Author Topic: Liverpool  (Read 26312 times)

citoyen

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Re: Liverpool
« Reply #100 on: 03 November, 2020, 09:15:48 am »
Liverpool top - with the worst defensive record in the division; 15 conceded.  7 of those were against Aston Villa and Saint Van Dijk, the "world's greatest defender ever" was playing for Liverpool.

Just to get back to actual football, did you watch the Villa game? It was insane. Probably the most ridiculously open game of football I have ever seen. Villa could easily have got into double figures if their finishing had been better, and Liverpool should have bagged half a dozen goals themselves, despite being absolutely dreadful in all areas of the pitch.

Kind of nice to see evidence that Van Dijk is actually human and not some mad football cyborg sent back from the future.  ;D
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Liverpool
« Reply #101 on: 03 November, 2020, 09:41:13 am »
Ah OK.  Past tense.  You had me worried that they would be missing half their squad for the next few matches  :o ;D
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citoyen

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Re: Liverpool
« Reply #102 on: 03 November, 2020, 10:05:38 am »
Ah OK.  Past tense.  You had me worried that they would be missing half their squad for the next few matches  :o ;D

The worry is that this could happen at any time - exactly as it has for Ajax.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Liverpool
« Reply #103 on: 03 November, 2020, 01:39:48 pm »
Ajax, who played Liverpool in the Champions League two weeks ago, currently have 11 players out with covid.
That could make a huge difference to the Champions League. They won 13-0 in the Eredivisie very recently, but if they have a load of players out they will find Midjtyland a lot harder (and they aren't bad).

Re: Liverpool
« Reply #104 on: 06 November, 2020, 03:07:18 pm »
Current table makes interesting reading:-

Liverpool top - with the worst defensive record in the division; 15 conceded.  7 of those were against Aston Villa and Saint Van Dijk, the "world's greatest defender ever" was playing for Liverpool.  It's going to be an interesting season, though I suspect it may be abandoned when the authorities finally realise what an appalling example sportsmen are setting with their cuddling and snogging!

Most teams seem to have forgotten how to defend this season. The number of goals has been ridiculous.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Liverpool
« Reply #105 on: 06 November, 2020, 03:27:38 pm »
No pre-season means that the defensive structures haven't been as well organised. It's an interesting question as to whether the absence of crowds has made a difference...

Re: Liverpool
« Reply #106 on: 06 November, 2020, 04:51:22 pm »
The absence of crowds is probably a red herring introduced to try and explain away these crazy results without having to admit that these hitherto invincible players are actually nothing special.  After all, ALL teams are playing without crowds, so that should even out.  Perhaps the way to decide about crowds might be to study the Scottish lower divisions, where absence of crowds is normal at all times.  I wonder if their results are noticeably different under covid, but it's too tedious to allow of analysis!

One thing is certain, though: Liverpool's foreign legion certainly haven't forgotten how to score!

Re: Liverpool
« Reply #107 on: 06 November, 2020, 04:59:28 pm »
Perhaps the way to decide about crowds might be to study the Scottish lower divisions, where absence of crowds is normal at all times.

There was a surreal televised game a few years ago between Rangers (relegated and fighting their way back up through the leagues) and Brechin City.  There were a few locals standing by the sideline on a bleak Scottish winter's afternoon and there was some choice language (thenceforth known as Brechinese) when Rangers players were taking throw-ins or corners just inches away, all picked up on the live broadcast mics.
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Re: Liverpool
« Reply #108 on: 06 November, 2020, 07:01:13 pm »
"Brechinese" - superb!

Mr Larrington

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Re: Liverpool
« Reply #109 on: 06 November, 2020, 07:06:43 pm »
Perhaps the way to decide about crowds might be to study the Scottish lower divisions, where absence of crowds is normal at all times.

There was a surreal televised game a few years ago between Rangers (relegated and fighting their way back up through the leagues) and Brechin City.  There were a few locals standing by the sideline on a bleak Scottish winter's afternoon and there was some choice language (thenceforth known as Brechinese) when Rangers players were taking throw-ins or corners just inches away, all picked up on the live broadcast mics.

