Author Topic: COVID19 and Audax UK  (Read 113896 times)

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #975 on: 06 January, 2021, 11:41:37 am »
You'd think that by now we should all know what is meant by our 'local area'  ::-)  but I don't - but I'd assume that it doesn't extend more than 10km from my home, could be a lot less. 
10km allows you a circular ride of 31km, you'd need 7 of those (all different) to make  a 200.  You'd probably get by with 6 circuits of imperfect shape.

10k radius is 63k circumference.

To stay within 10k of home your (hypothetical) multiple loops from home would be 10k diameter, not radius.

But in any case it's now clear that the distance has to be a lot less than that.  And recreational cycling (which I take audax to be) is not permitted. Nor are multiple outings from home on one day.

I have a selection of local walks which I use - the shortest of them crosses a county boundary.  Some of the longer ones take me more than 5k from home and/or keep me out for more than 2 hours.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #976 on: 06 January, 2021, 11:43:50 am »
You'd think that by now we should all know what is meant by our 'local area'  ::-)  but I don't - but I'd assume that it doesn't extend more than 10km from my home, could be a lot less. 
10km allows you a circular ride of 31km, you'd need 7 of those (all different) to make  a 200.  You'd probably get by with 6 circuits of imperfect shape.

10k radius is 63k circumference.

To stay within 10k of home your (hypothetical) multiple loops from home would be 10k diameter, not radius.

Do you want to check that?



10km diameter would mean only straying as far as 5km from home.

(I think you may be thinking a 10km diameter loop starting from home, which is not what anyone else here is describing. Everyone else is describing loops of diameter X centred on their home.)
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #977 on: 06 January, 2021, 11:55:43 am »
10km diameter would mean only straying as far as 5km from home.

Which (IMO of course) is a reasonable interpretation of 'Stay local - within your village, town, or area of your city'.

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #978 on: 06 January, 2021, 02:32:59 pm »
Interesting to see the calculations here. Those of us who commute by bike are at quite an advantage. I do split shifts so 2 commutes plus some exercise plus a trip to the food shop and I should be fit enough for when we can ride events again. Other options include taking on bike delivery work, or mixing in a bit of running (please don't all lynch me at once!)

simonp

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #979 on: 06 January, 2021, 05:13:41 pm »
You'd think that by now we should all know what is meant by our 'local area'  ::-)  but I don't - but I'd assume that it doesn't extend more than 10km from my home, could be a lot less. 
10km allows you a circular ride of 31km, you'd need 7 of those (all different) to make  a 200.  You'd probably get by with 6 circuits of imperfect shape.

10k radius is 63k circumference.

To stay within 10k of home your (hypothetical) multiple loops from home would be 10k diameter, not radius.

Do you want to check that?



10km diameter would mean only straying as far as 5km from home.

(I think you may be thinking a 10km diameter loop starting from home, which is not what anyone else here is describing. Everyone else is describing loops of diameter X centred on their home.)

If you are doing a figure 8 route starting from home, then your route is on the circumference of each loop. I think this is what Francis is getting at.

simonp

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #980 on: 06 January, 2021, 05:14:19 pm »

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #981 on: 06 January, 2021, 06:08:08 pm »
You'd think that by now we should all know what is meant by our 'local area'  ::-)  but I don't - but I'd assume that it doesn't extend more than 10km from my home, could be a lot less. 
10km allows you a circular ride of 31km, you'd need 7 of those (all different) to make  a 200.  You'd probably get by with 6 circuits of imperfect shape.

10k radius is 63k circumference.

To stay within 10k of home your (hypothetical) multiple loops from home would be 10k diameter, not radius.

Do you want to check that?



10km diameter would mean only straying as far as 5km from home.

(I think you may be thinking a 10km diameter loop starting from home, which is not what anyone else here is describing. Everyone else is describing loops of diameter X centred on their home.)

If you are doing a figure 8 route starting from home, then your route is on the circumference of each loop. I think this is what Francis is getting at.

Yes. Isn't that exactly what I said at the end of my post?

To be clear...

Francis is thinking of a circular ride starting from home. Everyone else is thinking of a circular ride centred on their home with an initial trip out to the circle and another trip back home at the end.

With a circular ride starting from home there's a whole chunk of area that's 10km from home than you're not using.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #982 on: 06 January, 2021, 07:02:20 pm »
To make it painfully clear, here's the original quote:-

You'd think that by now we should all know what is meant by our 'local area'  ::-)  but I don't - but I'd assume that it doesn't extend more than 10km from my home, could be a lot less. 
10km allows you a circular ride of 31km, you'd need 7 of those (all different) to make  a 200.  You'd probably get by with 6 circuits of imperfect shape.

"10km allows you a circular ride of 31km".

