Post by: Blodwyn Pig on 01 April, 2021, 07:51:43 pm
a) because I've ridden on my own too long, and am intolerant
b) because these individuals haven't ridden in a group for a long time, and have forgotten
c) a+b
d) they just don't care.
If I said I was one of the youngest, you might get where I'm coming from. Made car drivers raise their hands in despair, and made i cringe.
Any one else been out with a group and had a shock?
Post by: guidon on 01 April, 2021, 08:35:04 pm
Post by: freeflow on 02 April, 2021, 09:42:56 am
Post by: Paul H on 02 April, 2021, 10:32:07 am
My understanding is that we are limited to groups if six rather than solo or pairs.Depends who the "we" is.
In England, informal groups are limited to six, club rides, that meet the criteria, can run rides for groups up to fifteen.
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20200512-about-bc-news-British-Cycling-Updated-Coronavirus-Guidance-0
Post by: Hot Flatus on 02 April, 2021, 10:34:54 am
Post by: L CC on 02 April, 2021, 10:50:04 am
Awful group riding has become a feature of almost every event I've done since about 2012. Can I blame the Olympic effect? There's an assumption that because you (one/I) can ride a bike you can ride in a group. No one thinks they have anything to learn, yet the advantage of being a champion wheel sucker is much greater than that of riding with tri-bars. I guess you can't order those skills off the internet and so people don't bother with them.
Post by: Hot Flatus on 02 April, 2021, 11:01:12 am
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 02 April, 2021, 11:04:44 am
I am self-assured enough to tell people to ride straight and don't jam on the brakes unexpectedly as required (and generally self-aware enough to accept it from others and apologise) but some folk aren't that direct and quite a few think that being told to ride better is a direct assault upon their manhood (term deliberately chosen).
Post by: L CC on 02 April, 2021, 11:08:34 am
Thank goodness I have faith in my tandem pilots. ;D
Post by: De Sisti on 02 April, 2021, 11:48:18 am
A few years ago, whilst leading the 16mph group to Farm Park Cafe, one bloke sprinted for the cafe with head down. He came past a rider and straight into my right side, sending me to the ground. He, on the other hand, stayed upright. I sustained a bruised side, hip and torn shorts. Guess what? He didn't even apologise.
,, a few think that being told to ride better is a direct assault upon their manhood (term deliberately chosen).
That 16 mph group (now expanded into two, sometimes three) has blokes who'll turn up, obviously riding fit, but no appreciation of group etiquette. For various reasons I eventually
moved down a group (to the 14s, now called the Social Group). The riders in this group are generally like myself with years of riding experience, or new to cycling and are eager to learn.
I've been asked to lead this group and even devise my own routes (rather than relying on the
ones on the club spreadsheet). I will do my best to uphold good road skills in the group.
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 02 April, 2021, 11:55:06 am
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 02 April, 2021, 11:56:53 am
It sounds like it's not just group riding etiquette he was lacking, but basic decency.A few years ago, whilst leading the 16mph group to Farm Park Cafe, one bloke sprinted for the cafe with head down. He came past a rider and straight into my right side, sending me to the ground. He, on the other hand, stayed upright. I sustained a bruised side, hip and torn shorts. Guess what? He didn't even apologise.
,, a few think that being told to ride better is a direct assault upon their manhood (term deliberately chosen).
Post by: Kim on 02 April, 2021, 12:27:09 pm
I'm crap at group riding but it's nothing to do with lockdown. It's not so much etiquette (though of course there's the perennial "who goes in front when singling out" debate) but I just don't trust my reactions enough to ride in close formation. Or perhaps I should say I know they're not fast enough to allow it.
Pretty much this, especially when I'm riding a recumbent around solo uprights, where the problem is compounded by different dynamics that you can't expect the other riders to appreciate.
