Author Topic: Heating on?  (Read 65177 times)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #300 on: 30 September, 2021, 08:43:52 pm »

Had to tweak the radiators a bit. Temp now 23°C at Shoulder height (sitting), but still 20.9°C at Ankle level.

I'm guessing it's going to take a while for things to circulate properly.

J
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Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #301 on: 30 September, 2021, 10:45:55 pm »
No insulation please, we're BRITISH.

The 1841 house part retains warmth fairly well due to the thick walls, despite the rattly sash windows, but the 1970s flat-roofed "granny annexe" is a thermal sieve.

This is a description that resonates here.

Last year we had the sash windows renovated, so they have better draught proofing (and the actually open!!)
The 1980 casement windows have dun a bad rot and are awaiting replacement.
The wall they are in are of poor quality and cannot have much dine to them.
It is simpler than it looks.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #302 on: 30 September, 2021, 10:49:28 pm »
No insulation please, we're BRITISH.

The 1841 house part retains warmth fairly well due to the thick walls, despite the rattly sash windows, but the 1970s flat-roofed "granny annexe" is a thermal sieve.

This is a description that resonates here.

Last year we had the sash windows renovated, so they have better draught proofing (and the actually open!!)
The 1980 casement windows have dun a bad rot and are awaiting replacement.
The wall they are in are of poor quality and cannot have much dine to them.

It amazes me how awful a lot of the UK housing stock is from an energy efficiency point of view. And in many cases it's next to impossible to improve it without either demolishing it, or essentially adding an extra house over the top of the existing one.

Not to mention the planning committees that stop many a house being improved because it would change the character of the building...

It's gonna be a tough one esp in 10, 20, 30 years time when climate change really starts to bight, and the ability to burn dinosaur farts for warmth is no longer an option.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #303 on: 30 September, 2021, 10:53:36 pm »
What QG says is true.

It is a little-known fact that some years ago, one D. Amess, MP for Saarfend West, "won" the ballot to get parliamentary time for a private member's bill. The result was something called the Warm Homes and Energy Conservation Act 2000. I've never bothered looking at this act, but my guess would be that it's pretty useless. Amess is generally quite useless at everything he does.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #304 on: 30 September, 2021, 11:27:05 pm »
No insulation please, we're BRITISH.

The 1841 house part retains warmth fairly well due to the thick walls, despite the rattly sash windows, but the 1970s flat-roofed "granny annexe" is a thermal sieve.

This is a description that resonates here.

Last year we had the sash windows renovated, so they have better draught proofing (and the actually open!!)
The 1980 casement windows have dun a bad rot and are awaiting replacement.
The wall they are in are of poor quality and cannot have much dine to them.

It amazes me how awful a lot of the UK housing stock is from an energy efficiency point of view. And in many cases it's next to impossible to improve it without either demolishing it, or essentially adding an extra house over the top of the existing one.

Not to mention the planning committees that stop many a house being improved because it would change the character of the building...

It's gonna be a tough one esp in 10, 20, 30 years time when climate change really starts to bight, and the ability to burn dinosaur farts for warmth is no longer an option.

J

Several factors at work.

The housing stock will generally be older on average than a young country's stock.
Replacement isn't necessarily a good thing, if you look at overall carbon cost. Check out the news items on Architects pushing developers to refurb rather than destroy and rebuild.

I went on a fact finding mission to Belfast in the 1990's. There was a lot of regeneration. They were blowing up the Divis flats (1960s?) and building sensitive, community-type developments.

The Housing Person (cannot remember how important he was, but fairly) said that at the current rate of replacement, it would take 1,000 years to replace all the housing stock in Norn Iron.
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: Heating on?
« Reply #305 on: 01 October, 2021, 06:47:55 am »
1st October, and the boiler has been fired up. :thumbsup:

robgul

  • Cycle:End-to-End webmaster
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Re: Heating on?
« Reply #306 on: 01 October, 2021, 07:51:23 am »
1st October, and the boiler has been fired up. :thumbsup:

I too gave in and switched it all on this morning (actually last night adjusting all the Hive controls ready for today) . . . . bleeding radiators will be the job for today.

Mysteriously the Smart Meter monitor isn't showing any gas consumption despite the boiler running for CH (the HW that's from the boiler has shown on the monitor since the SMs were installed in July) - monitor is off now pending a re-boot later this morning.

woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
    • woollypigs
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #307 on: 01 October, 2021, 07:59:07 am »
Don't restart, since you have you found free energy ;)
Current mood: AARRRGGGGHHHHH !!! #bollockstobrexit

Re: Heating on?
« Reply #308 on: 01 October, 2021, 09:05:02 am »
Unlikely that our CH will be turned on until the temperature drops consistently.  It's not cold here in Rugby and as seasoned campers we are used to putting on an extra layer if the need is felt.

I'll perhaps run the boiler up to test it in a week or two.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #309 on: 01 October, 2021, 10:26:10 am »

Several factors at work.

