Poll

A group/social/club ride is split to make numbers more manageable, and you know you are one of the slower riders. Would you rather:

The group is split on speed/fitness
57 (91.9%)
The group is split randomly into mixed sub-groups.
2 (3.2%)
The group is split by EU/non-EU passport.
3 (4.8%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Voting closed: 20 December, 2016, 04:10:38 pm

Author Topic: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."  (Read 11720 times)

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."
« Reply #50 on: 20 December, 2016, 04:09:16 pm »
I am part of the "Whitchurch Social Cycling" group. We hope the name captures the spirit and intent of the group.

We aren't a club, we don't have a team jersey and there is no committee (other than the informal and spontaneous one that forms briefly to decide where to go on the ride).

You turn up in Whitchurch at 8pm on a Thursday and/or 8am on a Sunday.  We ride to a pub/cafe for beer/coffee/cake and chat about stuff along the way.

There's a local formal (fast) road-club with committee & team jersey to ride with if that's your bag and an LBS Sunday ride that's slightly quicker than ours (but slower than the road-club.

I've ridden with all three, and it's nice to have the options, but my favourite is the slow, chatty WSC group.

I'm also lucky to have access to the fabulous Abbots Ann Cycle shop which, since it opened in town this year, has become a true cycling hub for the area (including a lovely Cafe and Wattbike studio inside). So much more than your usual pile of bikes
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

Dibdib

  • Fat'n'slow
Re: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."
« Reply #51 on: 20 December, 2016, 06:37:46 pm »
So, am I leaving this club? No, I think I'll consider it as a great social experiment. Can a disparate group of cyclists self-organise without any meaningful leadership or structure? There is no committee, no rules and no membership fees. But we do have a jersey.

Sounds like my lot as well, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Basil

  • Um....err......oh bugger!
  • Help me!
Re: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."
« Reply #52 on: 20 December, 2016, 07:17:30 pm »
I'm in a club of one.  I've been a member all my life.  I like the member, mostly.  The pace is always just right.  Stops, changes of route or destination are always agreed without any awkwardness.  My favourite riding, really.
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."
« Reply #53 on: 20 December, 2016, 07:22:49 pm »
I'm in a club of one.  I've been a member all my life.  I like the member, mostly.  The pace is always just right.  Stops, changes of route or destination are always agreed without any awkwardness.  My favourite riding, really.
But are you spurred on by keeping up with the faster members? And are there any trophies to strive for?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."
« Reply #54 on: 20 December, 2016, 07:40:20 pm »
I suppose Basil will be motivated by the Club's Points Award, Mile Eater Award and no doubt the many other trophies available.
Alternatively, the club might be non-competitive.

Basil

  • Um....err......oh bugger!
  • Help me!
Re: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."
« Reply #55 on: 20 December, 2016, 07:47:47 pm »
Actually, the club can be surprisingly competitive on occasion.   But trophies?  Who would want an award for doing what you want to be doing?
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."
« Reply #56 on: 20 December, 2016, 07:52:11 pm »
Right, I've gathered more than enough data, so I'm going to dive into the sideshow that is the "Are traditional clubs just crap?" thread. Almost everybody here has said they are, and I simply don't believe that represents the real world.

I think there is a place for the small, disorganised "group"/"club". I'm sure some work brilliantly. But they have their limits. The following are all MASSIVE generalisations, so please read them as such:

- They don't scale up. I'm sure there are academic studies from psychology (or god forbid, Management Science) that show what goes wrong when you just grow a group of anarchistic self-starting "jolly nice" individualists. (see also: cat herding)
- It's hard to organise anything beyond the "Every Thu/Sun 8am" schedule. Eventually you get into discussions about how many groups we need for the 40 riders turning up on nice days.
- ... and that's when you end up "casually meeting over a pint to chat it over". In other words; A Commitee Meeting  ;D
- a big element of grassroots cycling is the events; be they audax, time-trial, road-race, other mashups on a theme. You can't just run these things by sending a few emails between 3 people.
- look at the Fridays. They offer something very different (which is good and interesting :) ) but there is a LOT of organisation gone into making their rides look so slick to the newbie rider.
- a larger organised club tends to be more inclusive. They'll have a structure that says we WILL look after new members, or slow members, or aging members. Or find an outlet for the frustrated fast. etc.


