Bryan Chapman Memorial 2020

[Pickled Onion]

Ignoring the fact you're suggesting stealing/pilfering from my employer (a sackable offence), this is the 21st century what would we do with envelopes? Email, IM, File sharing, etc. seems to work fine.

On the same theme (being the 21st century) we can see the results on the auk website, I can't imagine many people really want their brevet card back.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I like my brevet cards.

[whosatthewheel]

Ignoring the fact you're suggesting stealing/pilfering from my employer (a sackable offence), this is the 21st century what would we do with envelopes? Email, IM, File sharing, etc. seems to work fine.

On the same theme (being the 21st century) we can see the results on the auk website, I can't imagine many people really want their brevet card back.

It would be pretty hard for any employer to justify in court the sacking for "stealing" 2 x C5 enveloped with a commercial value of 20 pence.
Aside from this trivial issue, the BCM is a BRM and as you know the brevet card is sent to Paris, stamped and returned to the owner. It's a nice memory of the event.

Conversely to what you think, I would be surprised if anyone didn't want his/her stamped card. If you do a search for the Bryan Chapman on Google, you will find several blogs... most if not all of them show the proud picture of the fully stamped Brevet card.


To conclude, all this discussion about post Vs Paypal is completely academic and pointless... the event is successful and oversubscribed, hence the organiser has the luxury to do things the way he wants to do them and the way they work for him... like it or not

[cgg]

I remember reading somewhere else on this forum that BRM cards were not actually sent to Paris. I know, shocking 

Personally I always take a picture of my completed card *before* handing it over. You never know!

I won't be riding the BCM this year but will try to volunteer to help at one of the control.

[fussballclub]

I remember reading somewhere else on this forum that BRM cards were not actually sent to Paris. I know, shocking 

This crossed my mind last week but me not being Colombo could you please elaborate?

[jsabine]

I remember reading somewhere else on this forum that BRM cards were not actually sent to Paris. I know, shocking 

This crossed my mind last week but me not being Colombo could you please elaborate?

The wonders of modern electromagic communications mean that ACP homologation numbers can be generated for us remotely, and we're allowed to attach the stickers ourselves.

This removes the mystique of brevet cards (for BRM rides) having to be sent to Paris, for the details to be transcribed into leather bound ledgers in a dusty basement, but it's a little bit quicker.

[postie]

In the past all cards went to Paris,  now the cards are held by auk till stickers/paperwork are sent from pairs and cards are returned to organizer . well so i am told.

One big issue for a event like B.c.  using paypa,l is the large amount of cash Paypal could refused to release till after the event leaving Richie with no working capital to fund the event.

[Pickled Onion]

It would be pretty hard for any employer to justify in court the sacking for "stealing" 2 x C5 enveloped with a commercial value of 20 pence.

At the risk of derailing the thread:
(a) I work for an employer that demands a high level of trust. Theft, whatever the level, is still theft. Someone was sacked recently for stealing something with a value of under a pound.
(b) you missed the point that we don't have any envelopes to steal
(c) why do you put "stealing" in quotes because it's a small amount? Perhaps you'll also suggest I should shoplift a snack as long as it's low commercial value, drive just a small amount over the speed limit while sending just a brief txt message.

Conversely to what you think, I would be surprised if anyone didn't want his/her stamped card.

No you wouldn't - I've already told you I don't!

[whosatthewheel]

At the risk of derailing the thread...

Indeed, sounds to me like you are on a mission to derail this thread. If you want to boycott the BCM because of the type of entry, please do so. Maybe you should open your own thread about it... 

[Somnolent]

In the past all cards went to Paris,  now the cards are held by auk till stickers/paperwork are sent from pairs and cards are returned to organizer . well so i am told.

We don't even have to wait for anything mailed from Paris any more.  ACP generate a page or pages of 'stickers' electronically for our validation secs to print, affix to the cards, and return to the organiser.  The record for this process (from brevets cards arriving in mail with the validation sec, right through to the cards, complete with stickers, being mailed back to organiser)  is one hour.

