Round The Year Randonneurs Log

[Greenbank]

61 day month

A 59 day month. Unless Mike is also extending February to 30 days?

[Stephen Kirkby]

A fellow Audaxer on the Willy Warmer stated that due to the bad weather in January it was going to be declared a 61 day month. Therefore a ride in February could be counted as a January. This information was coming out in the next Arrivee. Does anyone know whether this is actually the case?

Hardly relevant if you rode the Willy Warmer

[mikewigley]

61 day month

A 59 day month. Unless Mike is also extending February to 30 days?

Certainly not, though I'm going to trial a 29 day February in 2012

[LEE]

I hope that months are not "extended" to allow for bad weather.  Surely that's the entire point of RRTY, it's difficult in winter and it's difficult to find free time every month.

My bike frame snapped on a September 200 causing a DNF.  It's just tough luck.

There's no real challenge, for most Audaxers, in riding 200km in good conditions.

If it's impossible then it's impossible.  Start again. It's a challenge.

[Bigsybaby]

A fellow Audaxer on the Willy Warmer stated that due to the bad weather in January it was going to be declared a 61 day month. Therefore a ride in February could be counted as a January. This information was coming out in the next Arrivee. Does anyone know whether this is actually the case?

Hardly relevant if you rode the Willy Warmer

Alas....I started but did not finish

[BlackSheep]

Fellow RRTYer's and AAARTY's, it's up to Mike and Steve what they do with their awards.  

Agreed - to a point, they are the administrators. You complete 12 conscutive qualifying rides, and you're entitled to the accolade.


quote author=Frere Yacker link=topic=4705.msg520286#msg520286 date=1263252747]
If they are more comfortable with extending the qualifying period for rides for fear of riders taking unecessary risks then that's their call.
[/quote]

Stronly disagree, it's the organisers that have done the RA's and carry the can (if it's there to be carried) following a ride incident. Winter carries it's own risks, however - every month of the year carries it's own risks - many of them much more dangerous than snow or ice.

I don't expect it will happen, but I (more than) strongly suspect if the evidence were ever presented, January 2010 results wouldn't be much differant to any other January.

To make things convinient, I challenge Steve and Mike to administer the PYTTY (Please Yourself Throughout The Year) for claims made where there's a month missing.

[simonp]

Perhaps someone who feels strongly enough could set up their own competing award.

[Martin]

well I'm 3 days away from breaking RRTY x 4 after 10 months; I don't think even if I waited for Jan 59th it would happen

I have a more realistic goal to aim for...

[Weirdy Biker]

It's the organisers that have done the RA's and carry the can (if it's there to be carried) following a ride incident. Winter carries it's own risks, however - every month of the year carries it's own risks - many of them much more dangerous than snow or ice.

I don't think anyone would seriously argue Mike and Steve have a duty of care to people participating in the RRTY etc.  As you imply, any duty of care (if any) would most likely fall on the organiser.

My original comment simply reflected that, if I were in their shoes, I wouldn't take any comfort if I heard that a rider had been involved in an accident and that the reason they were out on the road was in part because they didn't want to "break" an RRTY chain.  It would weigh on my conscience (whether justified or not).

[mattc]

Perhaps someone who feels strongly enough could set up their own competing award.

This has been suggested several times already - oddly no-one has yet stepped forward

[mikewigley]

Perhaps someone who feels strongly enough could set up their own competing award.

Someone who feels strongly enough just wouldn't claim a February event for a January RRTY

I don't think anyone would seriously argue Mike and Steve have a duty of care to people participating in the RRTY etc.  As you imply, any duty of care (if any) would most likely fall on the organiser.

I don't feel I have a duty of care, both as the RRTY administrator, nor as the Organiser of the Winter Solstice (which I DIDN'T cancel).  I would hide behind the "it's up to the rider not to make the wrong decision about cycling" clause.  Having said that, there were 4 riders out doing the Winter Solstice and I couldn't feel easy about this until I'd heard that they had arrived safely back.  I was in no position to reach any cyclist in trouble, so they were on their own, but it's still me who has to fill in the accident reports.  (None needed!)  These were my friends out there so of course my heart was in my mouth.

So riders perhaps have a duty of care to ME, not to put me to unnecessary distress?

I remember a fell race hitting the main national news, was it early in 2009?  Lots of runners were lost in the wilds during dreadful weather conditions, but it later transpired that all were were safe, were well equipped, and had taken suitable shelter where necessary.  I don't want to be castigated on the national news for sending cyclists out in an unprecedented prolonged icy spell.  Audax UK doesn't want that sort of headlines.  Of course, I would shrug my shoulders and say that I'd given these cyclists every opportunity to NOT ride, so the folly (if any) is theirs not mine.

