[HAMR] Current thoughts on the record attempt?

[Karla]

Current thoughts on the record attempt? Well, both Steve and Kurt have proved themselves worthy contenders. I don't think I am in a position to give advice to either of them, despite being able to ride a bike. What is needed is as far from my experience and understanding as racing up the Tourmalet with the pro peleton and as useful as telling Sagan he needs to turn his pedals faster to win (even if it is factually correct). I'm constantly impressed by the the quality of advice and experience that, if only Steve would adopt, he would be doing better.

I do remember that a month or two before the start of the record attempt, Steve came on here, announced his attempt and said something to the effect of "So, aero equipment, what's all that about then?"  It's fine if he didn't know that sort of stuff, but asking about it on an internet forum shortly before the start isn't the way to go about things!  He also originally planned to do the record with a much more low-budget modus operandi than he's ended up doing now that other people have got on board to be his team: he'd been intending to do it basically off the back of his own savings, and had made some comment like "I've found a pair of tribars I like that only cost £30" as evidence of his cost-cutting.  In my (hopefully not particularly controversial) opinion, starting a year's record attempt by saving a couple of hundred quid on a few sets of tribars isn't getting things in correct proportion.  So while he obviously has a lot of relevant experience in many elements of the record attempt, he isn't beyond critique. 

[mrcharly-YHT]

Kurt had similar issues. Ended up posting requests for better tyres, could people send him inner tubes. Asking what was the best rack for a car, because he'd had bikes drop off his several times. Saddle sores and suggested saddles.

[Wowbagger]

Indeed. Early on, his preparation looked quite shoddy compared to Steve's. There was one day when he had about 4 broken bikes and not one working one IIRC.

[Frank9755]

Kurt has learned as he has gone along, fixed / upgraded his equipment, fine-tuned his approach and adapted to changes in circumstances.

[Jack_P]

That's the problem.  There aren't enough hours in the day for the tortoise approach unfortunately, and that's been clear from early on.

To me its become apparent that this is a "racers" record. Tommy and now Kurt are Elite level athletes who can ride fast enough to get the required recovery to do it again and again, what ever the location.

Steves performance is mind blowing but his long steady approach appears to causing fatigue problems. Recently one of his Strava posts stated "Finally got some payback for all the headwinds I have fought" and he put in an admirable 233 miles, but it was at a moving average of 15.3 mph and an elapsed time of 20 hours. Just no comparison to Kurts long rides from A-B

Is Steve now effectively 2300 miles behind Kurt (Steve 1300 below and Kurt +1000 above the Godwin line) 10 days riding ...crikey

Steve is a hero and has beyond doubt set a years distance record in the UK that anyone will find hard to beat in modern times.

[Legs]

Kurt has learned as he has gone along, fixed / upgraded his equipment, fine-tuned his approach and adapted to changes in circumstances.

whereas...

[Wowbagger]

Kurt has learned as he has gone along, fixed / upgraded his equipment, fine-tuned his approach and adapted to changes in circumstances.

whereas...

As I said a few pages back, Steve's options are much more limited that Kurt's because his average speed is about 4mph slower. That's 48 miles over a 12 hour day.

[LEE]

Kurt has learned as he has gone along, fixed / upgraded his equipment, fine-tuned his approach and adapted to changes in circumstances.

whereas...

As I said a few pages back, Steve's options are much more limited that Kurt's because his average speed is about 4mph slower. That's 48 miles over a 12 hour day.

I have to say that, for me, the record should be done as one continuous bike ride.  You start the day from where you finished the previous evening.
Once you start driving between starting locations you open this up to Team SKY using a luxurious tour bus to drive you repeatedly South West overnight, or to wherever the prevailing winds are blowing from.  Taken to its logical extreme you can start flying your rider to the flattest roads with the strongest tailwinds.

At some point it becomes similar to swimming the English Channel in a heated swimming pool.

I foresee various categories of the record emerging, just like Everest Ascents (Everest with oxygen, without oxygen, not carrying a piano, carrying a piano..etc).

It's a shame the record was ratified, and had its profile raised, before Steve could just get on with beating the original record, Godwin Style.

[Mr Larrington]

In chess, we call them kibitzers*.
<snip>

*terms introduced by Bobby Fischer

<wildly OT>

I think kibitzer predates Bobby Fischer.  I first encountered "kibitz" in Moonraker, where it was used in relation to working out what cards an opponent had and Wikipedia tells me Moonraker was published in 1955, when Bobby Fischer was 12.  Of course he may well have been responsible for bringing the term to chess.

