The window seat of pain

[Charlotte]

Which is why I think that despite lots of suggestions for satisfying things to do with portable rotary tools, I think Feline wins the internets today 

You could ask the parents if their child has glue ear / ear pain, or a diagnosed behavioural disorder, and if not then set the BEAR on them.

[geraldc]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2197969/Parents-young-children-hand-candy-sweet-message-flight.html

[Charlotte]

Aw, that's sweet (ba-doom, tish).

Tell me you're not a Wail reader though...?

[mattc]

Planes are a tricky problem, but I can't see why parents choose "Quiet" Carriages for their trip with a young family.

Do they think it's the bit free from drunken stag parties? 

[spesh]

Which is why I think that despite lots of suggestions for satisfying things to do with portable rotary tools, I think Feline wins the internets today 

You could ask the parents if their child has glue ear / ear pain, or a diagnosed behavioural disorder, and if not then set the BEAR on them.

Mind you, how many seats would ursus irritabilis need? 

[hellymedic]

I can't say I noticed kids on the last flights I took.
I suppose it was term time so there may not have been many.
I've had much more noise and hassle from kids on trains.
My extended family fly a lot. I think the kids are used to flight and the parents strict but calm. I reckon they'd be no bother.
Some families are noisy, some aren't.
Trufax.

[geraldc]

Aw, that's sweet (ba-doom, tish).

Tell me you're not a Wail reader though...?

I have a desk based office job, all online media is voraciously consumed! I've never bought a copy of the mail, but will happily read the stories online.

[barakta]

Planes are a tricky problem, but I can't see why parents choose "Quiet" Carriages for their trip with a young family.

Do they think it's the bit free from drunken stag parties? 

I have friends who booked seats with children tickets included and were allocated quiet carriage despite not having asked for it.  They were as unhappy as anyone else was as they didn't want the stress of keeping children 8, 6 and 2 really quiet.  If the train wasn't packed I'd sit elsewhere but I believe sometimes jobsworth ticket collectors get funny about that and if you need a table/seats all together you may end up taking least worst option.

[Feline]

I can't say I noticed kids on the last flights I took.
I suppose it was term time so there may not have been many.
I've had much more noise and hassle from kids on trains.
My extended family fly a lot. I think the kids are used to flight and the parents strict but calm. I reckon they'd be no bother.
Some families are noisy, some aren't.
Trufax.

This is very true. My son actually slept for 15 hours on a flight back from Aus when he was 6. I had to prod him on the descent to Heathrow and he asked if there was a meal coming. He had missed 3  That said the poor child was so good at falling asleep in moving vehicles that when he started middle school at aged 9 he fell asleep on the school bus in the 2 mile journey home and woke up in a village 6 miles away from where he had to walk home!

[ian]

I don't think anyone is saying that you shouldn't take children on planes. Provided they're adequately packaged and checked in with your hold baggage, it's perfectly fine. In fact, lessen the burden and have them Fedexed to your destination. That way they'll arrive sometime after you. In fact, possibly some time after your return. Oh, they'll turn up at some point. And if they don't, well, kittens are better than children in every way, and they don't even like going on holiday.

[Mrs Pingu]

On our flight to NZ there was an extended family in the row in front, having a child (not a baby or a toddler but a child) in the outer block of seats that screamed the whole way to HK at the top of it's voice.
Upon reboarding the plane they swapped seats and we had said child directly in front of us from HK to NZ, where service was resumed. In it's defence I suspect said child was not quite right but it made for a bloody long flight.

Airlines could save themselves a lot of bother by just putting some sleepy gas through the cabin...

[Feanor]

Some years back, we went to Canada on a ski trip, with another family.
Both families were similar: 2 adults and 2 kids.
Our kids were probably about 4 and 6, theirs perhaps 3 and 5.

On the flight back from Calgary, they were in the row behind us.
Their little one was giving it big wailing.
*Eventually* she settled down to sleep, to everyone's relief.

At which point, *our* little one threw his teddy up in the air.
In slow-motion, like the beginning of the film 2001.
It flew in slow motion with unerring accuracy, directly towards the sleeping wail-monster.
Everyone was in a slow motion  'Nooooooooo.....' and reaching out to catch it.
In vain.   It found it's mark.