I think it is to everyone's credit that there was no hint of such a story, over this winter and during LEL, you know the sort of thing ....

Hundreds of cyclists lost in the floods of Eskdalemuir!

Fortunately, I've only heard of one casualty of the January weather (John Radford) who slipped in the first 2km of his DIY 200.

[αdαmsκι]

I remember a fell race hitting the main national news, was it early in 2009?  Lots of runners were lost in the wilds during dreadful weather conditions, but it later transpired that all were were safe, were well equipped, and had taken suitable shelter where necessary.  I don't want to be castigated on the national news for sending cyclists out in an unprecedented prolonged icy spell.  Audax UK doesn't want that sort of headlines.  Of course, I would shrug my shoulders and say that I'd given these cyclists every opportunity to NOT ride, so the folly (if any) is theirs not mine.

What you refer to was the Mountain Marathon in The Lakes in Oct. 2008 and this is the sort of headlines that event generated. The media certainly didn't look favourably on the organisors.

Anyway, I've done a January 200 and that gets the ball rolling on my first attempt of a RRTY award.

Jan. Willy Warmer 200  ✓
Feb. Rutland & Beyond 102 + ECE 100 ✓
Mar. DIY200 ✓
Apr. The Elenith ✓
May Brevet Cymru ✓
June DIY300 ✓
July Cambrian 3A Perm ✓
Aug. Lincolnshire Cross ✓
Sept. Northern Dales ✓
Oct.  The Clwydian ✓
Nov. DIY200 ✓
Dec. Tinsel and Lanes

[mikewigley]

I remember a fell race hitting the main national news, was it early in 2009?  Lots of runners were lost in the wilds during dreadful weather conditions, but it later transpired that all were were safe, were well equipped, and had taken suitable shelter where necessary.  I don't want to be castigated on the national news for sending cyclists out in an unprecedented prolonged icy spell.  Audax UK doesn't want that sort of headlines.  Of course, I would shrug my shoulders and say that I'd given these cyclists every opportunity to NOT ride, so the folly (if any) is theirs not mine.

What you refer to was the Mountain Marathon in The Lakes in Oct. 2008 and this is the sort of headlines that event generated. The media certainly didn't look favourably on the organisors.

Anyway, I've done a January 200 and that gets the ball rolling on my first attempt of a RRTY award.

Jan. Willy Warmer 200  ✓
Feb. Rutland & Beyond 102 + ECE 100
Mar. The Dean 300 or North Notts Sleepy Villages 150 + ECE 50
Apr. - Dec. ?????

I'm running the Winter Solstice again this Sunday (it would count as a Jan ride, not Dec of course) - but it looks decidedly dodgy again.  I'll be in the car, taking if very easy indeed, trying not to slide into any cyclists

[tonyh]

I feel almost guilty about an easy Mesh 200 last Saturday... 7C and dry and little wind.

"Just" a February ride now, to reach an improbable 5 years. Thanks Mike!

[BlackSheep]

I feel almost guilty about an easy Mesh 200 last Saturday... 7C and dry and little wind.

"Just" a February ride now, to reach an improbable 5 years. Thanks Mike!

Well done on your January ride Tony, Mrs Blacksheep and I ventured out last Saturday and also rode a 200. Our problem wasn't so much the ice - more the swollen river levels causing flooding. When we did encounter the one (and only) section of ice, it was the cars that had the bruising encounters. Have a safe February.

[tonyh]

Thanks Mr Blacksheep, well done to you two too!

(And I regret not getting to any of your fine series of events in 2009.)

Here's to February and the gloriously growing light!

[3peaker]

Quote MW: Fortunately, I've only heard of one casualty of the January weather (John Radford) who slipped in the first 2km of his DIY 200.


You can almost add me to the list as with 1 Jan ride in (RRTY11/8) I elected on Wed to start RRTY12, cos if I left it to Feb it would be RRTY Yr 12 starting in Feb not Jan, if you see what I mean.  Anyway, what 'threw' me was a slimy mud deposited on a wide lane in Coates village by tractor traffic from a field.  I must have seen a pothole ahead, steered to avoid it and just glissaded straight into the pothole.  I landed on my R hip and shoulder, and feared a fracture.  Somehow, I was able to continue to Stroud (Control) and home (Fin Control) in Cheltenham, after replacing a tube and on my L leg and wobbly front wheel.  Could not bear weight on my R leg.  Fortunately, after 36hrs bed rest and with a Doctor home visit, I managed to visit A&E (only 1 mile from home-lucky) where my case was diagnosed as severe bruising of the R hip and pelvis.   And tonight, I am walking more comfortably, so with Feb arriving next week, I hope to continue my 09/10 campaigns.

