COVID19 and Audax UK

[bairn again]

I have a cal. event up here in Scotland on Saturday and getting queries from Riders in England if they can ride.

 I'd guess not as the legislation encourages exercise to be local and non-essential travel from England to Scotland is discouraged. But the AUK guidance is not specifically clear on this.

When I started out as an organiser I quickly learned that having and firmly applying an “ entries close” of 7-10 days pre event was very much my friend.  Beware the night afore chancer. 

[Peter]

The English guidance does say that for exercise, "this should be done locally wherever possible, but you can travel to do so if necessary". I think the intention is, if you were a keen kayaker, driving to the nearest lake would probably be ok. Therefore, if you're a keen audaxer, ...

You'd be totally taking the piss though.

Yes it gives travelling a short distance to find open ground to exercise on as an example.

Taking the piss is the operative phrase here.  I'm sure the intention is to allow people to take enough exercise to keep them healthy - not to give them leeway to travel in order to indulge their "need" to undertake their "favourite" exercise.  What if your favourite exercise is surfing, or rock-climbing?

[Lightning Phil]

Off topic, but then you would travel to a crag to go climbing.

[mattc]

I've had an ECE 200+100 entry for tomorrow in Scotland;

The new AUK advice only mentions the 200k limit for England is 300k OK in Scotland?

My gut feeling is that riding to Scotland to do a ride ("exercise") is within the spirit of the law, but
Driving to Scotland for an Audax is narrowly outside.

Just IMO! I don't make the rules/law.

[Peter]

Off topic, but then you would travel to a crag to go climbing.

And (in my opinion, admittedly) you'd be wrong to do so.

[Lightning Phil]

Off topic, but then you would travel to a crag to go climbing.

And (in my opinion, admittedly) you'd be wrong to do so.

But neither against law nor guidance. So like you say, just your opinion and what you’d do.

[Peter]

But surely against the spirit of the law, which shouldn't need to have to dot every i and cross every t in an intelligent society - which obviously we haven't got.  People on here and elsewhere are very quick (rightly so) to be disgusted at the antics of Nick "Mr Loophole" Whatshisname, as he nitpicks yet another irresponsible footballer out of punishment for a dangerous driving offence and (again, in my opinion) they are doing a version of the same thing if they desperately look for ways to say that the current regulations allow their obsessions, when the regulations weren't made with obsessive people in mind.

But I do accept that my being right needn't preclude others being wrong!

[Lightning Phil]

Spirit of law is to reduce the R number below 1, and therefore pressure on NHS from Covid cases climbing exponentially, and overwhelming capacity. So against neither of those.

It bears no comparison with dangerous drivers getting off.

[grams]

This set of lockdown rules has a much more liberal attitude to outdoor activities than the original. Travelling to a crag would be absolutely acceptable and not exploiting a loophole, as long as you stuck to the other principles (avoiding public transport and people outside your bubble).

[simonp]

The roads around here weren't exactly quiet today. I'm not convinced that chock full car parks at beauty spots is compatible with R<1.

[Hot Flatus]

The roads around here weren't exactly quiet today. I'm not convinced that chock full car parks at beauty spots is compatible with R<1.

If it family bubbles then I cant see an issue. The big spreader is members of different families/households meeting up indoors.

I rode round (much) of the Cotswolds todsy. Huge numbers out and about.

[Davef]

It is not just about exercise and physical health. You are allowed outdoors (travelling if necessary) for recreation as well as exercise. If you genuinely believe what you’re doing is necessary for your physical and mental well-being and it is within the guidelines then you should do it without feeling guilty. If however you are thinking “what can I get away with” then almost certainly you should not being doing it. Travelling to Scotland to a gathering that would be illegal in England seems well beyond “reasonable excuse”.

[GdS]

I've had an ECE 200+100 entry for tomorrow in Scotland;

The new AUK advice only mentions the 200k limit for England is 300k OK in Scotland?