That's correct if the question is "What is the largest circle shaped ride (just a circle shaped ride) that can be made without venturing more than 10km away from home?"

But that puts an odd requirement on that you're not allowed to ride anything other than the circle shape itself, which is nigh on impossible anyway given road layouts.

If the question is "What is the largest circle that can be made without venturing more than 10km away from home?" then the answer is:-

"10km allows you a circular ride of 62km (plus 20km out/back to give 82km)".

Anyway...
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

simonp

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #983 on: 06 January, 2021, 07:14:24 pm »
To make it painfully clear, here's the original quote:-

You'd think that by now we should all know what is meant by our 'local area'  ::-)  but I don't - but I'd assume that it doesn't extend more than 10km from my home, could be a lot less. 
10km allows you a circular ride of 31km, you'd need 7 of those (all different) to make  a 200.  You'd probably get by with 6 circuits of imperfect shape.

"10km allows you a circular ride of 31km".

That's correct if the question is "What is the largest circle shaped ride (just a circle shaped ride) that can be made without venturing more than 10km away from home?"

But that puts an odd requirement on that you're not allowed to ride anything other than the circle shape itself, which is nigh on impossible anyway given road layouts.

If the question is "What is the largest circle that can be made without venturing more than 10km away from home?" then the answer is:-

"10km allows you a circular ride of 62km (plus 20km out/back to give 82km)".

Anyway...

I was thinking in the context of Audax rules that you can't use a circular route repeatedly e.g. to make up 200km by repetition. You can reverse a loop, I believe. So to avoid repeating loops you'd need multiple largely non-overlapping loops. For instance a figure 8 or a cloverleaf. Like the events from the 'uts near Ugley.

I reckon I could come up with a 200km route that fits within a 10 mile radius of here without trying too hard, but would I ride it even in normal times? Doubtful.



Pedal Castro

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    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #984 on: 06 January, 2021, 07:16:00 pm »
I found this tool:

https://www.mapdevelopers.com/draw-circle-tool.php

I'd forgotten about this. Just used it to check my December 200 route which I had to tweak so as not to go into Cambs. It is all within 10 miles.  ;D

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #985 on: 06 January, 2021, 07:17:06 pm »
This could make a FASCINATING Arrivée article!
(With a bit of work)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Davef

COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #986 on: 06 January, 2021, 07:22:54 pm »
If you are orbiting your home at 5km radius you will be clearly be 5km from home on average as the crow flies (if you ignore ascending to orbit)

If you are on a 10km diameter ride starting on the circumference your max distance from home is 10km

This is true if it is a figure of eight too, your maximum distance is 10km.

Average distance is more complex for the figure of 8  made up of two circles travelling at constant speed your average distance from home is 4 miles.

simonp

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #987 on: 06 January, 2021, 07:34:10 pm »
I found this tool:

https://www.mapdevelopers.com/draw-circle-tool.php

I'd forgotten about this. Just used it to check my December 200 route which I had to tweak so as not to go into Cambs. It is all within 10 miles.  ;D

Only took me 5 minutes to draw something on Strava, 5 loops heading off at different compass points. Unfortunately it crosses the Mendips 3 times.  :facepalm:

I'm hoping to make tonight's indoor workout bearable by watching the League Cup semi final.

There is another tool which does the "how far can I get in...?" problem.

https://app.traveltime.com/search/0_lng=-2.83396&0_tt=45&0_mode=cycling_ferry&0_title=New%20Inn%2C%20Compton%20Bishop%2C%20England%2C%20United%20Kingdom&0_lat=51.29026


Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #988 on: 06 January, 2021, 08:15:30 pm »
I have an audax-compliant 200k planned that doesn't stray more than 10k from my house (as the auk flies).  It looks quite a nice route  :P

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #989 on: 06 January, 2021, 08:16:38 pm »
I was thinking in the context of Audax rules that you can't use a circular route repeatedly e.g. to make up 200km by repetition. You can reverse a loop, I believe. So to avoid repeating loops you'd need multiple largely non-overlapping loops. For instance a figure 8 or a cloverleaf. Like the events from the 'uts near Ugley.

Indeed, I think the "rule" is something along the lines of:

"You should not use the same stretch of road in the same direction unnecessarily."

So the 'Uts rides don't have much of a choice as there are only 3 main routes away from the 'Uts, but they diverge as soon as they get a chance. (And none of them have ever used that loop round through Little Henham I don't think, at least looking at Veloviewer I've never ridden that bit, maybe I'll divert round there next time I'm up there.)

I reckon I could come up with a 200km route that fits within a 10 mile radius of here without trying too hard, but would I ride it even in normal times? Doubtful.