A pitch-side mike at the 1982 World Cup once caught a heavily Scottish voice shouting “Archibald, yer a fuckin' wanker!” as Steve of that ilk was about to take a throw-in.
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Re: Liverpool
« Reply #110 on: 07 November, 2020, 02:59:38 am »
Just to get back to actual football, did you watch the Villa game? It was insane. Probably the most ridiculously open game of football I have ever seen. Villa could easily have got into double figures if their finishing had been better, and Liverpool should have bagged half a dozen goals themselves, despite being absolutely dreadful in all areas of the pitch.

Kind of nice to see evidence that Van Dijk is actually human and not some mad football cyborg sent back from the future.  ;D

Stupidly bonkers that game.

As my poor brother noted (we're both long-suffering Spurs fans) "Fooking 'ell, what are the chances of the Spurs beating Man U 6 - 1 at Old Trafford and not being first on Match of the Day ?"
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Re: Liverpool
« Reply #111 on: 07 November, 2020, 11:11:45 am »
One aspect of the lack of crowds is that players and coaches are able to comunicate better with each other.* Whether that favours defence over attack is another question.

Also a lot of teams have taken up the "defend high up the pitch and press even higher" philosophy" with varying degrees of success. Done well this gets a lot of goals. If it all goes wrong the opposition get goals as per the Villa match.

* gives the commentators a work out as well. In one match I watched last weekend there was a loud shout from the pitchside followed by the commentator saying "sorry for that if any of you speak portugese"
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Re: Liverpool
« Reply #112 on: 07 November, 2020, 11:49:14 am »
Also a lot of teams have taken up the "defend high up the pitch and press even higher" philosophy" with varying degrees of success. Done well this gets a lot of goals. If it all goes wrong the opposition get goals as per the Villa match.

The goal that Man U conceded against Istanbul Basaksehir on Wednesday is a good example, see this image:-



That's all 10 outfield Man U players in the opposition half and Demba Ba[1] (now Basaksehir's centre forward) the nearest to the Man U goal by a good 10 yards or so.

1. Yes, sorry Liverpool fans, *that* Demba Ba. This one.
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Re: Liverpool
« Reply #113 on: 07 November, 2020, 12:09:15 pm »
The absence of crowds is probably a red herring introduced to try and explain away these crazy results without having to admit that these hitherto invincible players are actually nothing special.  After all, ALL teams are playing without crowds, so that should even out.  Perhaps the way to decide about crowds might be to study the Scottish lower divisions, where absence of crowds is normal at all times.  I wonder if their results are noticeably different under covid, but it's too tedious to allow of analysis!
I'm not saying that the presence or absence of a crowd is responsible for Liverpool conceding 7 or Utd conceding 6 or Citeh conceding 5 or any of the other high scoring results. Last year Southampton conceded 9, and they were actually pretty good.
I just think that the crowd inducts emotion into the players, and emotion means that you make different decisions. It can influence how a player feels about taking risks. You see it all the time (most often with younger players) - as players get abuse they take fewer and fewer risks because they know what happens if they do something wrong. Playing without fear and doing what your boss has told you to do is a lot easier when 30,000 people aren't yelling at you for doing it wrong.
Put yourself in the scenario as a fan - your team is 3-0 up, pouring forward like they have all game, and get caught on the break and it's 3-1. If you are expecting to win the game, you probably think it's time to get #4. If you aren't expecting to win the game, you just want it all be be over and get to the end at 3-1. Crowds communicate that sort of thing very effectively to the players - you can hear it happen.  The tension suddenly rises, and what was a cruise to victory becomes all panicy. You can also hear when teams are playing badly, the crowd will get on their back and further inhibit them - Everton are a good example of this over quite a few years.
Alternatively, look at goal celebrations - players involve fans (when they are in the stadia) when they score because of the emotion pouring down from the stands.
You can't draw a conclusion by comparing with lower league teams, because those players are used to not having (significant) crowds, and don't feed off the emotion like the top level players do.