My gut feeling is that riding to Scotland to do a ride ("exercise") is within the spirit of the law, but
Driving to Scotland for an Audax is narrowly outside.

Just IMO! I don't make the rules/law.

 

his home and ECE is entirely within Scotland and all within their tier 2; I was asking about the total distance because AIUI it's max 200 in England

[cygnet]

The roads around here weren't exactly quiet today. I'm not convinced that chock full car parks at beauty spots is compatible with R<1.

OT
Motor traffic levels seemed pretty normal this afternoon in SE London/Kent. So I guess there are far more essential jobs/trips being carried out now than there were in April.

[FifeingEejit]

There is no mention of a distance limit for Scotland in the latest update. (4th Nov)

Must admit I'd misread what you wrote forgetting you run the eces!



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[mattc]

The roads around here weren't exactly quiet today. I'm not convinced that chock full car parks at beauty spots is compatible with R<1.

AUK really needs to stop events starting at beauty spots.:-(

[GdS]

There is no mention of a distance limit for Scotland in the latest update. (4th Nov)
Must admit I'd misread what you wrote forgetting you run the eces!

OK thanks  I'll validate when I get the track 

[Geriatricdolan]

AUK really needs to stop events starting at beauty spots.:-(

You mean like the dodgy part of Chepstow?

[Hot Flatus]

Ah, but when matt arrives it turns into a place of beauty

[quixoticgeek]

The English guidance does say that for exercise, "this should be done locally wherever possible, but you can travel to do so if necessary". I think the intention is, if you were a keen kayaker, driving to the nearest lake would probably be ok. Therefore, if you're a keen audaxer, ...

You'd be totally taking the piss though.

I thought it was more if you live in the centre of a city, then driving to the edge of the city to walk in the woods and green space is ok. Driving from London to the Peak district "for exercise" would be taking the piss, but driving to Epping Forest would be fine.

J

[Ben T]

But surely against the spirit of the law, which shouldn't need to have to dot every i and cross every t in an intelligent society - which obviously we haven't got. 

But we haven't got intelligent government. So you can't simply just go on what's "intelligent", or the spirit of the law, because that might involve breaking the law. That's why a lot of people are butting right up against the letter of the law.
Britain treats citizens like children which goes a long way to explain why they behave like them.
So yes they DO have to cross every i and dot every t please if they're going to make rules that they expect people who don't trust them to comply with.
Ministers don't understand the rules themselves  ( my own MP who hasn't covered himself in glory ) https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-top-cabinet-ministers-sow-confusion-over-englands-lockdown-rules-12122634

[mattc]

The roads around here weren't exactly quiet today. I'm not convinced that chock full car parks at beauty spots is compatible with R<1.

AUK really needs to stop events starting at beauty spots.:-(

You mean like the dodgy part of Chepstow?

I don't know - you and Simon can work that one out between you.

[mattc]

Ah, but when matt arrives it turns into a place of beauty

 

[GdS]

There is no mention of a distance limit for Scotland in the latest update. (4th Nov)

Must admit I'd misread what you wrote forgetting you run the eces!

Thanks; calendars and rides up to 600km are still allowed so a 300 ECE in Scotland is perfectly OK 

[Peter]

But surely against the spirit of the law, which shouldn't need to have to dot every i and cross every t in an intelligent society - which obviously we haven't got. 

But we haven't got intelligent government. So you can't simply just go on what's "intelligent", or the spirit of the law, because that might involve breaking the law. That's why a lot of people are butting right up against the letter of the law.
Britain treats citizens like children which goes a long way to explain why they behave like them.
So yes they DO have to cross every i and dot every t please if they're going to make rules that they expect people who don't trust them to comply with.
Ministers don't understand the rules themselves  ( my own MP who hasn't covered himself in glory ) https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-top-cabinet-ministers-sow-confusion-over-englands-lockdown-rules-12122634

Ben, alas, you're probably right!