</wildly OT>

One of the P-51 fighters in Len Deighton's Goodbye Mickey Mouse was called "The Kibitzer".

[Karla]

'Godwin Style' is where you're sponsored by a major bike manufacturer and have a car slipstraming pacing following and supporting you for half the year, right?

[toontra]

As soon as you start splitting the record into categories, where do you stop?  I can think of at least 6 clear distinctions (recumbent use, car transfers, on-road support, different start-stop points, drafting other riders, multiple countries, etc), presumably each with their own age-related sub-categories, and even then you can be sure someone would ask for another to be added. It's not long before the "record" becomes meaningless as you could have 30 simultaneous "holders".

There is now, at last, a record with (fairly) clearly defined rules, thanks mainly to Steve.  It's up to potential challengers whether they are willing to sign up to those rules and, if so, how they can maximise them to their advantage.

[hillbilly]

It is sobering to see Steve slipping ever further behind the target pace set by Tommy (and from around 5 January, Kurt). 

I don't expect any but a handful of people know if it's because his strategy is wrong, he has made a calamitous decision (diet change?), has simply been unfortunate, or is not up to the task.

All I feel I can do is hope Steve gets stronger, sooner.  And offer occasional words of support.  I'm humble enough to realise that nothing somebody like me can suggest will make a significant difference to the outcome for Steve, particularly in the short term where any material change might be overly disruptive and so compound the current issues (whatever they are). 

Steve has perhaps always had his work cut out because of the self-sufficient approach he chose.  What is possibly becoming clearer is that he lacks a consistent, keen edge of speed endurance that marks out Kurt (and apparently Bruce) and which would give more flexibility when the chips are fully down.  Ranking Steve's longest distance days against Kurt's is quite informative, particularly if average speed/time on the bike is also included.

If I'm honest, I'm currently pessimistic about Steve's chances and I don't think there is much he can do to fully reverse this situation.  That Steve is doing it his own way is to his credit, as it means that any success or lack of it will reflect what he thought was best.  Hopefully my pessimism will turn out to simply be ignorance of Steve's strength and he is successful in reaching whatever goal he has set.

[mattc]

I have to say that, for me, the record should be done as one continuous bike ride.  You start the day from where you finished the previous evening.
Once you start driving between starting locations you open this up to Team SKY using a luxurious tour bus to drive you repeatedly South West overnight, or to wherever the prevailing winds are blowing from.  Taken to its logical extreme you can start flying your rider to the flattest roads with the strongest tailwinds.

At some point it becomes similar to swimming the English Channel in a heated swimming pool.

I foresee various categories of the record emerging, just like Everest Ascents (Everest with oxygen, without oxygen, not carrying a piano, carrying a piano..etc).

I'm slowly coming round to the same thinking.

Forgive me for repeating this excellent analogy:
At some point it becomes similar to swimming the English Channel in a heated swimming pool.

 

[Kim]

That's just the nature of making and breaking records though.  If you find rules and categories distasteful, just go for a bike ride^[1].


_{[1] Uphill both ways.  In the snow.  On fixed.}

[TheRedEyeJedi]

Kurt is doing huge miles, quickly while expanding as little energy as possible - by riding a flat, fast circuit in a bunch on a lightweight bike.   He is actually doing better with this approach than when he was using tail winds and motorized transfers.   Yes he has a decent climate - but Kurt is going to comfortably beat the record with a pretty low budget, self funded approach with a team of 1 person assisting....so I think all this talk of the record becoming unobtainable and elite is a bit silly.   Im pretty sure a Team Sky could provide a better bunch to ride with and faster kit - but I don't think spending money on logistics and transfers is the key to breaking the record.

I don't think this record does need a huge budget or a special climate to be broken - but I am pretty convinced you wont beat Kurt by regularly riding 100+ mile into the wind, on a heavy bike with touring kit on.   I am astonished and in awe of the miles Steve has done with his current approach over the space of the last year, but also convinced Kurt has the best approach - the results of each method are there for everyone to see.   There is no logistical or financial reason why Steve could not follow Kurts approach from the last couple of months.  It may not sit well with those used to Audaxing/touring, but this isn't a British Audax record - Steve already has that.

