Author Topic: Going for a swim  (Read 3170 times)

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Going for a swim
« on: 23 July, 2021, 01:52:30 pm »
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/23/at-least-17-people-drown-in-a-week-of-tragedies-in-englands-waters

An awful lot of the excuses there sound very like the arguments in favour of wearing helmets. I'm surprised they don't recommend them as well.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #1 on: 23 July, 2021, 05:40:45 pm »
We've always had public safety information about drowning. Joe and Petunia – Coastguard.

The lakes near us are stowed out with "wild" swimmers. It is part of the staycation, 'nothing to do', 'my rights', stuff that is going on at the meant in the pandemic.
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #2 on: 23 July, 2021, 06:29:29 pm »
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/23/at-least-17-people-drown-in-a-week-of-tragedies-in-englands-waters

An awful lot of the excuses there sound very like the arguments in favour of wearing helmets. I'm surprised they don't recommend them as well.
Every heatwave brings these swimming deaths.

Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #3 on: 24 July, 2021, 08:55:23 am »
I would have liked that article to explain what the risks are - why do able bodied young men, who know how to swim, drown?

I’m interested in thei “right to roam” approach to swimming, not sure how it’s fair to say that if a water company own a reservoir they must open it to the swimming public.  Also a step change in attitude if we say that this will be done without a lifeguard - we would definitely need more swimming education at all ages if this were to happen.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Going for a swim
« Reply #4 on: 24 July, 2021, 11:43:52 am »
I would have liked that article to explain what the risks are - why do able bodied young men, who know how to swim, drown?

It’s often down to underestimating how cold the water is.  Also underestimating currents and tides. People simply don’t realise how different swimming in open water is to swimming in a pool.

Stupidity also plays a part. Going out to sea on an inflatable that’s designed only for pool use, for example.

Alcohol is often a factor too.

Back when I was 15, a school friend of mine died after diving off the harbour into shallow water and breaking his neck (it’s not clear to me if that sort of incident is counted in the figures quoted, or if it’s just drownings).

Also note that the figures include deaths in the bath, of which there were more than in reservoirs. Clearly people also underestimate the dangers of going in the bath. It’s one reason I only ever use the shower.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #5 on: 24 July, 2021, 11:47:06 am »
Southend has about 7 miles of sea front which, on a hot day, will probably be occupied by tens of thousands of people. I don't recall ever having seen a lifeguard.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #6 on: 24 July, 2021, 11:50:41 am »
Also note that the figures include deaths in the bath, of which there were more than in reservoirs. Clearly people also underestimate the dangers of going in the bath. It’s one reason I only ever use the shower.
;D
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #7 on: 24 July, 2021, 11:52:25 am »
Southend has about 7 miles of sea front which, on a hot day, will probably be occupied by tens of thousands of people. I don't recall ever having seen a lifeguard.

Whitstable has one small section (marked out by buoys) that is supervised by lifeguards, but they’re only there at weekends during the summer.

The big concern for me round here is the danger of other water users - especially jet skiers. Doesn’t matter how strong a swimmer you are - you won’t be able to get out of the way of a jet ski if the operator hasn’t seen you.

Brightly coloured swimming caps and tow floats are a very good idea.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #8 on: 24 July, 2021, 12:40:13 pm »
Brightly coloured swimming caps and tow floats are a very good idea.

Agreed. What can happen in a lot of cases is simply exhaustion. Not realising how far you've got from shore. Then not being able to get back. A tow float is primarily there to stop people running you over, but it can also double as something to hold on to when tired. Other issues can be cramp. Getting cramp in your leg while out of your depth and unable to float can rapidly go badly.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #9 on: 24 July, 2021, 02:09:36 pm »
Agreed. What can happen in a lot of cases is simply exhaustion. Not realising how far you've got from shore. Then not being able to get back.

A few years ago, when I was training for a triathlon, I went for a test swim in my wetsuit - since I'd never swum in one before.

I aimed for one of the marker buoys a little way out from the shore. Had a Father Dougal moment when I reached it and realised how bloody big it was (the old small/far away thing).

Having reached it, I turned round and headed back towards the shore - and that's when I realised why the outward swim had felt so easy...

Swimming against the tide was extremely hard work. But panicking is probably the worst possible thing you can do in that situation, so I just kept calm and ploughed on.

I was utterly knackered by the time I eventually got back to the beach, but I'd learned a valuable lesson. Fortunately not the hard way.

It didn't help that it was a blazing hot day in August. Not exactly wetsuit weather.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #10 on: 24 July, 2021, 02:33:05 pm »
not sure how it’s fair to say that if a water company own a reservoir they must open it to the swimming public

The question of fairness is an interesting one in the context of private "ownership" of things like reservoirs.

