COVID19 and Audax UK

[citoyen]

The fact that some are concerned about what the PM will advise as acceptable exercise (asking for trouble) suggests we all in reality believe that a 200 km ride is probably not within the intentions of a lockdown.

No, the fear is that they will make up an arbitrary low limit that reflects a lack of appreciation of what is actually quite normal for many people.

I will probably ride 1-2 hours a day staying reasonably local (certainly within the county) like I did in Lockdown 1.0, irrespective of what Gove or other will say.

So if the guidance ends up being something like 'no more than 10 miles' (based on the perfectly rational belief that no sane person would ever cycle any further than that), would you be happy to break that rule?

[Greenbank]

a) A Gove like figure plucking a number like "an hour a day" based on his vast years of experience of being an utter twat

There was no legal basis to that, and I basically ignored it.

Yes, there was no legal basis for that, and it should have been quite rightly ignored.

But the possibility I was suggesting was that something similar to that would be stated and published properly, even possibly put into legislation.

[Geriatricdolan]

So if the guidance ends up being something like 'no more than 10 miles' (based on the perfectly rational belief that no sane person would ever cycle any further than that), would you be happy to break that rule?

Yes, I would... but I wouldn't want to be part of an organisation that doesn't play by the rules... it might be difficult to understand, but it's actually quite an important difference.

[Davef]

The fact that some are concerned about what the PM will advise as acceptable exercise (asking for trouble) suggests we all in reality believe that a 200 km ride is probably not within the intentions of a lockdown.

That said, clarity is a good thing, then you can make up your mind whether you as an individual want to stick to the guidelines or not.
I will probably ride 1-2 hours a day staying reasonably local (certainly within the county) like I did in Lockdown 1.0, irrespective of what Gove or other will say.

AUK of course will have to stick to the guidelines... if the guidance is go for as long as you want and how far as you like, then I see no reason not to continue with the validations... it probably won't happen though.

At the start of the last lockdown exercise was to be reasonable and limited to once per day. Later, whilst lockdown still continued, it was changed specifically to be unlimited and as often as you wish,  but not overnight.  I think this was around the time the legislation changed from saying what you could do to what you couldn’t. I too would like clarification even if it does not meet my expectations of unlimited duration or frequency this time around. I disagree however the guidelines are for individuals to choose to follow or not. They are much like the Highway Code and are illustrating how the legislation should objectively be understood.

[Lightning Phil]

At the start of the last lockdown exercise was to be reasonable and limited to once per day.

# Guidance was once a day, but nothing in the legislation, there was no guidance on duration just idle opinion from Gove when asked.

Later, whilst lockdown still continued, it was changed specifically to be unlimited and as often as you wish,  but not overnight.

# There was nothing in guidance or legislation about the time of day you could exercise. You just weren’t allowed to spend a night away in accommodation other than your primary residence.

[Davef]

At the start of the last lockdown exercise was to be reasonable and limited to once per day.

# Guidance was once a day, but nothing in the legislation, there was no guidance on duration just idle opinion from Gove when asked.

Later, whilst lockdown still continued, it was changed specifically to be unlimited and as often as you wish,  but not overnight.

# There was nothing in guidance or legislation about the time of day you could exercise. You just weren’t allowed to spend a night away in accommodation other than your primary residence.

I was not suggesting there was anything mentioning the time of day it was indeed the overnight stay I was referring to that effective curtailed the unlimited nature of the exercise during 5e second half of lockdown. The original legislation was phrased around reasonable excuse. Reasonable excuse in law means objectively reasonable, ie what a “normal” person would consider reasonable. This is similar to the phrasing of the law with respect to say careless driving. Nowhere in statute does it say overtaking on the inside is careless. I believe a 200km audax would not be considered reasonable exercise, however it would be ok under unlimited exercise. We will see in the next few days.

[citoyen]

Yes, I would... but I wouldn't want to be part of an organisation that doesn't play by the rules... it might be difficult to understand, but it's actually quite an important difference.

No, I think that’s perfectly reasonable - and not that difficult to understand, even for me.

As things stand, it’s by no means clear that AUK would be complicit in (or encouraging) breaking any rules by continuing to validate rides that involve cycling outside your local area.

Will be interesting to see what happens if we do ever get clarification.

[GdS]

If you have a terminal mechanical on a ride it doesn't make a lot of difference whether you are 20 50 or 100k from home you are going to have to use public or private transport to get home. The same probably holds if have an accident.

I wouldn't hold my breath on getting a more detailed definition of unlimited exercise from HMG before 2.12.20

[FifeingEejit]

If you have a terminal mechanical on a ride it doesn't make a lot of difference whether you are 20 50 or 100k from home you are going to have to use public or private transport to get home

I wouldn't hold my breath on getting a more detailed definition of unlimited exercise from HMG before 2.12.20

Think the idea is that of you're about 5 miles you may walk it or have someone you live with come out and get you, the further away you are the more need to involve other households.



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[Davef]

If you have a terminal mechanical on a ride it doesn't make a lot of difference whether you are 20 50 or 100k from home you are going to have to use public or private transport to get home. The same probably holds if have an accident.

I wouldn't hold my breath on getting a more detailed definition of unlimited exercise from HMG before 2.12.20

I agree re the walking home, any more than a couple of miles and I would be phoning the recovery bubble. However, does it say “unlimited” this time around ? I thought I had seen it can’t see that anywhere written anymore, but I may have overlooked it. I thought the clarification wanted is whether it is unlimited and only if not, what are the limits.

[grams]

The draft legislation is here and places no restrictions on duration or frequency of exercise.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1200/pdfs/uksi_20201200_en.pdf

Restrictions on "travel", or any requirement to stay local, don't seem to have made it into the legislation.

