Imagine your perfect custom racks & bags for camping tours

[Nick H.]

Money no object...someone makes custom bags and racks for your bike. For touring, with camping gear. What would your configuration look like?

I would want mine as light and aero as possible. For a road bike. About 60 litres total. I wouldn't use more than 40 litres most of the time, but I like having plenty of spare space for food shopping or what have you. Apart from a few necessaries near the cockpit, everything would be tucked in behind my torso and hips in one big aero blob. The rack would be thin carbon struts arranged in triangles, anchored to the rear dropouts, seat stays and seatpost. Rubber mounted, so it doesn't shake to bits. (Is this a good idea?)

There would be several separate bags, but when stacked together they would look like half an egg. The weight would be relatively high and rearwards, so I'd think about having a frame bag filling the frame triangle, carrying the heavier items. Perhaps that would be essential?  Dunno. I would try very hard not to have heavy items, full stop.

Has anybody else ever thought about this, or is it just me?

[Kim]

I've got a Panzerfiets which is designed to carry Ortliebs.  HPVelotechnick do make custom aero bags that neatly fill the space between the rear rack and the back of the seat, which give you a bit more volume than the standard back-rollers, but I've never seen the need and prefer the bags to be usable on my other bikes.

If I wanted to improve on the typical Ortlieb, I'd combine the internal pocket of the Roller Classic with the simpler closure of the City^[1], and possibly use the lighter weight (if less durable) Plus material.  Then I'd improve the lower hook attachment so it stays put while bouncing around off-road.  Otherwise, it's a simple, proven approach.  Boxy is good when it comes to filling it with stuff.

At the aero end of the spectrum I've got an 80 litre GRP tailbox on the Red Baron.  This has the same sort of capacity as a full set of touring luggage^[2] and actually makes the bike go faster (carbon would save a few kilos and be faster still).  Other than the ability to lock it closed, I remain unconvinced by the merits of an easily scratched rigid structure for day-to-day use, and while I don't mind cycles making reasonable mechanical noise, the sounding board effect grows tiresome.  I think if you're going down that road for touring, you might as well go the whole hog and use a Quattrovelo or something.  That said, it is strangely liberating to be completely unconcerned about the *volume* of what you're carrying.  You can just throw jackets and things in there loose.


_{[1] What's the point in using the shoulder strap to close all four panniers?  You've only got two shoulders, and probably can't carry the combined weight more than about 50m without the aid of a bike.  And if you carry the strap outside the bag, it gets covered in muck.  I carry one shoulder strap internally for when I want to keep the front pannier with the valuables with me, and close them in the drybag style, which is a faff.
[2] Unfortunately the bike is not designed to carry the weight of a full set of touring luggage, and handling becomes a bit iffy if you load it heavily.}

[Nick H.]

Mine wouldn't be rigid. Just fabric bags. I imagine the noise and look of a big rigid capsule would not be to my taste.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I'm vaguely surprised to find I haven't thought about this before. My answer is simple: I'd change my mind twice a year and have a long succession of iterations on a couple of basic themes.

[Lightning Phil]

It’d like the rack struts to somehow come apart so that they can be reconfigured as tent poles.  The rack light to act as a low level night vision light for the tent  A pocket on the panniers to be detachable. So valuables can be stowed in it and easily taken with me when popping in a shop.

Separately maybe a bit on the rack where I can click in a pole that extends vertically.  Then I can attach a tarp several feet of the ground. To give a high canopy.

[Polar Bear]

Having completed a number of laden cycle tours with Ortlieb Classics or Plus panniers front and rear, an Ortlieb barbag, my tent strapped either along or across the tops of the rear panners depend8ng upin it's size and all (except for the barbag) held in place on Tubus racks, I'd say that this is pretty much perfect for me. 

I could see the benefit of an extra top tube bag to allow for even easier access to stuff when on the move such as passport and boarding cards, cash, plastic, phone and snacks.   The downside being that I'd eat even more.  🤔

[quixoticgeek]

It depends. What is perfect for one trip is not perfect for others.

I've had to make quite a few changes from my normal setup for Ruska, because i'm expecting it to be so much colder than I am setup for with the base config. I'm expecting 0-15°C, which means I'm taking a down sleeping bag rated to 0°C, and my big fluffy Paramo jacket, just in case. I've also got 4 pairs of gloves, and unusually for me on an event like this, a stove and mug.

I do really love my tailfin setup. Esp with the mounts on the legs so I can add a little extra if I need to. But for true sub zero riding, I know I'll struggle to fit my big winter sleeping bag. While it fits in a 13l dry bag, and only weighs about 1.5kg, That's quite big to stick out one side from a cargo cage. It's also too big to fit under my aero bars, and on the fork. It amazes me that people on the SRMR can carry kit for camping in sub zero on their bikes without resorting to a pannier setup. I fear that for really cold rides, panniers are the only option.