I wonder how much of this problem is down to people who enjoy, and even become quite good at, cycling but are put off by traditional cycling clubs? I'm far too slow for a "16mph group", or even a "14mph group" (assuming standard 1% average rolling hills), so there don't seem to be many opportunities for learning group riding etiquette, beyond the common-sense hold your line, point out hazards and only pass on the right stuff of social rides.
What close-formation riding skills I have developed have been from things like hill climbing at wow-factor-1, trying to stay within audio range of barakta and indeed silly bike racing. That's mostly a case of anticipation and trying to be predictable, rather than any formal etiquette, though.
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 02 April, 2021, 12:44:36 pm
the common-sense hold your line, point out hazards and only pass on the right stuff of social rides.I think it's only common sense once you've experienced it a bit. And, again, there's always a certain room for disagreement on what should and shouldn't be called. Example: Descending the north side of Alfred's Tower in Wiltshire with a friend. This is a steep, narrow, very badly surfaced lane. I was just in front and calling out "Hole! Hole! Stick! Hole! Stone! Hole! Hole! Hole!" while trying to avoid said hazards and indicate which side they were without swerving in front of him. When we got to the bottom, he said "You didn't call that drain" to which I replied "Because it went the whole width of the road and there was no way to avoid it." There probably isn't any point calling a hazard you can't avoid. But in fact he has a point; as second, your view is slightly limited and knowing what is there, even if you can't avoid it, helps you prepare.
But the one that annoys me is when you're riding on a main road or in town and someone insists on calling out every approaching car.
Post by: Kim on 02 April, 2021, 12:52:42 pm
There probably isn't any point calling a hazard you can't avoid. But in fact he has a point; as second, your view is slightly limited and knowing what is there, even if you can't avoid it, helps you prepare.
Every stoker knows this, and the stoker is always right.
Quote
But the one that annoys me is when you're riding on a main road or in town and someone insists on calling out every approaching car.
I recall a Cyclebirminghm ride a few years ago that featured one of those. We were hacking our way through the badlands of Solihull and he was yelling about every approaching car with life-or-death urgency. Yes, we know. We're already singled-out. We're riding through I-can't-believe-it's-not-Birmingham. Of course there's a CAR!
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 02 April, 2021, 01:02:19 pm
Incessant car callers sometimes respond appropriately to a sarcastic “Tell me something I don’t know!” Otherwise, I just ride somewhere quieter.
Post by: Kim on 02 April, 2021, 01:07:38 pm
Once the density of defects gets too great, I just call ‘crap all over’ and leave the other rider to sort out the details since I will have got too occupied doing just that.
There's a point[1] where becomes easier to point out the patches of good tarmac.
[1] Somewhere around level 8 of Potholeman 3000
Post by: Lightning Phil on 02 April, 2021, 01:14:23 pm
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 02 April, 2021, 01:21:05 pm
Once the density of defects gets too great, I just call ‘crap all over’ and leave the other rider to sort out the details since I will have got too occupied doing just that.Both sensible.
Incessant car callers sometimes respond appropriately to a sarcastic “Tell me something I don’t know!” Otherwise, I just ride somewhere quieter.
Post by: Hot Flatus on 02 April, 2021, 01:38:50 pm
The last time this happened was in a large group on a main road, approaching a right turn. I was somewhere near the front. We were signalling well ahead of the turn, and I noticed people moving over the white line. An impatient driver appeared behind and started overtaking the group at speed (est 50mph), by which time one person had moved right over without checking behind. I screamed "watch out" and he shifted over to the left but the car was inches away and would have hit him full on. It was nearest miss I have ever seen.
After the incident I said to the few who had moved without looking "You really should look before moving right". They accepted it, but as I said I don't want to be that guy so solution is to not ride with them.
Post by: L CC on 02 April, 2021, 02:57:14 pm
I wonder how much of this problem is down to people who enjoy, and even become quite good at, cycling but are put off by traditional cycling clubs? I'm far too slow for a "16mph group", or even a "14mph group" (assuming standard 1% average rolling hills), so there don't seem to be many opportunities for learning group riding etiquette, beyond the common-sense hold your line, point out hazards and only pass on the right stuff of social rides.16mph and 14mph are MUCH MUCH easier in a group than alone. 30% less effort easier (https://cyclingtips.com/2017/10/much-benefit-really-get-drafting/). It is worth learning group riding skills to take advantage of this.
