide a lot of assistance over upto 50 miles.   Are we dreaming or is there stuff out there that you might have experience of which could release her from the shackles of being house and car bound?

Re: Which electric bike?
« Reply #1 on: 27 October, 2016, 07:48:56 pm »
A work colleague does about 25 miles a day on his bosch powered mountain Haibike. He spends most of his time doing 25mph though, so if you leave it restricted to 15mph and you don't use Turbo all the time, I reckon you could get 50 miles to a charge (depending on how much pedalling and how many hills). They are expensive though - I think his would have cost around 2.5k new.
I don't know what the conversion options are like - it would probably depend on the original bike as well as the kit...
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Duncan

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Re: Which electric bike?
« Reply #2 on: 27 October, 2016, 07:49:41 pm »
I'd say conversion is preferable if the rider finds their existing bike comfortable.  See this thread for some info: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=99589.0

It may be worth getting an especially large battery made.


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Re: Which electric bike?
« Reply #3 on: 27 October, 2016, 08:07:24 pm »
Mrs B has two Hainzmann systems, one we bought as a kit to install on her trike to other is one of their off the shelf bikes.

We've been very happy with both of them.

http://www.ebike.heinzmann.com/en/systems/directpower/motor

Re: Which electric bike?
« Reply #4 on: 27 October, 2016, 08:08:22 pm »
Instead of a large battery, on our ARCC converted tandem we intend to carry our charger, which is lighter than a spare battery and recharges in 30 minutes - just right for a tea or lunch stop.

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Re: Which electric bike?
« Reply #5 on: 27 October, 2016, 08:14:34 pm »
Our new tandem has the Shimano Steps battery/motor. I think that we could get a reasonably comfortable 40 miles out of ours in Essex - less in hillier terrain. However, Mrs. Wow and I have a combined mass in excess of 30 stones. I would imagine that a solo lady rider would weigh about 30% of that, so presumably the number of available miles would increase.

I am pretty certain that this system would not be available for an upgrade - the motor sits on the pilot's bottom bracket - and it isn't cheap.

I contemplated an electric conversion for our Thorn tandem. It would be available, but I think I would need to buy a 130mm wide front fork. We wouldn't want a rear wheel conversion because that would involve sacrificing our Rohloff hub and although BB conversions are available, I don't think it would be possible on a bike with an eccentric bottom bracket, which Thorn bikes have in order to accommodate chain tensioning with a Rohloff.

I asked Thorn about this and they recommended someone to do a conversion, but I can't remember who it was.

I think it may have been these people; http://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/Items/Conversion_Kits/Front_EKits/Front_Drive_EKits_List.aspx but they say that their front wheel motors require 100mm space. I suppose they may have changed their specification since I spoke to them, which was a few months ago, or it may have ben someone else.
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Re: Which electric bike?
« Reply #6 on: 27 October, 2016, 09:37:43 pm »
Instead of a large battery, on our ARCC converted tandem we intend to carry our charger, which is lighter than a spare battery and recharges in 30 minutes - just right for a tea or lunch stop.

That is quick!

Re: Which electric bike?
« Reply #7 on: 27 October, 2016, 09:43:00 pm »
It may be worth getting an especially large battery made.

...or carry one or more spare batteries. 

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Re: Which electric bike?
« Reply #8 on: 27 October, 2016, 09:51:25 pm »
Electric assistance is making exponential advances (no pun intended) in both battery life and recharging time. As Wowbagger pointed out re his electric car, being an early adopter can have both financial and efficiency penalties.

The  most efficient would be a modern mid-drive using Shimano, Yamaha or Bosch motors. The most cost effective would be a wheel driven conversion of the existing machine. PB I'll call you...
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Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

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Re: Which electric bike?
« Reply #9 on: 27 October, 2016, 10:41:21 pm »
Trek do a range of different bikes (Mountain, front suspension hybrid, flat barred etc) with both Bosch and Shimano steps. Ridgeback have a fleet including step through frames using the Shimano system. Saracen do a nice street style bike using Shimano I think it is and for a more upright ride, electra do a range of bikes as well. The BB mounted motor seems to be the favoured option amongst many manufacturers at the moment. Having ridden quite a few during demonstrations, the positioning of the motor seems sensible as, when propelling under leg power alone, the weight seems to be carried very easily.

