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Police bring undercover cyclist operation to Arbroath
toontra:
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/angus-mearns/2196418/police-bring-undercover-cyclist-operation-to-abroath/
Seems like a good idea. I wonder if it will have any long-term impact?
nuttycyclist:
I agree that it looks a good idea, and seen it pushed in the media in different areas, but I have a number of concerns.
Firstly it is the right thing, and it should educate drivers as to how much space to give, but seeing the negativity from drivers towards cyclists already will this just increase the “them and us” culture (bearing in mind we know the majority of cyclists have a driving licence, and we’re all human, I never understand the “them and us” I read so frequently on bookfarce and local newspaper websites). Mrs Nutty showed me a rant the other day re a group of cyclists being out, and the mobile phone footage from the following driver moaning that there was no way past.
I was out at the weekend and Mrs Nutty was waiting patiently to overtake a cyclist. Obviously this was a good thing. However my main concern was that the young lad was riding so closely to the kerb that he was hitting every drain cover and pothole, plus risked striking the kerb with his pedal, and was also inadvertently inviting normal drivers to push past too closely because of his road positioning.
However… riding that closely to the kerb is the behaviour encouraged by painted cycle lanes. One item of advice that CyclingUK gave on BBC breakfast the other week as part of a pothole item was that cyclists should ride an arm’s length out from the kerb for safety. In other words ride outside the cycle lane and on the main carriageway. This made me laugh as their newletters have recently been telling me that they are opposing the removal of a cycle lane and taking a council to court. (I am no longer a paid up member so can’t read the whole newsletter as it’s an advertising thing to get me to sign back up).
My next question is whether the space required for a safe overtake is still required when a painted cycle lane exists. In my mind it does, but in lane painting sense it doesn’t. Driving on a dual carriageway I don’t pull out wider to overtake, I stay in my lane; I also have to make sure it is safe to pull out from the inside lane to another one.
However when I’m cycling in a cycle lane, for a driver approaching from behind they are in their lane and I’m in mine. I can understand why they wouldn’t consider waiting for a safe opportunity to pull out and pass. I experienced this badly during the Southend Cycle Town changes (if you remember that long discussion, which eventually made me give up campaigning). A previously safe road became a nightmare as buses travelling at 30mph passed me with just a couple of inches clearance while I was in a cycle lane that at times was down to about 40cm width (from memory). If there was a blockage of that lane (such as a bus in the bus stop) then it was my responsibility to try to merge out of the cycle lane and into the faster flowing traffic.
So back to the article in point, education of drivers is I think a good thing (actually it’s just a reminder of what they should have learned when undertaking the driving test). Education of cyclists as to how to safely share the roads should also assist in our mutual happiness. But I can’t see how this can co-exist with the continual building of cycling infrastructure which seems to me to undermine efforts such as this.
Hot Flatus:
The white line is a solid protective barrier that will keep you safe from all vehicles whizzing past at 70mph, 20" from your bars
Kim:
--- Quote from: nuttycyclist on 07 May, 2021, 11:50:18 am ---However… riding that closely to the kerb is the behaviour encouraged by painted cycle lanes. One item of advice that CyclingUK gave on BBC breakfast the other week as part of a pothole item was that cyclists should ride an arm’s length out from the kerb for safety. In other words ride outside the cycle lane and on the main carriageway. This made me laugh as their newletters have recently been telling me that they are opposing the removal of a cycle lane and taking a council to court. (I am no longer a paid up member so can’t read the whole newsletter as it’s an advertising thing to get me to sign back up).
My next question is whether the space required for a safe overtake is still required when a painted cycle lane exists. In my mind it does, but in lane painting sense it doesn’t. Driving on a dual carriageway I don’t pull out wider to overtake, I stay in my lane; I also have to make sure it is safe to pull out from the inside lane to another one.
However when I’m cycling in a cycle lane, for a driver approaching from behind they are in their lane and I’m in mine. I can understand why they wouldn’t consider waiting for a safe opportunity to pull out and pass. I experienced this badly during the Southend Cycle Town changes (if you remember that long discussion, which eventually made me give up campaigning). A previously safe road became a nightmare as buses travelling at 30mph passed me with just a couple of inches clearance while I was in a cycle lane that at times was down to about 40cm width (from memory). If there was a blockage of that lane (such as a bus in the bus stop) then it was my responsibility to try to merge out of the cycle lane and into the faster flowing traffic.
--- End quote ---
This is all an argument for cycle lanes that are sufficiently wide that a cyclist of non-zero width can ride a sensible distance from the gutter while having enough space from traffic proceeding normally in the adjacent lane. And preferably with some physical measures (bollards, kerbs, etc) to keep the motorists out of them.
A few do exist, and CyclingUK campaigning for them in no way endorses the typical white line denoting the chutney zone cycle lane which do little more than encourage close passes.
ian:
Once you've made it about cyclists, you have lost.
Of course, they're not going to cycle in the middle of a busy road.
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