Common sense is not as common as you'd think from its name.
Post by: TimC on 02 April, 2021, 03:18:52 pm
I suspect this weekend will see some very dodgy group rides. I'm staying on Zwift.
Post by: Hot Flatus on 02 April, 2021, 03:25:57 pm
Post by: TimC on 02 April, 2021, 03:34:50 pm
Post by: Hot Flatus on 02 April, 2021, 03:40:13 pm
I haven't ridden with them for ages, so I might be being presumptuous about riding in the fast group. :facepalm:
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 02 April, 2021, 03:40:48 pm
That's true even if you're riding as a looser group, as opposed to an in-formation chaingang. Perhaps not 30% but certainly an appreciable amount.I wonder how much of this problem is down to people who enjoy, and even become quite good at, cycling but are put off by traditional cycling clubs? I'm far too slow for a "16mph group", or even a "14mph group" (assuming standard 1% average rolling hills), so there don't seem to be many opportunities for learning group riding etiquette, beyond the common-sense hold your line, point out hazards and only pass on the right stuff of social rides.16mph and 14mph are MUCH MUCH easier in a group than alone. 30% less effort easier (https://cyclingtips.com/2017/10/much-benefit-really-get-drafting/). It is worth learning group riding skills to take advantage of this.
Common sense is not as common as you'd think from its name.
Post by: citoyen on 02 April, 2021, 03:42:02 pm
That aside, the groups on club rides were mostly pretty good - largely because we had some old boys who enforced discipline. And they were also good at teaching newbies. I think one of them must have had a word with FKW boy because he abruptly stopped turning up.
The club seems to have fragmented a bit lately though - even pre-pandemic. For the Sunday ride, we would all meet up in one big bunch and set off together before the different groups split off (on my very first ride with the club, I made the mistake of being near the front when the fast group split off and got swept along with them... managed to hold on for a couple of miles but then blew up spectacularly). In the last few years (pre-pandemic), it seems to be lots of different small groups meeting up at different times, and most of the focus is on the racing team, time trials and Go Ride. Don't know what is going to happen now that group riding is allowed again.
There's another local club that I used to ride with years ago until it kind of fizzled out, but then it seemed to have a bit of a revival and a big influx of new members. They're more of a sociable group than pretend racers. I'm tempted to go back to them, except their group rides are now on Saturdays so clash with parkrun. No idea what the riding standard is like but the ones I used to ride with were pretty good - a couple of them had been racers to a pretty high standard back in the 60s/70s (one raced at national level for the RAF team).
Post by: citoyen on 02 April, 2021, 03:45:08 pm
16mph and 14mph are MUCH MUCH easier in a group than alone.
Absolutely.
Group riding is probably also the best way to get faster - when I started riding regularly with the club, the 16mph group was a bit beyond my comfort zone, but riding with them regularly meant I was soon a lot more comfortable at that pace.
Post by: Ribena75 on 02 April, 2021, 05:24:19 pm
But the one that annoys me is when you're riding on a main road or in town and someone insists on calling out every approaching car.
I sometimes go with a group that are like this. Constant hand signals for parked cars, lots of shouting. "Car back!"
Guys... we're in Bromley.
I've been cycling by myself though since last lockdown, and tbh I find it much less stressful.
Post by: Hot Flatus on 02 April, 2021, 05:28:40 pm
Post by: Kim on 02 April, 2021, 05:39:03 pm
I wonder how much of this problem is down to people who enjoy, and even become quite good at, cycling but are put off by traditional cycling clubs? I'm far too slow for a "16mph group", or even a "14mph group" (assuming standard 1% average rolling hills), so there don't seem to be many opportunities for learning group riding etiquette, beyond the common-sense hold your line, point out hazards and only pass on the right stuff of social rides.16mph and 14mph are MUCH MUCH easier in a group than alone. 30% less effort easier (https://cyclingtips.com/2017/10/much-benefit-really-get-drafting/). It is worth learning group riding skills to take advantage of this.