Both the Bosch and Shimano systems will provide 50 miles plus on a full charge on the conservative power settings.

I know you are a tad north of my manor but, if you and your potential electric steed user ever find yourself in Marlow, the shop I work at has half a dozed demo ties (MTB, hybrid and a cruiser) waiting to be explored. Give me a shout if you want more info.

Re: Which electric bike?
« Reply #10 on: 28 October, 2016, 09:11:10 am »
We have been looking at electric bikes for my wife.  She has a road bike but is put off as she knows that she slows me down and we end up not going very far.  She tried an electric bike on holiday in Tuscany so fairly hilly and loved it.

we have looked at the Scott Contessa range and are due to look at a VOLT tomorrow which is currently her favourite based on reviews.  The new bikes look as if they will deliver 50 miles round the peak district and if we buy a second battery we could have long days out for both of us.

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Re: Which electric bike?
« Reply #11 on: 28 October, 2016, 09:22:42 am »
We haven't had cause to try charging mid-ride yet. Given that, even when we have been on a long tour, LEJOG being the longest, our daily average was about 50 miles, but the three shorter days in the middle meant that we were mostly riding between 55 and 60, I would regard that as an absolute maximum for us. If the battery does give us about 40 miles' worth of assistance, and it takes (allegedly) 4 hours or so for a full charge, a lunchtime top-up would get us the full day in.

We can, of course, ride without electrical assistance, which is fine if it's flat, and that's what we are used to with our Thorn tandem. However, given that the cut-out occurs between 15 and 16 mph, the machine gives the impression that, one you doing about 12mph, it is providing you with a lot less help than if you are stodging along at about 8 or 9 mph. I have far too little experience of it so far to see how this works out over a longer ride. Even then, I am certain that there will be day-to-day variation. Cold weather will lead to a less responsive battery than warm, and wet roads offer more resistance than dry - at least, to wide car tyres they do.
Quote from: Dez
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fuzzy

Re: Which electric bike?
« Reply #12 on: 28 October, 2016, 09:50:16 am »
Something to bear in mind about electric assist bikes- they are not the solution to all obstacles to someone cycling.

To my mind, what they excel at is extending the cycling career of riders who are either losing condition due to age or infirmity or recovering from a long term injury or illness. They are also damn good at starting the cycling career of those that found unassisted cycling too much of a chore or not realistic due to pre-existing conditions. 

Re: Which electric bike?
« Reply #13 on: 28 October, 2016, 12:47:53 pm »
Something to bear in mind about electric assist bikes- they are not the solution to all obstacles to someone cycling.

To my mind, what they excel at is extending the cycling career of riders who are either losing condition due to age or infirmity or recovering from a long term injury or illness. They are also damn good at starting the cycling career of those that found unassisted cycling too much of a chore or not realistic due to pre-existing conditions.

Agree with that, well put!

Re: Which electric bike?
« Reply #14 on: 28 October, 2016, 01:02:07 pm »
We haven't had cause to try charging mid-ride yet. Given that, even when we have been on a long tour, LEJOG being the longest, our daily average was about 50 miles, but the three shorter days in the middle meant that we were mostly riding between 55 and 60, I would regard that as an absolute maximum for us. If the battery does give us about 40 miles' worth of assistance, and it takes (allegedly) 4 hours or so for a full charge, a lunchtime top-up would get us the full day in.

We can, of course, ride without electrical assistance, which is fine if it's flat, and that's what we are used to with our Thorn tandem. However, given that the cut-out occurs between 15 and 16 mph, the machine gives the impression that, one you doing about 12mph, it is providing you with a lot less help than if you are stodging along at about 8 or 9 mph. I have far too little experience of it so far to see how this works out over a longer ride. Even then, I am certain that there will be day-to-day variation. Cold weather will lead to a less responsive battery than warm, and wet roads offer more resistance than dry - at least, to wide car tyres they do.

In the early days of electric bikes the unsophisticated, hub motor types used to give assistance up to their cut out speed in a way that discouraged you from pedaling.  You got no reward from pedaling harder.  The crank mounted system that Panasonic produced was far better as it used software to give the rider a multiplier for effort, it gave more assistance the harder you pedaled.  I think the Bosch system is similar, don't know about shimano. 

Although counter intuitive at first, the latter type was much more satisfying to ride