New tandem frame options

[321up]

We are looking for a new tandem frame to build up a second machine for Audax and light touring next year.  The second tandem is to minimise the risk of mechanical problems jeopardising our plans  .  Our priority is lightweight and stiff (we do a lot of hill climbing out of the saddle).  Until we can afford a good quality custom frame I'm looking to buy a low cost frame and replace it periodically.

Does anyone have any knowledge or opinion on the Dolan Tandem Aluminium Frameset...

http://www.dolan-bikes.com/tandem/framesets.html

Any suggestions please?

Thanks.

[zigzag]

this looks light and stiff, only would need to upgrade brakes and gears for riding in hills

[321up]

this looks light and stiff, only would need to upgrade brakes and gears for riding in hills

Nice idea, but I don't see any cantilever bosses, disc brake mounts or mudguard/carrier bosses.  My guess is that it would be unlikely to fit 28c tyres with full length mudguards.

One of the main advantages of buying new is to have a guarantee.

[The French Tandem]

this looks light and stiff, only would need to upgrade brakes and gears for riding in hills

note: wheels and pedals are NOT included - the rear drop-out is standard width so you have plenty of choice of wheels; I use Mavic Cosmic Elite on my other tandems for training.  I can post this but it won't be cheap - est. £60 for postage and packing (UK).  Can also send internationally by arrangement.

Unless you are an ultra lightweight tandem team and you are planning to do only short rides on smooth surfaces, I would stay away from any tandem that uses wheels designed for a solo bicycle. Solo wheels are simply not designed to bear the weight of 2 people!

[321up]

this looks light and stiff, only would need to upgrade brakes and gears for riding in hills

note: wheels and pedals are NOT included - the rear drop-out is standard width so you have plenty of choice of wheels; I use Mavic Cosmic Elite on my other tandems for training.  I can post this but it won't be cheap - est. £60 for postage and packing (UK).  Can also send internationally by arrangement.

Unless you are an ultra lightweight tandem team and you are planning to do only short rides on smooth surfaces, I would stay away from any tandem that uses wheels designed for a solo bicycle. Solo wheels are simply not designed to bear the weight of 2 people!

Thanks for spotting that, will certianly limit the options for tandem hubs.  However some tandem hubs can be modified for 135mm, this is what we did for our old Dawes Super Galaxy.  I think we will be ok with 135mm, I suspect that we get more axle flex with 145mm on our Orbit (FH08 Shimano hub on both).  In theory 145mm should allow for a smaller wheel dish but in reality I never had problems with spokes the Dawes and we have had endless problems with spokes coming loose or breaking on the Orbit rear wheels (both Orbit wheels have been rebuilt multiple times  ).

[The French Tandem]

The qualification/experience of your wheel builder is probably the most important factor in this case.

[jsabine]

Does anyone have any knowledge or opinion on the Dolan Tandem Aluminium Frameset...

http://www.dolan-bikes.com/tandem/framesets.html

No knowledge myself, but I believe that bodach OTP pilots a bright red Dolan, generally to be found with McNasty on the back.

[Joe.B]

An orbit frame springs to mind, I think they do a couple of aluminum frames with drop bar geometry. Also the Tandem Club for sale board often has older but quite sporty tandems on it.

[321up]

Does anyone have any knowledge or opinion on the Dolan Tandem Aluminium Frameset...

http://www.dolan-bikes.com/tandem/framesets.html

I've got one, which was bought to replace my rather overbuilt Univega - to my mind, for £499 it represents great value. Stiff and pretty light. It has canti bosses (which I've fitted with mini-Vs) takes a 135mm rear hub (but I've squeezed a 130mm road wheel in there for racing) and has mudguard bosses. Saying all that we've not ridden it this year - Mrs O is studying away and I've lent it to a Newbury couple for the summer. Must get it back sometime!

Tandem_0 by Oranj, on Flickr

 (That Matrix upthread is an out-and-out racing machine.)