One big issue for a event like B.c.  using paypa,l is the large amount of cash Paypal could refused to release till after the event leaving Richie with no working capital to fund the event.

Indeed !
The youth hostel for the event has to be booked two, if not three, years in advance !

But ultimately it is the organiser's event, for them to run as they wish.   Some organisers want ONLY Paypal, some don't want anything to do with it. AUK cannot, will not, impose a requirement for online entry on organisers so.....

I don't have a cheque book, I don't know anyone who does have a cheque book.

Go and ask your bank for one.  Be the envy of all your friends, you'll have something that none of them have got.

[Ajax Bay]

Can we get back to the ride, please, as opposed to arguing about snail mail, envelope sourcing, paypal disadvantages and similar? Richie has been pretty consistent and clear: he wants a posted entry form - and he is putting on this flagship event.
Is the 2018 Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km audax going to be equal to or more than 600km in length? Or is there an Audax UK rule for BRMs allowing some leeway?

[whosatthewheel]

Can we get back to the ride, please, as opposed to arguing about snail mail, envelope sourcing, paypal disadvantages and similar? Richie has been pretty consistent and clear: he wants a posted entry form - and he is putting on this flagship event.
Is the 2018 Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km audax going to be equal to or more than 600km in length? Or is there an Audax UK rule for BRMs allowing some leeway?

Finally!!

As I understand, BRM have to be within 5% of the distance, so 630 km should be the very maximum. Last year it was 607 I think ,but in the past it was longer...

[αdαmsκι]

I've not seen the 2018 route but it'll be over distance. When I rode the BCM in 2010 and 2013 it was around 18km over distance, but since then the route has seen some changes. It'll still be over distance.

You'll get 40 hours under BRM rules to complete the ride.

[C-3PO]

A few good reasons why Paypal and BCM are not a good idea.

1) With Paypal it would become a race for the quickest to press the button, it could easily fill up before you even drag yourself out of bed on the  day registration opens. Post dilutes this effect considerably and gets rid of the "impulse buyers". The LWL filled up in less than 24 hours, BCM would probably fill up in minutes.

2) Paypal will charge roughly 3% of the transaction, so here we are probably talking a loss of 300 quid or so, or a higher entry fee.

3) This is an AUK members event only, I don't think the AUK site has a system that blocks paypal entries for non members, so that would need to be implemented

Putting together the envelopes, cheque and registration form took a whopping 5 minutes of my life... 5 minutes nobody will give me back... it's not that big a deal, is it?

1) not true entries have been open for some time and not closed yet. I'll accept might push entry response out by a week, but anyone desperate enough to enter in seconds will sort out a postal entry way before now. Unless they can't in or some reason. But we shouldn't restrict entry based on access to banking.

2) is the field size 250? I thought it was smaller than that? Still £200 Would still be significant. However 3% of £42 is not going to upset many entrants. I suspect most would be happy to pay £1.50 more

3) not sure how to deal with this, refund entries from non a UK? There are a growing number of high demand sun events, the sun members only requirement could become more popular with organisers, a UK could implement a system where only members who were logged in could see certain events, but this would also inconvenience members of overseas audax organisations which shouldn't be the case.

Well some reasonable reasons and, some seemingly irrelevant ones as well.
Oh well it would appear that unless a solution is found I doubt I will ever enter. Before whoever it was gets busy in his keyboard asking about time etc, I would suggest you re read your comments, I know my responses / posts on Facebook do sometimes appear harsh however, yours are simply unnecessary and, not conciliatory. Systems are in place to enable easy and, fast online entry, if there is a small fee I'm willing to pay it however, what seems to be in place here is some kind of selection process, I have no confidence that if I did post my entry in I'd get a place as, it would appear the organiser is applying filters.

