Touring brakes?

[Valiant]

This thread has been done a billion times before but here goes.

I need stopping power on the roadbike when loaded. When it's just me it's just about ok, but with two full 55litre paniers it's almost non existant.

Current brakes are Tektro R320s dual calipers with Clarkes Pads (I had them spare so just used them). A problem worth noting is when the brakes are full apllied the blocks don't sit flat against the rim with new pads. One the front it's like \|\ and one the back it's like /|/ . The LBS was at a loss and seeing as I'd just spent loadsa money I didn't wanna buy new brakes and pads there and then. Any ideas what might cause that?

Sam

[David Martin]

Would this do?

[delthebike]

Are you sure the panniers aren't 55 litres total? Seems a lot to be each pannier!

Your description of pad position looks like toe in. Do they fall flat on the rims when the wheel is moving under load, ridden as normal?

Edit: I've just realised what your \|\ means for the brake positions. Have the calipers beens installed as LL on the front and RR on the rear, or vice versa? (just a guess)

[Valiant]

Actually I was wrong, each panier is 40litres.

They don't totally fall flat under braking and there's no way to adjust.

[hellymedic]

Putting more weight at the front of the bike will improve braking performance and reduce the tendency to pull 'wheelies' when climbing with much luggage...

[MSeries]

I fitted some new Tiagra brakes to my mates bike today and I was surprised to see the supplied blocks had toe in/out adjustment provided. Riding laden always requires an adjustment in ones style. Get used to braking sooner, accelerating more slowly and cornering differently. All that weight on the back end will make you front end "interesting" and descending alpine passes decidedly "hairy".  That's if those zondas last that long.

[Valiant]

If it was a dedicated then that's fine but it's a compact geometry roadbike first sadly. I don't think the forks could handle it lol

Would these koolstop pads here: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?Cat=cycle&ProdID=5300005952&N=Kool%20Stop%20Dura%20Ace/Ultegra/105%20Pair%20Of%20Cartridge%20Inserts
Fit my Clark holders here:





And here's a bad photo of the brake alignment issue

[Cunobelin]

If I am wrong - just ignore me!

(Firstly I am asuming the cable is adjusted so that th e pads are close to the rim and thatth centrebolt is adjusted to allow free movement, but no rotation)

Some of these brakes have a set of washers, usually some convex, some concave.

If you loosen the nut that holds the caliper in place, this will allow you to align the pads (within reason).

Get a small piece of card and [place between the rim and back of the brake to "toe-in. THen pull the brakes on tight.

Ensure the brakes align horizontally and vertically with the rim, and are not touching the tyres..

Now tighten the nuts and release. You should find the brakes aligned.

This will optimise the performance.

[Valiant]

I fitted some new Tiagra brakes to my mates bike today and I was surprised to see the supplied blocks had toe in/out adjustment provided. Riding laden always requires an adjustment in ones style. Get used to braking sooner, accelerating more slowly and cornering differently. All that weight on the back end will make you front end "interesting" and descending alpine passes decidedly "hairy".  That's if those zondas last that long.

I was braking sooner but it lacks the ability to say err actually stop you dead at a few miles an hour without putting your foot down.

The wheels are bombproof though. I've covered about 14,000 miles with no signs of wear on the rims! They're not Zonda's though, they be Gipiemme Tecno T30s and I've been kerb hopping with Beatrix on the back without problems so they are extremely strong.

[Valiant]

If I am wrong - just ignore me!

(Firstly I am asuming the cable is adjusted so that th e pads are close to the rim and thatth centrebolt is adjusted to allow free movement, but no rotation)

Some of these brakes have a set of washers, usually some convex, some concave.

If you loosen the nut that holds the caliper in place, this will allow you to align the pads (within reason).

Get a small piece of card and [place between the rim and back of the brake to "toe-in. THen pull the brakes on tight.

Ensure the brakes align horizontally and vertically with the rim, and are not touching the tyres..

Now tighten the nuts and release. You should find the brakes aligned.

This will optimise the performance.

There is no adjust washers or anyfink The only adjustment I can do go high/lower on the rim and in and out as per the calipers.

[Polar Bear]

Two questions arise in my mind from those pictures:

1:  Is there a balancing screw in the middle part of the DP's?  The picture doesn't make it clear for me to see and I was wondering if they were 'fine'tuned when fitted?

2:  There appears to be a washer thingy and a gap at the edge of it on the ftop pic at th back of the claiper.  Is this stopping it sitting square to the fork crown?

[Sergeant Pluck]

I'd say get a set of Ultegra blocks:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?Cat=cycle&ProdID=4000000898&n=Shimano%20Ultegra%20Pair%20Of%20Brake%20Blocks

I find it easy enough with these to align them for toe-in etc using the washers they come with. Then take out the Shimano pads and fit Kool Stop salmons - I can't see a complete Koolstop holder / pad combo apart from the Campy type, hence the Ultegra blocks.

But Polar Bear might be right for the front. 

Sam, we are not going to be going far fully laden anyway. Only from home to Paddington in fact!

[Valiant]

There is a small grub screw on top of the calipers but all that does is bring in/out the arms in relation to each other.

Anyways, I've just broken the brake bolt that connects the calipers to the fork. Hmm. Time for a new caliper.

[Biggsy]

Would these koolstop pads here: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?Cat=cycle&ProdID=5300005952&N=Kool%20Stop%20Dura%20Ace/Ultegra/105%20Pair%20Of%20Cartridge%20Inserts
Fit my Clark holders

Yes.  I've not used Clark holders, but I can tell from the shape that they take Shimano-style inserts - which is what those Kool Stops are.  It will be worth trying the Salmon ones.

Kool stop holders might provide more adjustment though.

Anyway, this is the way I align brake holders or blocks that do have some adjustment capability:

(Personally I don't like any toe-in, but if you want it, insert a bit of card or wrap an elastic band around the block before doing the following)

Tighten the brake cable so much that the pads touch and grip the rim.  Loosen the holder bolts so the holders are free to pivot.  Tighten the cable some more, as much as possible.  Tighten the bolts.  Job done.

What else?  Every now and then, clean the rims and rough up the pads.

[Valiant]

I can't decide on what brake calipers. Are the 105s any good? Is the Ultegra worth the £12 price increase?

[Sergeant Pluck]

I have Ultegra on the Van Nicholas but to be honest I think the recent incarnations of the 105 are probably just as effective in terms of braking power. Double pivot, similar geometry.

£22 at Wiggle - the Ultegra SL is only £7 more for what it's worth.

Will you need a long-drop caliper though?

[Valiant]

Nope don't need a deep drop.

105 is £18.39 though and the Ultegra SL 6600 is £30.98

Hmmm why the price difference?

[Valiant]

Ah I'm looking at the OEM prices which is great

[Valiant]

I think I'm gonna go with the 105s, at £18 I can at least try them and see what I think. They are bound to be better than the Tektro's I have, no?

[MSeries]

Yes

[Sergeant Pluck]

Nope don't need a deep drop.

I knew "long-drop" didn't sound right, must have been thinking of something else 

[Valiant]

I managed to find some Ambrosio brakes that I have on the fixie for £30 for the pair I ordered those instead

[Jacomus]

I have the 105s after upgrading from tiagra and they rock.

[border-rider]

 I have the deep-drop Ultegras on my MC and they're astonishingly good.  Much better than the Tektros

[mrcharly-YHT]

Clarks pads are abysmal.

Fit Kool Stops, red