Audax Tyres Again

[mrcharly-YHT]

OK, I realise this is likely to be a Stupid Question but this is my first winter on anything but a mountain bike.
Why would I change from my Schwalbe Ones because it is winter?

Rain and increased numbers of car accidents lead to more debris being on the roads. Wet roads means wet tyres, which are easier to puncture (the water acts as a lubricant, making it easier for objects to penetrate or cut your tyre.

So many people switch to a heavier, more puncture-resistant tyre in winter. If snow and ice are expected then that is another reason to switch. Tyres such as the GP 4 Seasons have a special compound that grips better (compared to other tyres) on cold, wet surfaces.

[tom_e]

OK, I realise this is likely to be a Stupid Question but this is my first winter on anything but a mountain bike.
Why would I change from my Schwalbe Ones because it is winter?

I think it's more the case that some people on road bikes ride particularly light tyres in the summer, coz they're nice.  Then switch to something a bit heavier in the winter.  If you ride a more moderate tyre year-round there isn't really a problem. 

I had the impression Schwalbe Ones are supposed to be slightly more sensible rather than all-out lightweight anyway?

[vorsprung]

I had the impression Schwalbe Ones are supposed to be slightly more sensible rather than all-out lightweight anyway?

Schwalbe's current "fast", "light" tyre is the Schwalbe One.  Next years (2016 model, available some places now) is tubeless only.  So they get around the problem of it being not the strongest tyre by making the default way to fit it as part of a system that includes sealant

2015 Schwalbe One clichers are pretty feeble, thinner than the Ultremo ZX

[vorsprung]

The perfect candidate for tubeless. Same tyre all year around.

Hm. Dunno. They seem great but: new rims/wheels required? If they do puncture or fail, near impossible to get off the rim?

Sounds a bit specialised, a hassle to get right, and not very easy to fix if it goes wrong.

Maybe once the technology matures and standards are more universal, I will try tubeless. Right now it seems a bit like electronic shifters: nice idea but maybe too much hassle for self-supported endurance riding?

Nah..... that's too Luddite for words....

Read the other thread....

Crowriver,
Mikey has a Specialized Roubaix with disks, electronic shifting and tubeless tyres.  Last year he did over 13,000km on audax rides.  So evidentially not a hassle
for him

[tom_e]

I had the impression Schwalbe Ones are supposed to be slightly more sensible rather than all-out lightweight anyway?

Schwalbe's current "fast", "light" tyre is the Schwalbe One.  Next years (2016 model, available some places now) is tubeless only.  So they get around the problem of it being not the strongest tyre by making the default way to fit it as part of a system that includes sealant

2015 Schwalbe One clichers are pretty feeble, thinner than the Ultremo ZX

Fair enough, I don't follow the lightweight stuff closely.  I'm still a little sceptical though, since the next years model is now called PRO and is 70g lighter.  That kind of suggests they pitched the One a bit tougher than necessary for a purely racing tyre, even if possibly in retrospect.

[tonyh]

Last year he did over 13,000km on audax rides. 

Point of information: surely over (only) 22 000 km last season.

[vorsprung]

Last year he did over 13,000km on audax rides. 

Point of information: surely over (only) 22 000 km last season.

yeah sorry "over 13000 miles" not km.  Read the wrong bit.  Anyone interested look here http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2015/listride/?Rider=%206372

[fuaran]

So how long do those Schwalbe One last, how many thousand km before they are worn out?
Are there any more durable tubeless tyres?
Is the tubeless Marathon Supreme available yet?

[Morat]

OK, I realise this is likely to be a Stupid Question but this is my first winter on anything but a mountain bike.
Why would I change from my Schwalbe Ones because it is winter?

Rain and increased numbers of car accidents lead to more debris being on the roads. Wet roads means wet tyres, which are easier to puncture (the water acts as a lubricant, making it easier for objects to penetrate or cut your tyre.

So many people switch to a heavier, more puncture-resistant tyre in winter. If snow and ice are expected then that is another reason to switch. Tyres such as the GP 4 Seasons have a special compound that grips better (compared to other tyres) on cold, wet surfaces.

Eek. OK, thanks! I guess I'll be testing the alleged puncture proofing on the Ones for now

[Kim]

OK, I realise this is likely to be a Stupid Question but this is my first winter on anything but a mountain bike.
Why would I change from my Schwalbe Ones because it is winter?

Rain and increased numbers of car accidents lead to more debris being on the roads. Wet roads means wet tyres, which are easier to puncture (the water acts as a lubricant, making it easier for objects to penetrate or cut your tyre.

Partly that, but mostly because it's a lot less fun to repair a puncture when it's cold/dark/wet and you can't feel your fingers properly.  It's even less fun to fail to repair one, when you're dressed for riding rather than standing around.