Having wheel-sucked (and occasionally gravitationally slingshotted) my way to the middle of the BHPC's fast group, I'm acutely aware of this. But I still don't really have a good idea for how the average speed of a group compares to riding solo in real-world conditions.
Doing it amongst broadly similar machines on the track is one thing, on the road where Potholeman fears to tread is quite another.
Quote
Common sense is not as common as you'd think from its name.
So true.
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 02 April, 2021, 06:05:22 pm
Out here in the wolds it's often the unbelievable road surfaces that are the danger. Gloucestershire must have the shittest roads in the UK. At one point for several years even driving down the A46 in a car involved slaloming round holes that would break your car instantly.They've held the title for four decades at least. Back in the 1980s they once chip-and-sealed the M5. ::-)
Post by: giropaul on 02 April, 2021, 06:13:11 pm
- the number of “ new” for want of a better term, is a high percentage of many rides. Going back, there would just be one or two newer riders, who would learn from the rest. At the same time, the newer people may have been reading the magazines, watching GCN etc. It’s also the case that many aren’t the fresh faced youngsters we were , and may take les well to advice.
- the March of data! Many are obsessed with data, average speed, segments etc etc. That doesn’t mix well in a group. I recall a club ride a while back, cold and damp, and most of the more experienced were on winter bikes with guards.
One chap, close to me, on a new looking £8,000 odd bike with full carbon everything, was clearly agitated. I asked if he was ok - no he wasn’t apparently, the ride was 2mph slower than last time and his Strava was going to look bad.
Post by: Lightning Phil on 02 April, 2021, 06:19:23 pm
Post by: Blodwyn Pig on 02 April, 2021, 06:25:35 pm
I may be sad, but I have a MANTRA......''words are precious, use them wisely'
Post by: Lightning Phil on 02 April, 2021, 06:29:25 pm
Post by: MattH on 02 April, 2021, 06:54:16 pm
I'm quite worried about BC racing starting up again; there's going to be a lot of riders who are Zwift fit and powerful, but lost the peloton riding skills. I suspect the medics may see a bit of action on the first few events.
Post by: slugbait on 02 April, 2021, 07:51:38 pm
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 02 April, 2021, 07:54:14 pm
When I’ve ridden brevets in the Netherlands, my pace has generally been somewhat higher than my UK average.
Post by: slugbait on 02 April, 2021, 08:13:19 pm
Post by: Hot Flatus on 02 April, 2021, 08:15:06 pm
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 02 April, 2021, 08:22:48 pm
I'm quite worried about BC racing starting up again; there's going to be a lot of riders who are Zwift fit and powerful, but lost the peloton riding skills. I suspect the medics may see a bit of action on the first few events.
There was an article last year but guess was talking about yesr before in Ireland saying the amount of crashes in local racing has gone mad as you say everyone is basically doing weights on their legs so putting out huge power with no road sense. A friend of mine who I ride with is worried as the people from work who have all bought peleton or similar bikes want to go for a ride and they're all in theory much much faster then him but no idea if they can actually transfer to the road where you have to pay attention
Group wise I ride with around 6 people normally of mixed abilities but largely and this probably applies when I'm with bigger groups roll in pairs or threea not as a big mass
I did once go out with a bunch who a more regular cycling buddy was going with. Advertised as around 30 to 35 miles at around 16mph. Ended up being over 40 at nearer 20 but managed to hang on, i didn't contribute anything on the front as was hanging on the back the whole time. I got a puncture about 5 miles from home and happy to let them go. The guy i sometimes rode with was happy to wait with me as was pretty knackered as well.