I do find this setup appealing: https://thelazyrando.wordpress.com/2013/02/15/ss-coupled-fatbike-with-snowshoe-racks/

I love the multi use nature of it.

As discussed elsewhere, I'm not a fan of panniers, they encourage me to carry too much stuff, things I don't really need. Esp when i know I can get my overnight summer kit in a 15l backpack. if I rode round with the full 5 bag bike touring setup, I dread to think what I would fill them all with. But, having said that, I do love the look of a classic cycle tourer. A koga frame discoloured by the dust of what ever road you're riding on, with big chunky Marathon XR tyres, and the full 5 bag Ortlieb setup. But while the look appeals. These days I look at it and just whince at the weight and how unwieldy it is. I have a pair of Ortlieb backroller classic bags, they sit on the shelf above my bikes. But I never use them cos of all the reasons above. Maybe when I've completed the races I want to enter, I should buy the matching front set, a low rider rack, and head up the Rhine to see what touring without a sense of urgency feels like.

J

[Cudzoziemiec]

IMO if you're doing it with a sense of urgency, it's not touring. There will always be moments or days of urgency, when you've got to make the last ferry or whatever, but what you're: Ruska, TCR and so on – seems to sit somewhere in an overlap between touring and racing.

[quixoticgeek]

I was making a reference to Sarah and Jesse's book...

https://payhip.com/b/EmFN

J

[Nick H.]

It’d like the rack struts to somehow come apart so that they can be reconfigured as tent poles. 

I've been thinking about this too. My tent has two long carbon poles, which dismantle into sections. I could copy the tent design but with Dyneema and thinner poles, and the pole sections could combine to make a rack.

[mrcharly-YHT]

It’d like the rack struts to somehow come apart so that they can be reconfigured as tent poles. 

I've been thinking about this too. My tent has two long carbon poles, which dismantle into sections. I could copy the tent design but with Dyneema and thinner poles, and the pole sections could combine to make a rack.

I'd prefer an airbeam tent, tbh.

But even without that, I really wouldn't want to risk breaking either. Using tent poles as part of a rack seems to risk either  a broken rack or broken tent.

How about a rack with space in the rack to store poles?  Should be possible to add a bit of lightweight plumbing pipe with a cap - you could store spare spokes in it as well. Some foam spares to stop rattling.

[Nick H.]

IMO...it's not touring.

 

[Kim]

They're not something I've really used for touring (I think I used them for a York Rally at one point) but banana bags neatly solve the tent pole problem^[1], and in some configurations can give you easy access to Stuff while seated.  You can get really enormous ones.  The problem is that unlike panniers they're completely hopeless for carrying once removed the bike.  The best you can do is sort of sling them over your shoulder by one of the straps.

If you're camping every night this sort of thing isn't much of a problem, but luggage that isn't designed to be carried rapidly becomes un-fun when dealing with hostels/hotels with a long walk to the bike parking.


_{[1] My tent poles fit in a Back-Roller without any drama, so it's not something I give a lot of thought to.}

[Paul H]

I don't have any need for custom, there's so much choice I have to resist adding to my already excessive collection.  Lightweight racks, three sizes of panniers, a choice of two Carradice saddlebags and three sizes of bar bag.  There's enough variety there to tailor it to any trip I'm likely to make. I do like the growing choice of smaller panniers, I hacked a set of Ortlieb Front Rollers down about twenty years ago but they're coming to the end of their useful life.
Whatever you choose or design, it should be subjected to a faff test. Does my head in watching and waiting for someone packing and repacking bags.  I don't need to open the panniers on the ride, valuables are in the bar bag, anything else I might need is in or on the saddlebag, with some space for shopping. 

[Kim]

My general approach to packing is to put most things in drybags or stuff sacks, and then chuck those into the panniers.  Greatly reduces the faff level.

[morbihan]

I don't have any need for custom, there's so much choice I have to resist adding to my already excessive collection.  Lightweight racks, three sizes of panniers, a choice of two Carradice saddlebags and three sizes of bar bag.  There's enough variety there to tailor it to any trip I'm likely to make. I do like the growing choice of smaller panniers, I hacked a set of Ortlieb Front Rollers down about twenty years ago but they're coming to the end of their useful life.
Whatever you choose or design, it should be subjected to a faff test. Does my head in watching and waiting for someone packing and repacking bags.  I don't need to open the panniers on the ride, valuables are in the bar bag, anything else I might need is in or on the saddlebag, with some space for shopping.