As for the whole "arsehole wanker coach" business ... surely this is an example of how extremes are rarely the best way? You can learn from a human being - people think they know everything cos they have read the internet, and/or they can copy everyone else and not crash.
I doubt anyone here knows everything about group riding (and that's just one small part of cycling).
But meanwhile, you can teach people stuff without being a cunt. Ironically, one of our posters here is paid to do just that, out of our taxes!

If a club is great apart from someone giving unwelcome advice, do something about it - don't run away then whine about it on the internet. Show some interpersonal skills!
(that may mean talking to other members. Having a quiet word. Taking a step back and accepting that the guy means well, and it's no great cost to just shut up and tolerate him, like everyone else does! Or some better solution .. I've never been in that situation. You're all smart cookies, come up with something.)
Every group has an arsehole - you just may not notice him/her as quickly if they are an ignorant introvert.



Right, that's probably pissed off 50 of my voters ...
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Basil

  • Um....err......oh bugger!
  • Help me!
Re: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."
« Reply #57 on: 20 December, 2016, 07:54:54 pm »
You're over thinking it.  Just get on your bike for a ride ffs.
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."
« Reply #58 on: 20 December, 2016, 08:00:43 pm »
You're over thinking it.  Just get on your bike for a ride ffs.
Done that.

Then it got dark, so I came in to play with you lot.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Basil

  • Um....err......oh bugger!
  • Help me!
Re: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."
« Reply #59 on: 20 December, 2016, 08:04:53 pm »
 ;D

And sorry for being a bit grumpy.  I do understand what it is you are trying to understand.
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."
« Reply #60 on: 20 December, 2016, 08:22:29 pm »
- look at the Fridays. They offer something very different (which is good and interesting :) ) but there is a LOT of organisation gone into making their rides look so slick to the newbie rider.

This is an interesting one, if you compare a Fridays ride to one of the many off-brand but ostensibly similar night rides organised on this august forum.

The main practical difference is of course scale.  When you have 5-20 riders the logistics of halfway stops is much simpler than when you have the best part of 100.

But beyond that, I'd suggest that the main reason that the same sort of thing can be achieved with little more than someone posting a start time and a GPX track to an internet forum is that we all have a pretty reasonable idea of what to expect and how to contribute to make that happen, largely due to gratuitous plagiarism of lessons learned by The Fridays and while audaxing.  And an inadvertent filtering of newbies that avoids the completely unprepared from ever hearing about them in the first place.


Quote
- a larger organised club tends to be more inclusive. They'll have a structure that says we WILL look after new members, or slow members, or aging members. Or find an outlet for the frustrated fast. etc.

I'm not sure about that, I suspect it's more a case of the long-established ones being those that have somehow got it right.  (A large club isn't going to stay that way for very long if it can't attract newbies and keep the ageing members interested.)

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."
« Reply #61 on: 20 December, 2016, 08:29:37 pm »
i've never ridden with a "traditional" club, but all the rides that i've done with the "modern" groups have been good experience. you'll come across an arsehole every now and then, but as long as the group is mature enough to ignore them they only make themselves look silly. as for the speeds - it's a good idea to know your average you can maintain over the distance, so that you join an appropriate group. (if anyone told me that i look like i should ride with the slow group*, they'd see two fingers and be actively ignored for the rest of the day 8) )

* i've ridden with groups of various abilities, but it was my choice and decision

Re: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."
« Reply #62 on: 21 December, 2016, 10:15:47 am »
I learnt group riding skills from the old boys on the Portsmouth CTC fast group runs. There was very little tolerance for defaulters. At the time it seemed a bit formulaic, however subsequent experience shows it works.  As a group you look after each other and acting predictably and sharing information helps keep everyone safe.