Cue wailing for the remainder of the flight...

[Cudzoziemiec]

Kids are like bikes, just as many people who don't cycle have vociferous opinions as to what cyclists should wear, where they should ride, how fast, etc etc, so many who may or may not have children love to tell parents how to bring up their kids, either in general or in specific circumstances.

Which is why I think that despite lots of suggestions for satisfying things to do with portable rotary tools, I think Feline wins the internets today 

You could ask the parents if their child has glue ear / ear pain, or a diagnosed behavioural disorder, and if not then set the BEAR on them.

But what about undiagnosed disorders?

[Kim]

But what about undiagnosed disorders?

Well, you just diagnosed them, didn't you?

(I still feel bad about referring to our former neighbour's screaming 10 year old as "ADHD kid".  Eventually it came up in conversation that he actually had ADHD...)

[Chris S]

I still have flashbacks to the Air New Zealand Vomit Comet I rode on from LAX to Sydney many moons ago. It was close to Christmas, so there were a lot of families travelling.

Not long after reaching cruise, there commenced fully two hours of Seatbelts-ON, Nobody move, armrest gripping turbulence (including lightning outside the windows) which left the whole cabin thick with the smell of puke  .

Never again... (shudders).

[essexian]

Sitting in First Class on Virgin train out of Carlisle (18.45) at this very moment… I can see 8 people including two people who are playing snap….loudly.

I might just have to kill: again.

[geraldc]

BTW if you are a frequent flyer, it's worth writing to the airline to complain, as they'll chuck you free airmiles/frequent flyer miles to stfu. Works for my brother and his numerous emails of complaint.

[arabella]

Once upon a tie, many moons ago, mine was the wailing child.  What he actually wanted was a cuddle so he could go to sleep.  As he was over 2 he had to be belted into his own seat (I'd been told off for trying otherwise) until the seatbelt light went off whereat I stuck him on my lap and silence 2 seconds later.

What narks me is kids people playing on gadgets without the sound turned off.  You don't NEED silly background music to play supermario or whatever.  I have been known to get out the steely gaze and request as much.  And the silly plinka plonka plink of crap headphones.  And the way the "quiet" carriage gets ignored, I seem to be the only one to ask people to turn off their gadgets.  cont'd p67

[Cudzoziemiec]

But what about undiagnosed disorders?

Well, you just diagnosed them, didn't you?

(I still feel bad about referring to our former neighbour's screaming 10 year old as "ADHD kid".  Eventually it came up in conversation that he actually had ADHD...)

No, I didn't. There was not a single ADHD kid at my primary or secondary school, nor at those of my cousins, etc etc. The diagnosis simply didn't exist and children who now would be labelled ADHD were simply handfuls, rowdy, badly behaved, disruptive or whatever. Dyspraxic kids were clumsy and disorganised, and so on. Twenty years from now we'll likely have more diagnoses to explain other aspects of bad behaviour. Probably for adults too!

[Wowbagger]

It's quite simple. If you don't want to have other people's kids inflicted on you during a flight, don't get on a plane.

That way, you won't be guilty of your part in the emissions of noxious fumes that are killing lots of other people's kids.

Works for me. 

[mrcharly-YHT]

But what about undiagnosed disorders?

Well, you just diagnosed them, didn't you?

(I still feel bad about referring to our former neighbour's screaming 10 year old as "ADHD kid".  Eventually it came up in conversation that he actually had ADHD...)

No, I didn't. There was not a single ADHD kid at my primary or secondary school, nor at those of my cousins, etc etc. The diagnosis simply didn't exist and children who now would be labelled ADHD were simply handfuls, rowdy, badly behaved, disruptive or whatever. Dyspraxic kids were clumsy and disorganised, and so on. Twenty years from now we'll likely have more diagnoses to explain other aspects of bad behaviour. Probably for adults too!

It's a bit of thread drift, but I used to feel doubtful about the existence of ADHD. Until one day, when volunteering at the local gym, I was asked to keep a special eye on one kid "He has ADD" I'm told. "Yeah right" I think.