[bryn]

Like everyone else here, I've been following this amazing attempt since 00:01 on January 1st., and Steve's tracker and mileages are the first things I look at when I wake up, and the last things I look at when I turn out the light.

Back when one-legged riding around the bowl was underway Steve was talking about still being able to break the record by the end of 2015.  Then that slowly drifted out of sight and the new 12 month period was announced.  The recent combination of illness, diet change, and stormy weather seems to make the final achievable total uncertain.  Steve has had a few very bad days recently.  Today he has been riding for 10 hours, with 188 km on the Ivan-Google clock.  I know I'm a glass-half-empty person, but it doesn't look good.  Hope I'm wrong.

BTW "kibitz" (with various spellings) is Yiddish meaning "unwanted advice".  We could rename this "The Kibitz Thread" 

[Bus Shelter Bertie]

As I see it, this record is a single statistic. Ways and means to me are irrelevant and rules are unnecessary. The record is "Greatest number of miles cycled in a year". We know the definition of cycling - no motors, no external power source, some sort of cyclic motion. Environmental forces,eg. gravity, slipstreaming are only forces employed to increase cycling efficiency.

So for example, get Steve to a long straight warm road in Australia (preferably downhill). Employ a full time truck driver to provide the full time slipstream. Count the miles. Easy.

For me, all this talk of athletic ability and fair play and categories are a distraction from the one simple statistic and who holds it. The record holder and future holders will be for those that understand this, and all will have earned the record fairly. Don't tell me that Tommy Godwin was concerned with rules, he just wanted a bigger number than anyone else.

Go Kurt. Go Steve.

[simonp]

Now stopped on the way into Peterborough for the last hour.

Maybe time for dinner.

[Ivo]

I've done a bit of 24 hour speedskating events, they usually take place on a 400m track. I quit doing them because they are utterly mind numbing and give an enormous stress to your body due to the onesided movement. I can perfectly understand why Steve doesn't want to take the approach Kurt has at this moment, riding around on the same stretch of route all the time. Your mind is more important as your body during all sorts of long distance events.

[Arry-R]

HK and I supported Steve through multiple 24hr TTs but it took years of arguments to get him to take advantage of our support (and finally admit that it made a big difference). Some of us do know what we are talking about and Steve, like most folk, can be wrong, even with regards to riding megamiles.

Has your kind offer to help shortly been accepted yet? ?
I hope he is not completely shunning offers such as yours.  We all want him to increase his miles not continue the downward spiral of some 1300 miles already.

[Bobby]

"Current thoughts on the record attempt?"

It remains a ridiculously hard thing for anybody to do no matter what their approach or beliefs & I remain in owe of Kurt and Steve with what the have achieved.  Like others I check Jo's graphs first thing every morning & tap into many of the threads last thing at night.

It does all seem a bit gloomy for Steve at the moment.  I have to believe the diet change was out of necessity & whilst it's clearly had a big impact, Steve surely didn't have a choice. 

In general I hope Steve is not disheartened or feeling the pressure of expectation/opinion.  I cannot comprehend the mental strength required to do this every day.

Go Steve, Go Kurt

[mattc]

I am astonished and in awe of the miles Steve has done with his current approach over the space of the last year, but also convinced Kurt has the best approach - the results of each method are there for everyone to see.   There is no logistical or financial reason why Steve could not follow Kurts approach from the last couple of months.

What, apart from
the lack of an RV and a 365x24 support team?

(sorry about that - but the font-size seems proportionate to the number of posters ignoring this simple fact

[Von Broad]

I think as time goes on, watching both riders either side of the pond, with their differing approaches and fortunes, I find myself having less thoughts and concerns about both Abraham and Searvogel and have become much more curious about Godwin. Terrible winters, slower cycling technology, less accurate weather forecasting and still he managed to do all those miles in 1939. His achievement seems all the more unfathomably incredible to me after watching the current attempts - almost to the point where one could easily question if he even did them at all. Build like an Ox must surely be a euphemism to describe Tommy Godwin.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Tommy could cruise up and down the A1, if he wanted, and lorries travelled at a suitable drafting pace back then. Quite apart from having dedicated support for his highest mileage months.

[Exit Stage Left]

Tommy could cruise up and down the A1, if he wanted, and lorries travelled at a suitable drafting pace back then. Quite apart from having dedicated support for his highest mileage months.

It's possible to see what the A1 looked like in August 1939, this film's overcranked, there are longer versions available, at the correct speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D0tR9mAV8A