COVID19 and Audax UK

[Redlight]

You won't save the world by stopping audax.  Any idea that is predicated on that is false and should be binned.

You won't. But while the social distancing and other requirements remain in force - even if they are being flouted by some - it would be grossly irresponsible for AUK to decide to ignore them.

[S2L]

You won't save the world by stopping audax.  Any idea that is predicated on that is false and should be binned.

I think you will find it is a matter of insurance and public perception more than anything else

[Hot Flatus]

All this hand wringing about social responsibility is a little off key.

I did quite a long ride yesterday (2 shops and hedges for toilets) which went through a few seaside resorts.   Let me tell you the general public does not GAF about social responsibility.

The disconnect is really quite stark.  You look online and a bunch of people are all posting from their bedrooms, wondering whether everyone on the planet should stay in their bedrooms for the next ten years to avoid one single person dying of c*****9.  Then you go outside and find that everyone else is living their life as normal.

You won't save the world by stopping audax.  Any idea that is predicated on that is false and should be binned.

Fallacy by Lemming argument.

[Karla]

You won't save the world by stopping audax.  Any idea that is predicated on that is false and should be binned.

You won't. But while the social distancing and other requirements remain in force - even if they are being flouted by some - it would be grossly irresponsible for AUK to decide to ignore them.

This isn't about flouting anything though.  This is about overcautious private citizens who get a kick out of complying far beyond the required level, and holding everyone else hostage to their evidence-free standards.  They're a destructive influence on society, and the socially responsible course of action is to get them used to having their silly opinions ignored.

You won't save the world by stopping audax.  Any idea that is predicated on that is false and should be binned.

I think you will find it is a matter of insurance and public perception more than anything else

ITYF you pulled both of those arguments out of your chamois.  Spuriously blaming lack of insurance is the last recourse of someone with no arguments left.

[Hot Flatus]

Your argument is that we should flout the ban on group sporting events because you have seen people breaking lockdown regulations.

Circular argument. Well done.

[Davef]

Your argument is that we should flout the ban on group sporting events because you have seen people breaking lockdown regulations.

Circular argument. Well done.

Perhaps Audax U.K. should change its tag line to the “long distance group cyclists association”


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[Ajax Bay]

In Ireland, Cycling Ireland have shared their approach, which they call rather neatly a 'road map'
"Cycling Ireland road map for road cycling: From May 18th to Autumn"
http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/when-will-group-rides-races-sportives-return-we-have-the-likely-dates/?fbclid=IwAR0qrQIeRDfB5I4ffJXRrEsUNTzuF36YtC9zwxrxy3jRiChQMKP1E-D4WQA

[FifeingEejit]

Worth noting the county level restriction at "Phase 5".

That would totally suck if it applied here and you lived in Clackmannanshire or Rutland

[Redlight]

In Ireland, Cycling Ireland have shared their approach, which they call rather neatly a 'road map'
"Cycling Ireland road map for road cycling: From May 18th to Autumn"
http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/when-will-group-rides-races-sportives-return-we-have-the-likely-dates/?fbclid=IwAR0qrQIeRDfB5I4ffJXRrEsUNTzuF36YtC9zwxrxy3jRiChQMKP1E-D4WQA

That's interesting. The big difference between here and there is that the national cycling body appears to be getting specific advice from government. I imagine that's unlikely to happen here but is one reason why the AUK board is monitoring the pronouncements from British Cycling, as that's the body most likely to be viewed as authoritative.

[JonBuoy]

Worth noting the county level restriction at "Phase 5".

That would totally suck if it applied here and you lived in Clackmannanshire or Rutland

Not sure about Clackmannanshire but Rutland is fine 

[grams]

That's interesting. The big difference between here and there is that the national cycling body appears to be getting specific advice from government.

Not quite. The Irish government have published a detailed five stage roadmap and the national cycling body are working from that.

The British government have only published an MS Paint scribble and are making up re-openings as they go along. I don't see how anyone can expect AUK to do anything but shrug.

[frankly frankie]

Some people can't resist a political snipe. This isn't about that, it's about how best to adapt to the new normal.