I learned something. Lovely  boy - but he had ADD. Main thing was to keep one hand on his shoulder (to remind him I was there) and keep reminding him what he was supposed to do. Like I said, lovely boy - attentive, listened to instructors and tried hard. He just was completely incapable of retaining focus without a reminder.

[urban_biker]

Yes, yes, children are a menace and should be drugged, and their parents are irresponsible and should be sterilised.

Well, I used to look at that child having a complete meltdown in Tescos and tut at how crap the parents were at dealing with it.

Until the day I was that parent, and it was my child who was unable to cope.

So what are we saying?  That my son should never be allowed to go on a foreign holiday?  Well, gee, thanks, but poverty has ensured that in recent years anyway.

Oh - and, fwiw, I've had a vasectomy, so shall not be inflicting any more of my brats on your delicate sensitivities

+1 on this - apart from the vasectomy bit.  I think some people need to get an empathy gene. Even well behaved children sometimes behave badly particularly in a new, unusual or stressful situation. They are children and due to their inability (on occasion) to control their limitless energy or emotions or both, occasionally annoy. We however are adults and should be able to control ourselves enough to deal with it.

BTW - I get that the majority of comments here are tongue in cheek, but its hard not to get a little annoyed. I hope that even when my children are grown up and long left home I will still have enough tolerance to ignore the occasional badly behaved child or perhaps even help out the worn-down parents in providing a distraction. Its tough being a parent and some of us are better at it than others but ALL of us experience situations where our children do not behave as well as we would like. It would be nice not to be crucified for it.
 

[Wowbagger]

Well said.

There are few situations in my experience as stressful as flying. It's a totally unnatural state to be in and any failure of the life support machine you put yourself in in order to survive at 30000 feet is almost certain to be fatal. If that's not bad enough, these days passengers are treated like total scum by the people whose job it is to oversee the boarding and disembarking process. I'm surprised that so many people put up with it and I think children are perfectly entitled to throw gargantuan wobblers when put in that sort of situation.

[why1040]

My brother and I were used to flying from a young age.  I started at 4 months old.  The only time I caused a fuss was when I was 6 months old and was returning home with my mother (we lived on an island) with a stonking ear infection.  I screamed the entire 40 minute flight-not entirely unreasonably, if my later flight with an ear infection as an adult is anything to go by!

My brother was 2 1/2 when we first did a long-haul flight.  We were moving to the USA, so didn't have much choice but to bring him.  About the only time he made a fuss was when he was about 5 and had growing pains, which made him grisly and unpleasant to be around.  In frustration, my mother eventually got out her Elisabeth Arden 8-hour cream and rubbed some of this "magic cream" on the affected area.  Cue my brother immediately settling and falling asleep...bless him!

So even the most well-behaved and well brought up children (and we were both...we were frequently horrified at how other kids behaved, even when we were little) can have horrid days and there is no way for anyone else to know whether it's a regular occurrence or a one-off.

Of course it's frustrating to sit on a plane with a screaming baby, but it's also horrid to have to sit next to an adult with a personal hygiene problem, someone whose elbows seem to insist on working their way into your chair space all the time, drunk nitwits who insist on causing hassle, or my personal favourite, the bloke who thought I'd enjoy his hand on my lap every now and then.  The difference is, kids really don't know any better, but adults should.

[TimC]

It's quite simple. If you don't want to have other people's kids inflicted on you during a flight, don't get on a plane.

That way, you won't be guilty of your part in the emissions of noxious fumes that are killing lots of other people's kids.

Works for me. 

If the above is true, then how have you come by the experience to make the following statement?

There are few situations in my experience as stressful as flying. It's a totally unnatural state to be in and any failure of the life support machine you put yourself in in order to survive at 30000 feet is almost certain to be fatal. If that's not bad enough, these days passengers are treated like total scum by the people whose job it is to oversee the boarding and disembarking process. I'm surprised that so many people put up with it and I think children are perfectly entitled to throw gargantuan wobblers when put in that sort of situation.

And, I agree, Urban Biker has a damn good point.