Fundamentally for Villa (strange how we're still talking about that), I think it was an issue about the front half of the team not working in concert with the back half (and neither with the goalkeeper). The back half were playing as if they had a sweeper keeper, and pressure on the ball. The front half weren't pressing, either because they were confused as to who to press or because they weren't thinking they were supposed to press. If you're high, with a stay-at-home 'keeper and no pressure on the ball, they are going to get in behind time after time.

And that picture is astonishing. Ole called it schoolboy, but if that happened in a schoolboy game you're wondering about the coaching. Also, no fans means that Ole (+staff) should have been yelling at whichever defender was last man not to wander. And there's no pressure on the ball either.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Liverpool
« Reply #114 on: 07 November, 2020, 04:23:57 pm »
The goal that Man U conceded against Istanbul Basaksehir on Wednesday is a good example, see this image:-

That really is not a good example of the high press - it's more an example of a team in total disarray. Their defending was absolutely shocking in that game.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Liverpool
« Reply #115 on: 07 November, 2020, 05:06:04 pm »
The goal that Man U conceded against Istanbul Basaksehir on Wednesday is a good example, see this image:-

That really is not a good example of the high press - it's more an example of a team in total disarray. Their defending was absolutely shocking in that game.

Well, yes, that was the joke.

(And an excuse to bring up Demba Ba in a Liverpool thread...)
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Liverpool
« Reply #116 on: 07 November, 2020, 08:39:58 pm »
Well, yes, that was the joke.

Sorry! Slow on the uptake today.

Quote
(And an excuse to bring up Demba Ba in a Liverpool thread...)

I just ignored that bit.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Liverpool
« Reply #117 on: 13 November, 2020, 08:03:13 am »
Anyone play centre back and got their boots with them?

Re: Liverpool
« Reply #118 on: 13 November, 2020, 09:02:46 am »
The scouts will be working overtime. Let's hope they pick up more bargains in the January sales!
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citoyen

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Re: Liverpool
« Reply #119 on: 13 November, 2020, 09:11:14 am »
Nah, give Billy Koumetio a run out. Only 17 but looks like he would put the fear of god into the average Premier League striker.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Liverpool
« Reply #120 on: 13 November, 2020, 10:27:41 am »
Nah, give Billy Koumetio a run out. Only 17 but looks like he would put the fear of god into the average Premier League striker.
He's a real prospect, but you don't want to play him alongside another youngster. A back 4 of Neco Williams, Rhys Williams, Nat Philips and Andy Robertson looks like a league cup lineup. And Robbo needs a rest too. I've not included Matip, because he managed a total of 13 appearances last season (that's appearances, not starts). If he or Fab are fit it looks a bit better, but I reckon we'll be seeing Milner at fullback and a CM at CB a few times in the next couple of  months.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Liverpool
« Reply #121 on: 13 November, 2020, 10:38:32 am »
Rhys Williams looks the absolute business already. I'd be confident playing him against most forward lines in the premier league, or even Europe.

Koumetio is an unknown proposition, but in all seriousness, I'd rather see the club give the youngsters a chance than sign some ageing free agent who was deemed surplus to requirements at Watford.

Watford!
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Liverpool
« Reply #122 on: 13 November, 2020, 01:16:41 pm »
Agreed that it wouldn't be a good idea to sign an indifferent stop-gap defender, but that's not the way Lpool do things these days.  They will pay top dollar for a long-term signing, and their recent signings have all been fantastic both ability-wise and financially.
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citoyen

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Re: Liverpool
« Reply #123 on: 13 November, 2020, 01:22:32 pm »
Agreed that it wouldn't be a good idea to sign an indifferent stop-gap defender, but that's not the way Lpool do things these days.  They will pay top dollar for a long-term signing, and their recent signings have all been fantastic both ability-wise and financially.

They can't do that until January at the earliest though. Question is whether or not to make a short-term signing to cover the immediate shortage, which means a free agent.

If the answer is "Daryl Janmaat", you're probably asking the wrong question.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Liverpool
« Reply #124 on: 13 November, 2020, 02:02:16 pm »
If the answer is "Daryl Janmaat", you're probably asking the wrong question.
Especially since he's an indifferent right back! :)

Rhys Williams will have to play in Europe - Phillips and any newly signed player wouldn't be eligible for the Chapions league until the knockout stages.