Currently I belong to Sotonia and ride with them occasionally, mostly I'm out on my own or with 1 or 2 others.

When I'm on a club ride I prefer to ride with people who have also learnt the basic skills to ride in a group together. When with people who through ignorance or carelessness endanger a group I will have a quiet word.  If that doesn't work I stay as far away as possible as I have no desire to pay the tarmac a surprise visit.

On audaxes informal groups form. I make a judgement on whether to remain with such a group or not dependant on skill level, weather condition or wit!
Reine de la Fauche


contango

  • NB have not grown beard since photo was taken
  • The Fat And The Furious
Re: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."
« Reply #63 on: 22 December, 2016, 05:51:41 am »
It's fairly normal for groups to advertise their average ride speed, and to keep to it.

If you're dropping off the back then you have a couple of choices:

1) Join the slower group
2) Ride on your own

Our group is too small to split so we have a "nobody gets left behind" policy and it's a very social pace.
It can get a bit strung out sometimes but we regroup at junctions/hills.

I know the Pompey Wednesday Night ride has a fast group and a slower group.

There's a case for several mixed ability groups if numbers grow too large of course.  I'm a car driver as well as a cyclist and it can be painful when trying to pass a big Club ride.

I don't see any "Shame". I had to drop out of the local "Wheelers" Chain-gang rides as I just couldn't hang on to the back.  Some people are faster than me and I don't want to hold them up if they have a speed to stick to.

A group I used to ride with every once in a while split into three groups based on approximate speed, and the three groups did totally different rides. If you couldn't keep up with the group you were in you couldn't just wait until the slower group caught up. They were pretty realistic about the distances and speeds of the rides - I rolled with the fastest of the groups thinking I'd rather be slightly pushed than underexercised, and didn't find myself either pushed beyond reasonable comfort or constantly feeling like the group was waiting for me. The first time I rolled with them I made sure my GPS was fully charged, so I wasn't left in the middle of nowhere if I did find myself unable to keep the pace.

I think it's good to keep groups reasonably small, or at least space out into smaller groups, simply to avoid becoming a huge rolling roadblock.
Always carry a small flask of whisky in case of snakebite. And, furthermore, always carry a small snake.

Re: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."
« Reply #64 on: 27 December, 2016, 12:54:44 pm »
This is an interesting discussion, and I think at least one element is the type or intent of the ride, rather than the speed or distance.

I've never done the "Sunday Morning Club Run" for training, so find it hard to comment exactly on it, but the comments from some people upthread, about their bad experiences, are at least one of the reasons why I've avoided that area.

The Fridays work well, as a Social club, and manage to get away with a relatively large inexperienced group by mostly riding at night when the roads are a lot quieter.  I've done other YACF based social rides (the old WARTYs for example) which were in a similar vein, but tended to be smaller and had a lot of rides with times and places chosen to minimise traffic (which in itself required some effort by the ride leader).

Overall, I think I enjoy social rides.  You can still do substantial distances, but don't have to ride like a speed demon.  Occasionally it can seem like it would be nice to be going a bit faster, but when you do have to stop and let people catch up, there's generally someone to talk to, or a view to look at. :)
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: "You look like you should ride with the Slow Group."
« Reply #65 on: 27 December, 2016, 03:51:20 pm »
One of the reasons I left my local cycling club, was that the saturday morning cafe runs ended up turning into Road Racing Performance Group Training Events, with all the focus on speed / watts / rpms / bpm / bites per scone / sips per cup. Anyone who was on the run dare not have a mechanical, or dare to be slow off the Performance Pace.

Hence I just cycle on my own, or with a few facebook   peeps ( one or two of which may also be on here) on a facebook cycling group.