[Davef]

I notice that despite the 5km from home rule that applies in Ireland they are still organising outdoor, credited solo rides to get points to encourage beginning cyclists. This temporarily replaces their beginners group ride scheme.

https://www.axacommunitybikerides.com/search/rides/eyJyZXN1bHRfcGFnZSI6InNlYXJjaFwvcmlkZXMiLCJzZWFyY2g6Y291bnR5IjoidmlydHVhbCByaWRlcyJ9

I do realise Bike Ireland is the equivalent of British cycling and not audax.

Edit: I notice they are sponsored by AXA insurance. If it is the case that auks insurance is the stumbling block perhaps it is worth talking to AXA.

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[mattc]

Point of order:
BC's history/expertise is in racing. They have nothing to do with Audax. Even their GoRide schemes for kids are race-focused.(I've been to a session).

Which national cycling body last ran the National 400?

[giropaul]

Point of order:
BC's history/expertise is in racing. They have nothing to do with Audax. Even their GoRide schemes for kids are race-focused.(I've been to a session).

Which national cycling body last ran the National 400?

Some of the racing fraternity might contend that BC is Sportive focussed ( alongside elite racing). Funding depends on numbers, and sportives yield numbers.
Grass roots racing is struggling in this funding- driven environment.

[grams]

Some people can't resist a political snipe. This isn't about that, it's about how best to adapt to the new normal.

The normal in the two countries is completely different due to the amount of detail their respective governments have set out.

Audax Ireland can look directly towards detailed government papers that explain exactly what will be allowed in future and when. Audax UK is stuck following British Cycling's lead because the UK government hasn't published anything useful to go on.

[Bianchi Boy]

Some people can't resist a political snipe. This isn't about that, it's about how best to adapt to the new normal.

The normal in the two countries is completely different due to the amount of detail their respective governments have set out.

Audax Ireland can look directly towards detailed government papers that explain exactly what will be allowed in future and when. Audax UK is stuck following British Cycling's lead because the UK government hasn't published anything useful to go on.

The Irish and Scottish governments have produced documents with no basis. If the virus behaviour is as predicted and the rates of infection as as predicted then it may be reasonable to allow social contact in the following manner.
There are so many variables they are effectively meaningless.

BB

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[FifeingEejit]

Some people can't resist a political snipe. This isn't about that, it's about how best to adapt to the new normal.

The normal in the two countries is completely different due to the amount of detail their respective governments have set out.

Audax Ireland can look directly towards detailed government papers that explain exactly what will be allowed in future and when. Audax UK is stuck following British Cycling's lead because the UK government hasn't published anything useful to go on.

The Irish and Scottish governments have produced documents with no basis. If the virus behaviour is as predicted and the rates of infection as as predicted then it may be reasonable to allow social contact in the following manner.
There are so many variables they are effectively meaningless.

The Irish one has aspirational dates.
The Scottish one (and NI and Welsh ones) have guidance on the situation for implementation and a note saying "we may have to step backwards" along with plans of what to do at each stage with a note saying "these may not all come in at the same time, and we may need to fiddle with it"
England has a powerpoint slide...

It's really an exercise in trying to provide a clear enough guide, people are taking them as out and out time tables though hence the Yoons scream "WHYS THERE NO DATES?".

I'd suggest the devolved administrations have been overly specific in reaction to Westminsters shambolic rambling.
When I saw the RoI timetable the first thing I thought was "how the feck can you put dates on these?"

[Ajax Bay]

The Irish one has aspirational dates.
The Scottish one (and NI and Welsh ones) have guidance on the situation for implementation and a note saying "we may have to step backwards" along with plans of what to do at each stage with a note saying "these may not all come in at the same time, and we may need to fiddle with it"
England has a powerpoint slide...

It's really an exercise in trying to provide a clear enough guide, people are taking them as out and out time tables though hence the Yoons scream "WHYS THERE NO DATES?".

I'd suggest the devolved administrations have been overly specific in reaction to Westminsters shambolic rambling.
When I saw the RoI timetable the first thing I thought was "how the feck can you put dates on these?"