We have seen the frame and we like it, but the problem for us is that the steerer tube on the forks is too short and would result in the handlebars being to low for me.  They can't supply it with a longer steerer tube due to safety reasons.  I'm investigating if I can find a suitable more robust tandem fork from another supplier...

[321up]

Does anyone have any knowledge or opinion on the Dolan Tandem Aluminium Frameset...

http://www.dolan-bikes.com/tandem/framesets.html

I've got one, which was bought to replace my rather overbuilt Univega - to my mind, for £499 it represents great value. Stiff and pretty light. It has canti bosses (which I've fitted with mini-Vs) takes a 135mm rear hub (but I've squeezed a 130mm road wheel in there for racing) and has mudguard bosses. Saying all that we've not ridden it this year - Mrs O is studying away and I've lent it to a Newbury couple for the summer. Must get it back sometime!

Tandem_0 by Oranj, on Flickr

 (That Matrix upthread is an out-and-out racing machine.)

We have seen the frame and we like it, but the problem for us is that the steerer tube on the forks is too short and would result in the handlebars being to low for me.  They can't supply it with a longer steerer tube due to safety reasons.  I'm investigating if I can find a suitable more robust tandem fork from another supplier...

...Dolan will not supply the frame without the forks 

[LittleWheelsandBig]

How difficult is it to get a high rise stem? SJS sell stems with 30-35 degree rise in a variety of lengths. I use a 150mm 35 degree stem on the front of HK's Audax tandem.

[321up]

How difficult is it to get a high rise stem? SJS sell stems with 30-35 degree rise in a variety of lengths. I use a 150mm 35 degree stem on the front of Judith's Audax tandem.

If my understanding is correct then a high rise stem will put the same stress on the steerer tube as leaving the steerer tube long - I think that it's the overall length / leverage that's the issue.  (assuming a constant steerer tube thickness above the head tube).  I suspect that a high rise stem may actually put more stress on the steerer tube due to the leverage at the point where it clamps.  I think it is unusual for a supplier to impose a limit on the steerer tube length (other than carbon fibre steerer tubes).  If the supplier say's there is a potential safety issue with using their product in a particular way then I'm not going to risk it.

[321up]

How difficult is it to get a high rise stem? SJS sell stems with 30-35 degree rise in a variety of lengths. I use a 150mm 35 degree stem on the front of Judith's Audax tandem.

If my understanding is correct then a high rise stem will put the same stress on the steerer tube as leaving the steerer tube long - I think that it's the overall length / leverage that's the issue.  (assuming a constant steerer tube thickness above the head tube).  I suspect that a high rise stem may actually put more stress on the steerer tube due to the leverage at the point where it clamps.  I think it is unusual for a supplier to impose a limit on the steerer tube length (other than carbon fibre steerer tubes).  If the supplier say's there is a potential safety issue with using their product in a particular way then I'm not going to risk it.

Just to clarify I have not directly asked Dolan about using a high rise stem.  It is possible that what they have told me about the maximum steerer tube length is over cautious or based on their misunderstanding (of my question or the manufacturers information).  There are still some points that I am trying to clarify.  Unless I get satisfactory answers then they will loose the sale.

[321up]

I take your point - it is a bit one-size-fits-all and if the headtube is too short then you'd have quite a bit of steerer showing. Because I like a flatter back/stretched out position I cut mine down. They are cyclo-cross forks though and quite  a bit more substantial than I've found on my racing frames. As LWAB says, you could probably get a high-rise MTB stem to fit, or flip a road stem over.

This is how they build them up (on their website)...


... the steerer length looks similar to the photo of yours.  If you have cut your steerer down then perhaps they have reduced the length since you got yours or perhaps I am getting inconsistent information from them.  Did you build yours up yourself?