Post by: TimC on 02 April, 2021, 08:32:38 pm
I have to ask (as someone living in the Netherlands). Isn't both 14mph and 16mph a rather relaxed pace? My local club has a 28, 32 and 36 km/h groups (roughly 17, 20 and 22mph). The 28 and 32 groups are the social ones and no one is left behind. The 36 group doesn't wait (Flat tyre or too fast? Tough luck).
We're not overburdened with hills where I live (south Suffolk), though what there are are tend to be vicious little things. My current club has a 32kph group, whose ranks I've never bothered, and a 26kph/16mph group who only pay lip service to the intended speed. It's a no-drop group, so they do wait every so often when they realise there's only two riders left, but it does get a bit over-enthusiastic at times. But we don't have any racers. My previous club had similar groups to yours, and the 36-38 group waits for no-one. Indeed, if possible they'll get the speeds up as fast as they can! There was a time when I'd occasionally play with them, but not now. I can still average 28 or so on my own so I could probably hang with the evens crowd on the flat, but I am most definitely gravitationally challenged on anything remotely uphill. Solo works best!
Post by: peterc on 02 April, 2021, 11:44:13 pm
Thanks, I did not consider hills.
Thats okay, I don't think we fully understand headwinds, I mean I know they exist, but not how they could be so bad that you might need aerobars on an omafiets.
Post by: TimC on 03 April, 2021, 02:44:37 pm
Post by: Lightning Phil on 03 April, 2021, 03:40:28 pm
I have to ask (as someone living in the Netherlands). Isn't both 14mph and 16mph a rather relaxed pace? My local club has a 28, 32 and 36 km/h groups (roughly 17, 20 and 22mph). The 28 and 32 groups are the social ones and no one is left behind. The 36 group doesn't wait (Flat tyre or too fast? Tough luck).
Blimey you must get round Dutch audax 200s in around 6 hours.
Post by: slugbait on 03 April, 2021, 04:28:17 pm
I have to ask (as someone living in the Netherlands). Isn't both 14mph and 16mph a rather relaxed pace? My local club has a 28, 32 and 36 km/h groups (roughly 17, 20 and 22mph). The 28 and 32 groups are the social ones and no one is left behind. The 36 group doesn't wait (Flat tyre or too fast? Tough luck).
Blimey you must get round Dutch audax 200s in around 6 hours.
Alas, over 200km I don't go much faster 28km/h. Add a coffee stop and it takes me roughly 8 hours.
Post by: De Sisti on 03 April, 2021, 04:48:49 pm
I have to ask (as someone living in the Netherlands). Isn't both 14mph and 16mph a rather relaxed pace?So what!?
Post by: rogerzilla on 03 April, 2021, 08:40:50 pm
I have to ask (as someone living in the Netherlands). Isn't both 14mph and 16mph a rather relaxed pace? My local club has a 28, 32 and 36 km/h groups (roughly 17, 20 and 22mph). The 28 and 32 groups are the social ones and no one is left behind. The 36 group doesn't wait (Flat tyre or too fast? Tough luck).Is that a cruising speed or an average? We'd normally do 18-19mph on the flat, but the average, including junctions and hills, usually comes out at about 15.5mph.
Post by: Wowbagger on 03 April, 2021, 08:48:47 pm
I have to ask (as someone living in the Netherlands). Isn't both 14mph and 16mph a rather relaxed pace?So what!?
In answer to the question quoted, no, 14mph and 16mph are not relaxed paces. 10mph is fast these days.
Post by: Socks on 03 April, 2021, 08:50:39 pm
I have to ask (as someone living in the Netherlands). Isn't both 14mph and 16mph a rather relaxed pace?So what!?
In answer to the question quoted, no, 14mph and 16mph are not relaxed paces. 10mph is fast these days.
As someone in my family said, it's all relative
Post by: Zed43 on 03 April, 2021, 09:33:44 pm
In answer to the question quoted, no, 14mph and 16mph are not relaxed paces. 10mph is fast these days.I feel better now
(23 kph avg over flat 210km, with some unpaved)
Post by: slugbait on 04 April, 2021, 08:42:00 am
I have to ask (as someone living in the Netherlands). Isn't both 14mph and 16mph a rather relaxed pace?So what!?