The housing stock will generally be older on average than a young country's stock.
Replacement isn't necessarily a good thing, if you look at overall carbon cost. Check out the news items on Architects pushing developers to refurb rather than destroy and rebuild.

I went on a fact finding mission to Belfast in the 1990's. There was a lot of regeneration. They were blowing up the Divis flats (1960s?) and building sensitive, community-type developments.

The Housing Person (cannot remember how important he was, but fairly) said that at the current rate of replacement, it would take 1,000 years to replace all the housing stock in Norn Iron.

Exactly the embodied energy of the housing stock is considerable. If you have a house that costs you €1500 more per year to heat, than if you demolished it, and rebuilt it to the highest modern standard, but that rebuild is going to cost €150000 to do, then it's hard to argue in favour of it when that's a 100 year pay back time. Esp as the person occupying it now is not going to see that 100 years.

In many respects the UK pays a massive price for being first. First with the railways, we pay the price of a stupidly small loading gauge. Very early participant in the industrial revolution, we pay with a fuck ton of very shitterly built housing stock. etc...

One thing we should at least be doing is making sure all new builds are as energy efficient as possible. But of course that's not happening cos all the developers have found it's more efficient to spend the money on bribing the tories, rather than making their product better...

Ironic that in a future governed by global warming, a lot of us are going to be much much colder.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #310 on: 01 October, 2021, 10:14:12 pm »
We haven't put the heat on. Currently 12°C outside, 19°C inside. That will probably have dropped to 17°C in the morning.

I'm probably in better physical condition than I have been in the autumn for at least 7 years: I'm doing a lot of walking, cycling and sea swimming so presumably my muscle mass is rather higher than it was (>11000 paces or equivalent a day over the year so far) and keeping me warmer. Jan hasn't complained. She's been walking a bit as well but hasn't been cycling or swimming.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #311 on: 01 October, 2021, 10:21:12 pm »

Currently 24.3°C at shoulder height, 22.7°C at ankle height. A very comfortable temp for working at my laptop. I may turn the radiators down a little tho, it feels a bit excessive.

Went into the bedroom last night to find it at 20.1°C, and I couldn't turn the radiator on as I'd piled a load of junk against it. Have now fixed it. Hopefully tonight I will be a more comfortable nights sleep.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #312 on: 02 October, 2021, 12:05:24 am »
One thing we should at least be doing is making sure all new builds are as energy efficient as possible. But of course that's not happening cos all the developers have found it's more efficient to spend the money on bribing the tories, rather than making their product better...

I believe this is a factor in ghastly people blocking motorways and Making It Difficult for Hard Working Families.
It is simpler than it looks.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #313 on: 02 October, 2021, 12:01:13 pm »
Dunno if I've posted one of these before, but I found that plotting daily average temperatures[1] alongside heating use was quite informative.  Victorian houses are all thermal mass, no insulation.




[1] Mean of hourly readings from all rooms.

Mrs Pingu

  • Who ate all the pies? Me
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Re: Heating on?
« Reply #314 on: 02 October, 2021, 12:29:02 pm »
Nice graph.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Re: Heating on?
« Reply #315 on: 02 October, 2021, 12:33:56 pm »
Dunno if I've posted one of these before, but I found that plotting daily average temperatures[1] alongside heating use was quite informative.  Victorian houses are all thermal mass, no insulation.

What software/gubbinses do you use to log these?

Re: Heating on?
« Reply #316 on: 02 October, 2021, 12:50:41 pm »
It amazes me how awful a lot of the UK housing stock is from an energy efficiency point of view. And in many cases it's next to impossible to improve it without either demolishing it, or essentially adding an extra house over the top of the existing one.

It's worth remembering that differing qualities in housing has always existed in the UK.

I live in a 1890's flat, that is part of a terraced house, originally designed for the workers of a mill opposite.
It's single brick and as regards building quality - utter shite.
Elsewhere in Chesham you can find beautifully built, thick walled houses of the same era that are worlds apart in terms of quality - and so much versatile to adapt and improve
in line with modern standards.

The council houses/ flats built after the war during the late 1950's were all internal solid wall construction and some of the best social housing we've ever built.
Then the 1960's arrived followed by the 1970's and a bit like the car industry [gotta love British Leyland, cracks me up] we managed to lower the standards alarmingly. Compared to what went before, some of the garbage that was built is shameful.

And onto today.

As regards insulation though, it's a slippery character, you have to be careful what you're doing with it. People wonder why that stuff the loft full on insulation, block up the air vents of suspended floors and then wonder the roof is dripping with condensation and the floor joists are starting to rot. If you've got a lot of timber in a house....it HAS to breathe. You can still insulate but it's important to respect how the building works. In an odd way a house is a living breathing thing!!