Bewl Water was built in 1973 at a cost of £11 million. It was paid for by the public. When the water companies, that we owned, were sold back to us in 1989, did the new owners pay anything remotely close to the true market value of the assets they acquired? (The answer is no, they didn't.)
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #11 on: 24 July, 2021, 04:59:39 pm »
The water boards were never privatised in Scotland. I wonder how much difference that made in the context for the right to "responsible access" to inland waters confirmed by the 2003 Land Reform Act.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #12 on: 24 July, 2021, 05:10:22 pm »
All the difference, I would think.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #13 on: 24 July, 2021, 05:26:09 pm »
not sure how it’s fair to say that if a water company own a reservoir they must open it to the swimming public

The question of fairness is an interesting one in the context of private "ownership" of things like reservoirs.


Yes, I see the argument that they should never have been privatised and that they were basically given away (to friends of the Con party).  But the current owners may no longer be the old owners and even if they are, it's a big precedent to say "we made a mistake and should never have sold this/should have charged you much more, hence now we will unilaterally require you to provide services and access".

Sure, "fuck them" is an option and one that I would instinctively back - but I'm not sure of the ramifications.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #14 on: 24 July, 2021, 06:16:43 pm »
Public rights of way can exist on privately owned land. I don't see why the same principle can't apply to water as well. The government has the power to legislate for this if it has the inclination.

The fight against enclosure started several centuries ago but is ongoing.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #15 on: 24 July, 2021, 06:34:38 pm »
A few years ago, when I was training for a triathlon, I went for a test swim in my wetsuit - since I'd never swum in one before.

I aimed for one of the marker buoys a little way out from the shore. Had a Father Dougal moment when I reached it and realised how bloody big it was (the old small/far away thing).

Having reached it, I turned round and headed back towards the shore - and that's when I realised why the outward swim had felt so easy...

Swimming against the tide was extremely hard work. But panicking is probably the worst possible thing you can do in that situation, so I just kept calm and ploughed on.

I was utterly knackered by the time I eventually got back to the beach, but I'd learned a valuable lesson. Fortunately not the hard way.

It didn't help that it was a blazing hot day in August. Not exactly wetsuit weather.

I did something similar in the sea at Whitstable a few years back. Swam out. Then turned round. Tide wasn't coming straight out, it was at an angle. And I reasoned the best thing was swim across it. I'd hit shore eventually. And i did. Eventually. Then walked back to my friends and the BBQ. "Why the fuck did you go all the way over there?" Asks my friends.

"So, about that tide" i reply.

Was a bit if a wake up call...

Fortunately where I swim here is mostly in a lake. I'm gonna need to do about 1.5k in the Gooimeer in the coming weeks to reach a tile. I'm not entirely sure what to expect. Will be grateful of by float tho.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #16 on: 24 July, 2021, 07:18:21 pm »
^^ Don't public rights of way involve some backhanders to the property owners (tax breaks possibly?).  Also, there's a difference between allowing people to walk across your field and swim in your reservoir what has moving parts and ting.

Obviously, I'm all for it - though I would have to go part time to cope with the amount of time my daughter would spend in the water.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #17 on: 24 July, 2021, 09:17:32 pm »
The most open totally man-made water I can think of is Carsington Water in Derbyshire. I think I read somewhere that it was the most popular tourist attraction in the whole of Derbyshire, which, given the Peak Districty nature of that county, is quite something. I compare it to the large reservoirs in Essex which are hardly used by the public at all by comparison. Abberton has some scant coarse fishing and an Essex Wildlife Trust cafe, Hanningfield likewise, but a bit more so.

I don't think there's a great deal of difference between the Essex and Derbys. reservoirs other than possibly, the steepness (in places) of the concrete bank. I do recall that the dam at Abberton was taken off-limits for anglers after some nefarious activities in the 1970s (I think) which was at the time attributed to the IRA. But I would have thought that that particular threat had receded somewhat. That dam was also the site of the biggest haul of pike in one weekend that I am aware of - a small group of blokes caught 721lb of pike over the weekend, and the fish averaged 19lb apiece (if you can get hold of it, there was a detailed report in Angling Magazine in October 1970).
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #18 on: 24 July, 2021, 09:33:00 pm »
I did something similar in the sea at Whitstable a few years back. Swam out. Then turned round. Tide wasn't coming straight out, it was at an angle. And I reasoned the best thing was swim across it. I'd hit shore eventually. And i did. Eventually. Then walked back to my friends and the BBQ. "Why the fuck did you go all the way over there?" Asks my friends.

The cross-shore current can be evil. You sometimes see people coming out of the water and looking around, puzzled. They think they’ve come out at the same point they went in but don’t realise they’ve been swept a couple of hundred metres along the shore.

It’s one of the reasons I swim in the buoy-marked area - gives you an easy point of reference while you’re in the water.

I often do “lengths” between the buoys. Sometimes it can take around a minute going in one direction but 10 minutes going in the opposite direction.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Going for a swim
« Reply #19 on: 24 July, 2021, 09:37:16 pm »
The fight against enclosure started several centuries ago but is ongoing.
I read a book about this recently. It's out of date, having been written in the 1980s, but is interesting on the historical aspects.
http://www.marionshoard.co.uk/Books/This-Land-Is-Our-Land.php
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.