It doesn't matter, just needed context. I fully understand that what is fast pace depends on the terrain and the rider.
I have to ask (as someone living in the Netherlands). Isn't both 14mph and 16mph a rather relaxed pace? My local club has a 28, 32 and 36 km/h groups (roughly 17, 20 and 22mph). The 28 and 32 groups are the social ones and no one is left behind. The 36 group doesn't wait (Flat tyre or too fast? Tough luck).Is that a cruising speed or an average? We'd normally do 18-19mph on the flat, but the average, including junctions and hills, usually comes out at about 15.5mph.
Average, but we don't have many junctions here, or even tight corners (current position 53.23N, 6.52E). And the nearest natural hill worth mentioning is 130km away.
Post by: giropaul on 04 April, 2021, 09:03:33 am
On the old, relaxed, rides I would often be in the company of international, successful, riders. They were content to be social, and reserve training efforts for more appropriate times. Often they might do an hour or two before the club run, or return from the cafe in a smaller group, but whilst with the club run they’d concentrate on keeping it together and at a sensible pace.
Post by: Hot Flatus on 04 April, 2021, 09:22:56 am
Post by: DuncanM on 04 April, 2021, 10:07:06 am
I've not actually ridden in a group on the road since early 2019 I think (though I rode some CX races in late 2019), down to injuries and ride clashes with family stuff mainly.
Post by: fd3 on 04 April, 2021, 02:10:39 pm
Post by: Hot Flatus on 04 April, 2021, 02:11:49 pm
Post by: grams on 04 April, 2021, 02:25:52 pm
The only way to find out which group you belong in is to start at the bottom and work up, or to only ride with people you know.
Post by: Hot Flatus on 04 April, 2021, 02:40:10 pm
Post by: Geriatricdolan on 04 April, 2021, 04:26:02 pm
In miles, 10 years ago, club rides were 12-13 for the slow group, 14-16 for the medium and 17-19 for the fast. Now it's more like 14-16 for the slow, 17-19 for the medium and 20+ for the fast.
I have seen club rides averaging 23-24 mph on Strava... and not even short rides
Post by: Hot Flatus on 04 April, 2021, 04:28:06 pm
Post by: Geriatricdolan on 04 April, 2021, 04:36:11 pm
Don't forget that Strava is moving average which is way faster than actual average. None of the waiting around on hilltops affects the averages.
We were measuring moving averages even before. It's not that the good old Cateye computers didn't have the auto-pause function. Nothing has changed in that respect, just people are a lot fitter, because they train like maniacs on Zwift all year round, whereas 10 years ago, some had primitive dumb trainers in the garage to use when it rained
Post by: Lightning Phil on 04 April, 2021, 05:19:55 pm
Laidback is also a bit tricky on a social ride, due to head level mismatch.
Which is really useful when you end up next to the boring engineer. What’s that, sorry can’t hear you, I’ll just move forward in the group.
As to speed, laid back shouldn’t be a problem unless you are on the limit of your fitness. If you’re in your comfort zone you’re unlikely to be the last one up the hill. Besides if CTC, you may be the first one up any hill, regardless of your bike type.
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 05 April, 2021, 09:23:40 am
Post by: giropaul on 05 April, 2021, 01:03:52 pm
That certainly isn't the case for the club I ride with occasionally. There are speed groups, 12-14mph, 15-18mph, and 18+mph. It is a 'no drop' policy so effectively it is the pace of the slowest rider, although hills are fair game for everyone (wait at the top). Equally, we have no internationally succesful rider, nor do most clubs, and you wouldn't expect a semi/professional/ 1sr cat rider to use a town club ride as training (other than recovery)
That’s one of my points really. These days talented riders tend to move into sponsored teams, and have little to do with club life.
