Author Topic: Your super powerful rear lights  (Read 33442 times)

Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #175 on: 03 December, 2010, 11:39:53 am »
I think you need to preface your opinion with the words 'it is only my opinion but..'

By the way, I disagree with your opinion.

LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #176 on: 03 December, 2010, 11:57:45 am »
The first Googled website I found was Visual Expert Human Factors: Is The Moth Effect Real? I'm not sure if the specific conclusions apply when riding on the LH side of the road.
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Mr Larrington

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Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #177 on: 03 December, 2010, 12:12:50 pm »
I once had a home-brewed 12 vole system in which the rear light was a 24-LED car brake light.
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mattc

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Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #178 on: 03 December, 2010, 12:21:10 pm »
Flashing red light=bicycle, potentially quite close.

Solid red light could be a moped a mile or two up the road
I am certainly convinced by the argument that in drivers' minds flashing-light=bicycle [haven't seen any research though ... ]

The trouble here is that you are focusing on the scenario of being overtaken on an otherwise empty road. that's not how most accidents happen. most accidents are at junctions, and are usually due to a combination of factors.
e.g. (real anecdata alert:) the only rear end collision I have been near was due to a vehicle overtaking a slower car, not realising there was a bike ahead (or so the driver claimed).
Drivers are usually evaluating a number of data inputs. They may not look at the cyclist they are going to hit for very long. there may be other red lights in their vision.

So here's my conclusion: the evidence exists that flashing lights make motion prediction harder (I didn't make this up). What hasn't been proven is whether this causes more risk to cyclists than the (possible) benefits of flashing lights signalling the presence of a cyclist.

Currently my opinion is that best practice may depend on conditions. in daylight flashers on bikes are probably a good thing. If you're riding on unlit rural roads with NO other cyclists - yup, possibly good, due to more drivers noticing you.
Riding in a group? Definite no-no.
Riding in urban areas, with other cyclists about? Probably a bad thing.

I'm sure we could concoct a number of other grey areas.

An experiment you could do is to spend 3 hours at a (nightime) Audax control, then try overtaking the field again; at some point you may encounter a group of riders with flashing lights on an unlit section. Tell me if their numbers and positions would be easier to assess with steady lights.


(I still can't believe anyone thinks the irregular flashers are a good idea.)
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Mr Larrington

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Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #179 on: 03 December, 2010, 12:24:48 pm »
I once had a home-brewed 12 vole system in which the rear light was a 24-LED car brake light.

One hamster in a wheel is sufficient enough here.

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Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #180 on: 03 December, 2010, 12:44:36 pm »
Flashing - more easily spotted - CSA

Brightness doesn't effect distance estimations - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VN8-4FM01N5-1&_user=1495569&_coverDate=01%2F01%2F2005&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1565929602&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000053194&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=1495569&md5=12677f11e3e306540e91c799a5a60cc1&searchtype=a

I don't think flashing and distance estimation has been examined - my colleague in the area suggests flashers are worse, but the amount of time the target is available effects distance estimation, and he thinks flashing is the same as having less time.



border-rider

Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #181 on: 03 December, 2010, 12:51:38 pm »
I used to run one of each on my commute - my own observation was that the older slow-flashing LEDS alone gave a weird effect of discontinuous movement.  So, one steady for position indicating, one flashy for getting noticed.   The fast-flashing ones don't seem to have that drawback, and if were only to use one then (except in company) it would be flashy.

Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #182 on: 03 December, 2010, 01:40:01 pm »
I still can't believe anyone thinks the irregular flashers are a good idea.

Based on observation of the Cateye LD600, which I imagine to be typical of its type, regular flashing involves all 5 (or however many it is) LEDs switching on and off together, while the random flash only has one LED illuminated at any one time.  So it is 1/5 of the brightness.  Not a good idea.

My impression, based on when I as a driver encounter cyclists with flashing rear lights, is that the distance to the cyclist is harder to judge.  Of course, that shouldn't matter.  But as a cyclist I prefer not to rely on being right, as I have found that to be a non-viable safety policy.  If I use a flasher (which is not very often) it is always in conjunction with a continuous light.