Anecdotally, my flat is flying freehold, suspended over an alleyway. I replaced all the old lathe and plaster ceilings with 100ml celotex and plasterboard some years ago.
In the winter, I can return home and it feels like the central heating has been on low all day [even though I have no central heating] but in the summer, when it's hot [sometimes] it's created a whole loads of other issues - once the heat gets in it's a bloody nightmare trying to cool the thing down again!! I don't want a heat box in the summer! [closes all windows and doors] .

Double-edged sword. Insulation can make a house much colder too. But that's what insulation is supposed to do, right?  It works both ways. So now, with the celotex reflecting heat away, on those sunny spring and autumn days, I'm not getting the sun radiating through a poorly insulated ceiling, and I've made the place cooler than it was before.

It's a slippery beast.
Garry Broad

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #317 on: 02 October, 2021, 12:52:20 pm »
Dunno if I've posted one of these before, but I found that plotting daily average temperatures[1] alongside heating use was quite informative.  Victorian houses are all thermal mass, no insulation.

What software/gubbinses do you use to log these?

It's a vastly complex and fairly expensive homebrew system based on an assortment of Raspberry Pis, ESP microcontrollers, Dallas one-wire sensors and the usual Linux applications.  The primary function is to provide visual alerting and communication for barakta, but heating/lighting control and environmental monitoring are a useful spin-off (it being relatively easy to add sensors once you have a micro in every room).  If I just wanted to do heating control, I certainly wouldn't start from here.

If I handwave the hardware and assume that there's something spewing temperature readings and boiler status to MQTT, then the answer in this instance is "a hacky Java application that collates the data and RRDtool to plot the graphs".

Re: Heating on?
« Reply #318 on: 02 October, 2021, 12:59:37 pm »
I have resisted approaching the radio controlled device which fires up the boiler.
I have, however, closed the window in my office/studio/workshop.
It'll probably stay that way until mid May next year.
The bedroom windows remain open.
For the moment.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
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Re: Heating on?
« Reply #319 on: 02 October, 2021, 01:01:15 pm »
When we rejigged the Grand Bedchamber of Larrington Towers into a split-level creation we installed a new “ceiling” attached to the whatever-you-call-those-sloping-wooden-beams-that-support-the-roof, molished from Celotex.  The vast majority of it faces more or less west, which means that in the summer it's fighting a losing battle with the black slate roof :-\  It's probably begging to have solar panels installed on it, but that would involve disagreeable Stuffs like spending money and laying waste the triffids in the front yard.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #320 on: 02 October, 2021, 01:03:17 pm »
When we rejigged the Grand Bedchamber of Larrington Towers into a split-level creation we installed a new “ceiling” attached to the whatever-you-call-those-sloping-wooden-beams-that-support-the-roof, molished from Celotex.  The vast majority of it faces more or less west, which means that in the summer it's fighting a losing battle with the black slate roof :-\  It's probably begging to have solar panels installed on it, but that would involve disagreeable Stuffs like spending money and laying waste the triffids in the front yard.

How about an Archimedes-style lens, to slay the triffids (also sqrls) from a distance using solar power?

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #321 on: 02 October, 2021, 04:09:27 pm »
Thermostat meant heating fired this morning for a short time.
His Nibs was too cold when he came down for breakfast and put heating on for MOAR WARMTH but has now reverted setting to 'Auto'.

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #322 on: 02 October, 2021, 06:35:07 pm »
I've been in the loft and checked the header tank. It's the first time I've been up there for a while and it's significantly easier since I've lost weight. There was no water in the tank so I bunged 3 or 4 litres in and turned the heating on. The radiators are warming up and only one (so far) had any air in it. After tea I will check everything again.

I don't think we will keep it on for very long, but it seems like a good idea to test it on a "borderline" sort of day like today.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #323 on: 02 October, 2021, 06:47:33 pm »
When we rejigged the Grand Bedchamber of Larrington Towers into a split-level creation we installed a new “ceiling” attached to the whatever-you-call-those-sloping-wooden-beams-that-support-the-roof, molished from Celotex.  The vast majority of it faces more or less west, which means that in the summer it's fighting a losing battle with the black slate roof :-\  It's probably begging to have solar panels installed on it, but that would involve disagreeable Stuffs like spending money and laying waste the triffids in the front yard.

How about an Archimedes-style lens, to slay the triffids (also sqrls) from a distance using solar power?

I'm not sure, but I think the Hillyfield Primary Academy might take a dim view of the installation of such a device on their roof ;D  Also, we've only got one sqrl around here so they ent a problem.  Now if it could be used on pigeons, or — better — the terrible git who keeps feeding them…

Down below 20 C in the Estate Office for the first time since Bog knows when.  I may have to start wearing long trousers in the next few weeks.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Heating on?
« Reply #324 on: 02 October, 2021, 06:54:25 pm »
Talking of terrible gits who keep feeding things, a friend told me the other day that his landlady's daughter goes out every night to feed the foxes.  ::-)
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.