(which isn't to say the matching guidance on those topics can be ignored)

[Lightning Phil]

At the start of the last lockdown exercise was to be reasonable and limited to once per day.

# Guidance was once a day, but nothing in the legislation, there was no guidance on duration just idle opinion from Gove when asked.

Later, whilst lockdown still continued, it was changed specifically to be unlimited and as often as you wish,  but not overnight.

# There was nothing in guidance or legislation about the time of day you could exercise. You just weren’t allowed to spend a night away in accommodation other than your primary residence.

I was not suggesting there was anything mentioning the time of day it was indeed the overnight stay I was referring to that effective curtailed the unlimited nature of the exercise during 5e second half of lockdown. The original legislation was phrased around reasonable excuse. Reasonable excuse in law means objectively reasonable, ie what a “normal” person would consider reasonable. This is similar to the phrasing of the law with respect to say careless driving. Nowhere in statute does it say overtaking on the inside is careless. I believe a 200km audax would not be considered reasonable exercise, however it would be ok under unlimited exercise. We will see in the next few days.

A reasonable excuse to be outside the home was exercise. It makes no reference to reasonable exercise or tries to define it as that’d be futile.  If you were self evidently out exercising the police had no interest, and with good reason.

Just as it didn’t define what a reasonable shop might be.  Sorry maam 140 toilet rolls is not reasonable, you are under arrest.

[Cudzoziemiec]

The fact that some are concerned about what the PM will advise as acceptable exercise (asking for trouble) suggests we all in reality believe that a 200 km ride is probably not within the intentions of a lockdown.

No, the fear is that they will make up an arbitrary low limit that reflects a lack of appreciation of what is actually quite normal for many people.

I will probably ride 1-2 hours a day staying reasonably local (certainly within the county) like I did in Lockdown 1.0, irrespective of what Gove or other will say.

So if the guidance ends up being something like 'no more than 10 miles' (based on the perfectly rational belief that no sane person would ever cycle any further than that), would you be happy to break that rule?

Many people? I bet it's few enough that they gave it no thought whatsoever when drawing up the regulations.

[Greenbank]

Well Whitty and Valance were very positive about exercise during this pandemic on a select committee this afternoon but, as they had to point out numerous times, they don't create policy, they just inform those who go on to create policy.

If everyone did enough exercise then the pressure on the NHS would be quite significantly less, although anyone doing Audax is almost certainly doing more than enough exercise not to be lumped in the 'unhealthy' bucket so they're not really going to be the target audience for "more exercise".

[simonp]

So I shall be continuing to bag tiles. It will probably be much more enjoyable with quiet roads. No validated rides for me and I’ll most likely limit distance to around 100km.

[mattc]

This thread is coming across as far too English-centric.

 When other home countries were under lockdowns there were not calls to suspend validations.

L1 and L2 areas of Scotland have no restrictions in place which would prohibit randonneuring and I think Audax should be encouraged in areas where it is safe to do so.

Speaking as an AUK in central* England, I completely support this.

*fairly central...

[mattc]

OK, pretend I said "most people".

If every decision had to have unanimous support then no decisions would ever get made.

Ok, amendment accepted.

However, you seem to be saying that suspension was accepted by:
- People who tend to keep their head down and accept decisions by volunteers/organisers/elected officials, and -
- a bunch of people who didn't want to do a thing (that was harmless and probably entirely legal), and wanted to stop others doing it.

Is that a fair summary?

[Greenbank]

However, you seem to be saying that suspension was accepted by:
- People who tend to keep their head down and accept decisions by volunteers/organisers/elected officials, and -
- a bunch of people who didn't want to do a thing (that was harmless and probably entirely legal), and wanted to stop others doing it.

Is that a fair summary?

Nope.

I don't know the thinking of every person (or any but myself really) but it seemed to be fairly well accepted on here and on the AUK forum.

[Ben T]

Well Whitty and Valance were very positive about exercise during this pandemic on a select committee this afternoon but, as they had to point out numerous times, they don't create policy, they just inform those who go on to create policy.

Yeah right. What they create is the conditions for their own career win-win scenario: all they have to do is beat their own outrageously doom laden model and they’re made.
The “we’re just academic scientists” is bullshit, these are highly politically savvy people.

[postie]

British cycling due to give a update today as to what is permitted and as auk is following there lead i guess. We all could have a answer by tonight if validation will be allowed for the next 4 weeks.

Personally i dont care bagged my 200km for November on sunday

[Wycombewheeler]

However, you seem to be saying that suspension was accepted by:
- People who tend to keep their head down and accept decisions by volunteers/organisers/elected officials, and -
- a bunch of people who didn't want to do a thing (that was harmless and probably entirely legal), and wanted to stop others doing it.

Is that a fair summary?

Nope.

I don't know the thinking of every person (or any but myself really) but it seemed to be fairly well accepted on here and on the AUK forum.

I think there was an acceptance that the people responsible had made the decision and resignation to that  im not convinced most people agreed with the decision,  it was much more evenly split than that.

[Geriatricdolan]

CTT have just sent an email to suspend all events in England during the lockdown

[JonBuoy]

British Cycling updated the guidance on their website earlier today:

Under the new restrictions cycling and being active is still strongly encouraged, but there are a number of rules which we must all follow:
<snip>
There are no restrictions on how far or how often you can ride, however we recommend that you stay within your ability level and prepare accordingly, especially if you are riding alone.

[Karla]

CTT have just sent an email to suspend all events in England during the lockdown

CTT don't do perms thobut

[Lightning Phil]

I reckon England will go along the same current audax validation rules of Scotland as posted by Graeme in the audax uk forum the other day. That would make the most sense.