The fascination of war films and books

[GruB]

I bought Jarhead today for 3quid in Woolworths.

I have always enjoyed war stories, the more factual the better.  I normally enjoy the story in the written format but following the brilliance of Black Hawk Down and Saving Private Ryan I thought I'd give Jarhead a go.

It is not the death, but more the battle with survival and the finality of it when you get it wrong.  The special effects are normally brilliant too.

I see war as a bit of a competition.  One side vs the other. 

[Really Ancien]

I like a war film, the less action the better. MASH, Catch 22, Ice Cold in Alex and Paths to Glory.

Damon.

[geraldc]

I found the books of Blackhawk down and Jarhead to be far better than the films.

On the other hand I did prefer the TV series of Band of Brothers to the book.

[rae]

Battle Picture Library.

[andygates]

Tora Tora Tora every time...

...who was it who famously said that everyone wonders what it would be like if they went to war?  Hemingway?

[Cunobelin]

The Fortunes of War
..and I'll tell the plain
are a wooden leg
or a Golden Chain


Written anonymously soem 300 years ago, but still true

[redshift]

My recent reading has been all WWII, in that the 3 books I bought to take on holiday with me were Stephen Ambrose's 'D-Day', Knut Haukelid's 'Skis against the atom' (Telemark), and George Macdonald Fraser's 'Quartered safe out here' (Burma).

I have to say that no amount of filmic entertainment could ever come close the the memoirs in those books.  Haukelid and Fraser, from the perspective of the man on the ground, and the meaning (or lack of it) from their point of view, are particularly worth reading.  Fraser's view of where British society has gone since the war is also interesting.

[Flying_Monkey]

I have never seen the fascination of war films (or indeed books) as a genre. There are exceptional examples of course, and many films set against the backdrop of war that are superb, butI find most 'war films' dramatically tedious, historically inaccurate and often morally offensive - Black Hawk Down being a case in point. It's not much more than propaganda.

[GruB]

FM,

I agree the films appear to contain a high propaganda content, but that is also part of the psychological draw to them.  I have no desire to be running around getting shot at after watching one, but I do on the other hand stop and think about those that do simply from watching a film.

Jarhead was very similar to my favourite book - Sympathy for the Devil by Kent Anderson.  Here were two highly trained individuals that started to question the war and the ludicrousness of the situation.

I love reading but at present I don't have time to enjoy it.  I would have loved to read Jarhead rather than watch it, but hey ho.

[Frenchie]

I like them too although I do worry about the perspective they offer at times. I really enjoyed the Band of Brothers (?) series for example. I do tend to enjoy most historical movies/series I have to say.

[pcolbeck]

"We Were Soldiers" is my favourite modern war film. It depicts a single battle in the Vietnam war and shows the chaos and carnage of war along with the randomness of death. It shows the battle from both sides and does not really seem to have a political axe to grind as with so many Vietnam movies, it is instead about the behaviour of men under fire. On of the few films with Mel Gibson in that I like.

[woollypigs]

Grub if you want a factual war movie you have to watch this one Conspiracy (2001) (TV), Conspiracy (film - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

"fifteen high-ranking members from all areas of the Nazi government - soldiers, economists, administrators and lawyers...The issue before them is to determine a solution - a final solution - to the Jewish problem"

There is not much of action/special effects going but boy the this run shivers down my back, top movie.

[Really Ancien]

The advantage of war as a setting is that it provides its own disjointed narrative, there are moral decisions to be made against a complex evolving background. The plot can be arbitrary because it is driven by incident. My favourite war book is Naples 44 by Norman Lewis, about his experiences as an intelligence officer. It has been optioned as a film and a director has been appointed, bound to be a disappointment though.

Damon.

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

I think my favourite war book is Catch-22, and my favourite war films are A Bridge Too Far and Dambusters, and I'm ashamed to admit I have a soft spot for Escape to Victory.

[pcolbeck]

What about really bad war movies ? Two that spring to mind are the infamous "Green Berets" about Vietnam staring John Wayne and the crap because it had no budget and was pieced together from bits of other films "Mosquito Squadron" .

[tiermat]

For my money you really can't beat "Johnny Got His Gun", an oldy but a goody(but I notice they have just remade it!).

Johnny Got His Gun (1971)

For a light hearted side to the first Iraq conflict I really enjoyed "Three Kings", especially the exploding cow....

Three Kings (1999)

[blackpuddinonnabike]

I'd probably say Catch-22 for a book as well.

Films, hmmm. There's one scene in Hamburger Hill that hit me (bloke with legs blown off trying to get up to carry on fighting) and I'll always watch Full Metal Jacket (which is really two films in one).

[Really Ancien]

Then there's Das Boot, the only war film to be condensed into a Techno Dance track.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Nwc0shJ2aYc&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Nwc0shJ2aYc&rel=1</a>

Damon.

[Frenchie]

Das Boot, now that you remind me Damon!, is a favourite of mine. I can't help watching it whenever it is on TV.

[Really Ancien]

I searched on 'Das Boot' because I much prefer the 6 part TV series and I always thought that the film was a condensed version of that, it turns out that the film came first and the TV series was an expanded version using unseen footage. There are various long edits and director's cuts about. On interesting fact is that the sequences shot in the submarine hull with the crew running were done with a custom made Gyro-stabilised mount for an Arriflex 35 mm camera, it looks like camcorder footage but it is 35mm. The Gyros were so noisy that some dialogue had to be dubbed later. They had a mocked up U Boat and one day they turned up to shoot and found that someone had hired it to Spielberg for Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Damon.

[Frenchie]

In France the series was what I saw first; with my grand dad in fact, on holidays in Le Pouliguen! I was a kid but still remember it. We watched it in B&W on our holiday TV. Then I discovered the movie version.

[LEE]

As Tiermat mentions - "Johnny Got His gun" is pretty incredible really, I haven't seen it for 20 years I bet but it made a lasting impression.

I grew up with "The World At War" documentary series.  I loved them then and I loved them last month when they were repeated back-to-back.  One of those rare "epic" documentaries.

Nothing really competes with the realism (and therefore horror) of reality I find.

[Cunobelin]

From what I understand from recent films.......

Only american soldiers sailors and airmen were involved in WW2
Only american soldiers seaman and airman did anything brave in WW2
All bravery on Land Sea and Air was performed by Americans
All secret work was done by americans
America saved the world.

(Did I miss anything?)

[pcolbeck]

The Axis forces were there too to give the Americans someone to fight with.

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

From what I understand from recent films.......

Only american soldiers sailors and airmen were involved in WW2
Only american soldiers seaman and airman did anything brave in WW2
All bravery on Land Sea and Air was performed by Americans
All secret work was done by americans
America saved the world.

(Did I miss anything?)

You missed out the Brits, who did try to help but generally were so posh they were unintelligible, and they were all well-meaning bunglers.