[Morat]

I had the impression Schwalbe Ones are supposed to be slightly more sensible rather than all-out lightweight anyway?

Schwalbe's current "fast", "light" tyre is the Schwalbe One.  Next years (2016 model, available some places now) is tubeless only.  So they get around the problem of it being not the strongest tyre by making the default way to fit it as part of a system that includes sealant

2015 Schwalbe One clichers are pretty feeble, thinner than the Ultremo ZX

Although Schwalbe's Marketing Facts would have you believe that they are more puncture proof resistant.

[crowriver]

From the MTB experience:

"You've heard the hype about tubeless tires, and you're wondering if they're really worth while. Well, for most riders, the answer is probably "no." So, who SHOULD go tubeless?"

http://www.utahmountainbiking.com/goodies/go-tubeless.htm

[crowriver]

Mikey has a Specialized Roubaix with disks, electronic shifting and tubeless tyres.  Last year he did over 13,000km on audax rides.  So evidentially not a hassle
for him

Different philosophies I suppose! 

He seems the archetypical "fast and light" rider.
I'm more of a "saddlebags at dawn and midnight" rider.

 

[crowriver]

rural Scotland, pissing with rain, in the dark

Though possibly Wales. And a long walk back if you can't sort it...

Indeed.

Maybe I'll place more emphasis on p*******e protection...

[vorsprung]

I had the impression Schwalbe Ones are supposed to be slightly more sensible rather than all-out lightweight anyway?

Schwalbe's current "fast", "light" tyre is the Schwalbe One.  Next years (2016 model, available some places now) is tubeless only.  So they get around the problem of it being not the strongest tyre by making the default way to fit it as part of a system that includes sealant

2015 Schwalbe One clichers are pretty feeble, thinner than the Ultremo ZX

Although Schwalbe's Marketing Facts would have you believe that they are more puncture proof resistant.

There's puncture resistance on the main tread
There's resistance to damage to sidewalls
There's general durability

All of these are used by people to gauge "puncture resistance"

On my very small sample of Schwalbe One and Schwalbe Ultremo:

in 300 miles of Schwalbe One I got a massive sidewall puncture.  Actually in the first 100 miles, I binned the tyre when I got home
in 1700 miles of Schwalbe Ultremo (including PBP) I got a lot of highly visible damage to the sidewalls but no punctures.  First set of Ultremos were binned after 1500 miles due to this damage, I just didn't like the look of it.

Feeling them both the One is lighter/more supple/thinner than the Ultremo but not by much

Best bike currently has a Ultremo on the front and a One on the back

So puncture resistance on the centre tread is probably ok for both tyres
Sidewalls are weak on both
Durability is 1500 miles on the Ultremos, don't know on the Ones

[vorsprung]

So how long do those Schwalbe One last, how many thousand km before they are worn out?
Are there any more durable tubeless tyres?
Is the tubeless Marathon Supreme available yet?

bike24 have the Supremes in stock atm.  Annoyingly Mr Schwalbe is only making them in 35mm and bigger

[Bianchi Boy]

I have used Vredestein for years and find then quite puncture resistant. Onto my second pair since the summer and get about 2,000 out of the rear. I always use 25mm. There is a slightly tougher version available that come in 28mm as well. Dont know why these tyres don't get more of a mention.

BB 

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/tyres-road-tri-track-folding-vredestein-fortezza-senso-all-weather/vredtyrf610

[jhob]

I have used to Vittoria Rubino Pro 25 for the last 2 years and, whilst wishing not to tempt fate, I have never had a puncture with them.

[vorsprung]

I have used to Vittoria Rubino Pro 25 for the last 2 years and, whilst wishing not to tempt fate, I have never had a puncture with them.

I have orange rubino pro on my Orbea.  I haven't had a puncture on them ever.  But the Orbea only goes out when it's dry and only on short trips

The grip of the Rubino Pro isn't great, the speed is moderate rather than fast but they do seem "durable" (see above) and of course are cheap.  Wait for ribble to have a sale

The 28mm rubino pros are not full width, quite narrow so the air volume will be less but they might fit where space is tight

Oh yes, when I did mechanic fun at Brampton during LEL '13 ( see https://audaxing.wordpress.com/2013/08/01/common-mechanical-problems-on-london-edinburgh-london/ ) we had a load of (at least 3 sets) of rubino pro at the end.  Dunno why, people just seemed to decide half way through the ride they hated them

[Oaky]

I'm reaching end-of-life on my most used pair of Rubino Pros - the rear is wearing a bit thin, and have recently had a couple of punctures, and the front, whilst not overly worn, has a cut that reaches through to the carcass and which recently resulted in a slow puncture.

