AUK Trophies was: 2017 AUK Reunion

[bikey-mikey]

I'm responsible for producing all the trophies, and I went on record last year saying that the trophies were very nearly not ready. I explained the many stages, obtaining all the various 'winners' names (which come from all over the place), preparing proof listing to send to the supplier, checking suppliers actual proof documents, inevitable error correcting so another cycle of the same, giving OK to produce, actual  engravings take place, trophies sent to me, receipt of trophies, checking every one for accuracy, and inevitable reengraving for odd errors, plus then labelling for recognition in poor light, (you can never read the inscriptions at any dinner venue, being out of the spotlight, as it were), organising into order, and repacking.

Of course it also takes as much as half a day just laying them out at the venue, so I don't get a chance to go on the fun rides etc

Someone suggested last year at the meeting before the dinner that we should have the event closer to the end of season, to which I said "That would just be a meeting and dinner because there would be no trophies".

There was a mention of a date around 23rd Nov, which would have been sensible, but somehow we've gone a full 8 days earlier than last year, and there may well be no trophies, if the perms and Calendar results arrive as slowly as last year. In fact, from my recollection , last year the last results arrived beyond this year's actual dinner date, so it's anyone's guess.

The problem is not so much the calendar events, where you can guess whether anyone could have obtained enough points to change a winner, and contact the organiser for guidance (though there was, I think, an organiser of a very late calendar who went on holiday...) but rather the perms, where someone may have held back a big pile to try and ambush a competitor. (Not the way an audaxer should treat a fellow rider).  Postal finishes are inevitably slower, and often riders neglect to respond quickly because they don't understand the rush... The validations team are first class of course but even they can't validate something that hasn't reached them....

I would hope that everyone will co-operate and I won't have to draw a line and say "tough luck matey"



Right, I'm off for my last ride of the season.... 

[Arry-R]

I'm responsible for producing all the trophies, and I went on record last year saying that the trophies were very nearly not ready. I explained the many stages, obtaining all the various 'winners' names (which come from all over the place), preparing proof listing to send to the supplier, checking suppliers actual proof documents, inevitable error correcting so another cycle of the same, giving OK to produce, actual  engravings take place, trophies sent to me, receipt of trophies, checking every one for accuracy, and inevitable reengraving for odd errors, plus then labelling for recognition in poor light, (you can never read the inscriptions at any dinner venue, being out of the spotlight, as it were), organising into order, and repacking.

Of course it also takes as much as half a day just laying them out at the venue, so I don't get a chance to go on the fun rides etc

Someone suggested last year at the meeting before the dinner that we should have the event closer to the end of season, to which I said "That would just be a meeting and dinner because there would be no trophies".

There was a mention of a date around 23rd Nov, which would have been sensible, but somehow we've gone a full 8 days earlier than last year, and there may well be no trophies, if the perms and Calendar results arrive as slowly as last year. In fact, from my recollection , last year the last results arrived beyond this year's actual dinner date, so it's anyone's guess.

The problem is not so much the calendar events, where you can guess whether anyone could have obtained enough points to change a winner, and contact the organiser for guidance (though there was, I think, an organiser of a very late calendar who went on holiday...) but rather the perms, where someone may have held back a big pile to try and ambush a competitor. (Not the way an audaxer should treat a fellow rider).  Postal finishes are inevitably slower, and often riders neglect to respond quickly because they don't understand the rush... The validations team are first class of course but even they can't validate something that hasn't reached them....

I would hope that everyone will co-operate and I won't have to draw a line and say "tough luck matey"



Well said bikey-mikey. I thought years ago that the practice of hoarding perm cards so fellow AUKs didn't know what you were up to.  Pretty sure it's two weeks.  As soon as you insist on a deadline and bring in the "Tough luck Matey" the message will sink in.  Many moons ago I'm pretty one of the mileating Ladies was far too slow sending her mileage in and lost out. Well done and thanks for all you do.  Your only plus side perhaps is not having to chase the actual original trophies  (as Pam and Rocco did) as they are ensconced in the Cycle Museum in Llandrindod Wells.

[bikey-mikey]

Funny I thought that’s what your original post did.... I didn’t in any way make “an excellent post about how this has all got out of hand”, but merely pointed out the necessary time scales to get things done, so as to encourage folks to get results up quickly.

I’m all in favour of increasing the range of awards to include a much wider selection of riders, heading towards a much more inclusive AUK.