With DIYxGPS it makes it easier for some veloviewer tile bagging rides. Not quite within 10 miles but some of my rides don't have me going a huge distance away (especially if I get a train to/from a different starting point). Not sure I'd do a 200km VV tilebagging ride though, the constant direction changes and lack of real progress would sap away the motivation quite quickly.

There's something I dimly remember related to fractal geometry about the average "straight line routes" comparing on road distance (shortest route obviously) to as-the-crow-flies distance. Different countries (and different areas of individual countries) have different ratios. The worst case for a US grid style street system is sqrt(2) and best case is 1 but the average (for randomly chosen routes) is something like 1.2.

I think rural UK is also something like 1.2 as an average for random chosen routes too. Cities are often closer to 1 (assuming you don't have things like rivers without many crossings to contend with.)

Nicely planned tile bagging rides often pick off 2 tiles at a time going N/S or E/W without much deviation, and edge tiles don't cost a huge amount extra as you only need to sneak into the tile before backing out and going elsewhere, etc.

200km within 10km or so of me should be possible, probably even less, but that's because I'm in suburbia and there are a huge number of residential roads near me. If I knew how to obtain, parse and process the OSM data I'd have a go at writing something to find a really short route that avoids using the same stretch of road twice in the same direction. It just essentially boils down to a form of the Traveling Salesman Problem over a directed graph.

I did think about trying to write something similar to come up with semi-optimal VV tile bagging routes, but then I like creating those routes myself (often more than I actually like riding them). And there's no VV tilebagging right now given the current lockdown restrictions as my nearest unclaimed tile is definitely not "local" to me.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

GdS

  • I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #990 on: 06 January, 2021, 09:54:32 pm »
Germany have imposed a 15km limit on non essential travel in high risk areas

calculators out everyone!

cygnet

  • I'm part of the association
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #991 on: 06 January, 2021, 10:52:08 pm »
Aside from the AUK non-validations, this does have the potential to expand upon the Island Audax thread.

(For Kentish folks I got the Isle of Sheppey up to 184km but it's in a large part a tour of the housing estates)
I Said, I've Got A Big Stick

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #992 on: 06 January, 2021, 11:28:40 pm »
If I knew how to obtain, parse and process the OSM data I'd have a go at writing something to find a really short route that avoids using the same stretch of road twice in the same direction. It just essentially boils down to a form of the Traveling Salesman Problem over a directed graph.

I now can't stop thinking about doing exactly this. I don't have time (both with a busy work schedule, WFH distractions and home schooling) but it's all my brain seems to want to think about right now.

Argh.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #993 on: 06 January, 2021, 11:49:11 pm »
The stupid thing is that 'no repeated roads' is a completely arbitrary AUK(/RM) rule that benefits nobody.  Especially in current circumstances.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #994 on: 07 January, 2021, 06:46:58 am »
Sorry to spoil the discussion but, in the old Tier 4 guidance - which has now obviously been superseded but still exists as a precedent - local area was defined as being county (of the modern adminstrative region which broadly corresponds to it).

Geriatricdolan

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #995 on: 07 January, 2021, 07:52:50 am »
This could make a FASCINATING Arrivée article!
(With a bit of work)

Indeed, although it would probably come out too late to be of use

Davef

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #996 on: 07 January, 2021, 08:11:39 am »
If I knew how to obtain, parse and process the OSM data I'd have a go at writing something to find a really short route that avoids using the same stretch of road twice in the same direction. It just essentially boils down to a form of the Traveling Salesman Problem over a directed graph.

I now can't stop thinking about doing exactly this. I don't have time (both with a busy work schedule, WFH distractions and home schooling) but it's all my brain seems to want to think about right now.

Argh.
I have experimented with this in the past. Getting the data if it is for a small area you can ask for it by api and get it as xml which is very easy. For more serious usage their binary format would be better but is more work. It has an interesting variable bit length representation for numbers - you can get for example 13 or 17 bit ones streamed. The main problem then with osm data is there is too much detail. The biggest part is to filter it down to some sort of navigation network by throwing away 99.99% . That part which sounds like a bit of housekeeping is the hardest bit.


simonp

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #998 on: 07 January, 2021, 10:21:21 am »
Conditions where I have to go pour hot water onto the layer of ice on the chickens’ water are not riding conditions. Not that I’m going anywhere anyway. Only left the house this year so far to collect a prescription.

Chris S

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #999 on: 07 January, 2021, 10:46:04 am »
Conditions where I have to go pour hot water onto the layer of ice on the chickens’ water are not riding conditions. Not that I’m going anywhere anyway. Only left the house this year so far to collect a prescription.

You can get them delivered too - then you won't need to go out at all. Better still, rig up a hose to from the hot tap to the chicken run, and you won't even need to go outside at all!  ;D

We've had a couple of days when we tried to go outside - but after a lot of freezing rain the in past week, it's hard enough to even stand up out there.