Gaz

Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #183 on: 06 December, 2010, 11:45:10 pm »
I saw a chap tonight with a very strange flasher - <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/CgviWRjznog&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/CgviWRjznog&rel=1</a>

I'm not sure what his tactic is, but mounting a touch on that flash setting to your top tube is a very bad idea. It's only going to shine in peoples eyes, be them drivers, cyclists or pedestrians.

The problem there isn't the brightness, as my light is at least 3x as bright, but it's the angle and the flash setting, if he angled it down a bit and changed the flash setting it would be fine.
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Kim

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Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #184 on: 07 December, 2010, 12:05:52 am »
I saw a chap tonight with a very strange flasher - <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/CgviWRjznog&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/CgviWRjznog&rel=1</a>

Yegods!

I overtook someone on the Dun Run in 2009 using something similar as their only source of light.  While that's annoying under street lighting, it really is something else on a dark country lane.  Madness.

Out of interest, what's the camera?  It's doing a rather good job given the lighting conditions...

Gaz

Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #185 on: 07 December, 2010, 12:59:37 pm »
I saw a chap tonight with a very strange flasher - <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/CgviWRjznog&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/CgviWRjznog&rel=1</a>

Yegods!

I overtook someone on the Dun Run in 2009 using something similar as their only source of light.  While that's annoying under street lighting, it really is something else on a dark country lane.  Madness.

Out of interest, what's the camera?  It's doing a rather good job given the lighting conditions...
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Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #186 on: 07 December, 2010, 01:26:42 pm »
I saw a chap tonight with a very strange flasher - <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/CgviWRjznog&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/CgviWRjznog&rel=1</a>

I'm not sure what his tactic is, but mounting a touch on that flash setting to your top tube is a very bad idea. It's only going to shine in peoples eyes, be them drivers, cyclists or pedestrians.

The problem there isn't the brightness, as my light is at least 3x as bright, but it's the angle and the flash setting, if he angled it down a bit and changed the flash setting it would be fine.
He could probably be done under the provision that lighting must not cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other users of the road.
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #187 on: 09 December, 2010, 10:04:30 am »
Wow, everyone's so close to the buses! Guess that's a london thing - just makes me glad I neither live there nor drive a bus! Having said that, I'm sure I sometimes was as close to buses in Bangalore.
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Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #188 on: 09 December, 2010, 11:24:45 am »
Wipe your forhead after a short ride in London and it's black with soot from buses and taxis.  That's in our lungs as well :(
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Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #189 on: 09 December, 2010, 05:37:49 pm »
I first noticed that when I was a student in London & got a cold. Black residue on tissues after blowing nose.  :sick:
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Kim

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Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #190 on: 09 December, 2010, 05:45:36 pm »
Black snot in London is one of those things that makes Britain great...

Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #191 on: 10 December, 2010, 08:22:24 pm »
It's called humour, Mike  ::-)
 ;D

Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #192 on: 10 December, 2010, 09:21:19 pm »
I've lived, and cycle commuted, in London for years and never had black snot, even the days I used to commute across London on a deep underground lines (albeit the Victoria line not the Northern Line).
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Re: Your super powerful rear lights
« Reply #193 on: 11 December, 2010, 12:58:22 pm »
I used to get black snot when I commuted on the underground.  That was when I lived in Streatham, and would walk to Brixton to get on the Victoria Line.

Since I've been in Croydon, and use a mixture of Tram and the District line from Wimbledon (when not cycling), I haven't noticeably had black snot.

So, either the District line is black stuff free, or that fact that most of my journey is above the ground on that line (vs entirely underground when I used the Victoria line) makes a difference, or possibly the trains use less grubby brakes these days.

Back on-topic.  I just got an Exposure Flare rear lights (to carry as a spare on group rides), and it's impressively bright for such a tiny unit.

I'll use the light meter on it tonight, when the ambient conditions are dim enough not to interfere, and see how bright it is compared to a Cateye TL-LD1100, Dinotte 140R and L&M Vis 180.
Actually, it is rocket science.