In the past, the presence of “ big hitters” kept things under control, but importantly inspired and advised. Club runs and club nights, we benefited from their advice and encouragement. On a club run, they always had the legs and gravitas to keep things steady.
Post by: Hot Flatus on 05 April, 2021, 01:47:09 pm
From my perspective, everyone rolling along at a steady speed isn't that fun. It might be efficient but it's not fun, hence the odd blast and then wait for anyone who wasn't up for it on that day. (most are, it transpires) Nobody really shits their pants over it apart from that one guy I mentioned.
The club once employed a local coach to give advice on a group ride. Proper old school. Runs a local amateur team. Highly opinionated. He rode 3 miles with mid group and then rode up to us. We dropped him on the big hill and then waited, at the top for him, at which point he arrived and berated us in between trying not to die.
So we dropped him again and had a great ride.
Post by: Geriatricdolan on 05 April, 2021, 02:28:39 pm
Sure, not disputing what you are saying, just underlining that with a 'no drop' policy we are at the speed of the slowest rider.
From my perspective, everyone rolling along at a steady speed isn't that fun. It might be efficient but it's not fun, hence the odd blast and then wait for anyone who wasn't up for it on that day. (most are, it transpires) Nobody really shits their pants over it apart from that one guy I mentioned.
The club once employed a local coach to give advice on a group ride. Proper old school. Runs a local amateur team. Highly opinionated. He rode 3 miles with mid group and then rode up to us. We dropped him on the big hill and then waited, at the top for him, at which point he arrived and berated us in between trying not to die.
So we dropped him again and had a great ride.
I have a club membership... I went out with them once, as you say the very steady nature of the ride made it quite regimented... that level of "do" and "don't" doesn't appeal to me.
In the past clubs were smaller and rides were less structured, often deciding where to go on the day, depending on wind and weather and who was there on the day. Nowadays there is a calendar of fixed rides which is posted in January and runs until December and they are always the same routes, which are "risk assessed" so to speak.
Bit too much, really
Post by: grams on 05 April, 2021, 02:35:48 pm
(This is the big difference between "no drop" and "pace of the slowest rider". If the slowest rider is always fighting to chase back on and/or - hopefully - being waited for then you're doing the former, not the latter)
Post by: Hot Flatus on 06 April, 2021, 07:56:41 am
The small groups of faster riders is where the real naughty fun is, and people will launch an attack, often with a huge grin, and then get dragged back by a paceline with counter-attack. We all know each other very well and none of it is about ego. It's just pissing around having a blast. It all works quite well really.
Post by: mattc on 17 May, 2021, 06:22:41 pm
Also there are always a few shepherds (me included) who keep an eye out and drop back and pace people back or stop the group. But, there are riders who are utterly oblivious to anyone else and smash on, never looking back at all. One of the things I really like about the club is that there isn't an annoying patriarchal figure barking orders, and there are enough experienced and strong riders to silently determine pace and do the little jobs to keep things cohesive without making a show of it.Apart from the utterly oblivious whom you mention - and I think every club has a good share of those - you are very lucky to find such a group. I don't mean they're unique, just well above average. (I've been out with a LOT of groups over the years, trust me ... ). I hope you nurture them, and they flower for many a season.
And well done you for being a shepherd - didn't think you had it in you.
(I have sometimes been forced into the "barking orders" thing by groups that are almost all oblivious, with none of the "silent-but-helpful" types. It is less fun than it sounds. )
Post by: mattc on 17 May, 2021, 06:24:55 pm
I don't want to be the guy who barks instructions or gives advice...Aha, I see you've been through this!
<snippage>
but as I said I don't want to be that guy so solution is to not ride with them.
Post by: TimC on 17 May, 2021, 10:20:54 pm
The hiatus of the last 15 months has worn down their resistance, and it seems I am about to get my way. While that does mean that I might have to get off my arse on a Sunday morning, I welcome the possibility that it might mean a ride that actually abides by its description, and is a pleasant and sociable occasion. I live in hope.
*Or so I'm told.