But the fall did buckle a wheel, muddy my Goretex jacket and smash up another helmet (did not feel the impact but definitely a write off!).  Now had I not been wearing..... I might have been in A&E on Wednesday evening; that is 2 helmets in 8mths!!! I shudder to think of riding without a helmet!!

By the Way: How is JR??

SteveP

[tonyh]

Horrified! Plus delighted that a quick recovery sounds likely, and best wishes for it.

[DanialW]

I just had a dreadful schlep down to Birmingham.

To start with I had a sudden, vicious dose of the squits, which meant an impromptu crap in some scrub in Rochdale. And again in Manchester. The other four times, I found a loo, so things did improve. Then it snowed, really heavily, all the way to Northwich, leaving me covered in oily sludge. I punctured at Midway, and again in Birmingham. Oh and the snow washed my chain clean, leaving me squeaking along for 20km until I could get some 3-1.

At least I didn't break anything, I suppose.

[marcus]

I just had a dreadful schlep down to Birmingham.

To start with I had a sudden, vicious dose of the squits, which meant an impromptu crap in some scrub in Rochdale. And again in Manchester. The other four times, I found a loo, so things did improve.

far too much info about your bowels Danial!

[mikewigley]

I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable at the moment.  In the last week I've been to hospitals to visit John Radford and Adrian Midgley, both victims of slipping on icy roads while cycling, one on an RRTY event, the other on my very own Winter Solstice.  I know it's the rider's own decision to ride, but it's still me encouraging them by running the RRTY scheme and handing out brevet cards on an icy morning  (when 16 out of 17 riders finished undamaged but delayed).

Legally I don't see there's any come back on me.  But these are my friends out there so I'm still responsible for people getting hurt.  I made a concession recently to relax the January requirements (for this January only!) which was mainly welcomed as sensible but some thought it unnecessarily degraded of value of the award.

So, here's the question?  Should we not promote riding round the year?  Is AUK wrong to put on events during the winter months?  Should we have a close season, like the DATC (or CTC Tourist Competition?) from November-February?  What about Perms?

Sent the 32nd of January, by the way!

[Chris S]

Legally I don't see there's any come back on me.  But these are my friends out there so I'm still responsible for people getting hurt.  I made a concession recently to relax the January requirements (for this January only!) which was mainly welcomed as sensible but some thought it unnecessarily degraded of value of the award.

I don't think you are though. Although you operate and administer a scheme that recognises those who ride all year round; that's all it is - you are not organising most of the rides, and those of us who ride DIYs/Perms do so under our own risk assessments. The chances are, we would continue to ride round the year even if there wasn't such a scheme; the challenge is in the rides, not the scheme that recognises them.

That said, recognition is good  .

[phil d]

I'm with ChrisS on this - I think you're too hard on yourself, Mike.  We are all adults**, able to make up our own mind whether to ride.  In poor conditions many will decide not to ride (indeed, with last month's Poor Student all decided not to ride).

I've broken stuff twice when coming off my bike.  Neither time was in the winter (greasy wet road in March, and handlebar failure in August).  I say this not to suggest that winter is safer, but to demonstrate that the outcome you fear can happen at any time of year.

Some folks will be a bit gung-ho about the weather conditions, but I don't think RRTY is necessarily going to make much difference to them.

**edited - except "Mercury" Harry, who will have to defer to Jim's decisions on the matter.

[Phixie]

Agree with Chris & Phil.  You are encoraging people to extend the season, not forcing them.  There is a fringe benefit that the participants in the challenge won't have such a long climb back to fitness at the start of the season.  Also agree you are in no way responsible for problems - it is (usually) not your route, nor can you dictate the timing.  As mentioned, everyone should do a personal risk assessment before deciding whether to ride or not.  Even so, it is natural for you to be saddened by accidents to club mates, but would you feel any better if similar things happened in July? The failure fairy is a round-the-year insomniac.

[Cyklisten]

... and further support from me.
Mike, you created the challenge and there endeth the responsibility. After that it is up to us whether or not we undertake it. I for one was not keen on the extended month and would have declined the award (after ten) had I not been lucky/smart enough to ride a couple of Sundays ago in good conditions on a route devised (by my companion) to use decent roads.
As to accidents, Shit does happen (as Danial describes so ably above ), and can happen at any time of the year. I am not Gung Ho about riding in potentially slippery conditions, having had an unpleasant "off" on black ice two seasons ago. No immediate damage was sustained and as I was 80km into a 200, I carried on. Bloody sore (ribs) for weeks afterwards, though.
I'm sure it Pained Hillary and Tenzing when they read about lives lost trying to recreate their achievement, but was it their fault for proving it possible?