Pretty much on board with this here. Touring specific though where weight and aero were down the list of priorities. For endurance racing etc, some fairly large concessions to be made.
One caveat though, I have a cheap but very practical top rack bag with foldaway panniers. It would be nice to have a custom one made with the same dimensions but waterproof and upgraded velcro fittings.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I want a rack to be practically infinitely rigid torsionally and laterally. A  little vertical compliance might be good but I don’t think passive vertical compliance can be created without adversely affecting other flexure modes. It would be nice if the rack can be easily dismantled or removed to allow the bike frame to fit into a small bag for transport e.g. TGV bike bag.

Panniers need to have a rigid backplate (to stop the bag and spokes clashing), be expandable/ compressible (to stop sway) and to be resistant to abrasion/ mud. I ride out of the saddle at times and swaying luggage ‘wags the dog’ too much

Handlebar bags (if used) need to not clash with cables or my knuckles, not bounce over bumps and have a lid that hinges away from the rider, so I can easily put stuff in/ out of the bag while riding. There needs to be better integration between aerobars, gps, handlebar bag and dynamo head light. Randomly strapping on drybags is bollocks. I am open to using a rigid (carbon?) fairing with luggage capacity but the design needs to consider crosswind gust stability.

No frame bag on a big-wheel bike. My knees brush the top tube already and I like having a full-size pump and two big bidons instead.

[Polar Bear]

I was mulling over the multi-use components such as poles being part of a rack and the tent.  This raises two queries:

1:  what if you have set up camp but then need to go on an errand requiring part of the tent?  I was thinking about those tents which use a wheel at one end specifically but I wouldn't want to partly dismantle my tent to rebuild my rack to go and fetch some supplies.

2:  what if the shared component breaks?  No tent and no rack.  Seems like the worst of both worlds.

It's a good concept but will need much thought and design to make it practical.

[Frank9755]

My general approach to packing is to put most things in drybags or stuff sacks, and then chuck those into the panniers.  Greatly reduces the faff level.

This is the key to packing - to group related items into batches. That avoids having to handle dozens of indiidual itmes ever time you need one.
It took me a few years to learn this!

[Nick H.]

This thread is going much better than I hoped, thanks everyone. I do actually want to make my ideal custom luggage setup. It's a question of finding the time, energy and money. Lots of ideas in the thread!

[Lightning Phil]

A saw a rear rack at the pub this past few days.

The owner had made a flask holder for the rack.  It was a bit of wood that slotted onto the top of the rack. Then in the wood was a cut out slot perfect shape for an unbreakable metal flask. Then the wood had a couple of straps that went over and under the flask to keep it in place. With quick release buckles.

Thought it was a great custom addition for when you don’t have tent , bag, mat, rack bag on top.

[salar55]

Frame builders sometimes make custom racks,   an old frame with a custom rack that i should build up again. It has guards for the canti brakes, 2 light fixings and longer than most racks.

[perpetual dan]

I quite like the setup I have:
 - barbag for camera, wallet, phone, other bits I’d keep on me whenever I leave the bike. I have a smaller Arkel and a huge one.
 - fame bag. I’ve used this to carry a water bladder and tools, first aid. Things I want easy fast access to that are also somewhat heavy.
 - small ortleib panniers, which keep things light but enough for a week without cooking gear but with a change of clothes for the evening, book to read etc. I try to keep these to stuff for the evenings.
 - a seat bag (about 10l, bikepacker style but without a load of stuff strapped on. Jacket, food, other stuff for while paused rather than stopped.

What would I change:
The bar bag could be more waterproof, and is never quite the right shape for camera, lenses, filters etc. In an even more ideal world it’d have a proper headlight mount on it.
The rack could probably be a lighter model, but isn’t particularly lumpen.
The panniers could be retro reflective white at the front and red at the back, and coloured to match my outfit on the sides.
I’d like a way to carry a proper tripod and/or pole for bivvy holding up. Not always, but for a leisurely tour.
If I was camping then tent on the rack and some fork mounted small luggage for cooking stuff and more food.

 

[D.A.L.E.]

It's a shame I can't @ him, but I think Karlas round the world setup is pretty ideal for a longer, non-racing trip. Except for the feed bag; I hate feed bags.



Obviously, money no object, I'd have a super light / super tough rack and custom bags. The only thing I might change would be smaller panniers, something like the Porcelain Rocket microwave panniers or something.

But having toured with pretty much every kind of setup possible, that's what I would go for.

[nobby]

IMO if you're doing it with a sense of urgency, it's not touring.