Not intending anything else, so I’m happy to delete mine if you delete yours...

By the way, can I assume that there are no outstanding DIYs from last season ?

Mikey

[jsabine]

I respectfully ask that you don’t make guesses about the views I hold
AndyC

Andy, when you say "you make an excellent case for this all having got out of hand" and "it surely must be time for a re-think", it seems to me quite reasonable to infer that you think there are currently too many trophies/awards.

It's now clear you didn't mean to imply that, but people will *always* read beyond the words of a post.

[Charlie Polecat]

Why trophies? Is this like having to coax children to attend school everyday by giving them a present?  Surely, if you are a randonneur, you ride because you want to ride, I just don't get the necessity of trophies. It's as if everyone is waiting for Christmas.

[jsabine]

Why trophies? Is this like having to coax children to attend school everyday by giving them a present?  Surely, if you are a randonneur, you ride because you want to ride, I just don't get the necessity of trophies.

I don't think there's any necessity. Some people like points, some people like badges or medals, some people like trophies, and others don't. Some people find such fripperies help to motivate them, some don't.

It is, though, nice to publicly recognise the achievement of riders who have reached or surpassed certain milestones, and it's a bit more inclusive to celebrate *everyone* who's reached Ultra Randonneur or 100 points (or whatever) rather than only the one person who's hit 143 (or whatever). It's not compulsory for the riders to appreciate it.

[bikey-mikey]

Though this is not the time and place for an in depth discussion, I find myself agreeing with the gist of Andy's post, and I would be happy to be co-opted onto some sort of group, formal or informal, to review, perhaps over the winter, possibly to prepare something for the Board to consider, in advance of the next AGM........

There are indeed award anomalies which need discussion, and I believe that if the systems are being upgraded this might be a sensible time to review the awards as well...

Once again I am trying to 'get off the treadmill' this year, and not think about points.. a project like this would help I suppose - wish me luck !

If the systems were able to accurately calculate all the awards by the click of a button, a few days after the season end, most of the workload would be gone. At the moment the results come from all over the place, and may I thank everyone in advance once again, for all their assistance...

[Manotea]

Two anomilies are the physical trophies for low scoring niche competitions and for Brevet/Randonneur awards.  In a world where trophies have to be paid for each year its anomalous that trophies are sometimes awarded on the basis of a handful of rides. Should there not be a minimum threshold (an SR series, say?). Equally whilst its good that annual high riding is recognised, there does not necessarily need to be a paid for trophy. Last time I looked, RUSA K-Hound trophies are ordered and paid for by the recipients....

Resolving these two conundruums would cut the number of trophies to be organised, paid for and presented at the reunion at a stroke....

[Veloman]

Regarding the discussion on trophies and costs etc, why just produce a certificate that recognises whatever you want to recognise?  Would reduce the costs, set-up times, easily administered in terms of calculating entitlements and can be tucked away in a draw, displayed on a wall or freestanding, or used as the basis of keeping warm on a cold day.

[frankly frankie]

No-one is going to print certificates for you.  That would be a lot of work and set AUK back 20 years.  Certificates for individual rides, total points/AAA points, and SR, can be viewed online and printed out from there if you wish.

Some semantic confusion upthread between trophies and awards, I think.

Trophies: are by their nature divisive and contentious - of great interest to a very few at the cost of possibly leaving most others feeling disenfranchised.  And AUK does include the words 'non-competitive' in its core mission statement.

Awards: are there for anybody who can ride a bike, and are a fundamental tool to meet another AUK core aim, to 'encourage, promote, develop ... long-distance cycling'.
I believe there is a new, entry-level, award due to come on stream for next season, the B250 (=5x50km in a season) which is actually a remarkably exclusive little list (if you exclude anyone who goes on to higher things).  See the 2017 beta version at:
http://www.aukweb.net/results/detail/2017/b250/
There are fewer B250s than there are Hyper-SRs.
Anyone who wants to be invertedly snobbish about awards could perhaps consider going for this one?

The website does automatically track and list annual award achievers - a nice wrinkle to add to this would be an e-notification whenever an individual passes an award threshold (such as SR, or 50 points, etc) with a well-designed graphic virtual badge.  Fitbit users will know the sort of thing.

If the systems were able to accurately calculate all the awards by the click of a button, a few days after the season end, most of the workload would be gone. At the moment the results come from all over the place, and may I thank everyone in advance once again, for all their assistance...