They've done 4,500 miles in all conditions, pretty much all of it on East Anglian lanes, with all the skog and flintiness that that involves.  I'm currently trying to nurse them through one more winter at which point they will be replaced with the brand-spanking new Rubino Pro IIIs that I recently purchased.

[vorsprung]

I'm reachingI have reached end-of-life on my most used pair of Rubino Pros - the rear is wearing a bit thin, and have recently had a couple of punctures, and the front...

FTFY

"a bit thin" + "a cut that reaches through to the carcass" is actually, really, truely worn out.  I see this post as a cry for help.  I give you permission to let go of these old tyres.  Keep taking the tablets

[TimC]

I had the impression Schwalbe Ones are supposed to be slightly more sensible rather than all-out lightweight anyway?

Schwalbe's current "fast", "light" tyre is the Schwalbe One.  Next years (2016 model, available some places now) is tubeless only.  So they get around the problem of it being not the strongest tyre by making the default way to fit it as part of a system that includes sealant

2015 Schwalbe One clichers are pretty feeble, thinner than the Ultremo ZX

Fair enough, I don't follow the lightweight stuff closely.  I'm still a little sceptical though, since the next years model is now called PRO and is 70g lighter.  That kind of suggests they pitched the One a bit tougher than necessary for a purely racing tyre, even if possibly in retrospect.

Hmm. So where's the out-and-out racing clincher tyre in Schwalbe's range if it's not the One? I don't really get why people have gained the impression that the One is some kind of tougher, all-weather tyre - Schwalbe have got that covered comprehensively with everything from the Durano to the Marathon Extreme. The One (and the Ultremo ZX before it) are good-weather, smooth-road, racing tyres. If you use them, you take it as part of the deal that they won't last long and they will be fragile. In return, you'll get great dry-weather grip, a smooth ride, and a contribution to the cumulative lightness of your bike.

[vorsprung]

I had the impression Schwalbe Ones are supposed to be slightly more sensible rather than all-out lightweight anyway?

Schwalbe's current "fast", "light" tyre is the Schwalbe One.  Next years (2016 model, available some places now) is tubeless only.  So they get around the problem of it being not the strongest tyre by making the default way to fit it as part of a system that includes sealant

2015 Schwalbe One clichers are pretty feeble, thinner than the Ultremo ZX

Fair enough, I don't follow the lightweight stuff closely.  I'm still a little sceptical though, since the next years model is now called PRO and is 70g lighter.  That kind of suggests they pitched the One a bit tougher than necessary for a purely racing tyre, even if possibly in retrospect.

Hmm. So where's the out-and-out racing clincher tyre in Schwalbe's range if it's not the One? I don't really get why people have gained the impression that the One is some kind of tougher, all-weather tyre - Schwalbe have got that covered comprehensively with everything from the Durano to the Marathon Extreme. The One (and the Ultremo ZX before it) are good-weather, smooth-road, racing tyres. If you use them, you take it as part of the deal that they won't last long and they will be fragile. In return, you'll get great dry-weather grip, a smooth ride, and a contribution to the cumulative lightness of your bike.

the out and out racing clincher is the One.  It was the Ultremo ZX.  Trouble is that Schwalbe are afraid/unwilling to describe this tyre as "not the best tyre to use in the winter or on a gravelly path" because that will put people off.  Instead they say stuff like

It is the fastest and at the same time most reliable competition tyre they have ever made thanks to their new OneStar compound with the added protection of V-Guard under the tread.

All of which is true but doesn't mean that it is as strong as a Durano Plus.  It means that compared to a Michelin Pro Race it's, er, similar

Oh yes, there did used to be a Ultremo ZXL and they did say that this tyre was lighter than necessary for reliable operations

I just found this review of the Ultremo, http://road.cc/content/review/54936-schwalbe-ultremo-zx-tyre which seems pretty accurate to me.   The same is true of the 2015 clincher version of the One.  The tubeless One is a different tyre and will work differently due to the way it is stuffed full of sealant

[pdm]

The Ultremo is pretty new - not used any yet...
I have used Schwalbe Durano Plus tyres. Very puncture proof - same tech as Marathon Plus but much lighter and seem to roll very well. They used to be called Stelvio Plus - I am still running those, not worn them out (or punctured them) yet... They come in 23 and 25.

Update...
Still running Durano Plus tyres.
Worn out 4 so far - they last about 6000 km on the back and about 12000 km on the front. 1 puncture so far due to a shard of glass working through.
I guess I will be sticking with them until (if) the new vittoria graphene tyres prove better??

[zigzag]

another tyre worth a mention is "michelin lithion 2 reinforced". it's a fastish/lightish tyre with folding bead and puncture protection belt. can be had for a song at your local decathlon. i've only used them for 700k but very pleased so far.