Criticism of Organisers is unhelpful and demoralising.

PayPal fees are not trivial in aggregate and PayPal has caused HUGE problems releasing cash for some Audax events.

Events are run by VOLUNTEERS with Real Lives to lead.

They minimise personal stresses by doing things their own way. Your appreciation and consideration in these matters is anticipated.

[whosatthewheel]

Criticism of Organisers is unhelpful and demoralising.

PayPal fees are not trivial in aggregate and PayPal has caused HUGE problems releasing cash for some Audax events.

Events are run by VOLUNTEERS with Real Lives to lead.

They minimise personal stresses by doing things their own way. Your appreciation and consideration in these matters is anticipated.

Good post!!

[Alex B]

I've not seen the 2018 route but it'll be over distance.

It'll need to change then. I rode the 2016/17 route and (depending on how it's measured/calculated) that route is probably a tad under-distance. This year my Garmin tells me I rode 592 km, taking a minor shortcut through Abergavenny and cutting a corner on the Dolfor climb. I believe RWGPS gives a route-plotted-from-the-routesheet as approx 597 km.

Not that I'm grumbling, mind ...

[mattc]

I don't have a cheque book, I don't know anyone who does have a cheque book.

Go and ask your bank for one.  Be the envy of all your friends, you'll have something that none of them have got.

They'll be the next retro hit, like fixies and beards. Soon everyone will have one, and we don't want that, no siree.

[whosatthewheel]

They'll be the next retro hit, like fixies and beards. Soon everyone will have one, and we don't want that, no siree.

I miss the days when I was paid by cheque... bank transfer is nowhere near as satisfying

[Ajax Bay]

I've not seen the 2018 route but it'll be over distance.

It'll need to change then. I rode the 2016/17 route and (depending on how it's measured/calculated) that route is probably a tad under-distance. This year my Garmin tells me I rode 592 km, taking a minor shortcut through Abergavenny and cutting a corner on the Dolfor climb. I believe RWGPS gives a route-plotted-from-the-routesheet as approx 597 km.

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/20922029

[whosatthewheel]

I've not seen the 2018 route but it'll be over distance.

It'll need to change then. I rode the 2016/17 route and (depending on how it's measured/calculated) that route is probably a tad under-distance. This year my Garmin tells me I rode 592 km, taking a minor shortcut through Abergavenny and cutting a corner on the Dolfor climb. I believe RWGPS gives a route-plotted-from-the-routesheet as approx 597 km.

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/20922029

Thanks for that... seeing the last control is Llandriddod Wells, assuming having time in hand, would it be unwise to head towards Hay and climb the Gospel pass down to Abergavenny? I think it's such an iconic climb in Wales that it would be a shame to miss it...

But then again, by then I might be so tired that I won't be bothered 

[Somnolent]

https://www.strava.com/activities/987395268    315km
https://www.strava.com/activities/987395128    289 km
Not difficult to use 'free-routing' to make up the distance with some pleasant (and not at all arduous) little detours if that's your thing.

[Manotea]

This 'under distance' issue can be resolved simply by Richie declaring the published event route as ' mandatory' (and offering any body not content with that a refund - I imagine there would be zero takers). It would save a lot of grief.

Be careful what you wish for make a fuss about.

[Alex B]

This 'under distance' issue can be resolved simply by Richie declaring the published event route as 'mandatory'

The published event route is under-distance.

Personally I don't mind at all!

[Manotea]

This 'under distance' issue can be resolved simply by Richie declaring the published event route as 'mandatory'

The published event route is under-distance.

Personally I don't mind at all!

Thanks for the heads up. I'm out if date, as my last BCM was >20km over.
But people complain when events are under and when they are over.
Life's too short. It is what it is.

[Bianchi Boy]

Life is too short for all this discussion of under and over distance. If you want to cheat then please go elsewhere. The BCM is a great ride if you want to ride it then great, if you want to moan and whine then just go away.

BB

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