There is a page (and I've recently sent Mike the link) that lists all the individual trophies and the top 5 contenders, more or less 'live' thoughout the season.  It's not a public page, because it has been AUK policy to take the heat out of the the trophy debate by de-emphasising lists of this sort.  The same reason that points lists are not displayed in points order (during the current season - though they are re-ordered for past seasons).  Admittedly that one do-it-all page does only list the individual trophies and that doesn't include the tandem, trike, repugnant and FWC categories, which are still subject to the claims process.  And CTC and clubs lists are separate - but very easy to derive from the public lists.

With all due respect to the hard work that Mike is doing, I don't really buy into this tale that it involves a lot of beavering away behind the scenes to get all the trophies stuff together.  There has been a lot of beavering, over many years, to make the whole process smoother and more automated, year on year, ever since the last millennium when it was a pen-and-paper job.  AUK has even moved its season dates earlier by a month to end at September, solely to create more space for this supposed big job to get done in time - a move which has been very damaging in many ways and not least internationally, as all other randonneur organisations around the world had long ago harmonised their seasons with AUK's ending in October.  We are now out of step, and that's not good.
Working against all this streamlining of processes, has been the big increase in popularity of Permanents and particularly of DIYs - resulting in very high levels of rider activity right about this time, all of which then has to be processed by DIY orgs and checked by AUK, this is not an automatic process and inevitably takes time, maybe up to 3 weeks before the guillotine can drop.

Maybe we do need fewer trophies.  Especially since recipients are invited to the reunion at AUK's expense - really? - when you compare AUK entry fees and membership fees, used to pay this bill at current hotel prices - that's just a total mismatch right there, any member who is anti-trophy might feel a little resentful of that.  (apparently I'm wrong about that)
If we lose some or all of the trophies in future would we also expunge the lists of past recipients?

It's interesting though, that many of the people who campaign the loudest to do away with trophies, have in the past been recipients themselves.

[321up]

Especially since recipients are invited to the reunion at AUK's expense

Really?  That's news to us, we have always paid when attending the reunion (as we would expect).

[Jonah]

There are many more trophies to be had at the ACH Winter Ball - traditionally held on the weekend following the AUK AGM
We at Castle ACH love plastic 'n' faux crystal bling at the end of each season - it brings us together for fuck-all material reason

Lars loved his trophies...

[Wycombewheeler]

Why trophies? Is this like having to coax children to attend school everyday by giving them a present?  Surely, if you are a randonneur, you ride because you want to ride, I just don't get the necessity of trophies. It's as if everyone is waiting for Christmas.

I assumed they were there to encourage people to attend the dinner, since anyone who needs encouragement to ride their bike would probably not have found this organisation.

Anyway I'm picking up some mixed messages about whether many people can win trophies or whether they are only available to a few. Is there a list of trophies anywhere on the site?

[Lee Killestein]

There’s this: http://www.aukweb.net/official/trophies/

[hellymedic]

You might find the Hall of Fame page helpful. http://www.aukweb.net/results/fame/

[Charlie Polecat]

Regarding the discussion on trophies and costs etc, why just produce a certificate that recognises whatever you want to recognise?  Would reduce the costs, set-up times, easily administered in terms of calculating entitlements and can be tucked away in a draw, displayed on a wall or freestanding, or used as the basis of keeping warm on a cold day.

Excellent idea.

[Charlie Polecat]

Perhaps it would be appropriate for a sight of the accounts of the organisation showing how much of the members dues go toward providing the trophies.

[Martin]

I enjoyed seeing the "unsung heroes" like those who go the extra mile (or 60) to ECE events up to 200/ 300 and thus get a trophy for 100 points (no mean feat as otherwise it's a 200 a week) at the recent reunions; I've enjoyed helping these riders towards their goal and the chance for everyone to celebrate their achievement. What's wrong with that?

[Martin]

Perhaps it would be appropriate for a sight of the accounts of the organisation showing how much of the members dues go toward providing the trophies.

if you want yes; it's probably almost nothing in the scheme of things as the actual reunion is paid for by the participants most of whom don't get a trophy but still enjoy the event, year after year

did you not know about the trophies when you joined? (if you even did) what a post! exactly why this sort of thing should be discussed on the AUK Forum where people are required to disclose their real names to real people they probably also know and have also met personally rather than hiding behind yacf names and firing random inflammatory posts

My name's Martin Malins by the way, what's yours?