[aidan.f]

In really would  not  worry  about the minimal extra leverage from raising handlebars, how  heavy  are  you, what  is your  riding  style?
Answer (light, and  light)
These are the most significant sources  of  stress - so Dolan err on worst  case caution, Just  out  of  interest is  the  steering  tube  steel or  ally
If steel even less reason to  worry.

[321up]

In really would  not  worry  about the minimal extra leverage from raising handlebars, how  heavy  are  you, what  is your  riding  style?
Answer (light, and  light)
These are the most significant sources  of  stress - so Dolan err on worst  case caution, Just  out  of  interest is  the  steering  tube  steel or  ally
If steel even less reason to  worry.

We are an average weight and travel fairly light (medium size saddlebag, small bar bag and occasionally something strapped to the rear rack) so the static loading should be fairly low.  The dynamic loading could be more significant due to hard braking decending steep hills and uneven roads.

http://www.dolan-bikes.com/tandem/framesets/dolan-tandem-aluminium-frameset.html
"Fork: Alpina Carbon Alloy Multicross Fork"

steerer on the forks is 265mm (We would not advise using anything any longer on this frame)

They seem to be advising to not use a fork with a longer steerer with this frame which I find surprising.  That implies that the strength of the frame limits the steerer length, not just the strength of the fork.    I wonder if there is some factor that I have not considered?  I'm not worried about the strength of the frame, any fractures that occur around the head tube should be easy to spot long before failure occurs, but a fracture in the steerer tube, or failure between the steerer tube and fork crown are likely to be undetectable without removing the forks for regular inspection.  If I was to use their fork I would want to replace it periodically, but I've no idea how frequently that should be.

[notlobgp14]

Hi

We ride a JD 631 frame.  I don't think we do as many miles as you two but we do get out and about quite a lot, riding LeJog last year and Atlantic to Med through the Pyrenees this year.

Why have you got doubts about your current Orbit?  I read that you've had wheel problems, what were these?  Could you talk to JD and get them to understand what you need in the light of the failures you've had?  I'm fairly sure that they would like you on their side due to the type of riding you do and the mileage you achieve, it's a good advertisement of there product.

[321up]

How difficult is it to get a high rise stem? SJS sell stems with 30-35 degree rise in a variety of lengths. I use a 150mm 35 degree stem on the front of HK's Audax tandem.

Thanks to another thread I have discovered an extender that I might have more confidence in...

http://bbbcycling.com/bike-parts/headset-parts/BHP-21


Assuming the quill inserts beyond the top headset bearing it should reinforce the steerer tube.

We are planning to go to Shropshire soon to look at other tandem frame options.

[321up]

Having done some test riding of various models we have decided our next build will have a Landescape 'Direct Lateral' frame.  This gives us a chance to try out a custom geometry without spending too much money.

http://www.thetandemshop.com/landescape/randonne-nouveu.html


(but not yellow)

[The French Tandem]

Are you planning to ride on these wheels? We tried a pair of these in 2012, and were a bit disappointed by their overall behaviour.  On the plus side: they were certainly faster than our "normal" wheels, by at least 1 km/h at our average pace.  On the minus side: stoker's impression was that they gave a much harsher ride, not suitable for anything longer than 2 hours on the saddle. We put an end to the test when all the front spokes quickly loosened up in the middle of a 200km ride to the point that the tandem was unrideable. This was the only time in 5 years of tandeming where we had to ask a friend to drive us home.

[321up]

Are you planning to ride on these wheels? We tried a pair of these in 2012, and were a bit disappointed by their overall behaviour.  On the plus side: they were certainly faster than our "normal" wheels, by at least 1 km/h at our average pace.  On the minus side: stoker's impression was that they gave a much harsher ride, not suitable for anything longer than 2 hours on the saddle. We put an end to the test when all the front spokes quickly loosened up in the middle of a 200km ride to the point that the tandem was unrideable. This was the only time in 5 years of tandeming where we had to ask a friend to drive us home.

Definitely not those wheels for us.  Thanks for sharing your experience.  It will be a custom build and we are in the process of choosing the components now.