When I saw the Cycling Ireland (RoI) timetable the first thing I thought was "well done for having a plan" and noted that the dates were tentative and carefully/sensibly caveated. I also noted the longing envy of the fact that riding in 'the North' was unhindered by irrational (from a risk mitigation PoV) 'no more than 5km/20km from home' limitations.
A plan, any plan, is much better for all parties:
1) those formulating a 'road map' to resumption (the Audax UK Board);
2) the organisers of events (DIY Regional organisers, Permanent organisers and calendar event organisers); and
3) riders looking forward and aspiring to ride in an 'audax' construct.
Reasons (some with more merit than others) like:
  'we don't know enough',
  'lots of things are unclear and may change',
  'we need to see what other bodies decide' (whose activities involve two (mainly) human-powered wheels but have no interest in niche non-competitive, non-money making activities)

are why consideration needs to be analytic, yet nevertheless come to a resolved way ahead, with dates dependent on national progress (eg shops opening), shared with members.
A list of the additional COVID-19 related hazards to organisers, to riders, and/or to Audax UK's reputation would be a useful part of the decision framework. Perhaps we could crowd-generate a list, to allow the Board to feel comfort that their list already contains all the rational items.

[Cudzoziemiec]

2) is the board considering a return to poems before calendar events

When anybody knows
Or policy grows
To burn off the lard
With a brevet card
It is certain to be expressed in prose.

Poetry worthy of Dan Brown! 

[zigzag]

meanwhile some of my friends over in lithuania rode a 300 audax last saturday, i wish i could have been there. good times were had - no hint  of fear, stress or anxiety. terrain is quite flat, so the keen ones in the front group finished with 36kph(!) avg.

https://www.facebook.com/rndnlt/videos/269015547841979/?t=0

[frankly frankie]

The Scottish one (and NI and Welsh ones) have guidance on the situation for implementation and a note saying "we may have to step backwards" along with plans of what to do at each stage with a note saying "these may not all come in at the same time, and we may need to fiddle with it"

All well and good, but from an Audax UK point of view, an approach like that is hugely problematic.  Events have to be entered/paid in advance, then ridden.  Stepping backwards gets people involved in a whole lot of refund pain.  Fiddling round the edges ofa plan involves volunteer effort that simply may not be forthcoming.

[mattc]

The Scottish one (and NI and Welsh ones) have guidance on the situation for implementation and a note saying "we may have to step backwards" along with plans of what to do at each stage with a note saying "these may not all come in at the same time, and we may need to fiddle with it"

All well and good, but from an Audax UK point of view, an approach like that is hugely problematic.  Events have to be entered/paid in advance, then ridden.  Stepping backwards gets people involved in a whole lot of refund pain.  Fiddling round the edges ofa plan involves volunteer effort that simply may not be forthcoming.

True. It may be something that organisers can assess* for themselves - we did survive cancelling everything once (and I have every sympathy for those lumbered with the extra work).

But that's the 2nd phase - I don't think it affects restarting perms?


*What countries have stepped backwards in the process to date? I'd say it's a large hazard, but with low probability, and would be mitigated by scheduling further out, for example. Actually, events may become cheaper to run with COVID measures in place such as no indoor venue hire, which would help mitigate risk. Organisers would benefit from sharing ideas on this, and riders could  feedback on what measures would be more/less attractive to them.

[FifeingEejit]

The Scottish one (and NI and Welsh ones) have guidance on the situation for implementation and a note saying "we may have to step backwards" along with plans of what to do at each stage with a note saying "these may not all come in at the same time, and we may need to fiddle with it"

All well and good, but from an Audax UK point of view, an approach like that is hugely problematic.  Events have to be entered/paid in advance, then ridden.  Stepping backwards gets people involved in a whole lot of refund pain.  Fiddling round the edges ofa plan involves volunteer effort that simply may not be forthcoming.

Aye, planning for anything else much in advance off that is pretty much hopeless, and now it appears that in England you could find a load of tape and bollards across the road saying "COVID ZONE KEEP OUT".  It seems that even when we get to a state where it's theoretically possible to run events, the chance of them having to be cancelled at short notice is high.

Scottish Cycling  have put out an update to cover the Phase 1 state.
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/scotland/article/20200313-Scottish-Cycling-Coronavirus-COVID19-Guidance-0

Can't really see a socially distanced chain gang working too well..

There previous stance of no events until 1st August at earliest remains.

[Bianchi Boy]

There previous stance of no events until 1st August at earliest remains.

and Audax LEJOG has not been cancelled that finises in 31st July