[bikey-mikey]

Frankie, I should clarify that most of the beavering occurs AFTER I get all the results, and it’s related to :-

choosing the exact Trophy / Award / Memento for every recipient, which is tied in to the number of generic awards, such as R10,000, we need, and to the levels of discount negotiable

preparing proofs for every single thing we are going to give out, bearing in mind the differing areas available for glass engraving compared to brass plate engraving

sending the proofs to supplier is quick and easy,but when they have been entered on the suppliers system they send me back their own proofs for checking, which is a very difficult job, needing huge concentration (and I have been checking the whole lot in small batches, and rechecking several more times.) You have to get everybody’s name completely right. Usually you find a few errors, so there’s more work reporting them back, and another wait until I get a new list. Then I’ve got to check the errors have been corrected correctly...

Then I say “GO” and have another wait till they turn up. Last year five huge boxes with over 100 separate items to unwrap, check, rewrap and label, and this can take at least a day, and still you find errors, which you report back, and then you pray....

Bear in mind that each item is in a presentation box, which is then slid inside a tight, thin cardboard sleeve, and whilst getting it OUT is easy, you still need to avoid tearing the sleeve, and getting the presentation box back inside the sleeve without snagging and tearing is a skill you learn.. and each one can take a minute or more for that step alone...

When you’ve got them all individually repacked and labelled, it’s time to repack into the large boxes in the order you want to set them out.

The vast majority are awards that anyone can get if they meet the criteria, and that’s where the bulk of the time goes...

It’s scary because so many people are coming up to get something they may have ridden all year for, and it would be horrible if I’d spelt their name wrong- my ongoing nightmare....

[jsabine]

Perhaps it would be appropriate for a sight of the accounts of the organisation showing how much of the members dues go toward providing the trophies.

if you want yes; it's probably almost nothing in the scheme of things as the actual reunion is paid for by the participants most of whom don't get a trophy but still enjoy the event, year after year

did you not know about the trophies when you joined? (if you even did) what a post! exactly why this sort of thing should be discussed on the AUK Forum where people are required to disclose their real names to real people they probably also know and have also met personally rather than hiding behind yacf names and firing random inflammatory posts

My name's Martin Malins by the way, what's yours?

I don't think it was *that* inflammatory ...

The summary accounts presented at the AGM aren't helpful here, but the management accounts summaries presented to each Board meeting are much more granular, and (along with all other Board reports except confidential ones) are available for download from AUKweb. The April 2017 reports show that the Reunion cost about £11k overall. I don't know how much of that was award/trophy mementoes, but I'd guess most of it will be the cost of inviting Delegates, as a token of thanks for the work they put in on behalf of AUK throughout the year.

Especially since recipients are invited to the reunion at AUK's expense

Really?  That's news to us, we have always paid when attending the reunion (as we would expect).

Sorry ... I wonder if FF has confused it with invitations/expenses for Delegates etc.

Anyway I'm picking up some mixed messages about whether many people can win trophies or whether they are only available to a few. Is there a list of trophies anywhere on the site?

As Lee K and hellymedic have pointed out, there's a moderately extensive list of historically-named trophies which go to a reasonably broad number of riders, organisers, clubs - some on subjectively-decided 'merit,' some after the season's points have been weighed. More recently, we've also offered mementoes/awards to all those who have reached particular milestones - riders with 100 points is still a small group, but it's a bit more inclusive than merely the top male and female point collectors ...

(On that note, one reason for increased numbers over the past couple of awards ceremonies has been acknowledging (and working through the backlog of) riders whose longterm achievements - eg 1,000 points/100,000km - had not previously been formally recognised. Again, a select group - but one that hopefully a few people can aspire to join in the future.)

[Charlie Polecat]

".. rather than hiding behind yacf names.."

I'll have you know we Polecats are very proud of our surname.

And as for joining, when I was born I knew nothing about the British way of life but learnt as I went along, and no one ever said to me when I questioned things: "Didn't you know about any of this when your were born?".

[hellymedic]

I think some of the trophies were originally presented to AUK and then repurposed as individual awards so did not (directly) incur expenditure by AUK.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Yes. Several were originally trophies awarded to AUK by ACP, often at PBP. A couple of others were donated to AUK by individual AUKs.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

If we lose some or all of the trophies in future would we also expunge the lists of past recipients?

It's interesting though, that many of the people who campaign the loudest to do away with trophies, have in the past been recipients themselves.

I don't feel any need to rewrite the past by deleting lists of trophy winners.